Hello! This is my first post on this, altough i've been a long follower of the forums on the website.
So i've got a bit of problem. And the problem is they use plenty of interaction to destroy plenty of stuff, and they run their decks like a modern decks with just a few adjustments to the setting. The thing is if run a full multiplayer focused deck, it suffers from being slow in their setting.
I play multiplayer with 3 friends that have a tendency to play decks that are modern focused. One on them uses a semi-humans build and jund.( both are budget builds). The other uses jund with the whole nine yards. Lotv, Dark confidant, and what not. He alsos shifts with a bant that runs typical bant things. (mirran crusader/ noble hierach vendillion clique with cryptic command.)
My doubt is when I play a more multiplayer centric deck it tends to falldown to this kind of interaction's.
I have some cards that i have seen do plenty of work like blasphemous act. Gray merchant of asphodel, Exsanguinate, Crackling Doom. I also recently purchased 4x sudden demise; 2x repercussion to use.
Not my type of deck so I have little to suggest.
Some questions though.
If you think about how you want to win, and then evaluate each card you run:
Which cards disappoint (or underperform), and what’s your explanation for that?
Do you run out of (useful) plays first or are you killed first?
When you lost, how did your opponent win?
Which specific cards or strategies trouble your deck?
Can you describe a card you would run in this deck but you’re not sure if it exists?
Maybe we can help...
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In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Hello again. I have found out that, repercussion needs more cards and requires quite a few field of creatures to work. With only two, i want to see it by turn 3 so it can start doing work. Exsanguinate requires quite a chunck of mana. So i find that i need to build around it. Phyrexian reclamation, if it starts to go to the field and picking up creatures it eats a abrupt decay, no questions asked.
In the first few turns im trying to establish a phyrexian arena or any black card so i can put my merchant and eat away at their life with ETB of merchant. Whip adds some direct form of recursion and it's good.
a The phyrexian reclamation + phyrexian arena + Gray Merchant of Asphodel just wins, and i find that i'm trying to find those specific pieces. The alternate win with Repercussion + sudden demise doesn't always go off and it varies.
My opponents win the majority by grinding. Damage dealt with creatures and value propostions of jund, plus fielding things like Thrun with hexproof. When i take two or three hits from a scavenging ooze or vampire Knighthawk and plus other's and if don't have some devotion for gray merchant it's difficult. As it stands, I'm almost thinking of running another deck in mardu colors that I have. I have more experience with it, more cards, but the win's are still far-fetched. I'm thinking is it because a 3 way game is diferent from others fuller multiplayer games?
A good question, multiplayer with 3 players can have real multiplayer cards or have to resort to more modern focused one's?
Yarok's Fenlurker is a solid 2 drop that scales well into 3 player games and fuels devotion better than your current dorks. It's also good with Reclamation and Whip whereas your current 2 drops aren't.
At 4 CMC you have Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet which is the perfect mix of multipler goodness and Modern speed. Good body, good lifelink, good hosing, good token production, it does it all.
Thanks for the tips. Should I field 4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx since it's a black devotion deck now? I only have 2 kalitas, Traitor of Ghet but also have for the six mana slot Grave titan. I really Like that two drop! It can even do work in a single-player focused game! Since I wil change the deck that much do you people have any more ideias so i can make it better ? Thanks for the amazing feedback!
What a shame I got here after the conversion from BR. You can go a long way in those colors with Repercussion and Volley of Arrows while also running Dingus Staff with cards like Royal Assassin/Seal of Doom. Politics-wise having open mana and rattlesnake-type cards to deter attacks leaves you in a good position.
Obviously you can still do the latter in monoblack.
That being said black has all types of cards that are great for multiple opponents. If you want to go faster you can flood the board with cards like Thornbow Archer that dock each opponents' life just by attacking. If you can afford a copy, try Torment of Hailfire.
Altar of the Brood is also a great multiplayer card that goes beautifully with Bloodchief Ascension. The amount of removal it does for a single mana is fantastic. The psychological impact even more so. That being said, I would only run as many as your group can mentally handle. 1 is typically manageable, two on the battlefield might garner unwanted attackers and gets into mill territory vs card draw, three out all at once paints a target on your face, and having four out means no one can argue otherwise.
Ophiomancer is the black definition of a multiplayer rattlesnake. Sure, it isn't No Mercy, but it is 1 cmc less and can swing for damage if need be. It is starting to get on the real world expensive side, but not as expensive as No Mercy...No Mercy and Dingus Staff is black's personal Moat.
What a shame I got here after the conversion from BR. You can go a long way in those colors with Repercussion and Volley of Arrows while also running Dingus Staff with cards like Royal Assassin/Seal of Doom. Politics-wise having open mana and rattlesnake-type cards to deter attacks leaves you in a good position.
My point is that you're better off building a dedicated Repercussion deck than trying to mix them both together. After all, why use Black kill spells when things like Blasphemous Act accomplish the same goal while simultaneously killing anyone with 2+ creatures in play? Forbidden Orchard, Varchild's War-Riders, Humble Defector, Chain Reaction, these are the kinds of cards that you'd rather have in your Repercussion builds. He can still play the combo but it needs its own dedicated build.
So i've got a bit of problem. And the problem is they use plenty of interaction to destroy plenty of stuff, and they run their decks like a modern decks with just a few adjustments to the setting. The thing is if run a full multiplayer focused deck, it suffers from being slow in their setting.
I play multiplayer with 3 friends that have a tendency to play decks that are modern focused. One on them uses a semi-humans build and jund.( both are budget builds). The other uses jund with the whole nine yards. Lotv, Dark confidant, and what not. He alsos shifts with a bant that runs typical bant things. (mirran crusader/ noble hierach vendillion clique with cryptic command.)
My doubt is when I play a more multiplayer centric deck it tends to falldown to this kind of interaction's.
I have some cards that i have seen do plenty of work like blasphemous act. Gray merchant of asphodel, Exsanguinate, Crackling Doom. I also recently purchased 4x sudden demise; 2x repercussion to use.
To cut a long story short, this is my pretended deck :
Lands :
4x Bloodstained mire
4x Blood Crypt
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
8x swamps
6x mountain
Spells :
2x Exsanguinate
2x Blasphemous act
4x Volcanic Fallout
4x Consuming Vapors
4x Sudden demise
2x Repercussion
Enchantment:
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Whip of Erebos
4x Phyrexian Reclamation
Creatures:
4x Gray merchant of Asphodel
4x Reassembling skeleton
4x Blood Artist
I Was thinking also to use blood artist because they field many creatures.
Some questions though.
If you think about how you want to win, and then evaluate each card you run:
Which cards disappoint (or underperform), and what’s your explanation for that?
Do you run out of (useful) plays first or are you killed first?
When you lost, how did your opponent win?
Which specific cards or strategies trouble your deck?
Can you describe a card you would run in this deck but you’re not sure if it exists?
Maybe we can help...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Exsanguinate requires quite a chunck of mana. So i find that i need to build around it. Phyrexian reclamation, if it starts to go to the field and picking up creatures it eats a abrupt decay, no questions asked.
In the first few turns im trying to establish a phyrexian arena or any black card so i can put my merchant and eat away at their life with ETB of merchant. Whip adds some direct form of recursion and it's good.
a The phyrexian reclamation + phyrexian arena + Gray Merchant of Asphodel just wins, and i find that i'm trying to find those specific pieces. The alternate win with Repercussion + sudden demise doesn't always go off and it varies.
My opponents win the majority by grinding. Damage dealt with creatures and value propostions of jund, plus fielding things like Thrun with hexproof. When i take two or three hits from a scavenging ooze or vampire Knighthawk and plus other's and if don't have some devotion for gray merchant it's difficult. As it stands, I'm almost thinking of running another deck in mardu colors that I have. I have more experience with it, more cards, but the win's are still far-fetched. I'm thinking is it because a 3 way game is diferent from others fuller multiplayer games?
A good question, multiplayer with 3 players can have real multiplayer cards or have to resort to more modern focused one's?
Dark Ritual enables you to jam turn 1 Phyrexian Arenas which is a fantastic way to hit your land drops and keep up with value engines such as Bob. Dark Ritual also enables you to go heavy on the 3 drops (8-10 total) which is perfect if you want to run your own Lilianas, Ashiok, Dream Render, Nightveil Specter, Plague Engineer, etc.
Yarok's Fenlurker is a solid 2 drop that scales well into 3 player games and fuels devotion better than your current dorks. It's also good with Reclamation and Whip whereas your current 2 drops aren't.
At 4 CMC you have Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet which is the perfect mix of multipler goodness and Modern speed. Good body, good lifelink, good hosing, good token production, it does it all.
For removal you'll want things like Liliana's Triumph, Dead of Winter, Toxic Deluge, Massacre, etc. Turn 4 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet + Massacre is a brutal play vs Humans and Bant for example. Consuming Vapors is way too slow by comparison so I recommend ditching those for things that are cheaper or more powerful.
3 players is also more than enough for cards like Bloodchief Ascension and Gonti's Machinations which pair well with the Exsanguinate + Gray Merchant of Asphodel gameplan. You can't really go wrong with cards like these at the 1 CMC slot assuming that you don't opt for the Dark Ritual + heavy 3 drop route.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Just run the deck a few times in your group and tell us how everything performed.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Negative. 1-2 tops.
That's fine, Grave Titan is amazing in Dark Ritual decks.
That's easier to do once you've built the deck and have won/lost some games so you can tell us where it falls short.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Obviously you can still do the latter in monoblack.
That being said black has all types of cards that are great for multiple opponents. If you want to go faster you can flood the board with cards like Thornbow Archer that dock each opponents' life just by attacking. If you can afford a copy, try Torment of Hailfire.
Altar of the Brood is also a great multiplayer card that goes beautifully with Bloodchief Ascension. The amount of removal it does for a single mana is fantastic. The psychological impact even more so. That being said, I would only run as many as your group can mentally handle. 1 is typically manageable, two on the battlefield might garner unwanted attackers and gets into mill territory vs card draw, three out all at once paints a target on your face, and having four out means no one can argue otherwise.
Ophiomancer is the black definition of a multiplayer rattlesnake. Sure, it isn't No Mercy, but it is 1 cmc less and can swing for damage if need be. It is starting to get on the real world expensive side, but not as expensive as No Mercy...No Mercy and Dingus Staff is black's personal Moat.
My point is that you're better off building a dedicated Repercussion deck than trying to mix them both together. After all, why use Black kill spells when things like Blasphemous Act accomplish the same goal while simultaneously killing anyone with 2+ creatures in play? Forbidden Orchard, Varchild's War-Riders, Humble Defector, Chain Reaction, these are the kinds of cards that you'd rather have in your Repercussion builds. He can still play the combo but it needs its own dedicated build.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold