Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Worldgorger Dragon was used for infinite mana combos. Animate dead let's a loop for infinite mana. They are showing Red some love.
In case you don't know how it works, cause someone is bond to ask.
For Infinite Mana, (Add other permanents with Enter the Battlefield effects and it gets stupid)
1) Animate dead target Worldgorger Dragon
2) Worldgorger Dragon comes into play, triggers, RFGs Everything.
3) Animate dead triggers, Kills Worldgorger Dragon
4) Worldgorger Dragon leaves play triggers, everything comes back untapped. Animate dead comes back and targets Worldgorger Dragon 5) Tap all your lands in response to Worldgorger Dragon comes into play trigger. Repeat 2-5 as many times as you want.
6) To end the loop, just target a different creature in your graveyard with Animate dead.
Worldgorger Dragon was used for infinite mana combos. Animate dead let's a loop for infinite mana. They are showing Red some love.
In case you don't know how it works, cause someone is bond to ask.
For Infinite Mana, (Add other permanents with Enter the Battlefield effects and it gets stupid)
1) Animate dead target Worldgorger Dragon
2) Worldgorger Dragon comes into play, triggers, RFGs Everything.
3) Animate dead triggers, Kills Worldgorger Dragon
4) Worldgorger Dragon leaves play triggers, everything comes back untapped. Animate dead comes back and targets Worldgorger Dragon 5) Tap all your lands in response to Worldgorger Dragon comes into play trigger. Repeat 2-5 as many times as you want.
6) To end the loop, just target a different creature in your graveyard with Animate dead.
Thanks for the very detailed description of the combo. I appreciate it.
I'm fine with this unbanning. The "unfair" use of the dragon is so narrow that anyone who really wants to abuse infinites has much better options anyway. This card is a good example of one that can be easily moderated socially too.
I dunno. Worldgorger is quite a scary card, considering the combo can be assembled so quickly. Turn 1 Entomb, Turn 2 Animate dead, Comet Storm, death to all opponents. Of course this is more tricky in a highlander format, but still scary.
On the other hand, there are already plenty of infinite combos in the format. Just yesterday I killed someone with a very large number of squirrel tokens because I had Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest.
Opening hand with 3 specific cards happen all the time in EDH.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
This is good, it may be only a matter of time until kokusho is unbanned as well. It looks like the RC wants to shrink the list and is willing to do it one card at a time. I'm all for smaller banlists, worldgorger dragon was such a narrow combo piece anyway.
I am glad he is off the list and yet dread to see him in action. I hate degenerately fast combos to no end but I am glad the list is getting smaller. I sort of wish they would just ban the biggest abusers of comboing out though. Loosing the game in the first 6 turns to combo is super super lame.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I'm glad to see him off the list, but it's just ludicrous that there are so many weaker combo pieces still banned (Kokusho, Staff of Domination, LED, and Painter's Servant for example). I never expected to see this guy get unbanned while Kokusho is still locked up.
I'm a little surprised to see this unbanning. I haven't seen any discussion on him, so it seems random. Not that I'm complaining, I love me some Gorger, just seems out of the blue (red?).
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
I would have loved to see Kokusho back... this seems far more icky...
I've been thinking about Kokusho more and I actually realized I don't care. I don't have a single deck that would legitimately want to play him, and in the several dozen EDH decks I've played against, it was only a good inclusion for ONE of them: a Balthor the Defiled deck.
A 5 point Exsanguinate is really just not that good in EDH. Gaining 20 life doesn't really keep you alive. That's because deaths in EDH are most commonly from one of three things:
* 21 points of general damage (eg. Large Kresh)
* Some infinite combo that kills everyone (eg. Infinite mana + Oona)
* A play that gives someone an incredible board position (eg. Genesis wave for 15 or Tooth and Nail for Kozilek and Ulamog)
In none of these situations does gaining 20 life matter, and neither does making your opponents lose 5 life. Life is obviously worthless in the first two cases. In the third case, you're likely getting attacked for on the order of 40 to 100 damage, or possibly taking annihilator: 8. Even using recurring and reusing Kokusho 3 times won't make a bit of difference.
The ONLY time Kokusho helps is in situations where people are trying to win the game by swinging at people for between 5 and 8 damage a turn. That's pretty rare, but even when people try it, the game pacing is slow enough that politics will cause everyone to focus their 5 to 8 damage on you for several turns, so politics will negate even that advantage.
Practically speaking, banning Kokusho is a lot like banning Brown Ouphe. Sure there might be one deck that can use it, but no one really cares, and there's a lot of replacement effects that are at a "similar" power level (read: significantly stronger).
No one would care if they banned Beast Walkers and Cinder Wall. Why do we care about Kokusho again?
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
It's just ludicrous that there are so many weaker combo pieces still banned (Kokusho, Staff of Domination, LED, and Painter's Servant for example). I never expected to see this guy get unbanned while Kokusho is still locked up.
Staff of Domination? Are you kidding me? Staff of domination not only enables several infinite mana combos it gives you something to do with that mana which help win the game. Not only that but if you run it out without protection, you risk losing your entire board and not to mention you need a way to kill the table at instant speed or another creature in the graveyard or else you draw the game. I'd say he's one of the least degenerate infinite mana combos and is probably fine for EDH
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Practically speaking, banning Kokusho is a lot like banning Brown Ouphe. Sure there might be one deck that can use it, but no one really cares, and there's a lot of replacement effects that are at a "similar" power level (read: significantly stronger).
No one would care if they banned Beast Walkers and Cinder Wall. Why do we care about Kokusho again?
Because dragons are awesome? Also, keeping an average card banned just seems inconsistent. Somehow it doesn't seem right that one of the five kamigawa dragon is banned while the others are allowed to fly free.
Because dragons are awesome? Also, keeping an average card banned just seems inconsistent. Somehow it doesn't seem right that one of the five kamigawa dragon is banned while the others are allowed to fly free.
Sure, but my point is that this banning is largely a point of aesthetics, not of functionality. It would look really weird if Jasmine Boreal were on the ban list too, but it would affect little in the way of actual decks that people play.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
This is pretty lame. Not even a ☺☺☺☺ing mention of Kokusho, the Evening Star who isn't even part of an infinite combo, is significantly weaker than legal creatures recently printed, wouldn't even make for a spectacular general compared to other 6 cmc creatures... I'm extremely frustrated by this decision, as they unbanned the wrong dragon... i don't remember EVER hearing someone even mention that they want gorger back, much less because they miss it, or its a strong part of thier mtg nostalgia, or because it looks like a "cool" design they wish to build around. He literally does one thing and thats combo off. I fully expect to see the combo (and its many variations) packed into every kaalia deck list right along side several win on the spot combo's like angel of despair, or Bogardan Hellkite, or extractor demon. These are just the ones that are on theme tribe wise.
Kokusho isn't even bannable anymore yet we don't get even a word or reason as to why...
I care... It shows flaws in consisitancy, Kokusho plays a large role in my MTG history and part of why I play EDH is I can play with cards from my history. Would it make every black deck out there like primeval titan does? No, but it would make most of mine, or atleast one of mine. Besides the reason they gave could specifically apply directly to kokusho... They want the list to be as short as possible, yet they keep a mediocre creature banned
Practically speaking, banning Kokusho is a lot like banning Brown Ouphe. Sure there might be one deck that can use it, but no one really cares, and there's a lot of replacement effects that are at a "similar" power level (read: significantly stronger).
Woah...kind of surprised to see this guy unbanned. I'm all for new experiences and all, but this guy falls under the same criteria as Palinchron, Metal Worker, or Power Artifact; i.e. he will be only used for degenerate purposes.
This is pretty lame. Not even a ☺☺☺☺ing mention of Kokusho, the Evening Star. Kokusho isn't even bannable anymore yet we don't get even a word or reason as to why...
Agreed. hardly anybody (and nobody that I've seen) has ever advocated for Worldgorger to be unbanned whereas those advocating Koko's unbanning have been trying hard to raise the case to no avail.
It's sad when the RC, who's job is to balance and mediate the format, doesn't take into account opinions and testimonies from the members of its community. We are not even provided a reason why he remains banned.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
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Nothing is banned this update.
Announcement can be found on the official Commander website.
Discuss.
Now Playing:
Legacy - The Gate
Modern - U/W Gifts Tron, U/W Tron
Standard - Nothing
The Animate Dead Worldgorger combo gives you infinite mana.
Worldgorger Dragon was used for infinite mana combos. Animate dead let's a loop for infinite mana. They are showing Red some love.
In case you don't know how it works, cause someone is bond to ask.
For Infinite Mana, (Add other permanents with Enter the Battlefield effects and it gets stupid)
1) Animate dead target Worldgorger Dragon
2) Worldgorger Dragon comes into play, triggers, RFGs Everything.
3) Animate dead triggers, Kills Worldgorger Dragon
4) Worldgorger Dragon leaves play triggers, everything comes back untapped. Animate dead comes back and targets Worldgorger Dragon
5) Tap all your lands in response to Worldgorger Dragon comes into play trigger. Repeat 2-5 as many times as you want.
6) To end the loop, just target a different creature in your graveyard with Animate dead.
Thanks for the very detailed description of the combo. I appreciate it.
Now Playing:
Legacy - The Gate
Modern - U/W Gifts Tron, U/W Tron
Standard - Nothing
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9564
Opening hand with 3 specific cards happen all the time in EDH.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
I guess I will be playing Necromancy...
I've been thinking about Kokusho more and I actually realized I don't care. I don't have a single deck that would legitimately want to play him, and in the several dozen EDH decks I've played against, it was only a good inclusion for ONE of them: a Balthor the Defiled deck.
A 5 point Exsanguinate is really just not that good in EDH. Gaining 20 life doesn't really keep you alive. That's because deaths in EDH are most commonly from one of three things:
* 21 points of general damage (eg. Large Kresh)
* Some infinite combo that kills everyone (eg. Infinite mana + Oona)
* A play that gives someone an incredible board position (eg. Genesis wave for 15 or Tooth and Nail for Kozilek and Ulamog)
In none of these situations does gaining 20 life matter, and neither does making your opponents lose 5 life. Life is obviously worthless in the first two cases. In the third case, you're likely getting attacked for on the order of 40 to 100 damage, or possibly taking annihilator: 8. Even using recurring and reusing Kokusho 3 times won't make a bit of difference.
The ONLY time Kokusho helps is in situations where people are trying to win the game by swinging at people for between 5 and 8 damage a turn. That's pretty rare, but even when people try it, the game pacing is slow enough that politics will cause everyone to focus their 5 to 8 damage on you for several turns, so politics will negate even that advantage.
Practically speaking, banning Kokusho is a lot like banning Brown Ouphe. Sure there might be one deck that can use it, but no one really cares, and there's a lot of replacement effects that are at a "similar" power level (read: significantly stronger).
No one would care if they banned Beast Walkers and Cinder Wall. Why do we care about Kokusho again?
Staff of Domination? Are you kidding me? Staff of domination not only enables several infinite mana combos it gives you something to do with that mana which help win the game. Not only that but if you run it out without protection, you risk losing your entire board and not to mention you need a way to kill the table at instant speed or another creature in the graveyard or else you draw the game. I'd say he's one of the least degenerate infinite mana combos and is probably fine for EDH
Because dragons are awesome? Also, keeping an average card banned just seems inconsistent. Somehow it doesn't seem right that one of the five kamigawa dragon is banned while the others are allowed to fly free.
EDIT: Iname, Death Aspect might mind... a little.
Sure, but my point is that this banning is largely a point of aesthetics, not of functionality. It would look really weird if Jasmine Boreal were on the ban list too, but it would affect little in the way of actual decks that people play.
Kokusho isn't even bannable anymore yet we don't get even a word or reason as to why...
I care... It shows flaws in consisitancy, Kokusho plays a large role in my MTG history and part of why I play EDH is I can play with cards from my history. Would it make every black deck out there like primeval titan does? No, but it would make most of mine, or atleast one of mine. Besides the reason they gave could specifically apply directly to kokusho... They want the list to be as short as possible, yet they keep a mediocre creature banned
Kaalia, Karador, Teneb, Chainer, Balthor, Savra, Lyzolda...
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Agreed. hardly anybody (and nobody that I've seen) has ever advocated for Worldgorger to be unbanned whereas those advocating Koko's unbanning have been trying hard to raise the case to no avail.
It's sad when the RC, who's job is to balance and mediate the format, doesn't take into account opinions and testimonies from the members of its community. We are not even provided a reason why he remains banned.