MTG Salvation

So I don't know if this is the right place, or even if this has been said before but I'll let what I have speak for itself, I just wanna share this with the community if it hasn't already been done, and maybe everyone can think of other ways to do these combos:

All you need is Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar

Combined with any of these cards produces extremely fun side effects, you just sac the creature to the Altar and use Deathmantle to recur it.

Avenger of Zendikar - Infinite tokens + infinite mana
Grave Titan - infinite tokens + infinite mana
Wurmcoil Engine - infinite mana + infinite tokens
Massacre Wurm - Destroy everything (needs extra mana)
Priest of Gix - Infinite black mana
Puppeteer Clique - Infinite stealing of opponents creatures + infinite mana
Kitchen Finks - Infinite Life
Woodfall Primus - Destroy all non-creature permanents

Pretty much anything that creates 2 or more tokens makes for infinite mana and infinite token production.

The fun part is that this combo is with artifacts so you don't have to splash colors and most decks can support these.

What do you think?

I'm sure I've missed many many more of them but these seem pretty good to start with

This seems pretty awesome, but I dislike playing infinite combos. Still cool, though.

Primeval Titan - All lands in play (as long as you can at least tap them for colorless mana)

Can't. They enter the battlefield tapped.

You forgot Rasputin Dreamweaver. That combo (or Phyrexian Altar) is the reason I love him a lot and why people are hard for him as a general. Add in Blasting Station and the infinite mana is a side-effect.

Quote from Lanxal

This seems pretty awesome, but I dislike playing infinite combos. Still cool, though.



Can't. They enter the battlefield tapped.

you're right I'll remove it, forgot that little detail

Murderous Redcap gives you infinite damage.

Quote from destinytrigger

Murderous Redcap gives you infinite damage.

And only because you can sac him twice with Persist. That's sneaky.... but not as sneaky as actually playing him in EDH.

Quote from Galspanic

And only because you can sac him twice with Persist. That's sneaky.... but not as sneaky as actually playing him in EDH.

Say what you will, I like the guy. Not as much as Flametongue Kavu or Duplicant, but I like him. And there are plenty of ways to make great use out of the wording of his EtB ability.

Su-Chi?

River Kelpie - draw deck
Puppeteer Clique - liliana vess's ultimate for a turn

check through my Teneb deck list for some of the disgusting Nim Deathmantle combos I've pulled off...thread is here, feel free to comment on it:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=315676

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. I see perfectly well how it works with Wurmcoil Engine, but.......

Puppeteer Clique

1)Sac Puppeteer Clique and the creature it recurred to the Altar (4 mana in pool).
2)Use the 4 mana to return Clique to play/attach Deathmantle (ignoring persist because you stacked it to use deathmantle first). . You now get to recur another creature with Cliques ability.
3) Repeat.... but you have to sac both creatures to get the required 4 mana to activate the deathmantle again. So while you're removing creatures from the opps graveyards, you won't get to swing with them (because you had to sac them for mana) and you won't get infimana because you come out even every time. No?


And Murderous Redcap? Won't you have to have another creature to sac off every time with him to go infinite?

If you return them with persist they have a counter on them. Deathmantle doesn't add counters, so it doesn't cancel out the -1 that's on there.

What am I not getting?

Quote from Blackjack68

What am I not getting?

1. Sac the Clique without any counters on it for 2 mana.
2. It returns with one -1/-1 counter on it. Yank a creature.
3. Sac it again to the 4th mana.
4. It hits the yard, Deathmantle triggers and you pay 4. It comes back fresh because it isn't Persisting so no -1/-1 counters since it's a new copy of the Clique.
5. Yank a creature.
6. Repeat 1-5.

Quote from Blackjack68

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. I see perfectly well how it works with Wurmcoil Engine, but.......

Puppeteer Clique

1)Sac Puppeteer Clique and the creature it recurred to the Altar (4 mana in pool).
2)Use the 4 mana to return Clique to play/attach Deathmantle (ignoring persist because you stacked it to use deathmantle first). . You now get to recur another creature with Cliques ability.
3) Repeat.... but you have to sac both creatures to get the required 4 mana to activate the deathmantle again. So while you're removing creatures from the opps graveyards, you won't get to swing with them (because you had to sac them for mana) and you won't get infimana because you come out even every time. No?


And Murderous Redcap? Won't you have to have another creature to sac off every time with him to go infinite?

If you return them with persist they have a counter on them. Deathmantle doesn't add counters, so it doesn't cancel out the -1 that's on there.

What am I not getting?

I think the point is that you do not ignore persist. Instead you let it get back with persist half the time and hence get 4 mana sacrificing only the persist creature - btw. you only have to exile the creature with clique if it is alive at eot when the trigger trigger.

Quote from Blackjack68

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. I see perfectly well how it works with Wurmcoil Engine, but.......

Puppeteer Clique

1)Sac Puppeteer Clique and the creature it recurred to the Altar (4 mana in pool).
2)Use the 4 mana to return Clique to play/attach Deathmantle (ignoring persist because you stacked it to use deathmantle first). . You now get to recur another creature with Cliques ability.
3) Repeat.... but you have to sac both creatures to get the required 4 mana to activate the deathmantle again. So while you're removing creatures from the opps graveyards, you won't get to swing with them (because you had to sac them for mana) and you won't get infimana because you come out even every time. No?


And Murderous Redcap? Won't you have to have another creature to sac off every time with him to go infinite?

If you return them with persist they have a counter on them. Deathmantle doesn't add counters, so it doesn't cancel out the -1 that's on there.

What am I not getting?

Deathmantle returns them from the graveyard to the battlefield. Even if they go to the graveyard with a -1/-1 counter, if you return it with Deathmantle, it'll come back as a new creature, without any -1/-1 counters. It's the same as blinking or bouncing a persist creature that has a -1/-1 counter.

Which means that you can endlessly recur any persist creature. And you know what that means! One-sided Armageddon with Woodfall Primus, heck yeah.

Also, infinite life with Kitchen Finks and infinite mana with Twilight Sheperd if you have another creature (infinite ETB effects too if that creature was something like Flametongue Kavu).

Ok, got it now. Thanks for the explainations.

Would Murderous Redcap or Kitchen Finks work though? Won't they hit the graveyard and trigger the Deathmantle's triggered ability before you actually have the 4 mana to pay since the cost for the Altar's ability occurs distinctly before the ability?

Quote from traveler

Would Murderous Redcap or Kitchen Finks work though? Won't they hit the graveyard and trigger the Deathmantle's triggered ability before you actually have the 4 mana to pay since the cost for the Altar's ability occurs distinctly before the ability?

Ashnod's Altar is a mana ability, so it doesn't use the stack. So you get the 2 mana into your pool before you need to pay for the Deathmantle trigger.

Heh, I know how many cool things there are to do with Deathmantle, but I just like steady advantage from it rather than combo with it. Clamp Witness, then return it, drawing two cards and recurring something for 5. Evoke Shriekmaw, then pay 4 to kill two creatures and get an evasive body for 6 mana. Fulminator Mage becomes "Pay 4: Wasteland", and Sakura-Tribe Elder becomes "Pay 4: Rampant Growth. And of course, people don't want to kill your creatures with a Deathmantle, 4 open and a ton of ridiculous EtB effects.

Quote from destinytrigger

Heh, I know how many cool things there are to do with Deathmantle, but I just like steady advantage from it rather than combo with it. Clamp Witness, then return it, drawing two cards and recurring something for 5. Evoke Shriekmaw, then pay 4 to kill two creatures and get an evasive body for 6 mana. Fulminator Mage becomes "Pay 4: Wasteland", and Sakura-Tribe Elder becomes "Pay 4: Rampant Growth. And of course, people don't want to kill your creatures with a Deathmantle, 4 open and a ton of ridiculous EtB effects.

And this is why I want Warhammer bumped from the Top-50 list for Deathmantle. I play it in a couple of decks and it's amazing how useful it is. Oh and it makes your guy bigger and unblockable a lot of time. Add in the fact that you can Transmute for it with Shred Memory and Muddle the Mixture is icing.

I've done the Deathmantle+Ashnod's Altar before, and I can attest to its amazing power.

I was recurring Primeval Titan and Spike Weaver for a while before my friends decided enough was enough and nuked my Ashnod's Altar (arguably the right play, since I could go infinite with it in my deck, even without the Deathmantle).

The thing about Persist is nice to know. I think I'll have to acquire a Kitchen Finks to toss in my deck instead of the Lone Missionary I currently have in my sideboard.

Infinite mill: composite golem+nim deathmantle+ altar of the brrood.
Infinite damage: composite golem+nim deathmantle+ fireball/disintergrate
Play all permenants in deck in an instant: composite golem+ nim deathmantle+ genesis wave

Missed trigger, didn't pay 4 in time to reanimate this thread. Locked.