Sorry for posting so many decks lately but this form has been a great resource to me, so thanks!
This deck used to be a 1v1 deck, but as my playgroup has grown multiplayer has become a much more played format. This deck needs what I think is a complete overhaul to make it multiplayer (4 players, restricted to modern card pool).
This deck is the original 1v1 deck I have, that will certainly be changing.
Not sure how I feel about Walking Ballista in multiplayer. Its the only thing that I have that makes Rishkar, Peema Renegade multiple creature mana ramp worth while. I really do like the idea of making all my creatures into dorks, so a better dump would be cool, But with a hardened scales and a winding constrictor it is brutal removal.
So what do you guys think? Am I overestimating how terrible this would be in multiplayer? Any great (modern legal) creatures im missing out on? Do I need to find room for draw/ramp? Lacking a finisher too big a deal?
Cytoplast Root-Kin - Gets lots of counters with Constrictor and Scales and gives out counters as well. Though the kicker is, that two of them can swap and multiply counters between them. If you have lots of mana, that is a lot of counters. You probaby want something like Tuskguard Captain to give them trample, and that one makes counters as well. Daghatar the Adamant would fit very well, too, and would be even more versatile, but requires you to at least splash white. Going full three colored opens the path for many more outlast creatures to grant first strike, flying, etc. to all your creatures with +1/+1 counters.
Your defense against flyers seems lacking, only three Avatar of the Resolute and hardly any removal. Aquastrand Spider is a nice early creature to close the skies and again is useful for lots of counter interaction.
Golgari Guildmage can produce more counters and can swap creatures from the grave. Maybe cycle two Root-Kins around for hilarity. Takes a lot of mana, but you can produce that.
Your managorgers will be big, just throw in two Rogue’s Passage’s to make ‘m connect.
If you drop the ballistae you might want to run one or two Meren of Clan Nel Toth, she loves the constrictors.
And indeed: please run card draw! Card draw wins games.
The suggestions above are good. Another great option is Bloodgift Demon.
Pseudo card draw is good too; Phyrexian Reclamation or Genesis would do nicely.
To make room I’d drop the experiments and the geists.
And maybe drop two scavenging oozes, but keep the other two.
And drop one troll.
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My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I tend to play 4 to 8 player games, so I favour cards that scale.
Besides turning creatures sideways, you don't have an alternate win.
For me, decks that go full-retard on counters usually end up running Chandra's Ignition &/or Jared, Golgari Lich Lord, as they can both win games in their own right if turning creatures sideways isn't getting it done.
Forgotten Ancient is worth your time. Corpsejack Menace might be too.
I usually find a single sweeper enough to say goodnight should you over-commit, so make sure you have card draw options.
FWIW, I like Syphon Mind, but I've run Momentous Fall in the past.
Looking at your list, 4 Lurking Predators may fit. Insane for creature heavy decks in multiplayer, Dryad Arbor works with it too.
I tend to play 4 to 8 player games, so I favour cards that scale.
Besides turning creatures sideways, you don't have an alternate win.
For me, decks that go full-retard on counters usually end up running Chandra's Ignition &/or Jared, Golgari Lich Lord, as they can both win games in their own right if turning creatures sideways isn't getting it done.
Forgotten Ancient is worth your time. Corpsejack Menace might be too.
I usually find a single sweeper enough to say goodnight should you over-commit, so make sure you have card draw options.
FWIW, I like Syphon Mind, but I've run Momentous Fall in the past.
Looking at your list, 4 Lurking Predators may fit. Insane for creature heavy decks in multiplayer, Dryad Arbor works with it too.
It seems jund is the way this deck wants to move, with red being the splash color. However im not really a fan of the 12 Managorger Hydra and thinking that I just want to stick to the 4, Forgotten Ancient is also not modern legal. Getting Jarad into the deck seems sweet, and I really like Kresh the Bloodbraided
Its going to take some time as there hasnt been anything that jumps out as the real solution to this deck. Hopefully in a week or two ill have a new list posted that is slightly improved.
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I am restricted to the modern legal card-pool. (Unless it's EDH)
But I also wouldn't fault you for adding the Predator Oozes back in. I don't actually like Corpsejack Menace that much but it's still playable. To answer some of your questions:
Llanowar Elves are reasonable since the deck is surprisingly mana hungry. I often play 4 and find them to be actively good. I don't build my deck this way but if you have a good enough manabase you could even consider going to 18 lands, adding 4x Llanowar Elves and then playing Lead the Stampede as your value spell. Very risky against removal but casting a Lead and drawing 3-4 creatures always feels nuts.
Rishkar, Peema Renegade is extremely powerful since these decks can be surprisingly mana hungry but he's also gas that fuels your engines. Elves are just mana whereas he comes with a slew of counters to toss around and that definitely matters in the mid stages of the game.
Walking Ballista is great even in multiplayer. It's a removal spell that scales amazingly well with all of your engines and threatens kills past a certain point.
Tireless Tracker is a solid 2-of value engine but he's better in lists with Fetchlands. He also eats up too much mana for too little impact early on. I prefer Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
But I also wouldn't fault you for adding the Predator Oozes back in. I don't actually like Corpsejack Menace that much but it's still playable. To answer some of your questions:
Llanowar Elves are reasonable since the deck is surprisingly mana hungry. I often play 4 and find them to be actively good. I don't build my deck this way but if you have a good enough manabase you could even consider going to 18 lands, adding 4x Llanowar Elves and then playing Lead the Stampede as your value spell. Very risky against removal but casting a Lead and drawing 3-4 creatures always feels nuts.
I like the idea of Lead the Stampede As a payoff card, 18 lands is scary bit it think its worth the try. How do you feel about Grisly Salvage over Oath of Nissa. Is the dual color casting cost not worth the extra 2 card dig?
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I am restricted to the modern legal card-pool. (Unless it's EDH)
How do you feel about Grisly Salvage over Oath of Nissa. Is the dual color casting cost not worth the extra 2 card dig?
Not worth. It's not about value; it's about maximizing your probability of a turn 1 Scales or turn 2 Snake. Games where you don't have either are nigh unwinnable. Feel free to use Adventurous Impulse unless you add 'Walkers.
Is Yahenni, Undying Partisan good enough for your group?
If you can sacrifice your creatures to it, it's indestructible. If your opponents have creatures dying, it gets huge.
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Sorry for posting so many decks lately but this form has been a great resource to me, so thanks!
This deck used to be a 1v1 deck, but as my playgroup has grown multiplayer has become a much more played format. This deck needs what I think is a complete overhaul to make it multiplayer (4 players, restricted to modern card pool).
This deck is the original 1v1 deck I have, that will certainly be changing.
3x Avatar of the Resolute
1x Disowned Ancestor
4x Experiment One
4x Lotleth Troll
2x Predator Ooze
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Scavenging Ooze
2x Slitherhead
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Walking Ballista
4x Winding Constrictor
11x Forest
4x Llanowar Wastes
3x Swamp
4x Woodland Cemetery
Enchantment (4)
4x Hardened Scales
2x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Managorger Hydra
2x Predator Ooze
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Walking Ballista
4x Winding Constrictor
11x Forest
4x Llanowar Wastes
3x Swamp
4x Woodland Cemetery
Enchantment (4)
4x Hardened Scales
4x Adventurous Impulse
2x Benefactor's Draught (BLERGH NOT MODERN LEGAL)
All ive done for now is find a place for Managorger Hydra which I feel is a multiplayer all star. Im thinking Tireless Tracker is also an easy include, probably over Strangleroot Geist?
How do you guys feel about Rishkar, Peema Renegade? Traditional Arbor elf or Llanowar Elves Ramp is probably better.
I feel like Lotleth Troll, Experiment One, Scavenging Ooze and Strangleroot Geist are all great in the 1v1 version (well maybe not Lotleth Troll, doesn't seem to be the shell for him), but are very lackluster in multiplayer.
Not sure how I feel about Walking Ballista in multiplayer. Its the only thing that I have that makes Rishkar, Peema Renegade multiple creature mana ramp worth while. I really do like the idea of making all my creatures into dorks, so a better dump would be cool, But with a hardened scales and a winding constrictor it is brutal removal.
So what do you guys think? Am I overestimating how terrible this would be in multiplayer? Any great (modern legal) creatures im missing out on? Do I need to find room for draw/ramp? Lacking a finisher too big a deal?
Sorry guys I feel this one needs a lot of help.
Cytoplast Root-Kin - Gets lots of counters with Constrictor and Scales and gives out counters as well. Though the kicker is, that two of them can swap and multiply counters between them. If you have lots of mana, that is a lot of counters. You probaby want something like Tuskguard Captain to give them trample, and that one makes counters as well. Daghatar the Adamant would fit very well, too, and would be even more versatile, but requires you to at least splash white. Going full three colored opens the path for many more outlast creatures to grant first strike, flying, etc. to all your creatures with +1/+1 counters.
Your defense against flyers seems lacking, only three Avatar of the Resolute and hardly any removal. Aquastrand Spider is a nice early creature to close the skies and again is useful for lots of counter interaction.
Golgari Guildmage can produce more counters and can swap creatures from the grave. Maybe cycle two Root-Kins around for hilarity. Takes a lot of mana, but you can produce that.
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Cauldron of Souls is also a lot of fun in these +1/+1 counters decks for some nice recursion.
Cards I could easily remove without a second thought; Lotleth Troll (good card, but not the right deck), Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Disowned Ancestor, and Slitherhead.
If you need removal, Retribution of the Ancients is a decent choice. If you want life gain (or more counters), Spike Feeder is good.
I believe those are all modern legal. Only card you're really missing out on in a deck like this is Forgotten Ancient.
If you drop the ballistae you might want to run one or two Meren of Clan Nel Toth, she loves the constrictors.
And indeed: please run card draw! Card draw wins games.
The suggestions above are good. Another great option is Bloodgift Demon.
Pseudo card draw is good too; Phyrexian Reclamation or Genesis would do nicely.
To make room I’d drop the experiments and the geists.
And maybe drop two scavenging oozes, but keep the other two.
And drop one troll.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Besides turning creatures sideways, you don't have an alternate win.
For me, decks that go full-retard on counters usually end up running Chandra's Ignition &/or Jared, Golgari Lich Lord, as they can both win games in their own right if turning creatures sideways isn't getting it done.
Forgotten Ancient is worth your time. Corpsejack Menace might be too.
I usually find a single sweeper enough to say goodnight should you over-commit, so make sure you have card draw options.
FWIW, I like Syphon Mind, but I've run Momentous Fall in the past.
Looking at your list, 4 Lurking Predators may fit. Insane for creature heavy decks in multiplayer, Dryad Arbor works with it too.
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Rogue's Passage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Managorger Hydra
4 Taurean Mauler
4 Forgotten Ancient
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Kresh the Bloodbraided
3 Chandra's Ignition
4 Syphon Mind
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Whip of Erebos
FGC I agree completely with the issues the deck has, and i'm having a tough time finding solutions myself =P
It seems jund is the way this deck wants to move, with red being the splash color. However im not really a fan of the 12 Managorger Hydra and thinking that I just want to stick to the 4, Forgotten Ancient is also not modern legal. Getting Jarad into the deck seems sweet, and I really like Kresh the Bloodbraided
Its going to take some time as there hasnt been anything that jumps out as the real solution to this deck. Hopefully in a week or two ill have a new list posted that is slightly improved.
10x Forest
4x Swamp
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Woodland Cemetery
Creatures (28)
4x Walking Ballista
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Mold Adder
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Managorger Hydra
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4x Adventurous Impulse
4x Hardened Scales
2x Evolutionary Leap
But I also wouldn't fault you for adding the Predator Oozes back in. I don't actually like Corpsejack Menace that much but it's still playable. To answer some of your questions:
Llanowar Elves are reasonable since the deck is surprisingly mana hungry. I often play 4 and find them to be actively good. I don't build my deck this way but if you have a good enough manabase you could even consider going to 18 lands, adding 4x Llanowar Elves and then playing Lead the Stampede as your value spell. Very risky against removal but casting a Lead and drawing 3-4 creatures always feels nuts.
Rishkar, Peema Renegade is extremely powerful since these decks can be surprisingly mana hungry but he's also gas that fuels your engines. Elves are just mana whereas he comes with a slew of counters to toss around and that definitely matters in the mid stages of the game.
Walking Ballista is great even in multiplayer. It's a removal spell that scales amazingly well with all of your engines and threatens kills past a certain point.
Tireless Tracker is a solid 2-of value engine but he's better in lists with Fetchlands. He also eats up too much mana for too little impact early on. I prefer Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
Strangleroot Geist is extremely marginal. The only things that I like about it are its synergies with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Evolutionary Leap.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Your advice is always worth a lot!
I Really like Predator Ooze, and am not a fan of having 8x Managorger Hydra, So will probably cut some combo of Mold Adder and the Hydra for it.
I like the idea of Lead the Stampede As a payoff card, 18 lands is scary bit it think its worth the try. How do you feel about Grisly Salvage over Oath of Nissa. Is the dual color casting cost not worth the extra 2 card dig?
Not worth. It's not about value; it's about maximizing your probability of a turn 1 Scales or turn 2 Snake. Games where you don't have either are nigh unwinnable. Feel free to use Adventurous Impulse unless you add 'Walkers.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
If you can sacrifice your creatures to it, it's indestructible. If your opponents have creatures dying, it gets huge.