The second most broken general in EDH (first being Braids). He is a Timmy's wet dream letting you play with fat that you probably haven't played before, but be warned... you probably won't be invited back for more if you play with Rofellos. At the very least, the whole table will be trying to do everything in their power to get rid of him.
For those of you know haven't seen Rofellos, it's simple. Play Rofellos on turn 2, and when you untap on turn 3, you'll have 6 green mana at your disposal. This usually leads into playing mana ramp cards to lead to near exponential increases in mana, or playing quick bombs like Silvos. Cards like Plow Under and Stunted Growth are ridiculous by turn 3, even moreso with recursion backing it up.
Of course, you have Umbral Mantle, Sword of the Paruns, and Staff of Domination which lead to infinite mana at the least. Umbral Mantle ends the game if your opponent has no blockers for Rofellos, and Staff of Domination wins the game no matter what.
Rofellos is unbelievably ridiculous. He is so ****ing fast. The vast majority of generals in EDH just cannot keep up with the speed of Rofellos. Arcum Dagsson and Zur are probably the few generals I can think of that can even outrace Rofellos, and that's not taking into consideration the Rofellos player drawing into an immediate game-ending infinite or getting artifact/land destruction. He comes into play turn 2 95% of the time, and he usually stays safe when you get to untap on your turn 3 because of the nature of EDH. Basically, if your opponent can't kill Rofellos by turn 2, they are in for a not-so-fun match.
Rofellos.
Basically, if your opponent can't kill Rofellos by turn 2, they are in for a not-so-fun match.
Which makes me wonder why you'd want to play him if your goal is to give your opponent a not-so-fun match. Seems to be counter-intuitive to the very nature of EDH. If you want to give someone a not-so-fun match, play Standard and do something to them that is not-so-fun. EDH isn't cutthroat, imo.
Which makes me wonder why you'd want to play him if your goal is to give your opponent a not-so-fun match. Seems to be counter-intuitive to the very nature of EDH. If you want to give someone a not-so-fun match, play Standard and do something to them that is not-so-fun. EDH isn't cutthroat, imo.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It's really frustrating to try and test an EDH deck on MWS against the ubiquitious Rofellos decks and get blown out before I can do anything real relevant.
It is fun though playing with all sorts of random green fat. It's a pretty nasty dichotomy of feelings sometimes. The problem is, it comes out too fast for most EDH decks to handle. Though I actually feel like playing Rofellos again so I can get him rebanned
haha, yeah, I see where you're coming from. I'm all about everyone having a good time and if someone wants to roflstomp somebody with Rofellos, then by all means, build a Rofellos deck and stomp face. You might run out of people willing to play 1v1, but that's the price you pay. I imagine if you were to play a 4-player game with Rofellos and everyone knew what it was capable of, you'd have a tough time doing anything with it turning into a 3v1 until you're dead.
A guy at my local shop runs into the same problem in his 5-color deck with Time Stretch, Bringer of the Black Dawn and other stupid ways to take infinite turns. He gets hated on quickly, or, if we're being nice, he builds up, goes off, we thank him for playing, ask him to pack up his stuff and continue playing with the rest of the people at the table.
I don't imagine I'll ever run Time Stretch in a deck because I just don't think it's fun, ever. As the active player, you have to make sure you get everything done in your extra turns because if you don't, you're hosed and if you're not the active player, you sit there twiddling your thumbs. Just not fun.
While really fast green fatties could be a lot of fun, I'd also appreciate the haterade I got served for showing up with Rofellos. And no one at my shop would probably play 1v1, except maybe this guy with Sigg, River Cutthroat tuned for 1v1.
I love this discussion! So to summarize, you're saying that an optimal EDH deck should strive to be suboptimal? Don't play anything too good, because it will make those playing bad decks sad pandas. Otoh, don't play anything too bad either, at least not if you think winning at least occasionally is fun. The goal of the EDH deck then is to "suck just right" - kinda like playing chess with a five year old. You don't want it to show too much that you're holding back, nor do you want to pull all the insane plays waiting to happen, because both of these may stop the five year old from playing with you. It even resembles being a dungeon master - you get to decide when and to what extent players will be winning and having fun.
Braids got banned because it was too powerful, and inevitably this leads to a reversed power creep where Rofellos, Zur and perhaps a few combo generals are the next-in-line über generals. And now you're saying don't play those... then what? Perhaps Rafiq becomes the next generation über general, and people will start complaining about how turn 5 wins from general damage are unfair.
I think there are basically three options - 1) play the most powerful and ridiculous legal deck you can imagine, but do it subtly so people stil think they have a chance against you; 2) play whatever deck you like and have fun, but don't complain when better players/decks beat you or 3) play a strong "tier 2" deck that can beat most of the über decks while still having a good shot at fun and successful multi-player games (my thoughts when making my Lin Sivvi list).
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I love this discussion! So to summarize, you're saying that an optimal EDH deck should strive to be suboptimal? Don't play anything too good, because it will make those playing bad decks sad pandas. Otoh, don't play anything too bad either, at least not if you think winning at least occasionally is fun. The goal of the EDH deck then is to "suck just right" - kinda like playing chess with a five year old. You don't want it to show too much that you're holding back, nor do you want to pull all the insane plays waiting to happen, because both of these may stop the five year old from playing with you. It even resembles being a dungeon master - you get to decide when and to what extent players will be winning and having fun.
Braids got banned because it was too powerful, and inevitably this leads to a reversed power creep where Rofellos, Zur and perhaps a few combo generals are the next-in-line über generals. And now you're saying don't play those... then what? Perhaps Rafiq becomes the next generation über general, and people will start complaining about how turn 5 wins from general damage are unfair.
I think there are basically three options - 1) play the most powerful and ridiculous legal deck you can imagine, but do it subtly so people stil think they have a chance against you; 2) play whatever deck you like and have fun, but don't complain when better players/decks beat you or 3) play a strong "tier 2" deck that can beat most of the über decks while still having a good shot at fun and successful multi-player games (my thoughts when making my Lin Sivvi list).
Well said. I really hate it when EDH players on the forums here get all snooty about "competitive" decks/players.
I think there are basically three options - 1) play the most powerful and ridiculous legal deck you can imagine, but do it subtly so people stil think they have a chance against you; 2) play whatever deck you like and have fun, but don't complain when better players/decks beat you or 3) play a strong "tier 2" deck that can beat most of the über decks while still having a good shot at fun and successful multi-player games (my thoughts when making my Lin Sivvi list).
Well, if you read my post, you'd see that I kind of opted for option #2. I said, to the same effect, in the end, do whatever you want. Make a deck with whatever general you wish. In my circle, at my store, if you showed up for casual EDH with Rofellos or anyone that powerful, you wouldn't get a lot of 1v1 matches and as far as casual goes, your multi-player experience might be a fair one. If you came to EDH league night with that deck, you'd experience a savage 3v1 until you were dead.
Those results are not the kind of results I aim for when I play EDH. Therefore, I will not play a general that I see as overpowered. My initial response was to the OPs comment that your opponents would be in for a not-so-fun match, which, regardless of what level of power you're going for with your deck, should not be a goal of EDH. This is, of course, simply my opinion.
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The second most broken general in EDH (first being Braids). He is a Timmy's wet dream letting you play with fat that you probably haven't played before, but be warned... you probably won't be invited back for more if you play with Rofellos. At the very least, the whole table will be trying to do everything in their power to get rid of him.
01 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Creatures
02 Wood Elves
03 Killer Bees
04 Unyaro Bees
05 Eternal Witness
06 Yavimaya Elder
07 Fierce Empath
08 Masked Admirers
09 Stampeding Serow
10 Citunal Woodreaders
11 Masticore
12 Acidic Slime
13 Silverglade Elemental
14 Seedborn Muse
15 Ursapine
16 Nemata, Grove Guardian
17 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
18 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
19 Genesis
20 Krosan Tusker
21 Panglacial Wurm
22 Regal Force
23 Duplicant
24 Sundering Titan
25 Woodfall Primus
26 Verdant Force
27 Kodama's Reach
28 Explosive Vegetaion
29 Skyshroud Claim
30 Hunting Wilds
31 Journey of Discovery
32 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
33 Sol Ring
34 Gauntlet of Power
I WIN
35 Staff of Domination
36 Umbral Mantle
37 Sword of the Paruns
Assorted Artifacts
38 Lightning Greaves
39 Thousand-Year Elixir
40 Tower of Fortunes
41 Crucible of Worlds
42 Predator, Flagship
43 Scroll Rack
44 Mindslaver
45 Mind's Eye
46 Skullclamp
This stuff is good too
47 Survival of the Fittest
48 Worldly Tutor
49 Regrowth
50 Harmonize
51 Restock
52 Plow Under
53 Stunted Growth
54 Primal Command
55 Centaur Glade
56 Rude Awakening
57 Squall Line
58 Howl of the Night Pack
59 Wurmcalling
60 Sylvan Libary
61 Desert Twister
62 Crush of Wurms
63 Natural Order
64 Helix Pinnacle
65-95 Snow-Covered Forest
96 Gaea's Cradle
97 Mouth of Ronom
98 Scrying Sheets
99 Strip Mine
100 Wooded Foothills
For those of you know haven't seen Rofellos, it's simple. Play Rofellos on turn 2, and when you untap on turn 3, you'll have 6 green mana at your disposal. This usually leads into playing mana ramp cards to lead to near exponential increases in mana, or playing quick bombs like Silvos. Cards like Plow Under and Stunted Growth are ridiculous by turn 3, even moreso with recursion backing it up.
Of course, you have Umbral Mantle, Sword of the Paruns, and Staff of Domination which lead to infinite mana at the least. Umbral Mantle ends the game if your opponent has no blockers for Rofellos, and Staff of Domination wins the game no matter what.
Rofellos is unbelievably ridiculous. He is so ****ing fast. The vast majority of generals in EDH just cannot keep up with the speed of Rofellos. Arcum Dagsson and Zur are probably the few generals I can think of that can even outrace Rofellos, and that's not taking into consideration the Rofellos player drawing into an immediate game-ending infinite or getting artifact/land destruction. He comes into play turn 2 95% of the time, and he usually stays safe when you get to untap on your turn 3 because of the nature of EDH. Basically, if your opponent can't kill Rofellos by turn 2, they are in for a not-so-fun match.
Which makes me wonder why you'd want to play him if your goal is to give your opponent a not-so-fun match. Seems to be counter-intuitive to the very nature of EDH. If you want to give someone a not-so-fun match, play Standard and do something to them that is not-so-fun. EDH isn't cutthroat, imo.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It's really frustrating to try and test an EDH deck on MWS against the ubiquitious Rofellos decks and get blown out before I can do anything real relevant.
It is fun though playing with all sorts of random green fat. It's a pretty nasty dichotomy of feelings sometimes. The problem is, it comes out too fast for most EDH decks to handle. Though I actually feel like playing Rofellos again so I can get him rebanned
A guy at my local shop runs into the same problem in his 5-color deck with Time Stretch, Bringer of the Black Dawn and other stupid ways to take infinite turns. He gets hated on quickly, or, if we're being nice, he builds up, goes off, we thank him for playing, ask him to pack up his stuff and continue playing with the rest of the people at the table.
I don't imagine I'll ever run Time Stretch in a deck because I just don't think it's fun, ever. As the active player, you have to make sure you get everything done in your extra turns because if you don't, you're hosed and if you're not the active player, you sit there twiddling your thumbs. Just not fun.
While really fast green fatties could be a lot of fun, I'd also appreciate the haterade I got served for showing up with Rofellos. And no one at my shop would probably play 1v1, except maybe this guy with Sigg, River Cutthroat tuned for 1v1.
Braids got banned because it was too powerful, and inevitably this leads to a reversed power creep where Rofellos, Zur and perhaps a few combo generals are the next-in-line über generals. And now you're saying don't play those... then what? Perhaps Rafiq becomes the next generation über general, and people will start complaining about how turn 5 wins from general damage are unfair.
I think there are basically three options - 1) play the most powerful and ridiculous legal deck you can imagine, but do it subtly so people stil think they have a chance against you; 2) play whatever deck you like and have fun, but don't complain when better players/decks beat you or 3) play a strong "tier 2" deck that can beat most of the über decks while still having a good shot at fun and successful multi-player games (my thoughts when making my Lin Sivvi list).
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
Well said. I really hate it when EDH players on the forums here get all snooty about "competitive" decks/players.
Well, if you read my post, you'd see that I kind of opted for option #2. I said, to the same effect, in the end, do whatever you want. Make a deck with whatever general you wish. In my circle, at my store, if you showed up for casual EDH with Rofellos or anyone that powerful, you wouldn't get a lot of 1v1 matches and as far as casual goes, your multi-player experience might be a fair one. If you came to EDH league night with that deck, you'd experience a savage 3v1 until you were dead.
Those results are not the kind of results I aim for when I play EDH. Therefore, I will not play a general that I see as overpowered. My initial response was to the OPs comment that your opponents would be in for a not-so-fun match, which, regardless of what level of power you're going for with your deck, should not be a goal of EDH. This is, of course, simply my opinion.