My question for you is? Is this decent enough? Are there too many taplands? Should I stick with Esper and add some spot removal (go for the throat?) or stick with UW and narrow down the mana base some? Any suggestions are helpful!
Full disclosure: I have not tried playing Miracles in multiplayer or otherwise so I'm not speaking from personal experience here.
I think running four Swords to Plowshares is plenty of spot removal for a FFA setting (where it usually underperforms mass removal or other things you could be doing with those deck slots). I definitely wouldn't put in a third color just for that sake. Baleful Strix is a very nice card but also doesn't seem like enough to warrant the opportunity cost of going WUB instead of just WU. Just sticking to those two colors could really open up your mana base, allowing you to play a lot more ETB untapped lands and greatly increasing your chance of being able to cast a Ponder or Brainstorm on turn 1.
Makes sense, black does allow running of Fleshbag Marauder type effects though. Thoughts on decent lands aside from basics or other cards to fill out the deck?
The best lands for Miracles lists are Fetchlands as they boast immense synergy with library manipulation spells such as Top, B.Storm and Ponder. After all, they enable you to keep the cards that you like while shuffling the duds away. Even "bad" Fetchlands such as Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse are still extremely valuable when you're playing with this much manipulation. All this deck really needs is Fetches and Basics so there's no need for additional ETB lands.
I sincerely doubt that you need 4x Luminarch Ascension, 2x Mentor and 4x Entreat as win conditions. I would add some actual sources of card draw such as Mystic Remora, Predict, Rhystic Study, Painful Truths, Sphinx's Revelation, Syphon Mind, etc. Future Sight is also bonkers with Sensei's Divining Top and so I recommend running 1 of those as well. Think of it as a "Planeswalker" of sorts that will automatically win the game on its own if left unchecked.
Just sticking to those two colors could really open up your mana base, allowing you to play a lot more ETB untapped lands and greatly increasing your chance of being able to cast a Ponder or Brainstorm on turn 1.
Casting a turn 1 Brainstorm is a massive mistake 99.99% of the time. He needs to sandbag those for as long as possible to set up insane Miracle plays in the mid-to-lategame.
Hmmmmm, I wonder what I could take out for some counterspells or other disruption. I'm a fan of Gitaxian Probe as well.
Miracles doesn't have room for a card like Probe. The deck usually runs 12 deck manipulation spells but it still needs a critical mass of "spells that matter" (removal, win conditions, etc.) in order to avoid losing to a couple pieces of interaction. That leaves no room for a card like Probe.
Otherwise cut Preordain or Ponder. You definitely don't need 16 library manipulation spells. Easy cut IMO.
I've played against Miracles in legacy play plenty over the years.
I can attest to Luminarch Ascension being a VERY good inclusion for MP play, especially if you use Terminus to it's full potential.
Monastary Mentor may be very effective for spamming the field in legacy duels, but I don't know how effective this card might be for MP games.
Entreat the Angels is a freakin great card for duels and MP alike.
My only worry is that Miracles doesn't have much beef for protection outside of sweepers. A few Ghostly Prison-types would be less-than optimal, but could be quite useful for the large games where multiple players are aiming to take you down.
My only worry is that Miracles doesn't have much beef for protection outside of sweepers. A few Ghostly Prison-types would be less-than optimal, but could be quite useful for the large games where multiple players are aiming to take you down.
Miracles kills too slowly to lean on these kinds of cards. It's trivially easy to pay the 2 when needed.
I tested this deck for fun to see how it would fare with a ton of Propagandas as opposed to a couple. The math and testing revealed that your probability of drawing 1 or more by turn 3 is essentially 100%, I already knew that would be the case going in, but I was impressed at how frequently it drew 1 or more by turn 3 and 2 or more by turn 4. I was starting a huge % of my games by casting them on turns 3 and 4 at which point attacking me became virtually impossible. After all, you literally have to spend your entire turn's worth of mana to send a single critter into the Red Zone. It was certainly more powerful than I anticipated. Now, I'm not saying that this is the best way to build the deck or anything, but I do think that having "all of the Propagandas" is better than jamming 2 and hoping for the best.
Btw, originally I copied your deck but for some reason you have ton of Plains in it and for the life of me I can't figure out why that is. Islands are significantly more important my friend. You need to swap those numbers asap.
I tested this deck for fun to see how it would fare with a ton of Propagandas....
This isn't exactly what I was thinking, but I have played decks before with 4x Ghostly Prison & 4x Propaganda. A deck like that is tedious with red/black/blue opponents who lack a meaningful way to deal with enchantments permanently.
My thought was only a single 4x set (I'm thinking to aid Luminarch Ascension mainly), but a full 8 would definitely make this deck reliably difficult to kill and reliably setup LA even better(er).
Considering how difficult a deck like this might be to put down (unless you get alpha-struck by the whole table), I'm not sure diluting the deck for lifegain, outside of Sphinx, is actually necessary. A single True Conviction might be useful otherwise.
Considering how difficult a deck like this might be to put down (unless you get alpha-struck by the whole table), I'm not sure diluting the deck for lifegain, outside of Sphinx, is actually necessary. A single True Conviction might be useful otherwise.
Eh I'd rather run Authority of the Consuls. The more that I play with that card the more that I love it. I'm a huge fan of the:
Yeah that'll work.
I would personally play Terminus alongside Planar Collapse just because I expect decks that don't need to attack with their creatures to win.
But I guess we can't really call this deck Miracles anymore without the ole' Term either!
So I jammed the 8x Prison style deck for about a week and it does a lot of work. You're pretty much untouchable past a certain point, even with everyone directing all hate they can find at you. While Future Sight+Top did an absurd amount of damage when it was out, I didn't get it out that often and when I did it felt very win-more.
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1 Council's Judgment
4 Entreat the Angels
4 Luminarch Ascension
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Baleful Strix
4 arcane sanctum
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Silence
My question for you is? Is this decent enough? Are there too many taplands? Should I stick with Esper and add some spot removal (go for the throat?) or stick with UW and narrow down the mana base some? Any suggestions are helpful!
I think running four Swords to Plowshares is plenty of spot removal for a FFA setting (where it usually underperforms mass removal or other things you could be doing with those deck slots). I definitely wouldn't put in a third color just for that sake. Baleful Strix is a very nice card but also doesn't seem like enough to warrant the opportunity cost of going WUB instead of just WU. Just sticking to those two colors could really open up your mana base, allowing you to play a lot more ETB untapped lands and greatly increasing your chance of being able to cast a Ponder or Brainstorm on turn 1.
Try to keep that head on your shoulders!
The best lands for Miracles lists are Fetchlands as they boast immense synergy with library manipulation spells such as Top, B.Storm and Ponder. After all, they enable you to keep the cards that you like while shuffling the duds away. Even "bad" Fetchlands such as Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse are still extremely valuable when you're playing with this much manipulation. All this deck really needs is Fetches and Basics so there's no need for additional ETB lands.
I would never run both Plows and Strixes so pick one and ditch the other because there's no sense in running this many marginal removal effects. If anything you'll want more mass removal such as Tariff, Planar Collapse, Toxic Deluge, Grasp of Fate, Sublime Exhalation, etc. Fleshbag Marauder is clearly fine too.
I sincerely doubt that you need 4x Luminarch Ascension, 2x Mentor and 4x Entreat as win conditions. I would add some actual sources of card draw such as Mystic Remora, Predict, Rhystic Study, Painful Truths, Sphinx's Revelation, Syphon Mind, etc. Future Sight is also bonkers with Sensei's Divining Top and so I recommend running 1 of those as well. Think of it as a "Planeswalker" of sorts that will automatically win the game on its own if left unchecked.
Casting a turn 1 Brainstorm is a massive mistake 99.99% of the time. He needs to sandbag those for as long as possible to set up insane Miracle plays in the mid-to-lategame.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Revised edition, will eventually get flooded strands and other on-color fetches.
1x Council's Judgment
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Entreat the Angels
4x Evolving Wilds
1x Future Sight
1x Grasp of Fate
3x Luminarch Ascension
2x Monastery Mentor
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
4x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Supreme Verdict
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Temporal Mastery
4x Terminus
4x Terramorphic Expanse
7x plains
5x islands
Hmmmmm, I wonder what I could take out for some counterspells or other disruption. I'm a fan of Gitaxian Probe as well.
Miracles doesn't have room for a card like Probe. The deck usually runs 12 deck manipulation spells but it still needs a critical mass of "spells that matter" (removal, win conditions, etc.) in order to avoid losing to a couple pieces of interaction. That leaves no room for a card like Probe.
Otherwise cut Preordain or Ponder. You definitely don't need 16 library manipulation spells. Easy cut IMO.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I can attest to Luminarch Ascension being a VERY good inclusion for MP play, especially if you use Terminus to it's full potential.
Monastary Mentor may be very effective for spamming the field in legacy duels, but I don't know how effective this card might be for MP games.
Entreat the Angels is a freakin great card for duels and MP alike.
My only worry is that Miracles doesn't have much beef for protection outside of sweepers. A few Ghostly Prison-types would be less-than optimal, but could be quite useful for the large games where multiple players are aiming to take you down.
Good Luck.
He can spiral stupidly out of control once you assemble Future Sight + Sensei's Divining Top.
Miracles kills too slowly to lean on these kinds of cards. It's trivially easy to pay the 2 when needed.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
8x Island
4x Plains
4x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Evolving Wilds
Creatures (2)
2x Monastery Mentor
Spells (38)
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Luminarch Ascension
2x Counterspell
2x Entreat the Angels
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Propaganda
1x Grasp of Fate
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Future Sight
4x Terminus
2x Temporal Mastery
I tested this deck for fun to see how it would fare with a ton of Propagandas as opposed to a couple. The math and testing revealed that your probability of drawing 1 or more by turn 3 is essentially 100%, I already knew that would be the case going in, but I was impressed at how frequently it drew 1 or more by turn 3 and 2 or more by turn 4. I was starting a huge % of my games by casting them on turns 3 and 4 at which point attacking me became virtually impossible. After all, you literally have to spend your entire turn's worth of mana to send a single critter into the Red Zone. It was certainly more powerful than I anticipated. Now, I'm not saying that this is the best way to build the deck or anything, but I do think that having "all of the Propagandas" is better than jamming 2 and hoping for the best.
Btw, originally I copied your deck but for some reason you have ton of Plains in it and for the life of me I can't figure out why that is. Islands are significantly more important my friend. You need to swap those numbers asap.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This isn't exactly what I was thinking, but I have played decks before with 4x Ghostly Prison & 4x Propaganda. A deck like that is tedious with red/black/blue opponents who lack a meaningful way to deal with enchantments permanently.
My thought was only a single 4x set (I'm thinking to aid Luminarch Ascension mainly), but a full 8 would definitely make this deck reliably difficult to kill and reliably setup LA even better(er).
Considering how difficult a deck like this might be to put down (unless you get alpha-struck by the whole table), I'm not sure diluting the deck for lifegain, outside of Sphinx, is actually necessary. A single True Conviction might be useful otherwise.
Eh I'd rather run Authority of the Consuls. The more that I play with that card the more that I love it. I'm a huge fan of the:
5x Plains
5x Island
4x Azorius Chancery
4x Sejiri Refuge
4x Tranquil Cove
4x Authority of the Consuls
4x Mystic Remora
4x Planar Collapse
4x Luminarch Ascension
4x Propaganda
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Grasp of Fate
3x Sphere of Safety
3x Sigil of the Empty Throne
4x Open the Vaults
Style decks. Obviously you can add things like Rhystic Study, Windborn Muse, Magus of the Tabernacle, Armageddon or even splash Green but you get the idea.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yeah that'll work.
I would personally play Terminus alongside Planar Collapse just because I expect decks that don't need to attack with their creatures to win.
But I guess we can't really call this deck Miracles anymore without the ole' Term either!