Umm you can untap that mana with Mind over Matter by discarding. Unless you are doing 1 for 1. But even then you can dig pretty deep and hard for answers/combo pieces. It is a powerful card, but unlike Emmy you need other cards to take advantage of it. People are more forgiving of combos then single cards.
Ehh I'm just not a fan of digging through my deck heedlessly. But I digress. This thread is about Em, not my feelings about random car searching.
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If you having burn problems I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems but a bolt ain't one.
Everyone in my group runs emrakul and it has never been a problem. Rarely does she get hard cast. And she has only ever ENDED 1 game out of the thousands we have played. She usually gets one attack off, puts 1 person behind then she gets killed. That person she smacked usually is no longer a threat at all, so no one goes after them and they get to rebuild their board anyway.
Everyone in my group runs emrakul and it has never been a problem. Rarely does she get hard cast. And she has only ever ENDED 1 game out of the thousands we have played. She usually gets one attack off, puts 1 person behind then she gets killed. That person she smacked usually is no longer a threat at all, so no one goes after them and they get to rebuild their board anyway.
So if it is so weak why does anyone play it?
Also as you have been told many times over, people play magic outside your group. Other people don't like him because they feel he has a negative impact on the game by centralizing it around him or give easy repeated boring wins. You claim he makes no major impact on your game. So would it really hurt you if it was banned? Would it effect you in any way other then not being able to act elitist about how "easy" he is to deal with?
Also as you have been told many times over, people play magic outside your group. Other people don't like him because they feel he has a negative impact on the game by centralizing it around him or give easy repeated boring wins. You claim he makes no major impact on your game. So would it really hurt you if it was banned? Would it effect you in any way other then not being able to act elitist about how "easy" he is to deal with?
The reason I oppose banning him is not because I'd be upset to see this particular card go, but because I'd be upset that the rules committee would be setting a really bad precedent for what constitutes an excessive power level.
I agree with some of the statements people in favor of banning him have made:
1. Emrakul is often quite annoying
2. Sometimes Emrakul determines the outcome of games
3. He gets out of hand if not answered quickly
4. Some decks don't/can't run any answers to him.
But even with all these things being true, I don't want him banned. Why? Because if those four criteria are the banning criteria, Sheldon would have to drop the banhammer on a whole bunch of other cards.
Reread those four criteria again, and ask yourself if they describe:
(This is an abridged list, there are dozens of cards that meet these criteria)
Right now we have a balanced, fun EDH format with a solid banlist. Banning Emrakul because he's annoying and unfun sets the precedent that the banlist is meant to make EDH as "fun" as possible. It's not. The banlist is about having a balanced format. If the list starts being about fun, we start opening it up to a whole bunch of subjective determinations and will get people lobbying to get their least favorite card banned.
Pretty soon, we have a hamstrung format with a 200-card banlist that's all about playing big dudes and running them into each other because "Winter Orb isn't fun," "Moat is too broken" etc.
I will be disappointed if this ban happens, not because I'll be sad to see Emmy go (as I've said in previous posts, I don't play him in any of my decks) but because of what it will mean for the future of the format.
The reason I oppose banning him is not because I'd be upset to see this particular card go, but because I'd be upset that the rules committee would be setting a really bad precedent for what constitutes an excessive power level.
How do you know why they maybe banning it? Personally if it is banned I see it as more of a Kokusho, the Evening Star banning, because it warps the format around itself. Not to mention it is colorless so every deck can use it. The reasons that apply to Kokusho doubly apply to Emmy.
The one counter argument I have against your list of other power cards is they require other cards to be effective. Emmy just by himself is the issue. You don't need anything else with him to make him a problem.
I am not convinced they are really banning him. But honestly if they do I think it would probably be a good thing over all for the format. The RC seems to have been pretty careful and consider bans before doing them. So far they have helped the format grow to the point WotC was forced to even jump in on the banwagon. Give them a chance. If the ban is true I bet in a year no one will mourn Emmy's loss except the people that could not win any other way.
Pretty soon, we have a hamstrung format with a 200-card banlist that's all about playing big dudes and running them into each other because "Winter Orb isn't fun," "Moat is too broken" etc.
Why is this always the fallback exaggeration with you guys? Do you honestly think anyone plays a 60 card vanilla creature, 40 card basic land deck? And on the other end of the spectrum, how many decks are 0 creature?
"big dudes"
emrakul is the biggest! In this imaginary mtg apocalypse, wouldn't he be the forerunner?
Also slippery slope argument is just horrible. If he is banned, given the rate it took to ban him, it'll be hundreds of years before we reach something like what you described.
I hope they ban him for the same reason as Kokusho.
The problem with Emrakul is that there are so many ways to cheat him into play very quickly effectively ending the game for everyone if not dealt with. You can even cheat him in and gain the extra turn, making it almost impossible to deal with. Yes there are ways to deal with him, but unlike with other creatures, you wont lose the game if you don't come up with an answer right away. It's the annihilator 6 that makes him a problem. I dont know how many times that i've been attacked by him with only having 6 permanents up.
If you are going to cheat a creature in, it might as well be Emrakul. Then he is colorless so any deck can use him. Having him in the format just makes a bunch of other creatures useless and really makes the game one dimensional if you always have to deal with him. The annihilator is just bad for the format, period.
I hope they ban him for the same reason as Kokusho.
emmy and koko really have nothing in common except that neither belongs on the ban list. koko is there because he makes the game all about using him, emmy just makes everyone kill it just like any other threat.
Ehh I'm just not a fan of digging through my deck heedlessly. But I digress. This thread is about Em, not my feelings about random car searching.
mxmlmn on cockatrice
So if it is so weak why does anyone play it?
Also as you have been told many times over, people play magic outside your group. Other people don't like him because they feel he has a negative impact on the game by centralizing it around him or give easy repeated boring wins. You claim he makes no major impact on your game. So would it really hurt you if it was banned? Would it effect you in any way other then not being able to act elitist about how "easy" he is to deal with?
The reason I oppose banning him is not because I'd be upset to see this particular card go, but because I'd be upset that the rules committee would be setting a really bad precedent for what constitutes an excessive power level.
I agree with some of the statements people in favor of banning him have made:
1. Emrakul is often quite annoying
2. Sometimes Emrakul determines the outcome of games
3. He gets out of hand if not answered quickly
4. Some decks don't/can't run any answers to him.
But even with all these things being true, I don't want him banned. Why? Because if those four criteria are the banning criteria, Sheldon would have to drop the banhammer on a whole bunch of other cards.
Reread those four criteria again, and ask yourself if they describe:
1. Time Stretch
2. Mind Over Matter
3. Decree of Annihilation
4. Zur the Enchanter
5. Necropotence
6. Uril the Miststalker
7. Tooth and Nail (even if you don't grab Emmy)
8. Eye of the Storm
(This is an abridged list, there are dozens of cards that meet these criteria)
Right now we have a balanced, fun EDH format with a solid banlist. Banning Emrakul because he's annoying and unfun sets the precedent that the banlist is meant to make EDH as "fun" as possible. It's not. The banlist is about having a balanced format. If the list starts being about fun, we start opening it up to a whole bunch of subjective determinations and will get people lobbying to get their least favorite card banned.
Pretty soon, we have a hamstrung format with a 200-card banlist that's all about playing big dudes and running them into each other because "Winter Orb isn't fun," "Moat is too broken" etc.
I will be disappointed if this ban happens, not because I'll be sad to see Emmy go (as I've said in previous posts, I don't play him in any of my decks) but because of what it will mean for the future of the format.
How do you know why they maybe banning it? Personally if it is banned I see it as more of a Kokusho, the Evening Star banning, because it warps the format around itself. Not to mention it is colorless so every deck can use it. The reasons that apply to Kokusho doubly apply to Emmy.
The one counter argument I have against your list of other power cards is they require other cards to be effective. Emmy just by himself is the issue. You don't need anything else with him to make him a problem.
I am not convinced they are really banning him. But honestly if they do I think it would probably be a good thing over all for the format. The RC seems to have been pretty careful and consider bans before doing them. So far they have helped the format grow to the point WotC was forced to even jump in on the banwagon. Give them a chance. If the ban is true I bet in a year no one will mourn Emmy's loss except the people that could not win any other way.
Why is this always the fallback exaggeration with you guys? Do you honestly think anyone plays a 60 card vanilla creature, 40 card basic land deck? And on the other end of the spectrum, how many decks are 0 creature?
"big dudes"
emrakul is the biggest! In this imaginary mtg apocalypse, wouldn't he be the forerunner?
Also slippery slope argument is just horrible. If he is banned, given the rate it took to ban him, it'll be hundreds of years before we reach something like what you described.
The problem with Emrakul is that there are so many ways to cheat him into play very quickly effectively ending the game for everyone if not dealt with. You can even cheat him in and gain the extra turn, making it almost impossible to deal with. Yes there are ways to deal with him, but unlike with other creatures, you wont lose the game if you don't come up with an answer right away. It's the annihilator 6 that makes him a problem. I dont know how many times that i've been attacked by him with only having 6 permanents up.
If you are going to cheat a creature in, it might as well be Emrakul. Then he is colorless so any deck can use him. Having him in the format just makes a bunch of other creatures useless and really makes the game one dimensional if you always have to deal with him. The annihilator is just bad for the format, period.
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
emmy and koko really have nothing in common except that neither belongs on the ban list. koko is there because he makes the game all about using him, emmy just makes everyone kill it just like any other threat.
Sharuum the Hegemon
Mayael the Anima
Wort, Boggart Auntie
Sliver Overlord
Drana Kalastria Bloodchief
99 mountain Ashling
Closed.