So, have I missed anything obvious out of the toolbox?
Have I got the number of copies of Open the Armory correct?
Should I play something different to Skyknight Legionnaire (i.e. just play something more powerful like Paladin en-Vec and take my lumps with fliers)?
I feel like Comeuppance has overperformed for me in Sunforger builds. It's such a powerful effect that people will actively avoid attacking you while you have an attached Sunforger. Prid3 isn't here yet, but if he was, he'd tell you that Master Warcraft doesn't do what a lot of people think it does and is probably significantly less good than you hoped. Debt of Loyalty often lets you snipe and gain control of the best thing on the board in response to a Wrath.
I like Squadron Hawk as a flier as opposed to Skyknight Legionnaire. Right now your creatures compete with Sunforger in the 3-drop slot so having one come out at 2 is nice. I don't think you'll miss the extra point of power much; with a Sunforger equipped they both kill an opponent in 4 attacks.
Hmm... Puresteel Paladin is tempting, given it's a two-drop and a Knight...
... maybe I should just take the hit and source a few? Do we need a full playset?
But if you want a serious answer, I would say no - the draw isn't really a consideration, equipping without paying for it is why I play it, but then I play with SFM, Ancient Den-style lands & a single Enlightened Tutor in there too. ET in there with Mistveil Plains helps the deck get the best out of PP. I haven't tried exemplar in this deck FWIW.
I find PP is simply redundancy for KTC. That said, being a two drop is definitely good, but it does require WW, so unless you have the manabase to support it, it might be hit & miss to play by T2 or 3.
Bumping this one. Adding Puresteel Paladins, along with artifact land to reach Metalcraft, ended up turning this deck bonkers in playtesting.
It got marched out in a three-player game last week for the first time, Crackling Doomed one player out of the game, and the beat the other one out using Mirran Crusader wearing Sunforger. Promising build!
Yes, Kazuul's Toll Collector is potentially better. By all means give it a go. I just had my tribal pants on today.
Yes, my landbase is obviously salted to taste. You could easily achieve much the same thing with basics, Evolving Wilds and a few cheap duals instead of all the stuff that's $10+. I don't think it makes too much of a difference here - it really only helps you cast the stuff out of your hand when your Sunforgers aren't ready.
Yes, I probably deserve heat for wasting a slot on Shred Memory. There's probably a better way of tutoring for Puresteel Paladin.
I don't understand how you guys always play with 0 creatures. I feel weird if I have less than 30
Well, either I remove all my opponents' creatures, or they all remove each other's for me, sooooo....
There's a reason I've gone with a whole mess of things that are either indestructible or have heavy protection here... lots of removal in my meta.
Also I have a question: What tribal deck means to you? Only knights allowed? 1/3th of the deck must be same tribe (tribal wars)? Spells must feel "tribe ish"? Is it ok for knights to have some soldiers as squires (the lads who carry the knights weapon )?
Definitely to each their own, but I wanted stuff that worked with Knight Exemplar specifically, so that tied all my creatures in to being Knights. That was mostly because Knights with Sticks is a pretty successful archetype in my cube, and one of my buddies has pulled this off before (the primary reason Mirran Crusader got a gig, too... that thing is horrible when holding nasty equipment).
But you do you, for sure!
What you say makes sense, but if the context is creating a knight tribal deck with sunforger its not that helpful. You literally cannot make a knight deck without any knights and you cannot use sunforger if all the creatures are dead. In a removal heavy meta I don't think running 13 creatures is the way to go. Instead I would like to fill the deck with cheap and resilient creatures.
What would that deck look like? Would it have a significantly better shot of winning than the current list?
Not sure how you feel about non-knights in the deck, but Brass Squire and Auriok Windwalker allow you to skip paying the 3 mana equip cost, and let you activate multiple times on opponent's turns. I built a commander deck around sunforger, and those two cards have turned into the primary removal targets in the deck.
Creatures - 12
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Skyknight Legionnaire (Need to at least pretend I can do flying defense here, and these are decent at attacking too)
Sunforgers - 4
4 Sunforger (What, you expected a different number?)
The Toolbox - 20
3 Open the Armory (Sunforger fetch, totally not instant. I am too poor to put Enlightened Tutor in here)
2 Crackling Doom (Awesome card makes us go Mardu)
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Utter End
1 Unmake
1 Terminate
1 Unlicensed Disintegration
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Mirrorweave
1 Punishing Fire
1 Honor the Fallen
1 Tithe
1 Price of Progress
1 Silence
1 Master Warcraft
1 Deflecting Palm
Land - 23
4 Mistveil Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
6 Plains
6 Mountain
5 Swamp
So, have I missed anything obvious out of the toolbox?
Have I got the number of copies of Open the Armory correct?
Should I play something different to Skyknight Legionnaire (i.e. just play something more powerful like Paladin en-Vec and take my lumps with fliers)?
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Shouldn't you run a sweeper like Austere Command?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
(It does work om Austere Command.)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
My sunforger deck is R/W. I've not tried running black. My deck is more equip/artefact focussed.
We share quite a few cards, my deck also runs Benevolent Offering, Comeuppance, Orim's Thunder, Return to Dust & Puresteel Paladin.
PP helps to save your mana for your opponents turns, but does demand you run artefact lands.
I also run Kazuul's Toll Collector, and between these two Heartseeker demands attention.
It's a very conditional choice, but for large MP games a card like Hidetsugu's Second Rite might be interesting....
20x Land
4x Mistveil Plains
Creatures (17)
4x Relic Seeker
2x Reassembling Skeleton
4x Kazuul's Toll Collector
4x Mirran Crusader
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x Stonehewer Giant
1x Sun Titan
2x Swords to Plowshares
4x Sunforger
4x Crackling Doom
1x Painful Truths
2x Utter End
1x Return to Dust
1x Comeuppance
1x Bonehoard
1x Heartseeker
2x Tragic Arrogance
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Boros Charm
Hallowed Moonlight
Chaos Warp
Eerie Interlude/Ghostway
Kolaghan's Command
Wear // Tear
Wild Ricochet
I also like the idea of including Puresteel Paladin (with artifact lands and/or more cheap equipment in case Sunforger is extracted/removed) and Sun Titan/Stonehewer Giant -- really, just more bodies to carry the equipment.
SUPER LATE EDIT: I like Phyrexian Metamorph, as well -- it's always decent as extra copies of Knight Exemplar, and it can be even more useful if you end up running Puresteel Paladin.
... maybe I should just take the hit and source a few? Do we need a full playset?
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Of course not, we don't even need to play mtg.
But if you want a serious answer, I would say no - the draw isn't really a consideration, equipping without paying for it is why I play it, but then I play with SFM, Ancient Den-style lands & a single Enlightened Tutor in there too. ET in there with Mistveil Plains helps the deck get the best out of PP. I haven't tried exemplar in this deck FWIW.
I find PP is simply redundancy for KTC. That said, being a two drop is definitely good, but it does require WW, so unless you have the manabase to support it, it might be hit & miss to play by T2 or 3.
It got marched out in a three-player game last week for the first time, Crackling Doomed one player out of the game, and the beat the other one out using Mirran Crusader wearing Sunforger. Promising build!
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Puresteel Paladin
1 Paladin en-Vec
The Sauce - 7
4 Sunforger
3 Open the Armory
The Sunforger Toolbox - 16
4 Crackling Doom
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Mirrorweave
1 Path to Exile
1 Price of Progress
1 Punishing Fire
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Return to Dust
1 Terminate
1 Tithe
1 Unlicensed Disintegration
1 Unmake
1 Utter End
1 Shred Memory
Land - 23
4 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
2 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Nomad Outpost
1 Arcane Lighthouse
Yes, Kazuul's Toll Collector is potentially better. By all means give it a go. I just had my tribal pants on today.
Yes, my landbase is obviously salted to taste. You could easily achieve much the same thing with basics, Evolving Wilds and a few cheap duals instead of all the stuff that's $10+. I don't think it makes too much of a difference here - it really only helps you cast the stuff out of your hand when your Sunforgers aren't ready.
Yes, I probably deserve heat for wasting a slot on Shred Memory. There's probably a better way of tutoring for Puresteel Paladin.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Well, either I remove all my opponents' creatures, or they all remove each other's for me, sooooo....
There's a reason I've gone with a whole mess of things that are either indestructible or have heavy protection here... lots of removal in my meta.
Definitely to each their own, but I wanted stuff that worked with Knight Exemplar specifically, so that tied all my creatures in to being Knights. That was mostly because Knights with Sticks is a pretty successful archetype in my cube, and one of my buddies has pulled this off before (the primary reason Mirran Crusader got a gig, too... that thing is horrible when holding nasty equipment).
But you do you, for sure!
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Not really. You gain significant % points by obsoleting huge swaths of your opponents' decks while playing nothing but relevant spells yourself. After all, if they're holding on to throngs of "Doom Blades" and you're playing nothing but Preordains, Innocent Bloods, Baleful Strixes, Abyssal Gatekeepers, Impulses, Dimir Signets, Fellwar Stones, Manifold Insights, Vona's Hungers, Damnations, Fact or Fictions, Dark Petitions, Briberys, Recurring Insights, Demon of Dark Schemes, Sepulchral Primordials and Nezahal, Primal Tides then the vast majority of their interaction is worthless against you. Why waste time making weak exchanges when you can bypass their entire gameplan? I don't want to waste time slogging through spot removal when I can make anyone playing it feel like a chump.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
What would that deck look like? Would it have a significantly better shot of winning than the current list?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold