Original post:
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The recent success of Cascade Swans at GP Barcelona made me really itch to make an EDH version of it. For those who don't know, here's how the deck works.
The player plays 40+ lands, along with Seismic Assault, Swans of Bryn Agroll, and various cascade cards such as Bloodbraid Elf, Deny Reality, Bitultimous Blast, and Captured Sunlight. The player uses cascade to get an Assault and Swans into play (the Assault is the only 3 cost card in the deck, so you'll always find a Assault off a 4 cost cascade card. a 5 cost cascade card will find you a swans, an assault, or a card to cascade into an assault). With both in play, the player chucks lands at the Swan, drawing more lands, then eventually hurls ten lands to the dome.
The deck is very simple for an EDH deck. It runs a LOT of lands. Every card outside the lands is either a combo piece, a tutor, or a cascade spell. That means that if you Deny Reality, your either going to hit a combo piece, a cascade into a combo piece, or cascade down to a tutor (Mystical Tutor fetches Demonic Tutor).Once it has the combo, you win.
[B]NOTE: THIS IS FOR SINGLE PLAYER.[/B] It would require a bit more work to get the 40 lands neeeded to take out 2 players, etc etc.It might work, but i'm building this to beat single player.
From goldfishing, the deck appears solid. The combo works well. If i get both cards in play and a land in hand, there is a very very very little chance that I will fizzle. If you only have 1 land in hand, to fizzle you'd need to hit 2 consecutive cards, the first 2 cards, that weren't lands. And if thats so, you wait til another turn.
I knew I needed a way to fetch back the combo against counters, so i used Regrowth. WHats handy about regrowth is that its decent to cascade into without a cascade piece in the GY. Sometimes it'll be useless, but its nice if you then use it to return another cascade spell, keeping the loop going.
Child of Alara was chosen because it can hold the fort well. I needed a 5c general, and i like since a lot of my deck is lands, it seemed fitting that i use a general that was sorta lopsided towards me anyways.
My only worries for the deck are counters. And ofc other ways of killing my stuff.
[B]ALSO: [/B]Just so you know, this deck is nice because if they don't know what your up to, they might not kill the swans right away. If they let the Assault resolve, its game. This deck can win at instant speed, so them trying to kill the Swans in response won't work (I'll just combo off in response to their removal spell).
Any tips on tutors or cards would be most welcome. Mostly, i need more ways to protect the combo. Its very fragile right now, a well times Swords (in respoonse to the Assault being cast) and etc owns the combo. This deck isn't good at winning without the combo. I was thinking of maybe adding some retrace? stuff. Dunno. I'd love to hear suggestions.
Of those, Regrowth, Mystical Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal will all end your cascade chain... Granted most of them will allow you to tutor for the Seismic Assault, but that kind of isn't the point.
And I have to agree, this deck looks to be TOO consistent to be fun...
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Of those, Regrowth, Mystical Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal will all end your cascade chain... Granted most of them will allow you to tutor for the Seismic Assault, but that kind of isn't the point.
And I have to agree, this deck looks to be TOO consistent to be fun...
Well the quote is from my description of the deck thats played in standard. I'm forced to use Ardent Plea and stuff because its ofc singleton.
Actually, of the cards you listed... ONLY regrowth and Mystical tutor don't get me a combo piece, and the 3 cost cascade cards find me one of the tutors. Mystical Tutor simply makes it 1 turn longer, as you fetch Demonic Tutor (or another Cascade I suppose). If
And yea, this deck isn't a "fun" EDH Deck to play. I don't plan to build this in RL (lol as if I could with the lands in there). I just wanted to try and make a deck like this. I figured it might be good for some online games of EDH. Obviously, even if this would work in multiplayer it'd be a very unfun deck to play or play against (though I have to say, while its incredibly consistent, its very easy to disrupt).
I completely forgot about Ad Nauseam, thats a good idea. With 40 life in EDH, its a great alt win con to swans (either should get me the 20 lands).
After my first match with an opponent online, i have a couple of good changes. He was running a classic Mono U EDH deck, really the deck this deck hates, so it was a good experience. I won the first game, he had a bunch of counters but i used child of alara and other stuff to draw out counters, he even took control of my swans, but i dropped Assault and GG. G2 he got glen elendra archmage out, which obviously owns my deck. I almost wore him out of counters, but he had the force for my assault and followed it up with Tormod's Crypt. Third game i drew 30 cards of Ad Nauseam, but was unable to land an Assault. He then countered the Regrowth.
He suggested Land's End, which is perfect. Assault #2! Well.. with Ad Nauseam. Its not perfect, but takes away some of the fragility of the combo. I thought about Lightning Storm, but if you cascade into it without a full hand, its useless.
I had forgotten to add in a card to stop control players, one that I could tutor for. I decided it was between Head Games and Identity Crisis, i'll try identity crisis. I thought of Defense Grid, but its low CC so I could cascade into it.
I'm also going to throw in Worm Harvest as an alt win. Countryside Crusher was cascade-into-able, and if it gets stolen after a big pump... ouch. Worm Harvest is very slow if I don't have a way to stock up my graveyard like a massive Ad Nauseam, but given time is hard to stop. Each casting gets better and better. Its not great, but its decent.
@MellowMight... I've been playing the original list that you posted and have only won 1 game out of four. Somethings that I feel are wrong with the deck:
-81 lands... Too much. Mulled several times into hand fulls (literally) of land. Maybe cutting to 70 or so is better.
-Land's Edge is a definate need. 1 Assault is too few.
-It needs another win mech. Swans combo is great and all, but not gonna win you every game.
-More protection. The combo is too fragile and one wipe away with a counter means you lose.
-Ad Nauseum seems good, but not while playing land's edge. That could spell gg for you, not them.
If you could post a newer list, that'd be great too.
I feel as if he should run a lot more utility lands, sort of like the 41 land legacy deck. With more utility lands you can make up for some of the full land draws
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Standard GBGB AggroGB
Modern GBRWDeath's ShadowGBRW UBWRAffinityUBWR GRTitanshiftGR URBGrixis ControlURB
Legacy BUGTrue Name BUGBUG UBRGrixis DelverUBR BUGShardless BUGBUG BUGElvesBUG
That seems about right. I think that landbase includes just about all playable man-lands in the format, as well as most of the good utility lands. The only problem I have with this is that it might get colourscrewed, but I added vivids to try to avoid that. The other concern is that it might be a turn slower because a lot of the lands come into play tapped. I still believe that this is quite good for the landbase. What do you think?
EDIT: Also, what do you think of cutting something for the Mouth of Ronom, as I think the manabase could support it if we switched all the basic lands for snow-covered ones. Then again, I don't want to search for those with fetches, either..
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
First, if I were to make this deck Multiplayer, Wheel of Sun and Moon is a perfect idea! I'm just using this on MWS, so I won't use it, but that would make the combo pretty much infinite right?
@MellowMight... I've been playing the original list that you posted and have only won 1 game out of four. Somethings that I feel are wrong with the deck:
-81 lands... Too much. Mulled several times into hand fulls (literally) of land. Maybe cutting to 70 or so is better.
-Land's Edge is a definate need. 1 Assault is too few.
-It needs another win mech. Swans combo is great and all, but not gonna win you every game.
-More protection. The combo is too fragile and one wipe away with a counter means you lose.
-Ad Nauseum seems good, but not while playing land's edge. That could spell gg for you, not them.
If you could post a newer list, that'd be great too.
Just wondering, which list did you use? Did it contain Land's Edge/Identity Theft or not? Because addressing your concerns depends on which list you used. Just so people can see what I've been through, I'll admit my playtesting (on MWS) has been fairly sparse. This is what I've played
Uyo, Silent Prophet (mono U control)
Won first game after fighting through some counters. Once he knew what I was doing, lost second game due to counter on Assault followed by Trinket Mage for Tormod's Crypt to remove Assault from the game. Third game I nearly got there, fighting through Glen Elendra Archmage and a Counterspell, but was Foiled by Force of Will.
(made first round of changes)
Sygg, River Cutthroat: (UB Aggro). Won g1 turn 5 after he hit me for a few points of damage, won g2 t6 after he hit me for a few points of damage. Not much to talk about.
'
Sygg, River Cutthroat: (another player): Won game 1 without much problem. G2, i got my bounce land Strip Mined, then was followed up by t4 (he was on the draw) Crucible to my i think 2 lands. I didn't have a way to beat the Crucible lock. G3, mull to 5, i had a good hand though, however he soon had Sygg and Jace out, so he could draw 3 cards a turn, and could Forbid lock me.
Braids, Cabal Minion: Game 1, again I won and he couldn't stop me. He had a turn 3 braids (after t2 Bitterblossom), which would have owned me, however I dropped Seismic assault, meaning Braids couldn't stick. G2, had a mull to 4, he had some dudes, and was laying the beat down. I eventually drew out of it. He had searched up an O ring (Mono B enchantment destruction!) but I drew it out, and then Ad Nauseamed at 20 life. In the next 5 cards I drew Enlisted Wurm, Identity Crisis, Wurm Harvest and 2 lands. I wasn't able to go anywhere. G3 was TRULY Epic. I kept a decent 6 card hand, but got owned when a 4 cost cascade cascaded into Land's Edge. I had another tutor in hand, so any sort of tutor would give me the combo. I drew lands. He eventually assembled a good 20 mana from Cabal Coffers and Gilded Lotus. He had Necropotence, and was frantically drawing cards to find an answer. He had a Hatred for a large amount on a Skeletal Vampire, but i had 2 lands to make him regen and take it out of combat. He got down to 4 life trying to find answers. I drew a land ofc, so i could take him down to 2 life. Next turn he aimed a 20 point consume spirit at me. close!
So my overall record is 5/6/0. It's decent, not great. I'll also note that this is the record of a not very good player, i'm fairly new to competitive magic (I've played magic for a while, but you don't get much experience from years of playing games where he with 4 bomby rares in their deck, and he who doesn't forget to attack wins). Also, this is a fairly preliminary decklist.
I am going to refine the decklist a little more. One thing I know, Bounce lands are OUT. Against the Sygg deck and against the Braids deck, i lost a turn due to Rancid Earth and Strip Mine on the bounce land. If i remember, had i not had those tempo losses, I had a good shot of winning either of those games. I do need more utility lands. Maze of Ith and Quicksand were the first 2 that popped into my head, and due to exam prep i have not had the time to get a full list of utility lands.
Sometime I switched out Child of Alara for Sliver Queen. its close. Neither of them has yet to do anything but soak up counterspells. However, I often have tons of spare mana, as I'm playing my general when I'm out of stuff to do. Child of Alara is cool, but doesn't dominate the board. Sliver Queen alone can buy me tons of time by endless chump blockers, and I can imagine turning around and doing a fine offensive. I don't have any way to bin the Child, so its at THEIR mercy whether he dies most of the time. Also Sliver Queen is a pet card of mine.
I will note that on the posted decklist, the amount of utility lands is a bit unncecesary, for instance I dont really have a use for Oasis. I do need to up the utility land count though. I will say, even with all the lands, mana is rough on the deck. I often feel the need to either turn 3-4 Seismic ASsault, which is rough on mana, or play Swans and Assault on the same turn. I need more then 40+ lands just to produce colored mana. Infact, I think at least in my list I will try using maybe about 1/3-1/2 of the utility lands posted. I had intended, and still due, to pimp out the deck with utility lands, but I do worry about the manabase. However thanks for compiling so many utility lands, I have quite a list to choose from!
A main problem I've faced is counter spells, especially recurring ones. Glen Elendra Archmage I faced in 2 games, and forbid pretty much owned me in 2 games. I'm thinking about Mishra's Helix. If it lands, I can procede to tap them out EOT whenever I want to combo. Only problem is it is unfortunate they can counter that. I want a card
4U Instant: Tap all lands target opponent controlls. If they counter it, then they may be tapped out for my combo. With Identity Theft and Helix, they counter the spell, then are ready again next turn. Most effects like that however cost 4 or less.
One unfortunate thing about making the deck more resilient is that Ad Nauseam becomes less and less likely a kill. I need High cost cards, to avoid cascade, but that makes Ad Nauseam less and less likely. However, its a price I'm willing to play.
My impression about playing the deck is that playing normal tutors is the simplest way, and most consistent way. Mystical TUtor even has been excellent for me, you cascade into it, and fetch a Demonic Tutor. Beseech the Queen is a good idea, I think i'll try it. I'll also try the weak Grim Tutor, a tutor is a tutor. Heck, I may try Personal Tutor. It fetches Demonic. Sterling Grove might even be worth a shot. It can protect Seismic Assault, but more importantly, it can fetch it.
And a rules question, does Insidious Dreams work with Cascade? I don't think you can pay the X, so I won't add it because if I cascade into it it'll be dead. Its unfortunate if it doesnt, because that'd be a perfect card for the deck.
Here's some changes
+Grim, Personal Tutor. Beseech the Queen. Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Kor HAven, Treetop Village, Tolaria West, Mishra's Factory, Krosan Verge, Forbidding Watchtwoer, Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, Stalking Stones
-Lands.
Whew, long post! I think thats the changes I'll make for now. I'm definetly going to keep evolving the deck, and I'll try to play test games with it. I probably will end up with more utility lands, but I want to try some games with this many, then see how its going. From there, I'll try adding a couple more, etc etc. Here's the newest list (I'll put it in the original post aswell for newcomer's to the thread).
4U Instant: Tap all lands target opponent controlls. If they counter it, then they may be tapped out for my combo. With Identity Theft and Helix, they counter the spell, then are ready again next turn. Most effects like that however cost 4 or less.
I believe I can one-up you here. Mana Short fits the need to have for one generic less.
I have been playing the original list you posted. It just wasn't consistant enough to be viable.
I think both of you really didn't read what I said. The reason I need it to be 5cc is because i don't want to cascade into it. The deck works mostly based on the fact that if I play a Bloodbraid Elf, nearly all the cards i cascade into will find me a combo piece. I don't want to cascade into a manashort. Otherwise, there are good options, I actually wanted a 5 mana cost mana short, i guess I didn't mention that in the post =p.
I guess its too bad a time for this thread, I'm not able to get many games in bc Im starting exams.
I am surprised your saying its not consistent enough to be viable. It's extremely consistent, it is just very fragile (maybe to you thats what inconsistent means, but at least for the way I use those words their quite different). Due to the cascade and tutors, I don't have much problem killing turn 5-6. Thats why, any game where they havn't had considerable disruption, i tend to win. A large downfall of this deck is how popular disruptive decks are in 1v1 EDH, which makes sense. Especially, U and B's popularity, 2 of the most disruptive colors. I'm not blaming the deck's problems on "well i'm facing disruptive decks/bad matchups", because unfortunately, 1v1 EDH as far as I've seen at least online seems to be pretty fraught with disruptive decks. Well I will face a Rhys deck... and good times will be had.
Where's Gifts Ungiven? I'd add in a Restock so you could tutor for Restock, Regrowth, Swans and Assault or if your combo has been disrupted you can get Worm Harvest. As far as ways to protect your combo, my favorite is City of Solitude. It's 3cc which is a shame but your opponents have to just sit there while you combo ( unless they have a Willbender ).
Shows how unrefined this deck is, can't believe i didn't add Gifts Ungiven. It might be banned, but i'll use it til thin.
Got another game in with revised version.
Jhoira of the Ghitu: THis was a guy who actually read the forum and had seen the deck. Not good for me! He wasn't able to get a second U mana for a while, which helped. In the mean time, he had Nevinyrral's Disk, which i baited with a Swans, and he blew to kill the swans. He used Jhoira to suspend Decree of Silence which was pretty much GG if it landed, so i had a clock. He then imprinted Counterspell on Isachron scepter. Yay me! (He was doing other stuff, but thats the important stuff). I had a tutor heavy hand, so i sculpted the perfect hand, before playing Ad Nauseam EOT before Decree came, drew 30+ cards, then played Seismic Assault, then Land's Edge, for the win. So yes, this is an easily disruptable deck. But it doesn't fold over to a bit of disruption. That game i had to face Isochron Scepter with Counterspell and a Nevinyrral's Disk, both of which really hurt the combo.
It is feeling a bit better, there's more spells per hand, which helps, i often get 3 spell hands which help the vulnerability
Thanks for all the responses. The last two cards, Abundance and Guided Passage, both I'm on the fence about. Guided PAssage I may not include due to purely ease of use reasons, its not amazing, and its hard logistically on MWS to wait for your opponent to slowly pick his choices. Abundance is nice, but sortra slow.
I did remember one card thats perfect, Mana Echoes. its the perfect alt win condition (with Sliver queen I make infinite slivers). Especially, game 1, I tutor into Mana Echoes, they lose to it. Oh I see what your doing, using cascade into tutors into Mana Echoes. Ok... they then of course let a Seismic assault land game 2, ready for the mana echoes, and I Ad Nauseam EOT and burn em for 40. At least thats how one match went.
Thread lost a bit of its life, this may be a final bump =p (I held off posting a tad to make the bump count) but you may see me still trying the deck on MWS. Hopefully you won't recognize it, I win a lot more Game one then game two's ^^
I built a Cascade Swans EDH deck after seeing this. It is NOT fun though ... yea,yea I get that part. ( I hear that all the time) But who should be having the fun with a deck like this anyway? Better not be your opponent sitting across from you asking why so many lands in there? You take for ever with your turns! Will I get to have another turn? I will post the hanus version I built. It is loosely based on your first post, but I had to make some very necessary changes. It is a long deck list and I will need time to give explanations as to the changes. ~But I think I fixed it, really I did?~
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1 [LRW] Vivid Creek
1 [LRW] Vivid Grove
1 [TE] Reflecting Pool
1 [6E] City of Brass
1 [ON] Grand Coliseum
1 [LRW] Vivid Crag
1 [10E] Sulfurous Springs
1 [9E] Underground River
1 [A] Badlands
1 [DIS] Blood Crypt
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Bayou
1 [U] Scrubland
1 [B] Tundra
1 [R] Taiga
1 [B] Plateau
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [B] Savannah
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [GP] Stomping Ground
2 [TE] Mountain (1)
1 [RAV] Swamp (3)
1 [ST] Forest (1)
1 [APL] Plains (2)
1 [6E] Island (4)
1 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
1 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
1 [CFX] Rupture Spire
1 [WL] Gemstone Mine
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ALA] Savage Lands
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [9E] Quicksand
1 [ALA] Seaside Citadel
1 [ALA] Jungle Shrine
1 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
1 [GP] Steam Vents
1 [MI] Grasslands
1 [MI] Mountain Valley
1 [MI] Rocky Tar Pit
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
1 [MI] Flood Plain
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [GP] Godless Shrine
1 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
1 [RAV] Temple Garden
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
1 [FUT] Graven Cairns
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
1 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
1 [MI] Bad River
1 [SHM] Mystic Gate
1 [EVE] Rugged Prairie
1 [EVE] Twilight Mire
1 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
1 [10E] Brushland
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [10E] Treetop Village
1 [TE] Stalking Stones
1 [NE] Kor Haven
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
1 [AQ] Strip Mine (2)
1 [10E] Forbidding Watchtower
1 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [ARB] Kathari Remnant
1 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
1 [ARB] Enlisted Wurm
1 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll
1 [LRW] Liliana Vess
// Spells
1 [R] Regrowth
1 [ARB] Ardent Plea
1 [MI] Mystical Tutor
1 [B] Demonic Tutor
1 [EX] Seismic Assault
1 [ARB] Bituminous Blast
1 [ARB] Captured Sunlight
1 [ARB] Violent Outburst
1 [6E] Vampiric Tutor
1 [P3] Imperial Seal
1 [9E] Diabolic Tutor
1 [ARB] Deny Reality
1 [ARB] Stormcaller's Boon
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [CH] Land's Edge
1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
1 [ARB] Identity Crisis
1 [SHM] Beseech the Queen
1 [ST] Grim Tutor
1 [PT] Personal Tutor
1 [IN] Restock
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
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The recent success of Cascade Swans at GP Barcelona made me really itch to make an EDH version of it. For those who don't know, here's how the deck works.
The player plays 40+ lands, along with Seismic Assault, Swans of Bryn Agroll, and various cascade cards such as Bloodbraid Elf, Deny Reality, Bitultimous Blast, and Captured Sunlight. The player uses cascade to get an Assault and Swans into play (the Assault is the only 3 cost card in the deck, so you'll always find a Assault off a 4 cost cascade card. a 5 cost cascade card will find you a swans, an assault, or a card to cascade into an assault). With both in play, the player chucks lands at the Swan, drawing more lands, then eventually hurls ten lands to the dome.
Here's the list I've come up with.
1 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
1 [LRW] Vivid Creek
1 [LRW] Vivid Grove
1 [TE] Reflecting Pool
1 [6E] City of Brass
1 [ON] Grand Coliseum
1 [LRW] Vivid Crag
1 [10E] Brushland
1 [10E] Sulfurous Springs
1 [9E] Underground River
1 [CS] Boreal Shelf
1 [CS] Frost Marsh
1 [CS] Highland Weald
1 [A] Badlands
1 [DIS] Blood Crypt
1 [b] Underground Sea
1 [b] Bayou
1 [u] Scrubland
1 [b] Tundra
1 [R] Taiga
1 [b] Plateau
1 [b] Volcanic Island
1 [b] Savannah
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [TE] Mountain (1)
3 [RAV] Swamp (3)
1 [ST] Forest (1)
1 [APL] Plains (2)
1 [6E] Island (4)
1 [DIS] Simic Growth Chamber
1 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
1 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
1 [CS] Tresserhorn Sinks
1 [RAV] Boros Garrison
1 [CFX] Rupture Spire
1 [WL] Gemstone Mine
1 [DIS] Azorius Chancery
1 [RAV] Selesnya Sanctuary
1 [RAV] Dimir Aqueduct
1 [GP] Gruul Turf
1 [GP] Izzet Boilerworks
1 [GP] Orzhov Basilica
1 [DIS] Rakdos Carnarium
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ALA] Savage Lands
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [9E] Quicksand
1 [ALA] Seaside Citadel
1 [ALA] Jungle Shrine
1 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
1 [GP] Steam Vents
1 [MI] Grasslands
1 [MI] Mountain Valley
1 [MI] Rocky Tar Pit
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
1 [MI] Flood Plain
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [GP] Godless Shrine
1 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
1 [RAV] Temple Garden
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
1 [FUT] Graven Cairns
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
1 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
1 [EVE] Flooded Grove
1 [MI] Bad River
1 [SHM] Mystic Gate
1 [EVE] Rugged Prairie
1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
1 [EVE] Twilight Mire
1 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
1 [ARB] Kathari Remnant
1 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
1 [ARB] Enlisted Wurm
1 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll
// Spells
1 [R] Regrowth
1 [ARB] Ardent Plea
1 [MI] Mystical Tutor
1 [b] Demonic Tutor
1 [EX] Seismic Assault
1 [ARB] Bituminous Blast
1 [ARB] Captured Sunlight
1 [ARB] Violent Outburst
1 [6E] Vampiric Tutor
1 [P3] Imperial Seal
1 [9E] Diabolic Tutor
1 [ARB] Deny Reality
1 [ARB] Stormcaller's Boon
[B]NOTE: THIS IS FOR SINGLE PLAYER.[/B] It would require a bit more work to get the 40 lands neeeded to take out 2 players, etc etc.It might work, but i'm building this to beat single player.
From goldfishing, the deck appears solid. The combo works well. If i get both cards in play and a land in hand, there is a very very very little chance that I will fizzle. If you only have 1 land in hand, to fizzle you'd need to hit 2 consecutive cards, the first 2 cards, that weren't lands. And if thats so, you wait til another turn.
I knew I needed a way to fetch back the combo against counters, so i used Regrowth. WHats handy about regrowth is that its decent to cascade into without a cascade piece in the GY. Sometimes it'll be useless, but its nice if you then use it to return another cascade spell, keeping the loop going.
Child of Alara was chosen because it can hold the fort well. I needed a 5c general, and i like since a lot of my deck is lands, it seemed fitting that i use a general that was sorta lopsided towards me anyways.
My only worries for the deck are counters. And ofc other ways of killing my stuff.
[B]ALSO: [/B]Just so you know, this deck is nice because if they don't know what your up to, they might not kill the swans right away. If they let the Assault resolve, its game. This deck can win at instant speed, so them trying to kill the Swans in response won't work (I'll just combo off in response to their removal spell).
Any tips on tutors or cards would be most welcome. Mostly, i need more ways to protect the combo. Its very fragile right now, a well times Swords (in respoonse to the Assault being cast) and etc owns the combo. This deck isn't good at winning without the combo. I was thinking of maybe adding some retrace? stuff. Dunno. I'd love to hear suggestions.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
Ad Nauseum should go in here though.
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Ardent Plea, Regrowth, Mystical Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Violent Outburst, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, would all like a word with you....
Of those, Regrowth, Mystical Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Imperial Seal will all end your cascade chain... Granted most of them will allow you to tutor for the Seismic Assault, but that kind of isn't the point.
And I have to agree, this deck looks to be TOO consistent to be fun...
Well the quote is from my description of the deck thats played in standard. I'm forced to use Ardent Plea and stuff because its ofc singleton.
Actually, of the cards you listed... ONLY regrowth and Mystical tutor don't get me a combo piece, and the 3 cost cascade cards find me one of the tutors. Mystical Tutor simply makes it 1 turn longer, as you fetch Demonic Tutor (or another Cascade I suppose). If
And yea, this deck isn't a "fun" EDH Deck to play. I don't plan to build this in RL (lol as if I could with the lands in there). I just wanted to try and make a deck like this. I figured it might be good for some online games of EDH. Obviously, even if this would work in multiplayer it'd be a very unfun deck to play or play against (though I have to say, while its incredibly consistent, its very easy to disrupt).
I completely forgot about Ad Nauseam, thats a good idea. With 40 life in EDH, its a great alt win con to swans (either should get me the 20 lands).
After my first match with an opponent online, i have a couple of good changes. He was running a classic Mono U EDH deck, really the deck this deck hates, so it was a good experience. I won the first game, he had a bunch of counters but i used child of alara and other stuff to draw out counters, he even took control of my swans, but i dropped Assault and GG. G2 he got glen elendra archmage out, which obviously owns my deck. I almost wore him out of counters, but he had the force for my assault and followed it up with Tormod's Crypt. Third game i drew 30 cards of Ad Nauseam, but was unable to land an Assault. He then countered the Regrowth.
He suggested Land's End, which is perfect. Assault #2! Well.. with Ad Nauseam. Its not perfect, but takes away some of the fragility of the combo. I thought about Lightning Storm, but if you cascade into it without a full hand, its useless.
I had forgotten to add in a card to stop control players, one that I could tutor for. I decided it was between Head Games and Identity Crisis, i'll try identity crisis. I thought of Defense Grid, but its low CC so I could cascade into it.
I'm also going to throw in Worm Harvest as an alt win. Countryside Crusher was cascade-into-able, and if it gets stolen after a big pump... ouch. Worm Harvest is very slow if I don't have a way to stock up my graveyard like a massive Ad Nauseam, but given time is hard to stop. Each casting gets better and better. Its not great, but its decent.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
-81 lands... Too much. Mulled several times into hand fulls (literally) of land. Maybe cutting to 70 or so is better.
-Land's Edge is a definate need. 1 Assault is too few.
-It needs another win mech. Swans combo is great and all, but not gonna win you every game.
-More protection. The combo is too fragile and one wipe away with a counter means you lose.
-Ad Nauseum seems good, but not while playing land's edge. That could spell gg for you, not them.
If you could post a newer list, that'd be great too.
Thanks to the boyz at Kracked Graphics
GBGB AggroGB
Modern
GBRWDeath's ShadowGBRW
UBWRAffinityUBWR
GRTitanshiftGR
URBGrixis ControlURB
Legacy
BUGTrue Name BUGBUG
UBRGrixis DelverUBR
BUGShardless BUGBUG
BUGElvesBUG
Cascaders: 11
1x Kathari Remnant
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Enlisted Wurm
1x Bituminous Blast
1x Captured Sunlight
1x Violent Outburst
1x Stormcaller's Boon
1x Ardent Plea
1x Demonic Dread
1x Deny Reality
1x Enigma Sphinx
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Regrowth
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Beseech the Queen
=== Wincons [4] ===
Combo: 2
1x Swans of Bryn Argoll
1x Seismic Assault
1x Land's Edge
1x Ad Nauseam
=== Lands [78] ===
Utility: 22
1x Maze of Ith
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Dust Bowl
1x Strip Mine
1x Wasteland
1x Kor Haven
1x Urza's Factory
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Cabal Pit
1x Ice Floe
1x Prahv, Spires of Order
1x Oasis
1x Quicksand
1x Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Halls of Mist
1x Island of Wak-Wak
1x Kher Keep
1x Springjack Pasture
1x Desert
1x Tolaria West
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mutavault
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Forbidding Watchtower
1x Ghitu Encampment
1x Nantuko Monastery
1x Stalking Stones
1x Treetop Village
1x Zoetic Cavern
1x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Dark Depths
1x Tomb of Urami
1x Spawning Pool
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
1x Polluted Delta
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Badlands
1x Bayou
1x Plateau
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Taiga
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Blood Crypt
1x Breeding Pool
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
1x Watery Grave
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Meadow
1x City of Brass
1x Grand Coliseum
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Child of Alara
That seems about right. I think that landbase includes just about all playable man-lands in the format, as well as most of the good utility lands. The only problem I have with this is that it might get colourscrewed, but I added vivids to try to avoid that. The other concern is that it might be a turn slower because a lot of the lands come into play tapped. I still believe that this is quite good for the landbase. What do you think?
EDIT: Also, what do you think of cutting something for the Mouth of Ronom, as I think the manabase could support it if we switched all the basic lands for snow-covered ones. Then again, I don't want to search for those with fetches, either..
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Just wondering, which list did you use? Did it contain Land's Edge/Identity Theft or not? Because addressing your concerns depends on which list you used. Just so people can see what I've been through, I'll admit my playtesting (on MWS) has been fairly sparse. This is what I've played
Uyo, Silent Prophet (mono U control)
Won first game after fighting through some counters. Once he knew what I was doing, lost second game due to counter on Assault followed by Trinket Mage for Tormod's Crypt to remove Assault from the game. Third game I nearly got there, fighting through Glen Elendra Archmage and a Counterspell, but was Foiled by Force of Will.
(made first round of changes)
Sygg, River Cutthroat: (UB Aggro). Won g1 turn 5 after he hit me for a few points of damage, won g2 t6 after he hit me for a few points of damage. Not much to talk about.
'
Sygg, River Cutthroat: (another player): Won game 1 without much problem. G2, i got my bounce land Strip Mined, then was followed up by t4 (he was on the draw) Crucible to my i think 2 lands. I didn't have a way to beat the Crucible lock. G3, mull to 5, i had a good hand though, however he soon had Sygg and Jace out, so he could draw 3 cards a turn, and could Forbid lock me.
Braids, Cabal Minion: Game 1, again I won and he couldn't stop me. He had a turn 3 braids (after t2 Bitterblossom), which would have owned me, however I dropped Seismic assault, meaning Braids couldn't stick. G2, had a mull to 4, he had some dudes, and was laying the beat down. I eventually drew out of it. He had searched up an O ring (Mono B enchantment destruction!) but I drew it out, and then Ad Nauseamed at 20 life. In the next 5 cards I drew Enlisted Wurm, Identity Crisis, Wurm Harvest and 2 lands. I wasn't able to go anywhere. G3 was TRULY Epic. I kept a decent 6 card hand, but got owned when a 4 cost cascade cascaded into Land's Edge. I had another tutor in hand, so any sort of tutor would give me the combo. I drew lands. He eventually assembled a good 20 mana from Cabal Coffers and Gilded Lotus. He had Necropotence, and was frantically drawing cards to find an answer. He had a Hatred for a large amount on a Skeletal Vampire, but i had 2 lands to make him regen and take it out of combat. He got down to 4 life trying to find answers. I drew a land ofc, so i could take him down to 2 life. Next turn he aimed a 20 point consume spirit at me. close!
So my overall record is 5/6/0. It's decent, not great. I'll also note that this is the record of a not very good player, i'm fairly new to competitive magic (I've played magic for a while, but you don't get much experience from years of playing games where he with 4 bomby rares in their deck, and he who doesn't forget to attack wins). Also, this is a fairly preliminary decklist.
I am going to refine the decklist a little more. One thing I know, Bounce lands are OUT. Against the Sygg deck and against the Braids deck, i lost a turn due to Rancid Earth and Strip Mine on the bounce land. If i remember, had i not had those tempo losses, I had a good shot of winning either of those games. I do need more utility lands. Maze of Ith and Quicksand were the first 2 that popped into my head, and due to exam prep i have not had the time to get a full list of utility lands.
Sometime I switched out Child of Alara for Sliver Queen. its close. Neither of them has yet to do anything but soak up counterspells. However, I often have tons of spare mana, as I'm playing my general when I'm out of stuff to do. Child of Alara is cool, but doesn't dominate the board. Sliver Queen alone can buy me tons of time by endless chump blockers, and I can imagine turning around and doing a fine offensive. I don't have any way to bin the Child, so its at THEIR mercy whether he dies most of the time. Also Sliver Queen is a pet card of mine.
I will note that on the posted decklist, the amount of utility lands is a bit unncecesary, for instance I dont really have a use for Oasis. I do need to up the utility land count though. I will say, even with all the lands, mana is rough on the deck. I often feel the need to either turn 3-4 Seismic ASsault, which is rough on mana, or play Swans and Assault on the same turn. I need more then 40+ lands just to produce colored mana. Infact, I think at least in my list I will try using maybe about 1/3-1/2 of the utility lands posted. I had intended, and still due, to pimp out the deck with utility lands, but I do worry about the manabase. However thanks for compiling so many utility lands, I have quite a list to choose from!
A main problem I've faced is counter spells, especially recurring ones. Glen Elendra Archmage I faced in 2 games, and forbid pretty much owned me in 2 games. I'm thinking about Mishra's Helix. If it lands, I can procede to tap them out EOT whenever I want to combo. Only problem is it is unfortunate they can counter that. I want a card
4U Instant: Tap all lands target opponent controlls. If they counter it, then they may be tapped out for my combo. With Identity Theft and Helix, they counter the spell, then are ready again next turn. Most effects like that however cost 4 or less.
One unfortunate thing about making the deck more resilient is that Ad Nauseam becomes less and less likely a kill. I need High cost cards, to avoid cascade, but that makes Ad Nauseam less and less likely. However, its a price I'm willing to play.
My impression about playing the deck is that playing normal tutors is the simplest way, and most consistent way. Mystical TUtor even has been excellent for me, you cascade into it, and fetch a Demonic Tutor. Beseech the Queen is a good idea, I think i'll try it. I'll also try the weak Grim Tutor, a tutor is a tutor. Heck, I may try Personal Tutor. It fetches Demonic. Sterling Grove might even be worth a shot. It can protect Seismic Assault, but more importantly, it can fetch it.
And a rules question, does Insidious Dreams work with Cascade? I don't think you can pay the X, so I won't add it because if I cascade into it it'll be dead. Its unfortunate if it doesnt, because that'd be a perfect card for the deck.
Here's some changes
+Grim, Personal Tutor. Beseech the Queen. Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Kor HAven, Treetop Village, Tolaria West, Mishra's Factory, Krosan Verge, Forbidding Watchtwoer, Strip Mine, Dust Bowl, Stalking Stones
-Lands.
Whew, long post! I think thats the changes I'll make for now. I'm definetly going to keep evolving the deck, and I'll try to play test games with it. I probably will end up with more utility lands, but I want to try some games with this many, then see how its going. From there, I'll try adding a couple more, etc etc. Here's the newest list (I'll put it in the original post aswell for newcomer's to the thread).
1 [LRW] Vivid Creek
1 [LRW] Vivid Grove
1 [TE] Reflecting Pool
1 [6E] City of Brass
1 [ON] Grand Coliseum
1 [LRW] Vivid Crag
1 [10E] Sulfurous Springs
1 [9E] Underground River
1 [A] Badlands
1 [DIS] Blood Crypt
1 [b] Underground Sea
1 [b] Bayou
1 [u] Scrubland
1 [b] Tundra
1 [R] Taiga
1 [b] Plateau
1 [b] Volcanic Island
1 [b] Savannah
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [GP] Stomping Ground
2 [TE] Mountain (1)
1 [RAV] Swamp (3)
1 [ST] Forest (1)
1 [APL] Plains (2)
1 [6E] Island (4)
1 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
1 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
1 [CFX] Rupture Spire
1 [WL] Gemstone Mine
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ALA] Savage Lands
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [9E] Quicksand
1 [ALA] Seaside Citadel
1 [ALA] Jungle Shrine
1 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
1 [GP] Steam Vents
1 [MI] Grasslands
1 [MI] Mountain Valley
1 [MI] Rocky Tar Pit
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
1 [MI] Flood Plain
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [GP] Godless Shrine
1 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
1 [RAV] Temple Garden
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
1 [FUT] Graven Cairns
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
1 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
1 [MI] Bad River
1 [SHM] Mystic Gate
1 [EVE] Rugged Prairie
1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
1 [EVE] Twilight Mire
1 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
1 [10E] Brushland
1 [JU] Krosan Verge
1 [NE] Kor Haven
1 [TE] Stalking Stones
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
1 [AQ] Strip Mine (2)
1 [10E] Forbidding Watchtower
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [10E] Treetop Village
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [ARB] Kathari Remnant
1 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
1 [ARB] Enlisted Wurm
1 [SHM] Swans of Bryn Argoll
1 [LRW] Liliana Vess
// Spells
1 [R] Regrowth
1 [ARB] Ardent Plea
1 [MI] Mystical Tutor
1 [b] Demonic Tutor
1 [EX] Seismic Assault
1 [ARB] Bituminous Blast
1 [ARB] Captured Sunlight
1 [ARB] Violent Outburst
1 [6E] Vampiric Tutor
1 [P3] Imperial Seal
1 [9E] Diabolic Tutor
1 [ARB] Deny Reality
1 [ARB] Stormcaller's Boon
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
1 [CH] Land's Edge
1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
1 [ARB] Identity Crisis
1 [PT] Personal Tutor
1 [ST] Grim Tutor
1 [SHM] Beseech the Queen
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
I believe I can one-up you here. Mana Short fits the need to have for one generic less.
I have been playing the original list you posted. It just wasn't consistant enough to be viable.
Thanks to the boyz at Kracked Graphics
Also, to protect your combo from countermagic there is:
City of Solitude
Abeyance
Orim's Chant
Defense Grid
Pact of Negation (who cares if you cant pay next upkeep if you win before then?)
I guess its too bad a time for this thread, I'm not able to get many games in bc Im starting exams.
I am surprised your saying its not consistent enough to be viable. It's extremely consistent, it is just very fragile (maybe to you thats what inconsistent means, but at least for the way I use those words their quite different). Due to the cascade and tutors, I don't have much problem killing turn 5-6. Thats why, any game where they havn't had considerable disruption, i tend to win. A large downfall of this deck is how popular disruptive decks are in 1v1 EDH, which makes sense. Especially, U and B's popularity, 2 of the most disruptive colors. I'm not blaming the deck's problems on "well i'm facing disruptive decks/bad matchups", because unfortunately, 1v1 EDH as far as I've seen at least online seems to be pretty fraught with disruptive decks. Well I will face a Rhys deck... and good times will be had.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
Got another game in with revised version.
Jhoira of the Ghitu: THis was a guy who actually read the forum and had seen the deck. Not good for me! He wasn't able to get a second U mana for a while, which helped. In the mean time, he had Nevinyrral's Disk, which i baited with a Swans, and he blew to kill the swans. He used Jhoira to suspend Decree of Silence which was pretty much GG if it landed, so i had a clock. He then imprinted Counterspell on Isachron scepter. Yay me! (He was doing other stuff, but thats the important stuff). I had a tutor heavy hand, so i sculpted the perfect hand, before playing Ad Nauseam EOT before Decree came, drew 30+ cards, then played Seismic Assault, then Land's Edge, for the win. So yes, this is an easily disruptable deck. But it doesn't fold over to a bit of disruption. That game i had to face Isochron Scepter with Counterspell and a Nevinyrral's Disk, both of which really hurt the combo.
It is feeling a bit better, there's more spells per hand, which helps, i often get 3 spell hands which help the vulnerability
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!
Standard
Goblins
Extended
Nothing
Legacy
Spring tide
MY twitter
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I did remember one card thats perfect, Mana Echoes. its the perfect alt win condition (with Sliver queen I make infinite slivers). Especially, game 1, I tutor into Mana Echoes, they lose to it. Oh I see what your doing, using cascade into tutors into Mana Echoes. Ok... they then of course let a Seismic assault land game 2, ready for the mana echoes, and I Ad Nauseam EOT and burn em for 40. At least thats how one match went.
Thread lost a bit of its life, this may be a final bump =p (I held off posting a tad to make the bump count) but you may see me still trying the deck on MWS. Hopefully you won't recognize it, I win a lot more Game one then game two's ^^
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios!