MTG Salvation

Disclaimer: I'm going to post the manabse that I would play but I hope that won't stop people from replacing them with budget-alternatives as needed. Exotic Orchard is almost always amazing, Trilands are legit and there's no shame in playing Guildgates or whatever if that's the only thing that you can afford. Fetchlands can also be swapped for things like Ash Barrens, Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds if the shuffle effect is required (Brainstorm decks mainly). Conversely, remove the shuffle effects and field cantrips such as Mystic Remora, Preordain and Impulse over Brainstorm and Ponder. It's only a marginal decrease in overall power and shouldn't significantly impact your win %.



This is my current, as-is Vintage deck. It's based on "what I own" as opposed to "what I wish I owned" which explains most of the notable exclusions. The basic combo of the deck is to chain Waste Not/Smothering Tithe into Dark Deal/Windfall which generates infinite everything (more-or-less). From there you can Cut // Ribbons the table out and/or win however you want to win. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Past in Flames, Yawgmoth's Will, Mnemonic Betrayal, it doesn't matter. I like Cut // Ribbons because it's sleek and easy and it's not actually vulnerable to permission because you jam a ton of Defense Grids and Silences first.

I'll note that I do own Lotus Petal, Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox and that the deck should probably be playing 1-2 copies (total) because they're fantastic ways to generate White mana on your combo turns to load up on Silences. Still, I prefer Gemstone Caverns and this deck can't afford to 2-for-1 itself too many times because ti doesn't do anything otherwise. This is why I currently don't play any but that could be wrong.

Multiplayer isn't really a "sideboard" format so I have to preboard for Flash + Protean Hulk and "Oops All Spells" decks. This is why I have 4x maindeck Leyline of the Void. It's also why I have cards like Chain of Vapor, Balance and Toxic Deluge; so that I can deal with "stuff" that would otherwise prevent me from winning. That being said interaction should definitely be added, tweaked or removed as needed.

I tend to prefer Silence over Force of Will in combo decks since you don't have often have the extra cards to pitch and Windfall decks have a bad habit of drawing people into tons of cheap/free permission which is why I use my slots on Silence and Defense Grid.

Moreover, I know that most people don't care about Vintage because they don't play it, and that's fine, because this isn't a "Vintage" deck by any stretch of the imagination. I'm only trying to showcase how you can put Gemstone Caverns, Dark Ritual, Waste Not, Dark Deal and Smothering Tithe in a deck in order to go for turn 2-3 kills. Turn 1 Gemstone Caverns + Waste Not/Dark Ritual + Smothering Tithe, turn 2 Dark Deal/Windfall is clean turn 2 win. Heck, you don't need the Gemstone Caverns or Dark Rituals either. You just have to put Waste Not, Dark Deal and Smothering Tithe into the same deck in some capacity and good things will happen.



Another way to build around Smothering Tithes is as a degenerate mana engine for Sunder/Wildfire/Upheaval decks. This one also abuses Bouncelands + Borderposts + Surveyor's Scope in order to transform the latter into a "2 mana ramp 3" so it actually has 2 overpowered mana engines at its disposal. Otherwise it's a generic Wildfire deck full of ramp, removal and win conditions so there's not much else to say about it. In terms of wins cons, use whatever you want, but I like Rite of the Raging Storm because it's fetchable off of Enlightened Tutor, resilient, survives Obliterate, survives Decree of Annihilation, etc. You can still things like Oblivion Sower and Sundering Titan since they work fine but I'm a huge fan of the Rite.

Other relevant cards for the deck include things like Ancient Tomb, Sandstone Needle, Land Tax, Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, Blood Moon, Armageddon, Sublime Exhalation and Blasphemous Act. Land Tax loves Borderposts and Sandstone Needle is fantastic with Surveyor's Scope so I want to plug those hard

Win conditions could be things like Luminarch Ascension, Ember Swallower, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Chandra, Flamecaller, Wurmcoil Engine, Inferno Titan, Oblivion Sower, Approach of the Second Sun and Sundering Titan.



This deck showcases one of the more broken cards in RAV in Spear Spewer. Turn 1 Spear Spewer into turn 2 Keen Sense is obscene because from there you can bury the table with sheer card advantage. This deck is looking to burn the table down asap but you can also built it more Midrange-y if you prefer something slower.

Splashing Blue enables you to add things like Curiosity, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Spell Pierce, Dive Down, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Ophidian Eye, Foil and Force of Will. But mainly Curiosity :).

Other solid creatures includes things like Harsh Mentor, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Zo-Zu the Punisher and Scab-Clan Berserker.

Other fantastic spells for the list includes Manamorphose, Price of Progress, Acidic Soil and Fiery Confluence.



This is a generic Stasis + Smothering Tithe deck that seeking to lock your adversaries out of the game with Frozen Aether while sitting behind Counterspell protection. The deck wins through boredom and/or drawing into cards like Teferi, Hero of Dominaria/Approach of the Second Sun which are mostly used for "mercy" purposes. That being said Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is legitimately awesome in Stasis decks given that he acts as an additional untap outlet for your lands while also building towards a relevant ult. Moreover, since he can tuck himself with his -3 you can't be naturally decked which means that even if you Sphinx's Revelation for your entire library you don't need to rely on something janky like Elixir of Immortality which would otherwise be a dead draw. Teferi is like 50 bucks which is why I haven't included him but please play him if you happen to own some.

If you want to make the deck sleeker and faster it's worthwhile to invest in Sapphire Medallion. After all, unlike traditional mana rocks it isn't affected by Stasis and it's utterly fantastic with cards like Sphinx's Revelation, Manifold Insights, Frozen Aether, Supreme Verdict and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. This makes it an amazing turn 2 play for a deck that otherwise lacks them and it's well and truly bonkers with Manifold Insights which is (almost) always going to be drawing you into 3 Blue spells.



Bant Prison deck that abuses synergies such as:

Duskwatch Recruiter + Prophet of Kruphix
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician + Verity Circle
Verity Circle + Opposition
Verity Circle + Prophet of Kruphix (for card draw)
Opposition + Prophet of Kruphix
Opposition + Biogenic Ooze
Opposition + Prophet of Kruphix + Biogenic Ooze
Prophet of Kruphix + Biogenic Ooze

The easiest way to make this deck budget-friendlier is to cut Derevi for something like Fatestitcher and replace Noble Hierarch with Llanowar Elves or any other 1 CMC dork. It loses some potency but the deck is still perfectly playable.



Spawn of Mayhem is a stellar addition to the Rakdos, Lord of Riots/Neheb, the Eternal ramp archetype given that it's a reliable 7 damage on turn 4. The strategy speaks for itself otherwise. Cast dorks, cast Rakdos/Neheb, cast Eldrazi.

This is also a fantastic Sneak Attack deck if you want to play with those as well. After all, not only can you sneak Eldrazi into play but you can even cheat Rakdos/Neheb into play alongside some dorks in order to hardcast your Eldrazi and keep them afterward.

With respect to colorless bombs, you're not required to play Eldrazi and could easily field things like Conduit of Ruin, Oblivion Sower, Myr Battlesphere, Sundering Titan, Artisan of Kozilek, etc instead. I also want to stress that Nullstone Gargoyle and Void Winnower are both utterly insane and extremely affordable so you can always field 2-3 copies of those (alongside some Sandstone Oracles and Sundering Titans) in lieu of Eldrazi.

If you're looking for some interaction I'm a big proponent of Cut // Ribbons namely because of the disgusting synergy between Ribbons and Neheb, the Eternal. Cut is a passable removal spell and Ribbons is fantastic at fueling Rakdos/Neheb so the card always pulls its weight.

If anyone wants to replace Hunted Horror with something less risky I highly recommend Gonti's Machinations. It's 0 mana for 9 damage on your combo turns, provides some lifegain and further enables the backdoor strategy of "burn the table out." Other reasonable options include things like Spear Spewer, Thornbow Archer, Pulse Tracker and Cryptolith Fragment.



There's plenty of ways to build this deck but this is one example of how to abuse Wilderness Reclamation. The idea here is to ramp, draw cards, counter spells, Dig Through Time, etc. until you get to a stage where you're always drawing into new copies of Nexus of Fate. From there you can win with anything including something as basic as 1x Urza's Factory churning out tokens. This example has basically no defense and would need to be adjusted based on how aggressive your meta is but it's designed to beat up on slower, midrange/control/ramp decks.

You'll need to add permission and interaction as needed. Swan Song, Counterspell, Plasm Capture and Spell Swindle are all fantastic choices for the former and thing like Elephant Grass, Moment's Peace and Propaganda work for the latter. The maindeck is built to be as sleek and consistent as possible but you'll likely need to makes adjustments over time.

If you don't want to run Dig Through Time because it's banned then go ahead and run Blue Sun's Zenith or something along those lines. This deck can also easily go Bant for Sphinx's Revelation, Smothering Tithe and Sublime Exhalation or Temur for things like Expansion // Explosion and Comet Storm.



Recently, I've been testing a couple of things in these builds. Namely, the following synergies:

Turn 1 Llanowar Reborn, turn 2 Incubation Druid
Turn 2 Incubation Druid, turn 3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar/Forgotten Ancient

In order to power out counters on Incubation Druid for a gargantuan early-game mana advantage. Otherwise, the deck is the same old Hardened Scales + Winding Constrictor deck that now has access to Simic Ascendancy for a straight game win.

Other cards to consider includes things like Walking Ballista, Elvish Mystic, Retribution of the Ancients Scavenging Ooze, Hadana's Climb and Incubation // Incongruity and Kalonian Hydra. The deck doesn't need to be Black nor Blue so you could play it as Monogreen, Golgari, Simic or Sultai as desired.



This is a cookie-cutter Skullclamp deck that takes advantage of Priest of Forgotten Gods and Teysa Karlov from RNA. The broken card advantage engine of the deck is Skullclamp + Teysa Karlov but she's also insane with Zulaport Cutthroat and Grave Pact. Priest of Forgotten Gods is bonkers with Lingering Souls and/or Reassembling Skeleton and the other bodies are mostly there to flesh out your curve.

The creatures are mostly interchangeable and you can easily build towards a discard slant with Burglar Rat and Liliana's Specter. Boreas Charger could easily be Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Militia Bugler, Recruiter of the Guard, more Teysa Karlovs, anything really.

The mana is just for show and the deck could easily function with budget alternatives such as Orzhov Guildgate.

Normally I like playing cards like Anguished Unmaking in Orzhov but when you have Teysa you want your removal to be things like Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos and Martyr's Bond so that you can double up on their effects. Priest of Forgotten Gods is also stellar since it's a cheap way to control the board while fueling your engines and Living Death can also do a ton of work acting as a Wrath of God.



This deck is designed to abuse the synergy between Sapphire Medallion + Dovin's Acuity without having to rely on either card. After all, virtually all of the cards in the deck are generically useful so it still plays magic just fine even when you're not "going off" with Impulse into Fact or Fiction chains. It's a stock UW Control deck otherwise so you're not playing bad cards to fuel them and once you assemble this combo you virtually never run out of life or cards. You can literally use all of your mana every turn while consistently making your land drops which is always a fantastic place to be when you're playing Magic.

The strongest openers for this deck involve a turn 1 Opt setting up into a Luminarch Ascension or Sapphire Medallion on turn 2. You shouldn't be keeping hands that don't contain one of those 12 cards because you're probably not going to win otherwise. The rest of the deck plays itself because it's nothing but card draw and removal so you can't screw it up from that position.

This is a fantastic Brainstorm deck if you own Fetchlands given that Dovin's Acuity boasts immense synergy with the card. Not only does it trigger it but you can also shuffle superfluous Acutity's away in favor of removal. You can also field budget alternatives Evolving Wilds to support Brainstorm but I'm less high on that option since ETB lands are always iffy. This deck can and will draw too many cards and eventually you'll find yourself spending the bulk of your mana on Luminarch Ascension as opposed to drawing your 5th card and gaining your 10th life for the turn so it's nice to be able to get rid of them as they become unnecessary.

This example deck wins with Luminarch Ascension but you could easily swap those out for alternatives such as Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Approach of the Second Sun or basically anything really. As long as it reliably seals the deal then you're good to go. You could also swap Impulse for Accumulated Knowledge and/or play both given that this deck sees a ton of cards so you'll routinely dig into 3+ copies of thing. I really like Accumulated Knowledge in Fact or Fiction decks in general so you'll want this card on your radar.



This is a sample token deck that abuses Hero of Precinct One and Depose // Deploy alongside staples such as Monastery Mentor and Jeskai Ascendancy which enable you to grow big + wide enough to beat the table into submission. The deck has a ton of looting/fixing between things like Discovery // Dispersal, Depose // Deploy, Izzet Charm and Jeskai Ascendancy which allow you to reliably locate your bombs while fueling powerful Delve spells such as Treasure Cruise. It's worth noting that Depose // Deploy is typically the last cantrip that you'll want to cast since ideally you'll want to casting Deploy on turn 4 after a turn 2 Hero and/or turn 3 Mentor. Assemble the Legion is your primary "go long" card given that it scales wildly over-the-top of your adversaries, especially when it's being paired with either Jeskai Ascendancy or Mirrorweave. Once you get to that stage of the game it's all over but the crying.

This is an amazing Skullclamp deck if you happen to own them and/or you could just as easily field Manifold Insights in order to avoid playing cards which are banned/restricted in other formats (such as Skullclamp, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time).

No Teysa Karlov deck?
I have a messy Abzan variant that practically built itself.
Somewhere in the middle between fun&active and pretty powerful...

Quote from Thijs1301 »

No Teysa Karlov deck?
I have a messy Abzan variant that practically built itself.
Somewhere in the middle between fun&active and pretty powerful...

I do have one actually.



This is a cookie-cutter Skullclamp deck that takes advantage of Priest of Forgotten Gods and Teysa Karlov from RNA. The broken card advantage engine of the deck is Skullclamp + Teysa Karlov but she's also insane with Zulaport Cutthroat and Grave Pact. Priest of Forgotten Gods is bonkers with Lingering Souls and/or Reassembling Skeleton and the other bodies are mostly there to flesh out your curve.

The creatures are mostly interchangeable and you can easily build towards a discard slant with Burglar Rat and Liliana's Specter. Boreas Charger could easily be Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Militia Bugler, Recruiter of the Guard, more Teysa Karlovs, anything really.

The mana is just for show and the deck could easily function with budget alternatives such as Orzhov Guildgate.

Normally I like playing cards like Anguished Unmaking in Orzhov but when you have Teysa you want your removal to be things like Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos and Martyr's Bond so that you can double up on their effects. Priest of Forgotten Gods is also stellar since it's a cheap way to control the board while fueling your engines and Living Death can also do a ton of work acting as a Wrath of God.

I couldn’t resist running all three versions of Teysa, they support eachother.
Also run Ministrant of Obligation, Blisterpod and Meren. Haven’t found room for Vindictive Lich...

A (broken) five colour variant I haven’t built would possibly run Goblin Bombardment and Mitotic Slime and possibly some Reef Worms and Pandemoniums...

Quote from Thijs1301 »

A (broken) five colour variant I haven’t built would possibly run Goblin Bombardment and Mitotic Slime and possibly some Reef Worms and Pandemoniums...

That does sound sweet lol. Mitotic Slime is already great with cards like Skullclamp, Viscera Seer and Priest of Forgotten Gods and even if you don't have Teysa there's still things like Zulaport Cutthroat and Grave Pact. Reef Worm same deal really.

I was playing around with Sapphire Medallion in my Stasis deck and ended up building:



This deck is designed to abuse the synergy between Sapphire Medallion + Dovin's Acuity without having to rely on either card. After all, virtually all of the cards in the deck are generically useful so it still plays magic just fine even when you're not "going off" with Impulse into Fact or Fiction chains. It's a stock UW Control deck otherwise so you're not playing bad cards to fuel them and once you assemble this combo you virtually never run out of life or cards. You can literally use all of your mana every turn while consistently making your land drops which is always a fantastic place to be when you're playing Magic.

The strongest openers for this deck involve a turn 1 Preordain setting up into a Luminarch Ascension or Sapphire Medallion on turn 2. You shouldn't be keeping hands that don't contain one of those 12 cards because you're probably not going to win otherwise. The rest of the deck plays itself because it's nothing but card draw and removal so you can't screw it up from that position.

This is a fantastic Brainstorm deck if you own Fetchlands given that Dovin's Acuity boasts immense synergy with the card. Not only does it trigger it but you can also shuffle superfluous Acutity's away in favor of removal. You can also field budget alternatives Evolving Wilds to support Brainstorm but I'm less high on that option since ETB lands are always iffy. This deck can and will draw too many cards and eventually you'll find yourself spending the bulk of your mana on Luminarch Ascension as opposed to drawing your 5th card and gaining your 10th life for the turn so it's nice to be able to get rid of them as they become unnecessary.

This example deck wins with Luminarch Ascension but you could easily swap those out for alternatives such as Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Approach of the Second Sun or basically anything really. As long as it reliably seals the deal then you're good to go. You could also swap Impulse for Accumulated Knowledge and/or play both given that this deck sees a ton of cards so you'll routinely dig into 3+ copies of thing. I really like Accumulated Knowledge in Fact or Fiction decks in general so you'll want this card on your radar.

This is a sample token deck that abuses Hero of Precinct One and Depose // Deploy alongside staples such as Monastery Mentor and Jeskai Ascendancy which enable you to grow big + wide enough to beat at able into submission. The deck has a ton of looting/fixing between things like Discovery // Dispersal, Depose // Deploy, Izzet Charm and Jeskai Ascendancy which enable you to reliably locate your bombs while fueling powerful Delve spells such as Treasure Cruise. It's worth noting that Depose // Deploy is typically the last cantrip that you'll want to cast since ideally you'll want to casting Deploy on turn 4 after a turn 2 Hero and/or turn 3 Mentor. Assemble the Legion is your primary "go long" card given that it scales wildly over-the-top of your adversaries, especially when it's being paired with either Jeskai Ascendancy or Mirrorweave. Once you get to that stage of the game it's all over but the crying.

This is an amazing Skullclamp deck if you happen to own them and/or you could just as easily field Manifold Insights in order to avoid playing cards which are banned/restricted in other formats (such as Skullclamp, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time).

Guttersnipe could go alright in that first one. And I know everyone will hate me for this, but I found Needle Drop more useful than it first appeared. I probably wouldn't drop anything for it, unless people wanted to reduce the colours for a more affordable manabase.

Quote from discomute »

Guttersnipe could go alright in that first one. And I know everyone will hate me for this, but I found Needle Drop more useful than it first appeared. I probably wouldn't drop anything for it, unless people wanted to reduce the colours for a more affordable manabase.

Guttersnipe is solid but doesn't trigger off of things like Curiosity which is a bit of a nonbo. It's still totally fine though, especially if you opt to play a ton of free spells such as Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose. Turn 1 Spewer, turn 2 Alchemist/Archer, turn 3 Snipe into any string of spells that use 3-4 mana should kill.

That being said I'd much rather play Light up the Stage than things like Lava Dart and Needle Drop. The deck can reliably deal 1 damage and the card advantage that if offers is fantastic. It's the go-to option for Monored at the very least.

Quote from Prid3 »

Quote from discomute »

Guttersnipe could go alright in that first one. And I know everyone will hate me for this, but I found Needle Drop more useful than it first appeared. I probably wouldn't drop anything for it, unless people wanted to reduce the colours for a more affordable manabase.

Guttersnipe is solid but doesn't trigger off of things like Curiosity which is a bit of a nonbo.

Ummm, what? Would you mind expanding on that? I can't figure out why. That is news to me...
edit: oh, wait, did you mean the casting of curiosity doesn't trigger 2 damage because it's an enchantment? I thought you meant when you enchant guttersnipe and it deals damage via its ability you don't get to draw...

It's still totally fine though, especially if you opt to play a ton of free spells such as Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose. Turn 1 Spewer, turn 2 Alchemist/Archer, turn 3 Snipe into any string of spells that use 3-4 mana should kill.

Oh yeah look if it doesn't combo, definitely doesn't work.

That being said I'd much rather play Light up the Stage than things like Lava Dart and Needle Drop. The deck can reliably deal 1 damage and the card advantage that if offers is fantastic. It's the go-to option for Monored at the very least.

You are correct, Light up the Stage is far better. I wasn't aware of the card. But, the fact you put Lava Dart along with Needle Drop imo means you are underrating Needle drop. Lava Dart is terrible in comparison, the draw that you get with Lava Dart makes it worthwhile. I have been told many times its a terrible card, my playtesting in red decks that use cards like thermo-al, gutter & fire arche is that it is actually 'reasonable'.

Yeah I was saying that Guttersnipe itself doesn't trigger off of things like Keen Sense, Cindervines and Sulfuric Vortex. You can still use it to draw a ton of cards though so the card is great.

Putting Needle Drop aside, I don't think that Lava Dart is a joke. I used to play 1 in my old version of the deck and that's why I brought it up. Lava Dart is a 1 drop spell that always draws into a 0 drop spell which makes it ideal for turn 4 kills. Those only occur when you do something like turn 2 Thermo-Alchemist into turn 3 Guttersnipe into a slew of free spells/burn/cantrips and the fact that Lava Dart deals 6 damage to each opponent for 1 mana in those scenarios means that it's often what pushes you over the edge. I still only ran 1 because the card is heinous on every turn except for "the last one" but I do want to stress that a Needle Drop that always draws into a "Darksteel Relic" is a legitimate use of a deckslot. Again, I legitimately played 1 in my old list and was reasonably happy with it so this isn't pure theory or anything.

I like your Rakdos Ramp list. Gave it a spin a few times and I like just how quickly it can drop bombs and create massive mana.
Sweepers would rob this deck of momentum quickly unfortunately, given the card *draw* creatures rely on Rakdos & Neheb.

Any idea's how you might improve this deck?

I'm thinking colourless threats means we could chuck in Eye of Ugin for finding more bombs, but I am considering just loading up on draw-bombs like Griselbrand, Kozilek etc.
Thrull Parasite could be an alternate weenie, for when perms like Sphere of Safety hit the table, the extort may matter too.

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

Any idea's how you might improve this deck?

I'm not posting the budget deck or anything lol. That's what I currently have sleeved-up myself.

The primary changes that I'd make are slight "Vintage" tweaks by adding cards that are typically banned/restricted in competitive formats. Even then the changes would be extremely minor because it's not as though this is a good Sol Ring deck and even Demonic Tutor isn't especially useful. Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Consultation and Demonic Tutor are all cards that I own so budget isn't an issue but these aren't even great cards given what the deck is trying to do. This deck wants to curve 1 drop -> 2x 1 drop -> Spawn of Mayhem -> Rakdos every game so spending mana on tutors isn't ideal and the ramp doesn't cast any of your spells.

I'd also like to make room for some Sneak Attacks but I've never gotten around to purchasing those since I mostly play monoblack decks.

The weirdest card in the deck is Hunted Horror and it's one that I might eventually replace. 2 mana for 7 damage is bonkers but it can also easily get you killed. It's not objectively good or bad and I'd have to play the deck more to get a better feel for it.

Gonti's Machinations is another interesting card since it's a nutty turn 1 play assuming that I can trigger it for turn 4. It's a heinous topdeck though which is why I currently don't field any. That might be insane though since 0 mana for 9 damage on your combo turns is obscene. Between Fetchlands, Ramunap Ruins, Spear Spewer and Spawn of Mayhem it might be crazy to exclude it.

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

I'm thinking colourless threats means we could chuck in Eye of Ugin for finding more bombs...

That only works turn 6+ assuming that you have a Neheb in play that you're already actively triggering. It's basically a blank otherwise.

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

I am considering just loading up on draw-bombs like Griselbrand, Kozilek etc.

Sandstone Oracle + Kozilek, Butcher of Truth = Good
Griselbrand = Bad

You need your cards to be castable off of pure "colorless" mana or they may as well be bricks.

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

Thrull Parasite could be an alternate weenie, for when perms like Sphere of Safety hit the table, the extort may matter too.

Sphere of Safety isn't a problem for this style of deck and Extort creatures are too slow and mana intensive for what it needs. I want to spend 1 mana in order to deal 3 damage which is a rate that I can easily obtain.

Quote from Prid3 »

I'm not posting the budget deck or anything lol.... I'd also like to make room for some Sneak Attacks but I've never gotten around to purchasing those since I mostly play monoblack decks.

Ha ha - yeah it's no budget deck.
Sneak Attack is definitely a decent option if we're talking 4x Emrakul & Griselbrand, given how powerful they are.
But in large FFA's, it loses a fair bit of impact when your beatstick only lasts one attack phase.
Even though it doesn't produce black mana (which obviously matters), Spinerock Knoll is one I'm considering.

Quote from Prid3 »

The weirdest card in the deck is Hunted Horror and it's one that I might eventually replace. 2 mana for 7 damage is bonkers but it can also easily get you killed. It's not objectively good or bad and I'd have to play the deck more to get a better feel for it.

Hunted Horror here does a lot of work for free mana via Rakdos & Neheb.
I like that it doesn't mess with the curve of Spawn > Rakdos or Neheb. I do find the centaurs to be a problem in some games though. Unless there's a clear upgrade for netting large mana, I'd leave it in.

Of possible replacements;
Grim Haruspex, Heartless Hidetsugu & Plague Spitter aren't optimal.
Have you considered a small number of Vial Smasher the Fierce?

Quote from Prid3 »

Gonti's Machinations is another interesting card since it's a nutty turn 1 play assuming that I can trigger it for turn 4. It's a heinous topdeck though which is why I currently don't field any. That might be insane though since 0 mana for 9 damage on your combo turns is obscene. Between Fetchlands, Ramunap Ruins, Spear Spewer and Spawn of Mayhem it might be crazy to exclude it.

Love GM in a few other decks, but not here.
I do think the life-gain is non-trivial however, as this deck will no doubt bring on alpha-strikes against you.

Quote from Prid3 »

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

I'm thinking colourless threats means we could chuck in Eye of Ugin for finding more bombs...

That only works turn 6+ assuming that you have a Neheb in play that you're already actively triggering. It's basically a blank otherwise.

Agreed. But then this deck is also likely to have few cards in hand by turn 6, unless you find a Oracle, Kozilek etc. to draw from. Sanctum of Ugin is another option

Quote from Prid3 »

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

I am considering just loading up on draw-bombs like Griselbrand, Kozilek etc.

Sandstone Oracle + Kozilek, Butcher of Truth = Good
Griselbrand = Bad
You need your cards to be castable off of pure "colorless" mana or they may as well be bricks.

After goldfishing the deck, I agree that colourless is preferable, but we can't play our large colourless threats until turn 5 anyway. The manabase here obviously matters a lot to make sure BBBB is achievable by turn 5. Given the lifelink, flying and repeatable card draw, I'm going to run 2x Griselbrand for a while and see how it goes, given how well it fuels this deck to drop fatty after fatty (manabase depcendent of course) and how well you can react to a Wrath of God etc. by grabbing a new grip.
Knollspine Dragon, Kaervek the Merciless & Rune-Scarred Demon are others that interest me, but not set on.

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

Sneak Attack... loses a fair bit of impact when your beatstick only lasts one attack phase.

You don't Sneak out the Emrakuls. You sneak out the Rakdos + dorks, hit people and hardcast the fatties.

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

...we can't play our large colourless threats until turn 5 anyway.

Why? Turn 1 dork, turn HH, turn 3 Spawn, turn 4 attack, cast Rakdos, cast Eldrazi. It's a turn 4 deck.

Turn 1 dork, turn HH, turn 3 Spawn, turn 4 attack, cast Rakdos, cast Eldrazi.

Now there’s an interesting definition of hardcasting.

(-:

Prid3, please bear in mind I don't own all of the awesome colourless threats you do, and my group tends to play a lot of sweepers, so that's why I'm focussing on draw-option fatties.

Quote from Prid3 »

Turn 1 dork, turn HH, turn 3 Spawn, turn 4 attack, cast Rakdos, cast Eldrazi. It's a turn 4 deck.

LOL, yeah ok fair enough, I stand corrected All depends on that nuts draw of course.

Quote from Prid3 »

You don't Sneak out the Emrakuls. You sneak out the Rakdos + dorks, hit people and hardcast the fatties.

Ok, so thinking out loud....
I'm not super keen about spending my hand & Rakdos, for a fatty that's open to both counter and removal on T5. In a duel I'd have no problem with this aggressive line of play, but in MP I'm not sure it's where I wanna be without loads of draw.
(fatty dependent of course)


I spent most of the afternoon playtesting with a few mates;
Thought I'd try 4x Madcap Experiment, 2x Platinum Emperion & no other artifact fatties.
I also tried 4x Spinerock Knoll. Due to playing Spinerock, I kept 4x Hunted Horror
PE allows very aggressive play, so of course I like it! It's ridiculous with Rakdos or Neheb in play just how aggressive you can be.
I'm not sure I'm sold on Madcap just yet, but the deck was surprisingly consistent smashing out large creatures on T4/5, with either Rakdos or Madcap.
Spinerock wasn't as consistent, but it did enable me to play the exiled card a few times. In the few games I saw Spinerock I didn't get to exile any colourless bombs, so I feel this card is inconsistent, but the upside here is strong.

Quote from Thijs1301 »

Now there’s an interesting definition of hardcasting.

Hey now! I only said "cast!" I'm not paying full retail value for my spells :).

Quote from bleedin_eyeball »

Prid3, please bear in mind I don't own all of the awesome colourless threats you do, and my group tends to play a lot of sweepers, so that's why I'm focussing on draw-option fatties.

Isn't Griselbrand like 20 bucks too lol? I hear what you're saying though and that's why I included cards like Sandstone Oracle in the deck. It's a fantastic way to draw back up to ~5 cards after you dump your hand.

Also, I HIGHLY recommend Void Winnower and Nullstone Gargoyle to play around sweepers. I'm actually going to update the deck to include Winnower because I love that card and forgot that it's hiding away in my EDH deck.

Quote from Prid3 »

I'm not super keen about spending my hand & Rakdos, for a fatty that's open to both counter and removal on T5.

This is an all-in combo deck and no matter how you slice it you're going to get blown out and dumpstered some % of the time. No build can play around that. My only goal is to build the best possible Rakdos deck because I like building around multiplayer-specific cards and strategies and Pulse Trackers + Rakdos, Lord of Riots is a busted interaction.

Still, the deck isn't dead to interaction by any means even if you're building on a budget. Your 8 threats can easily be:



And the deck would be totally fine.

This is my current, as-is Vintage deck. It's based on "what I own" as opposed to "what I wish I owned" which explains most of the notable exclusions. The basic combo of the deck is to chain Waste Not/Smothering Tithe into Dark Deal/Windfall which generates infinite everything (more-or-less). From there you can Cut // Ribbons the table out and/or win however you want to win. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Past in Flames, Yawgmoth's Will, Mnemonic Betrayal, it doesn't matter. I like Cut // Ribbons because it's sleek and easy and it's not actually vulnerable to permission because you jam a ton of Defense Grids and Silences first.

I'll note that I do own Lotus Petal, Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox and that the deck should probably be playing 1-2 copies (total) because they're fantastic ways to generate White mana on your combo turns to load up on Silences. Still, I prefer Gemstone Caverns and this deck can't afford to 2-for-1 itself too many times because otherwise it doesn't do anything. This is why I currently don't play any but that could be wrong.

Multiplayer isn't really a "sideboard" format so I have to preboard for Flash + Protean Hulk and "Oops All Spells" decks. This is why I have 4x maindeck Leyline of the Void. It's also why I have cards like Chain of Vapor, Balance and Toxic Deluge; so that I can deal with "stuff" that would otherwise prevent me from winning. That being said interaction should definitely be added, tweaked or removed as needed.

I tend to prefer Silence over Force of Will in combo decks since you don't have often have the extra cards to pitch and Windfall decks have a bad habit of drawing people into tons of cheap/free permission which is why I use my slots on Silence and Defense Grid.

Moreover, I know that most people don't care about Vintage because they don't play it, and that's fine, because this isn't a "Vintage" deck by any stretch of the imagination. I'm only trying to showcase how you can put Gemstone Caverns, Dark Ritual, Waste Not, Dark Deal and Smothering Tithe in a deck in order to go for turn 2-3 kills. Turn 1 Gemstone Caverns + Waste Not/Dark Ritual + Smothering Tithe, turn 2 Dark Deal/Windfall is clean turn 2 win. Heck, you don't need the Gemstone Caverns or Dark Rituals either. You just have to put Waste Not, Dark Deal and Smothering Tithe into the same deck in some capacity and good things will happen.

Another way to build around Smothering Tithes is as a degenerate mana engine for Sunder/Wildfire/Upheaval decks. This one also abuses Bouncelands + Borderposts + Surveyor's Scope in order to transform the latter into a "2 mana ramp 3" so it actually has 2 overpowered mana engines at its disposal. Otherwise it's a generic Wildfire deck full of ramp, removal and win conditions so there's not much else to say about it. In terms of wins cons, use whatever you want, but I like Rite of the Raging Storm because it's fetchable off of Enlightened Tutor, resilient, survives Obliterate, survives Decree of Annihilation, etc. You can still things like Oblivion Sower and Sundering Titan since they work fine but I'm a huge fan of the Rite.

Other relevant cards for the deck include things like Ancient Tomb, Sandstone Needle, Land Tax, Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, Blood Moon, Armageddon, Sublime Exhalation and Blasphemous Act. Land Tax loves Borderposts and Sandstone Needle is fantastic with Surveyor's Scope so I want to plug those hard

Win conditions could be things like Luminarch Ascension, Ember Swallower, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Chandra, Flamecaller, Wurmcoil Engine, Inferno Titan, Oblivion Sower, Approach of the Second Sun and Sundering Titan.