Back with another deck idea that I hope to get some input on or perhaps some direction. One of my biggest flaws deck building is my propensity to get distracted.... "Oooh piece of candy" and then good/fun ideas get bloated and devolve into multiple half baked strategies.
I play mainly in a 4 man meta and sometimes we get a 5th or 6th person. No infinite combo stuff, but we try to get close
What I really want to do is abuse Ooze flux and Cathars' Crusade, the latter I know all too well, the former I just stumbled upon. Feels like the evolve, graft, counters and/or doubling mechanics are one way you could take the deck. Well no graft here as of yet.
I'm over in cards as usual. Not sure what my win con is other than beating face and swarming people. Obviously unmolested this thing could get out of control but no game plan ever goes according to plan. Am I missing anything? I'm totally open to suggestions to make it more degenerate or at the very least, focused. Some cards feel weak but this is a first draft and I was hoping the sum is greater than the parts.
Just so you're aware, there are creatures similar to those with evolve but with much higher potential in multiplayer because they scale well with multiple players. (Several of these will just win games on their own if they go unanswered.)
Managorger Hydra (trample is key here) Ravenous Slime (New, on theme, great gy hate) Another recent thread has talked about this with Whiptongue Hydra. Feed all those flyers to RS and Whiptongue all at once. Forgotten Ancient (Going tall has the glaring weakness of being chump blocked all day long so you can use this not just as an attacker, but as a way to beef up anything with trample/flying/unblock-able/etc.)
Also, since you're not only going wide, but tall as well, Armorcraft Judge works great here for keeping up the gas. And since you're in blue as well, Chasm Skulker fits quite nicely in your shell. Dense Foliage is also a great way to tie these kinds of decks together because you're mostly playing permanents and not interacting with other players.
Prid3 covers a lot of cards like these in his guides. Feel free to give them a look.
I appreciate both of your responses. All the cards you recommend are viable for a generic good stuffs counter deck, I don't think that is where I want to take this. Problem is, the more I move cards around, the more I realize that what you are recommending is indeed likely the strongest but most linear deck option.
I appreciate both of your responses. All the cards you recommend are viable for a generic good stuffs counter deck, I don't think that is where I want to take this. Problem is, the more I move cards around, the more I realize that what you are recommending is indeed likely the strongest but most linear deck option.
Not really sure what I will do with this now
I have this problem all the time
My advice is to stick to your theme, and to try to consider the success of the deck as to whether it 'works the way you intended' rather than whether you win. Just personally think it's more fun that way.
My advice is to stick to your theme, and to try to consider the success of the deck as to whether it 'works the way you intended' rather than whether you win. Just personally think it's more fun that way.
Thanks for the advice, I am going to revamp it and see if I can turn lemons into lemonade. Will post and updated decklist when I am done
If it helps with the ideas this is my counter deck that I play casual multiplayer with. It is modern legal. It isn't that powerful, but it has a bit of everything in graveyard removal and enchantment/artifact stuff. I haven't played it a bit any maybe might need a fight card or two.
It really depends on the kind of deck that you want. From the op, your main worry seems to be diluting your game plan with too many different things.
I would say think of your main plan as going wide, tall, and then beating face. Then support this plan with draw that fits well in your shell so you can keep the gas going. (ex. Armorcraft Judge / Greater Good). At this point, you're a strong deck, even if very linear.
Now as far as spicing things up and adding more interaction without taking away from your game plan, I'd say you might as well continue using the synergy in your deck. Why not turn those counters into interaction? (Counters turned into dmg, theft affects, mana, draw, life, etc) You have a few of these already in your deck. I'd say your main work should be done figuring out the right ratios. # of sources that create counters, # of creatures that are proficient at attacking with all those counters (trample/unblockable/etc), # of interactive counter cards, and the amount of draw that you want.
Beast Within is a good catch all option for spot removal if you have room. Dense Foliage will stop people from interacting with you short of board wipes. But in general, try to always be thinking about your main game plan and if additional cards support it or not. Easier said than done though, I know it's hard not to want to include cool looking cards that touch on your strategy.
Well it's Ooze flux and Cathars' Crusade interaction that caused me to start the thread. That is the direction I wanted to take it.
Then it was a no brainer that Aura Shards belonged, and then doubling season and hardened scales seemed relevant. If I don't want to run enough copies to draw them all each game, I need to run a play set of enlightened tutor for more virtual copies.
I haven't even chosen any creatures yet and the deck is already morphing dangerously into something I don't want to play (if that makes sense)
Are experiment one and avatar of the resolute off of your list on purpose? scrounging bandar could be good in this deck to manipulate who gets what when you need it. Dromuka's command for utility of control. Rishkar, Peema Renegade to get you mana ramp going a bit quicker.
Experiment one looks great, but I find it doesn't suit counter decks. This is because so many creatures come in with 0/0 and counters or 1/1 with the ability to generate counters
Avatar is insane though. He's good even with no additional cost of counters.
Do need any of the blue evolve creatures for that? Once you assemble Ooze Flux + Cathars' Crusade, literally any creature gets the ball rolling. It doesn't need to evolve or enter the battlefield with any counters. Cathars' Crusade already takes care of that. You just need 1G times a million.
That still leaves 52/60 of your deck unaccounted for. You could get fancy with Doubling Season (but you don't need to.) Aura Shards is nice. Devoted Druid is pretty sick with Cathars' Crusade, so I'd definitely try those.
Now we're down to 40/60, plenty of room to get even more creative. So... where else would you like to take this?
I have a couple Doubling Season and just assumed for once that this was the type of deck to abuse it with...am I wrong?
Devoted Druid clearly is something that needs to go in.
It doesn't have to be evolve creatures, I just was running with a theme, but clearly it's weaker than some other suggestions so lets just drop all of them.
I guess I don't really have any concrete ideas past this point. It probably means Walking ballista and friends are back on the table
Are experiment one and avatar of the resolute off of your list on purpose? scrounging bandar could be good in this deck to manipulate who gets what when you need it. Dromuka's command for utility of control. Rishkar, Peema Renegade to get you mana ramp going a bit quicker.
Doubling season is sweet, but compare to hardened scales. You're getting close to the same thing for 4cmc less - a big deal. Have fun with the card but be aware it is rather expensive.
Or even a kalonian hydra...
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I play mainly in a 4 man meta and sometimes we get a 5th or 6th person. No infinite combo stuff, but we try to get close
What I really want to do is abuse Ooze flux and Cathars' Crusade, the latter I know all too well, the former I just stumbled upon. Feels like the evolve, graft, counters and/or doubling mechanics are one way you could take the deck. Well no graft here as of yet.
4x Breeding Pool
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Krosan Verge
4x Temple Garden
3x Temple of Mystery
1x Glacial Fortress
Creatures (26)
4x Cloudfin Raptor
4x Elusive Krasis
3x Fathom Mage
4x Gyre Sage
3x Master Biomancer
2x Protean Hydra
1x Renegade Krasis
2x Simic Manipulator
1x Spike Feeder
1x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
1x Vorel of the Hull Clade
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Hardened Scales
2x Aura Shards
2x Ooze Flux
2x Cathars' Crusade
2x Doubling Season
I'm over in cards as usual. Not sure what my win con is other than beating face and swarming people. Obviously unmolested this thing could get out of control but no game plan ever goes according to plan. Am I missing anything? I'm totally open to suggestions to make it more degenerate or at the very least, focused. Some cards feel weak but this is a first draft and I was hoping the sum is greater than the parts.
Critique away
Managorger Hydra (trample is key here)
Ravenous Slime (New, on theme, great gy hate) Another recent thread has talked about this with Whiptongue Hydra. Feed all those flyers to RS and Whiptongue all at once.
Forgotten Ancient (Going tall has the glaring weakness of being chump blocked all day long so you can use this not just as an attacker, but as a way to beef up anything with trample/flying/unblock-able/etc.)
Scavenging Ooze (On theme, gy hate)
Predator Ooze (On theme, reliable/growing threat)
Also, since you're not only going wide, but tall as well, Armorcraft Judge works great here for keeping up the gas. And since you're in blue as well, Chasm Skulker fits quite nicely in your shell. Dense Foliage is also a great way to tie these kinds of decks together because you're mostly playing permanents and not interacting with other players.
Prid3 covers a lot of cards like these in his guides. Feel free to give them a look.
Not really sure what I will do with this now
I have this problem all the time
My advice is to stick to your theme, and to try to consider the success of the deck as to whether it 'works the way you intended' rather than whether you win. Just personally think it's more fun that way.
Thanks for the advice, I am going to revamp it and see if I can turn lemons into lemonade. Will post and updated decklist when I am done
2x Acidic Slime
4x Avatar of the Resolute
2x Kalonian Hydra
4x Managorger Hydra
1x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Predator Ooze
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Servant of the Scale
2x Chord of Calling
2x Momentous Fall
2x Solidarity of Heroes
3x Vines of Vastwood
Enchantment (4)
4x Hardened Scales
Artifact (1)
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Land (23)
20x Forest
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
I would say think of your main plan as going wide, tall, and then beating face. Then support this plan with draw that fits well in your shell so you can keep the gas going. (ex. Armorcraft Judge / Greater Good). At this point, you're a strong deck, even if very linear.
Now as far as spicing things up and adding more interaction without taking away from your game plan, I'd say you might as well continue using the synergy in your deck. Why not turn those counters into interaction? (Counters turned into dmg, theft affects, mana, draw, life, etc) You have a few of these already in your deck. I'd say your main work should be done figuring out the right ratios. # of sources that create counters, # of creatures that are proficient at attacking with all those counters (trample/unblockable/etc), # of interactive counter cards, and the amount of draw that you want.
Beast Within is a good catch all option for spot removal if you have room. Dense Foliage will stop people from interacting with you short of board wipes. But in general, try to always be thinking about your main game plan and if additional cards support it or not. Easier said than done though, I know it's hard not to want to include cool looking cards that touch on your strategy.
Then it was a no brainer that Aura Shards belonged, and then doubling season and hardened scales seemed relevant. If I don't want to run enough copies to draw them all each game, I need to run a play set of enlightened tutor for more virtual copies.
I haven't even chosen any creatures yet and the deck is already morphing dangerously into something I don't want to play (if that makes sense)
Avatar is insane though. He's good even with no additional cost of counters.
I have a couple Doubling Season and just assumed for once that this was the type of deck to abuse it with...am I wrong?
Devoted Druid clearly is something that needs to go in.
It doesn't have to be evolve creatures, I just was running with a theme, but clearly it's weaker than some other suggestions so lets just drop all of them.
I guess I don't really have any concrete ideas past this point. It probably means Walking ballista and friends are back on the table
Will look at avatar of the resolute
I suppose I need to put up a new decklist
Or even a kalonian hydra...