Am I right in thinking that this circumvents the additional 2* added to a General's cost? If so, I think it probably needs to be banned in the format, as it will allow rediculous 5-color nonsense to rule (imagine Progenitus with this craziness). If I'm wrong, please explain to me why I am? I don't mind having my local group axe it, but just thought I should share.
I can't quote a rule for this, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't chance the 2+ cost as it functions more like an additional cost. My friend used this card in his Progenitus EDH deck and it was good but definitely not broken.
I can't quote a rule for this, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't chance the 2+ cost as it functions more like an additional cost. My friend used this card in his Progenitus EDH deck and it was good but definitely not broken.
Quote from From the official EDH rules: »
While a General is removed from the game, it may be played. As an additional cost to play your General this way, you must pay 2 for each previous time you have played it this way.[/quote)
[quote=From the Gatherer:]12/1/2004This is an alternative cost to play a spell.
Thoughts? I think these are the only relevant rulings on the matter to help us decide. I guess the question becomes a matter of additional costs being added after an alternative costs? (Please forgive me for any confusion, poor grammer, etc. I am so frickin tired.)
While cool, this only effects a very small amount of decks as it can only be used in 5color.
Though i do think it doesnt work. Because isnt if there is a Feroz's Ban" target="blank">Feroz's Ban in play i still have to pay the 2 if i Evoke a Shriekmaw right?
Fist of the Suns seems reasonable. You have to be playing 5 color, AND you have to draw Fist of the Suns. A 10% chance of getting a card that makes your Progenitus deck a little bit better doesn't seem that huge. I'd rather face down Progenitus/Fist than Tinker/Titan (not going to happen now, I know), or Kiki/Colossus.
It will not circumvent the additional cost to replay your general anymore than it would let you get kicker's for free. It still means turn 5 Progenitus with an accelerant, as well as 5 mana for Conflux or Decree of Pain, but it's not degenerate.
Fist of Suns gives your spells an alternative cost. Playing your general additional times is an additional cost. From rule 409.1f
The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost (as determined in rule 409.1b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
we can see that you choose the additional cost of WUBRG, then add any additional costs, like the 2 to replay the general.
Am I right in thinking that this circumvents the additional 2* added to a General's cost? If so, I think it probably needs to be banned in the format, as it will allow rediculous 5-color nonsense to rule (imagine Progenitus with this craziness). If I'm wrong, please explain to me why I am? I don't mind having my local group axe it, but just thought I should share.
Thoughts? I think these are the only relevant rulings on the matter to help us decide. I guess the question becomes a matter of additional costs being added after an alternative costs? (Please forgive me for any confusion, poor grammer, etc. I am so frickin tired.)
Though i do think it doesnt work. Because isnt if there is a Feroz's Ban" target="blank">Feroz's Ban in play i still have to pay the 2 if i Evoke a Shriekmaw right?
we can see that you choose the additional cost of WUBRG, then add any additional costs, like the 2 to replay the general.