Hey team, I've been thinking about building around Jhoira's Familiar since it seems like it's one of the most powerful creatures printed in Dominaria. I'm looking for suggestions on how to finish up this deck to ensure that I'm able to reliably close games out against multiple adversaries. I'll mostly be playing against 3 opponents (FFA), Legacy B&R list and a relatively tight budget. Just curious how other people would build this type of list.
The gist of the deck is simple; cast a slew of cost reducers and combo off with things like Mishra's Self-Replicator and Sandstone Oracle. The former is bonkers with cheap/free spells because means that you can spend all of your mana on producing a massive army of robots. The latter refills your hand with cheap/free spells which is ideal when you have this much ramp. The deck wins by chaining off into Self-Replicaters fueled by Master of Etherium and The Immortal Sun to buff them.
By the way, the title doesn’t seem to fit the question.
What do you mean? Ensoul Artifact is a critical card for the strategy. I was goldfishing the deck and Ensoul Artifact on a turn 1 Chromatic Star proved to be an extremely quick clock. It let me kill a player every 4 circuits.
I'm a big fan of using Vault Skirge with Ensoul Artifact. Also, while chaining through that many artifacts cranial plating may be in order. It's basically ensouls 5-8 given the creature density of the deck.
He already has 4 Thoughcast in his deck...Sandstone Oracle can be played for free under the right circumstances...it's actually one of the strongest cards of his deck =)
Considered all of these and more but, as you said, they receive no benefit from my cost reduction effects and I only have so much room for card draw. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing them as singletons but I wouldn't want to add a ton of them unless I tweaked the deck to have an additional 4x Chromatic Star or something along those lines.
Considered that one as well but it seems too win-more. After all, i's just another cost reducer and it's by far and away the most expensive one. It's strong, don't get me wrong, I just don't think that it's going to win me many games that I wasn't already going to crush.
Note that I don't mind any of these suggestions, I'm just struggling to think of what I could even cut for them. "Going big" isn't my issue I don't think.
To me, the cards that I am unsure about in your deck are...
Chief of the Foundry: +1/+1 is not that big of a bonus and you will not always have 20 of these 2/2 for the +1/+1 bonus to be a huge difference. I would rather run Coat of Arms or something similar...the coat will be cheap to play (2 ?) and will have a much bigger impact than the Chief on your assembly-worker army.
Semblance Anvil: I am worried about you putting 2 cards in one...but I understand that it's your only mana-reducing card that wouldn't die to a Wrath of God
I'm wondering if Ichor Wellspring is worth playing...it would be free to play most of the time...you draw a card and it's a small safety if someone destroys all artifacts. Seems better than Prophetic Prism to me...you won't be looking for your blue mana anyway with 12 lands that can generate blue mana.
I guess this really comes down to how much you want to spew out tokens VS grind everyone out.
Drawing a tonne of cards and playing out your whole hand every turn past turn 5 is the aim I assume?
Just some idea's;
Given how much something like Fracturing Gust would suck, have you considered a Darksteel Forge or two?
How about Helm of Possession to steal potential problems from your opponents?
If you're considering Smokestack, you'd be able to steal whatever resistance or token producers they might have.
I agree that Chief is suspect but I want the deck to be as low-to-the curve as possible. It's very important that I'm able to empty my hand. That spot is definitely not set-in-stone though. I'm kinda thinking Eldrazi Monument because it shores up one of my biggest weaknesses.
Anvil is one of the best cards in the deck and I don't see myself cutting it anytime soon. It's a Sol Ring for every spell that I play and I don't care about 2-for-1s when I'm playing a whack of Sandstone Oracles. If it dies to removal then it dies to removal, but I probably wasn't winning that game regardless.
Prophetic Prism vs Ichor Wellspring is close but I've played these kinds of decks before and I'd rather have the colored mana. I'm not going to beat Creeping Corrosion either way and having more sources early on does matter.
How about Helm of Possession to steal potential problems from your opponents?
If you're considering Smokestack, you'd be able to steal whatever resistance or token producers they might have.
Phyrexian Metamorph is pretty great in these shells. Especially if you decide to go with Master of Etherium. Adding a few Sculpting Steel is also an option if you want to have a decent copy sub theme. I have a modern deck based around cloning/artifact lords/artifact reducers that explodes very quickly if you just have one lord and a bunch of lowered cost copy artifacts. I run Grand Architect to help with the explosiveness and also offering another lord option (Gotta metamorph it first for sculpting steel), even though it's much weaker than Master of Etherium.
The main plan was originally to copy a bunch of Lodestone Golems and then lords as a secondary but I found that the lord plan was way more deadly and consistent and often times, by the time I could get a bunch of golems out, it either wasn't enough to stabilize, or the game was already won anyway.
I definitely like The Antiquities War, dodges creature-based sorcery-speed board wipes like a dream (in terms of you always having artifacts to animate in your lands and such), and you can even (I think) use something like Hex Parasite to use the last ability over and over.
I ordered the cards for a similar deck a few days ago with the Etherium Sculptor, Foundry Inspector and Jhoira's Familiar shell, but decided to try Aetherflux Reservoir (and a handful of cantripping artifacts) as the win condition since I haven't had a chance to use it yet. Did you consider that route?
I ordered the cards for a similar deck a few days ago with the Etherium Sculptor, Foundry Inspector and Jhoira's Familiar shell, but decided to try Aetherflux Reservoir (and a handful of cantripping artifacts) as the win condition since I haven't had a chance to use it yet. Did you consider that route?
Yes, I originally had a similar build planned that also had Helm of Awakening but it was basically just a bad combo deck so I switched off of that plan. It was:
Goldfished the deck a couple of times but wasn't impressed. This style of deck is begging for broken mana like Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt and Sol Ring to make it sing.
I guess the Artifice Guide owner should chime in.
What's Memnarch worth these days? Pretty sure there's a FtV copy that's going to be under $10. I should probably go and check.
Anyway, if it's somewhat budget, run it. Even just a single copy. It's a one-card match-winner that has to be answered. I have seen it smashed into decks like this time and again, and people get too fixated on blowing Memnarch off the board to concentrate on actually getting rid of your combo pieces. (Like, srsly... Padeem? OK. Darksteel Forge? Sure. Clock of Omens or Paradox Engine? Why not. Memnarch? KILL IT! BURN IT! IT MUST DIE!!!)
And it's historic, too.
This deck isn't especially likely to have 7 lands nor UUU available to it. That's more of a control card.
If you're not reaching 7, why is Darksteel Forge in the deck?
Srsly, I'd throw one in just because it draws fire and has to be dealt with, and can snatch a win from nowhere if it isn't.
If you can't activate it, or it takes you two turns to steal something? Big whoop, at least it's sitting out there being a threat and rattlesnake, and maybe stealing something and being a threat. People will aim for that instead of the guys you're probably actually going to win with.
I get that this is probably the win-or-die-trying list, though - consider a singleton Memnarch the "break glass in case of emergency" game win solution for the deck.
If you're not reaching 7, why is Darksteel Forge in the deck?
You're comparing apples to oranges. My deck is nothing but "your spells cost N less" effects so getting to "9 mana" for Darksteel Forge is reasonable. I don't care about Mem's CC, that's totally irrelevant, I care about his much his activated abilities cost. It's 4UUU to steal something and it's not reduced by my ramp effects. I could spend 2 turns stealing something or I could put 14+ power into play with Mishra's Self-Replicator.
I don't care about Mem's CC, that's totally irrelevant, I care about his much his activated abilities cost. It's 4UUU to steal something and it's not reduced by my ramp effects. I could spend 2 turns stealing something or I could put 14+ power into play with Mishra's Self-Replicator.
Yep, most times that should work, too. Memnarch is for the moments where Sheoldred or something equally horrible is across the table and cramping your style. It either steals your problem, or at least sits out and stalls your opponents until you can deal with the situation.
If you have 4UUU, you've got Sheoldred and the game now. If you don't, people are going to be too focused on getting rid of Memnarch to worry about letting you recover the situation in the normal fashion (i.e. you can still pile Self-Replicators up, it'll just be slower... and they'll still want to kill Memnarch ahead of all the Self-Replicators. Natch).
But yeah, YMMV, obviously. Depends on whether you want the long-game version or the I-win-as-quickly-as-possible-or-scoop-trying version, as per usual.
10x Island
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Buried Ruin
2x Inventors' Fair
Creatures (26)
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Etherium Sculptor
4x Foundry Inspector
2x Master of Etherium
4x Jhoira's Familiar
4x Mishra's Self-Replicator
4x Sandstone Oracle
4x Semblance Anvil
4x Thoughtcast
1x Eldrazi Monument
1x The Immortal Sun
1x Loreseeker's Stone
1x Darksteel Forge
Hey team, I've been thinking about building around Jhoira's Familiar since it seems like it's one of the most powerful creatures printed in Dominaria. I'm looking for suggestions on how to finish up this deck to ensure that I'm able to reliably close games out against multiple adversaries. I'll mostly be playing against 3 opponents (FFA), Legacy B&R list and a relatively tight budget. Just curious how other people would build this type of list.
The gist of the deck is simple; cast a slew of cost reducers and combo off with things like Mishra's Self-Replicator and Sandstone Oracle. The former is bonkers with cheap/free spells because means that you can spend all of your mana on producing a massive army of robots. The latter refills your hand with cheap/free spells which is ideal when you have this much ramp. The deck wins by chaining off into Self-Replicaters fueled by Master of Etherium and The Immortal Sun to buff them.
I'm also trying to think of the best way to add things like Tangle Wire, Lodestone Golem, Smokestack, Sunder and Spine of Ish Sah because this seems like it would be a solid Stax strategy. Mishra's Self-Replicator is especially brutal with cards like Smokestack. I also love the idea of having Sunder and Sandstone Oracle in the same deck because that's a ton of cards.
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And would Mirrorworks be in place?
By the way, the title doesn’t seem to fit the question.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Mirrorworks does seem sweet. You also reminded me about Mishra's Self-Replicator which seems bonkers for this type of shell.
What do you mean? Ensoul Artifact is a critical card for the strategy. I was goldfishing the deck and Ensoul Artifact on a turn 1 Chromatic Star proved to be an extremely quick clock. It let me kill a player every 4 circuits.
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Happy to have helped, though.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
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How about Mycosynth golem ? ...you could get that thing into play (and the rest of your deck) in no time ?
Vedalken Archmage would allow you to draw even more...if you feel the need for it.
Considered all of these and more but, as you said, they receive no benefit from my cost reduction effects and I only have so much room for card draw. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing them as singletons but I wouldn't want to add a ton of them unless I tweaked the deck to have an additional 4x Chromatic Star or something along those lines.
Considered that one as well but it seems too win-more. After all, i's just another cost reducer and it's by far and away the most expensive one. It's strong, don't get me wrong, I just don't think that it's going to win me many games that I wasn't already going to crush.
Note that I don't mind any of these suggestions, I'm just struggling to think of what I could even cut for them. "Going big" isn't my issue I don't think.
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Chief of the Foundry: +1/+1 is not that big of a bonus and you will not always have 20 of these 2/2 for the +1/+1 bonus to be a huge difference. I would rather run Coat of Arms or something similar...the coat will be cheap to play (2 ?) and will have a much bigger impact than the Chief on your assembly-worker army.
Semblance Anvil: I am worried about you putting 2 cards in one...but I understand that it's your only mana-reducing card that wouldn't die to a Wrath of God
I'm wondering if Ichor Wellspring is worth playing...it would be free to play most of the time...you draw a card and it's a small safety if someone destroys all artifacts. Seems better than Prophetic Prism to me...you won't be looking for your blue mana anyway with 12 lands that can generate blue mana.
Drawing a tonne of cards and playing out your whole hand every turn past turn 5 is the aim I assume?
Just some idea's;
Given how much something like Fracturing Gust would suck, have you considered a Darksteel Forge or two?
How about Helm of Possession to steal potential problems from your opponents?
If you're considering Smokestack, you'd be able to steal whatever resistance or token producers they might have.
Mimic Vat or Conjurer's Closet to get more out of Sandstone Oracle?
Lastly, I assume Chief of the Foundry is a budget/flex option here, or an option you want that costs zero mana.
Have you looked at Signal Pest, Master of Etherium or Steel Overseer?
I agree that Chief is suspect but I want the deck to be as low-to-the curve as possible. It's very important that I'm able to empty my hand. That spot is definitely not set-in-stone though. I'm kinda thinking Eldrazi Monument because it shores up one of my biggest weaknesses.
Anvil is one of the best cards in the deck and I don't see myself cutting it anytime soon. It's a Sol Ring for every spell that I play and I don't care about 2-for-1s when I'm playing a whack of Sandstone Oracles. If it dies to removal then it dies to removal, but I probably wasn't winning that game regardless.
Prophetic Prism vs Ichor Wellspring is close but I've played these kinds of decks before and I'd rather have the colored mana. I'm not going to beat Creeping Corrosion either way and having more sources early on does matter.
Exactly.
Forge is expensive (mana wise) even for me. I might have to roll with Eldrazi Monument since it fills multiple roles.
Helm, Vat and Closet are decent but the deck is too tight for slots.
Steel Overseer is like $20.00 or I'd run it.
I forgot about Master and that card is sweet!
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The main plan was originally to copy a bunch of Lodestone Golems and then lords as a secondary but I found that the lord plan was way more deadly and consistent and often times, by the time I could get a bunch of golems out, it either wasn't enough to stabilize, or the game was already won anyway.
Yes, I originally had a similar build planned that also had Helm of Awakening but it was basically just a bad combo deck so I switched off of that plan. It was:
6x Island
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Buried Ruin
2x Inventors' Fair
4x Etherium Sculptor
4x Foundry Inspector
4x Jhoira's Familiar
4x Sandstone Oracle
Spells (22)
4x Chromatic Star
4x Prophetic Prism
4x Helm of Awakening
4x Semblance Anvil
2x Aetherflux Reservoir
4x Thoughtcast
Goldfished the deck a couple of times but wasn't impressed. This style of deck is begging for broken mana like Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt and Sol Ring to make it sing.
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What's Memnarch worth these days? Pretty sure there's a FtV copy that's going to be under $10. I should probably go and check.
Anyway, if it's somewhat budget, run it. Even just a single copy. It's a one-card match-winner that has to be answered. I have seen it smashed into decks like this time and again, and people get too fixated on blowing Memnarch off the board to concentrate on actually getting rid of your combo pieces. (Like, srsly... Padeem? OK. Darksteel Forge? Sure. Clock of Omens or Paradox Engine? Why not. Memnarch? KILL IT! BURN IT! IT MUST DIE!!!)
And it's historic, too.
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Yes!! LOL, I've seen this exact instance in the flesh. It's like when someone drops a Tidespout Tyrant....
This deck isn't especially likely to have 7 lands nor UUU available to it. That's more of a control card.
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If you're not reaching 7, why is Darksteel Forge in the deck?
Srsly, I'd throw one in just because it draws fire and has to be dealt with, and can snatch a win from nowhere if it isn't.
If you can't activate it, or it takes you two turns to steal something? Big whoop, at least it's sitting out there being a threat and rattlesnake, and maybe stealing something and being a threat. People will aim for that instead of the guys you're probably actually going to win with.
I get that this is probably the win-or-die-trying list, though - consider a singleton Memnarch the "break glass in case of emergency" game win solution for the deck.
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You're comparing apples to oranges. My deck is nothing but "your spells cost N less" effects so getting to "9 mana" for Darksteel Forge is reasonable. I don't care about Mem's CC, that's totally irrelevant, I care about his much his activated abilities cost. It's 4UUU to steal something and it's not reduced by my ramp effects. I could spend 2 turns stealing something or I could put 14+ power into play with Mishra's Self-Replicator.
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Yep, most times that should work, too.
Memnarch is for the moments where Sheoldred or something equally horrible is across the table and cramping your style. It either steals your problem, or at least sits out and stalls your opponents until you can deal with the situation.
If you have 4UUU, you've got Sheoldred and the game now. If you don't, people are going to be too focused on getting rid of Memnarch to worry about letting you recover the situation in the normal fashion (i.e. you can still pile Self-Replicators up, it'll just be slower... and they'll still want to kill Memnarch ahead of all the Self-Replicators. Natch).
But yeah, YMMV, obviously. Depends on whether you want the long-game version or the I-win-as-quickly-as-possible-or-scoop-trying version, as per usual.
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