I began the annual Multiplayer Power Rankings with the aim of producing a somewhat agreeable list of the best Multiplayer cards available. People designing 1vs1 cubes have had a similar list available for years (and EDH is probably not far behind). The Power Rankings votes got close enough each year that we can at least agree on the top however-many cards, and we were able to continue adding to the list by voting periodically on new editions. And so we have this thread.
What Is This List?
It's a look at the last five years' worth of Power Rankings / Best Multiplayer Card vote results, noting what is consistently voted highly. If it's been voted for fairly highly in at least three of the four years of Power Rankings, or it received high marks in a Best MP Cards vote, it's probably on the list. In other words, it only contains cards that multiple people in multiple years have considered worthy of a high vote, or if it's newer, only a card that the majority of voters agreed was worthy of inclusion.
What Is This List NOT?
It doesn't replace the guides in the top of the Multiplayer forum, not by a long shot. This is simply a boring list of cards - it doesn't replace the strategy, decklists and card choices that the guides delve into in great detail. This is really just an entree that gives you some idea of how to acquire a good card base for Multiplayer deck-building.
How Did You Come Up With It?
I totalled up the last four years' worth of rankings, and then averaged each card's yearly ranking position by the number of years it had been a valid vote for. If I'd gone off pure votes received, it would have discounted the fact that some years we had a Top 20, while others we had a Top 10... not to mention the fact that some years we split gold out into guilds etc. etc...
I had two problems that I had to consider while doing this. Firstly, if a card didn't receive a vote one year, does that mean it was suddenly outclassed, or that everyone just forgot it, or that it was Card #11 on everyone's list in a year we only needed a Top 10 for? Cards in this category received a ranking of #72 in those years - this was close to the lowest ranking received anywhere by any card that actually got voted for in a particular year, but didn't punish a card too much if people simply neglected it for a year. Secondly, if a card had only been printed in the last year or two, it had the potential to be overvalued, so we needed to at least attach some weight to the previous years in which it hadn't existed. To get around this, cards that were not a valid vote in earlier years received a ranking of #15 in those years. This meant that cards overvalued in 2014 and/or 2015 didn't overcrowd legitimately good cards from previous years (I'm looking at you, Jazal Goldmane, you big tease, you... #10 in 2015, and you want to be considered an all-timer? Get in line!). After all this, if a card's final average ranking was below 30.5, I considered it good enough to get onto this list.
From 2016 onwards, we began to hold periodical Best Multiplayer Cards votes on the new sets in order to top this list up. Any card ending up with an average of 4.0 or higher was considered worthy of inclusion.
Is this perfect? Heck no. I tinkered with the numbers until it looked about right! Does this mean worthy cards missed the list? You bet. But at least it gives us a list and a starting point for discussion. And it gives us something to compare future cards to.
Where The Votes Are From
You can see the votes given to all cards in the four previous Power Rankings in these threads:
THE LIST
This list is split up into four sections. As budget is taken into account, the pricings were accurate as of the last update of this thread (July 27th 2017), and went off the card's current value on PucaTrade (which is an average of many great things, with 1 point = 1 US penny for the purposes of this thread).
1. In Our Dreams
Firstly, let's get the cards out of the way that we will be lucky to ever own single copies of. Anything over $30 a copy falls into this list. This threshold was chosen simply because it keeps the Khans fetches out (for now), and they are still easy enough to pull from a booster at the time of posting (so you do actually stand a chance of having more than one copy of those things!). Either way, you may recognize a few cards from Magic's history in this list...
Avacyn, Angel of Hope. Strong white finisher, great in Kaalia and reanimator decks (among others). In dire need of a decent reprint.
Moat. Classically locks the vast majority of attackers down while you combo out.
Replenish. Wonderful utility card for enchantment decks. Can be brokenly good next to discard outlets. Now up here due to being a Reserved List card.
Bazaar of Baghdad. Incredible card selection, especially with Dredge decks and the like.
Volrath's Stronghold. Excellent hard-to-stop creature recurser for black decks. Wonderful when paired with black card drawers like Necropotence.
2. If You Don't Like Friends
These cards are undoubtedly powerful, and budget enough that they can be acquired fairly easily... but do they make the game fun? Quite the opposite. Most of the cards listed here are the type that your playgroup will quietly ask you to not play too often. Yes, they work, but use at your own (and your playgroup's own) discretion.
Balance. Completely budget, but capable of some of the most one-sided resets you'll ever see (including this one).
Limited Resources. Locks the game down tight. I have seen Player 1 in a 12-player free for all go Plains, Limited Resources on Turn 1. It wasn't fun.
Armageddon / Ravages of War. Will it win you games? Yep. Will your opponents enjoy it? Definitely not.
Humility. Basically turns the game into a token production festival, shutting a large number of decks down in the process.
Stasis. The classic bring-the-game-to-a-stop card.
Braids, Cabal Minion. The headliner of Stax decks has fallen foul of the EDH banned list in the past for good reason.
Exsanguinate. Budget, but non-interactive to the point that some have banned it from their playgroup.
Umezawa's Jitte. Currently under $30 thanks to FtV:Lore. Still not fun.
Sundering Titan. Essentially targetted land destruction stapled to a finisher's body.
Sensei's Divining Top. Oh, it's good... but it's also universally hated for making your opponents watch you fiddle with the top of your library for five-minute periods.
Winter Orb. Stops the game dead in a similar manner to Stasis.
Staff of Domination. The centrepiece of many non-interactive infinite combos that take several minutes to play out.
3. Expensive But Worth It
These cards fall in the price range of US$5-30 a copy, meaning they definitely aren't budget options. But if you've got the money to spend, someone's getting you a birthday present, or you're just looking for something to push your deck over the edge, rest assured that these cards are worth the money you spend on them.
Stoneforge Mystic. Somehow still under US$30 a copy, goodness knows how. Tutor, combat trick and cost reduction all for a handful of mana.
Enlightened Tutor. One-mana tutor. That's all the words you need, really...
Cataclysm. Particularly brutal reset that can be played around to great effect (and naaasty with It That Betrays).
Luminarch Ascension. Only just on this list (currently sitting a little over $6). It's possible to build creatureless decks around this, good with Enchantress too.
Grasp of Fate. An Oblivion Ring for all opponents? Sign me up!
Consecrated Sphinx. Busted levels of card advantage, and a half-decent finisher to boot if you can keep it out.
Phyrexian Metamorph. Around $7 a copy, but worth every cent. Particularly broken in blue artifact decks.
Rhystic Study. Excellent card advantage, and can also play like a tax effect.
Expropriate. Pretty much wins the game on resolution - increasingly so if there are more players.
Damnation. Because black really needed its own Wrath of God, didn't it...
Kokusho, the Evening Star. The ultimate rattlesnake finisher, and on the end of many a busted reanimation combo.
Griselbrand. The current darling of reanimator decks in Legacy for a good reason.
Massacre Wurm. Takes token and weenie decks to pieces.
Sheoldred, Whispering One. A one-card combo, and one of the top black multiplayer creatures accordingly.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. People keep finding new combos to pair with Bad Mike. He plays gorgeously with black's usual reanimation and graveyard strategies.
Defense of the Heart. Complete rattlesnake once out, inevitably fetches your two nastiest creatures. Make one of them Monk Realist, and... well...
Tooth and Nail. The centrepiece card of many green ramp decks. "Tooth and Nail entwined" are four words you don't want to hear from your opponent.
Garruk Wildspeaker. Still yet to be matched in terms of green planeswalkers. Ramp, token production and an easy-to-achieve ultimate all in one neat package.
Genesis Wave. Essentially lets you put your deck on the table. Incredible fun with Elves.
Fetches. Valuable not only because they get the land you want, but also because they allow interplay from the graveyard with things like Deathrite Shaman, Life from the Loam...
Shocks. Probably the best duals readily available to the average kitchen table warrior.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Close to Coffers in terms of ramping. Won't be its current price for much longer.
Academy Ruins. Excellent artifact recursion. Combos well with Expedition Map in particular.
Vesuva. Cloudpost #5-8 is mighty expensive these days.
Kor Haven. Maze of Ith Lite is probably fairer. It's definitely less expensive.
4. The Budget Multiplayer Bombs
This is the list I expect to be most helpful to those starting out - every card under US$5 a copy that will see you winning Multiplayer games over and over. A whole bunch of people have agreed on the worthiness of these things - go and get a playset and try them out yourself if you don't own any yet.
Sun Titan. Readily available these days, and capable of all sorts of shenanigans.
Mirror Entity. Finisher for token decks, capable of all sorts of tribal combos.
Reveillark. Still under $5 only thanks to a Commander 2016 reprinting, but capable of all sorts of broken combos (not the least of which involves Body Double).
Stonehewer Giant. Inside $5 by the skin of its teeth. The budget Stoneforge Mystic. Capable of instantly tutoring up combat tricks. Fun with Quietus Spike.
Mother of Runes. Just brutally efficient and incredibly hard to remove. Fantastic 1-drop.
Wrath of God. Classic reset. And yes, 4th Ed and EMA copies are under $5 each. Go get them.
Swords to Plowshares. Somehow available for under $3 a copy, simply because it's not Modern-legal like Path to Exile. Incredible removal for one mana.
Oblivion Ring. Usually takes care of the table's biggest threat, and leaves its owner scrambling for enchantment removal.
Day of Judgment. Cheap, easily available reset that is close to being on par with Wrath of God.
Martial Coup. Token generator that is also a great one-sided Wrath in the late-game.
Cyclonic Rift. Overloaded more frequently than you would think. The best blue reset available. MM2017 reprint got it back down into budget territory too.
Tinker. Classically busted, close to being on the "If You Don't Like Friends" list, and barely $3.50 a copy.
Rite of Replication. Possibly the most fun you can have in Multiplayer for 9 mana.
Syphon Mind. Goes to another level in multiplayer. Pure card advantage for its cost, fuels reanimation from others' graveyards.
Yawgmoth's Bargain. Necropotence for the masses. Still broken at six mana.
Waste Not. The centrepiece of a very oppressive deck when it goes off. Capable of producing Turn 2 wins.
Phyrexian Arena. Essentially printed as a fixed Necropotence, this is still so good that it has only just dropped back under $5 after a heap of reprintings.
Eternal Witness. Currently sitting just under $5 for all copies. Wonderful utility in Simic bounce decks with Deadeye Navigator, as well as Golgari decks with any number of reanimation tricks.
Sylvan Primordial. Is this the most busted creature in all of Multiplayer? If it's not, it's close. Banned in EDH for good reason.
Thragtusk. Somehow still under $5 a copy. Having both enters and leaves play triggers equals value galore.
Forgotten Ancient. Grows faster than Taurean Mauler, and then throws its counters around once it has.
Lurking Predators. Produces broken levels of board advantage. Insane paired with creatures that counter spells as they enter the battlefield (e.g. Draining Whelk, Mystic Snake).
Fastbond. One of the more broken sub-$5 cards. Capable of aiding all manner of combos.
Scavenging Ooze. Incredible utility for a 2-drop, and disrupts reanimator decks to boot.
Green Sun's Zenith. The best green creature tutor available. Only back under here thanks to Eternal Masters. Get them while they're cheap.
Burgeoning. Printed as a "fair" Fastbond, it's anything but in Multiplayer. Reprinted twice in three months to get back down at this price level.
Selvala's Stampede. Depending on the number of players in the game, potentially better than Genesis Wave in certain situations. Cracking fun in 2HG / team games.
Skullclamp. Easily in the top five most broken budget cards in this list. Accelerates token decks to victory.
Lightning Greaves. Like Eternal Witness, currently only on here due to the C15 copy. Get it while it lasts.
Solemn Simulacrum. Card advantage and ramp stapled to an easy-to-cast recursable body.
Steel Hellkite. Evasive finisher that can swing a game when it connects. Destructive against token decks.
It That Betrays. In this list for now thanks to the Duel Decks copy. Destructive, but about as fair as Annihilator gets on a wide body.
Sol Ring. Goes in every deck ever for a reason. Also usually the first card mentioned when a Multiplayer Restricted List is suggested.
Memnarch. Usually the headline act for blue artifact decks. Deadly in combination with Darksteel Forge. Only here due to the FtV:Lore copy being under $4.
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter. Sure, let's give half our spells cascade in a guild that can play in other people's turns... what could possibly go wrong?
Sphinx of the Steel Wind. Premier Tinker target. Hard to stop once out, and can lead to massive life swings.
Cloudpost. One of the most fun ramps decks you can build on a budget. The look on faces when you realise more than one person at the table is playing a Post deck is worth the price of admission alone.
Totally agree with you on Zulaport Cutthroat - only reason it's not in the list was because the 2015 votes stopped short of Battle for Zendikar. If we held them again now, I suspect Zulaport and Blade of Selves would be on the list.
Would it dropBlood Artist off the list completely, though? Don't know... Blood Artist still has its uses. It's mighty good with Grave Pact / Dictate of Erebos where Zulaport is not...
How about a vote in and vote out system every new set?
With every new set you simply ask us our suggestions for entry in the lists.
And we may only suggest entries if we suggest removals as well.
Or... Make separate rounds.
A vote for ten new entries each set and and separate (half) yearly vote to drop cards.
Guideline for the vote must be that your top cards must belong with the best.
So don't vote for color fixing lands unless they're comparable or better than what's already in there.
(Though bad cards will get voted out anyway in the cleanup rounds.)
Yeah, I think I probably need to go with a set review each time (i.e. Best Cards from Set X top 10 vote), but give the set enough time to percolate before we vote. I was pondering waiting for the release of a new set before voting on the old one, but I think we can probably agree on what's awesome out of Battle for Zendikar already (and we're still about 5-6 weeks away from Oath of the Gatewatch). I suspect the BfZ vote list will include Zulaport Cutthroat, then probably Sire of Stagnation, and then a fair bit of daylight.
I'd go with a four-times-a-year thing, but the the supplemental stuff like Commander 2015 throws it out. Might have to be five a year.
So how long's it been since BfZ release? Eight weeks or something? Seems like that might be our vote date (eight weeks post-release). All dependent on my memory, of course.
From there, my next problem is the threshold I use for cards from the individual set votes to make it into this master list. I suspect the answer might be that if a card receives a vote from every single participant it's a fair indication that it belongs on here, but I'll play that one as it comes. Only other issue I will have are the slow-burner cards that no-one figures out are actually awesome in Multiplayer until months after a set release. I'm sure those cards exist, but I can't think of too many recent examples.
So I guess I should get on and create a Best of BfZ Vote Thread, if everyone's happy to do so...
I'd go with a four-times-a-year thing, but the the supplemental stuff like Commander 2015 throws it out. Might have to be five a year.
You could always have four 'stated votings' which occur on set days every year, and then 'supplemental votings' that occur as needed and don't follow a schedule.
Zulaport Cutthroat causes each opponents to lose life whereas Blood Artist only has a single target.
ZC only works when your creatures die, BA works when your opponent's die also.
Stating facts doesn't help move the conversation along. Give us a deck list or a use case to justify your statements and then we can have a conversation!
In case you haven't noticed, this site is the premier place to get information about casual MTG play. If you stroll in here and just throw out some facts with no justification (or even slightly false or inaccurate), you can expect to get a response. If the response is direct and to-the-point and you find that offensive, you would be wise to consider reading books instead of posting comments on the Internet. No one was rude to you; don't expect to be coddled.
And yes, I know that nuance. Still, you can kill all your opponent's simultaneously, rather than one at a time.
Again, this statement is misleading as you don't quantify the environment. It is possible to clear the table 'simultaneously' with BA as well. Each ZC trigger elicits a potential response in the same manner as each BA trigger. 'Simultaneous' is relative based on who may or mat not have a response.
The bottom line is both of these cards are a huge threat in the right shell in a multiplayer environment. Arguing which one is better is a waste of time because we have already proven in multiple threads the merit of both and how each can be better than the other in a given situation.
I wasn't even siding with one or the other in my comment, but rather simply replying to the previous comment questioning why ZC was considered to be "vastly superior in multiplayer" versus BA. It seemed as though that user simply missed the ".. each player loses" versus ".. target player loses". Calling me out for an opinion that I did not provide was in my eyes, rude (because that's just presumptuous).
If you want my opinion, it is this: ZC is easier to build around if your sole purpose is to combo off and defeat all opponents regardless of what your opponents are playing. For example, if your opponents are playing decks that have minimal creatures (i.e. more mid-range or control oriented), then ZC is clearly better than BA purely in terms of the math. In fact, almost any way you put it, ZC is always going to be better than BA UNLESS your opponents are swarming the board early on (turns 1 through 6). This is simply due to the fact that with ZC, all damage from your creatures are multiplied by the number of opponents present, whereas with BA, damage has no multiplication factor. To clarify, here's an example. Say you have 2 opponents that each have 20 life. That means you will need 40 points of life loss to win the game. In one instance, you have 1 ZC, and in the other, you have 1 BA. With the ZC instance, you* need 20 triggers to win. In the other instance, the board* needs to have 40 triggers AND you need a board wipe (likely another turn to play it) to complete the move. If you're relying on your opponents to provide you the bulk of the creatures, your deck probably isn't that consistent. A further point is that it's easier to have more triggers through sacrificing your own creatures. For example, being able to sacrifice creatures that have multiple lives (such as Blisterpod, etc.) is more efficient that destroying one of your opponent's since you are limited to only one trigger per creature.
Keep in mind that decks with a sacrifice theme also tend to include things like grave pact which will gain you extra triggers from blood artist but not Zulaport Cutthroat. Being able to target one player over others with the triggers can also be a benefit.
BA acts as a rattlesnake by dissuading people from casting mass removal in the first place. When all of the damage can be aimed at the person casting wrath of god, potentially taking them out of the game, your board may stick around a little bit longer.
Overall, the cards are so similar in function and power level I would effectively call them functional reprints. Ultimately, if you want one you are likely to want both of them in your deck anyway (if you can find room).
Does everyone consider those six as worthy?
Does 4.0+ seem like a logical cutoff point for the BFZ/OGW/C15 vote? (The #7 card is Crush of Tentacles at 2.8)
Bumping this thread, as we've completed the SOI / EMN / CNS2 Best MP Cards Vote.
Again, a value of 4.0+ seems like a logical cutoff point. For these three sets, this sticks three cards on our list - Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Expropriate and Selvala's Stampede.
I've added these and the six from BFZ / OGW / C15 to our list in the OP and updated the pricings in there.
For those who like to keep track of such things, here are the movements between the pricing tiers since I last updated: Expensive -> I'll Never Own One(i.e. now $30+) Time Spiral, Yawgmoth's Will, Wheel of Fortune, Doubling Season, Ensnaring Bridge, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Metalworker.
Not too many surprises here - most of these cards were just under $30 last I checked (the only rampant spike has been DubSeason, thanks to Atraxa's printing).
It's simply amazing which cards shoot up over time and which one's stay budget.
I wish WotC would just reprint anything repeatedly that goes over $5.
FWIW, Grey Merchant could easily fit into the "if you don't like friends" category, given that sucker with bounce just ends games quickly.
At least Exsanguinate isn't going to hit hard until people have big mana available.
I agree with the 4.0+ score as the benchmark for making the list. After two cycles, the cards with that score match the list from Cz on multiplayer and general use from my observation. Nicely done!
Bumping this thread after completion of the KLD/AER/C16 vote. This brought two new cards onto our list - Panharmonicon and Rashmi, Eternities Crafter, both of which are budget! Hooray!
Here's what has moved between the price categories since last update. I'll Never Own One -> Expensive But Worth It(i.e. now < $30)
The first two got decent reprints in MM2017, while Metalworker is apparently just having a price lull. Get on it before it inevitably rises back over $30.
I'll Never Own One -> Won't Make Friends(i.e. now < $30, but hateful)
VT finally rose back to where it belongs after its EMA reprint, the hype finally caught up to Volrath's Stronghold, and the other three are basically in need of reprinting now.
Expensive But Worth It -> Budget Multiplayer Bombs(i.e. now < $5)
What Is This List?
It's a look at the last five years' worth of Power Rankings / Best Multiplayer Card vote results, noting what is consistently voted highly. If it's been voted for fairly highly in at least three of the four years of Power Rankings, or it received high marks in a Best MP Cards vote, it's probably on the list. In other words, it only contains cards that multiple people in multiple years have considered worthy of a high vote, or if it's newer, only a card that the majority of voters agreed was worthy of inclusion.
What Is This List NOT?
It doesn't replace the guides in the top of the Multiplayer forum, not by a long shot. This is simply a boring list of cards - it doesn't replace the strategy, decklists and card choices that the guides delve into in great detail. This is really just an entree that gives you some idea of how to acquire a good card base for Multiplayer deck-building.
How Did You Come Up With It?
I totalled up the last four years' worth of rankings, and then averaged each card's yearly ranking position by the number of years it had been a valid vote for. If I'd gone off pure votes received, it would have discounted the fact that some years we had a Top 20, while others we had a Top 10... not to mention the fact that some years we split gold out into guilds etc. etc...
I had two problems that I had to consider while doing this. Firstly, if a card didn't receive a vote one year, does that mean it was suddenly outclassed, or that everyone just forgot it, or that it was Card #11 on everyone's list in a year we only needed a Top 10 for? Cards in this category received a ranking of #72 in those years - this was close to the lowest ranking received anywhere by any card that actually got voted for in a particular year, but didn't punish a card too much if people simply neglected it for a year. Secondly, if a card had only been printed in the last year or two, it had the potential to be overvalued, so we needed to at least attach some weight to the previous years in which it hadn't existed. To get around this, cards that were not a valid vote in earlier years received a ranking of #15 in those years. This meant that cards overvalued in 2014 and/or 2015 didn't overcrowd legitimately good cards from previous years (I'm looking at you, Jazal Goldmane, you big tease, you... #10 in 2015, and you want to be considered an all-timer? Get in line!). After all this, if a card's final average ranking was below 30.5, I considered it good enough to get onto this list.
From 2016 onwards, we began to hold periodical Best Multiplayer Cards votes on the new sets in order to top this list up. Any card ending up with an average of 4.0 or higher was considered worthy of inclusion.
Is this perfect? Heck no. I tinkered with the numbers until it looked about right! Does this mean worthy cards missed the list? You bet. But at least it gives us a list and a starting point for discussion. And it gives us something to compare future cards to.
Where The Votes Are From
You can see the votes given to all cards in the four previous Power Rankings in these threads:
THE LIST
This list is split up into four sections. As budget is taken into account, the pricings were accurate as of the last update of this thread (July 27th 2017), and went off the card's current value on PucaTrade (which is an average of many great things, with 1 point = 1 US penny for the purposes of this thread).
1. In Our Dreams
Firstly, let's get the cards out of the way that we will be lucky to ever own single copies of. Anything over $30 a copy falls into this list. This threshold was chosen simply because it keeps the Khans fetches out (for now), and they are still easy enough to pull from a booster at the time of posting (so you do actually stand a chance of having more than one copy of those things!). Either way, you may recognize a few cards from Magic's history in this list...
2. If You Don't Like Friends
These cards are undoubtedly powerful, and budget enough that they can be acquired fairly easily... but do they make the game fun? Quite the opposite. Most of the cards listed here are the type that your playgroup will quietly ask you to not play too often. Yes, they work, but use at your own (and your playgroup's own) discretion.
3. Expensive But Worth It
These cards fall in the price range of US$5-30 a copy, meaning they definitely aren't budget options. But if you've got the money to spend, someone's getting you a birthday present, or you're just looking for something to push your deck over the edge, rest assured that these cards are worth the money you spend on them.
4. The Budget Multiplayer Bombs
This is the list I expect to be most helpful to those starting out - every card under US$5 a copy that will see you winning Multiplayer games over and over. A whole bunch of people have agreed on the worthiness of these things - go and get a playset and try them out yourself if you don't own any yet.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Sticky worthy.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Totally agree with you on Zulaport Cutthroat - only reason it's not in the list was because the 2015 votes stopped short of Battle for Zendikar. If we held them again now, I suspect Zulaport and Blade of Selves would be on the list.
Would it drop Blood Artist off the list completely, though? Don't know... Blood Artist still has its uses. It's mighty good with Grave Pact / Dictate of Erebos where Zulaport is not...
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Awesome way to present the data, very useful.
I think we need a shorter turn-around for adding new cards than waiting a full year. How about four times a year on the equinox and solstice dates?
With every new set you simply ask us our suggestions for entry in the lists.
And we may only suggest entries if we suggest removals as well.
Or... Make separate rounds.
A vote for ten new entries each set and and separate (half) yearly vote to drop cards.
Guideline for the vote must be that your top cards must belong with the best.
So don't vote for color fixing lands unless they're comparable or better than what's already in there.
(Though bad cards will get voted out anyway in the cleanup rounds.)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I'd go with a four-times-a-year thing, but the the supplemental stuff like Commander 2015 throws it out. Might have to be five a year.
So how long's it been since BfZ release? Eight weeks or something? Seems like that might be our vote date (eight weeks post-release). All dependent on my memory, of course.
From there, my next problem is the threshold I use for cards from the individual set votes to make it into this master list. I suspect the answer might be that if a card receives a vote from every single participant it's a fair indication that it belongs on here, but I'll play that one as it comes. Only other issue I will have are the slow-burner cards that no-one figures out are actually awesome in Multiplayer until months after a set release. I'm sure those cards exist, but I can't think of too many recent examples.
So I guess I should get on and create a Best of BfZ Vote Thread, if everyone's happy to do so...
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
RUG RUG Delver
RW Boros
G Mono-Green Stompy
RUG RUG Delver
RW Boros
G Mono-Green Stompy
Stating facts doesn't help move the conversation along. Give us a deck list or a use case to justify your statements and then we can have a conversation!
Or look up the one on ZC that's already there.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
And yes, I know that nuance. Still, you can kill all your opponent's simultaneously, rather than one at a time.
RUG RUG Delver
RW Boros
G Mono-Green Stompy
Again, this statement is misleading as you don't quantify the environment. It is possible to clear the table 'simultaneously' with BA as well. Each ZC trigger elicits a potential response in the same manner as each BA trigger. 'Simultaneous' is relative based on who may or mat not have a response.
The bottom line is both of these cards are a huge threat in the right shell in a multiplayer environment. Arguing which one is better is a waste of time because we have already proven in multiple threads the merit of both and how each can be better than the other in a given situation.
If you want my opinion, it is this: ZC is easier to build around if your sole purpose is to combo off and defeat all opponents regardless of what your opponents are playing. For example, if your opponents are playing decks that have minimal creatures (i.e. more mid-range or control oriented), then ZC is clearly better than BA purely in terms of the math. In fact, almost any way you put it, ZC is always going to be better than BA UNLESS your opponents are swarming the board early on (turns 1 through 6). This is simply due to the fact that with ZC, all damage from your creatures are multiplied by the number of opponents present, whereas with BA, damage has no multiplication factor. To clarify, here's an example. Say you have 2 opponents that each have 20 life. That means you will need 40 points of life loss to win the game. In one instance, you have 1 ZC, and in the other, you have 1 BA. With the ZC instance, you* need 20 triggers to win. In the other instance, the board* needs to have 40 triggers AND you need a board wipe (likely another turn to play it) to complete the move. If you're relying on your opponents to provide you the bulk of the creatures, your deck probably isn't that consistent. A further point is that it's easier to have more triggers through sacrificing your own creatures. For example, being able to sacrifice creatures that have multiple lives (such as Blisterpod, etc.) is more efficient that destroying one of your opponent's since you are limited to only one trigger per creature.
Is this better?
RUG RUG Delver
RW Boros
G Mono-Green Stompy
BA acts as a rattlesnake by dissuading people from casting mass removal in the first place. When all of the damage can be aimed at the person casting wrath of god, potentially taking them out of the game, your board may stick around a little bit longer.
Overall, the cards are so similar in function and power level I would effectively call them functional reprints. Ultimately, if you want one you are likely to want both of them in your deck anyway (if you can find room).
You can see the full results in the OP over there.
Looking at the results objectively, I see a big drop-off between #6 and #7 on that list. In other words, I consider the top six cards from the vote worthy of potential inclusion in our Best-Of list (making the cut-off value for future votes 4.0+).
So this would be Blade of Selves, Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Grasp of Fate, Eldrazi Displacer, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Zulaport Cutthroat.
Does everyone consider those six as worthy?
Does 4.0+ seem like a logical cutoff point for the BFZ/OGW/C15 vote? (The #7 card is Crush of Tentacles at 2.8)
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Again, a value of 4.0+ seems like a logical cutoff point. For these three sets, this sticks three cards on our list - Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Expropriate and Selvala's Stampede.
I've added these and the six from BFZ / OGW / C15 to our list in the OP and updated the pricings in there.
For those who like to keep track of such things, here are the movements between the pricing tiers since I last updated:
Expensive -> I'll Never Own One (i.e. now $30+)
Time Spiral, Yawgmoth's Will, Wheel of Fortune, Doubling Season, Ensnaring Bridge, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Metalworker.
Not too many surprises here - most of these cards were just under $30 last I checked (the only rampant spike has been DubSeason, thanks to Atraxa's printing).
I'll Never Own One -> Expensive (i.e. now under $30)
Vampiric Tutor, Natural Order, Dack Fayden, Oblivion Stone.
This is where we thank Eternal Masters - three of these cards are only here because of it.
Budget -> Expensive (i.e. now $5+)
Luminarch Ascension, Phyrexian Metamorph, Rhystic Study, Cyclonic Rift, Grave Titan, Bloodchief Ascension, Insurrection, Birthing Pod, Aura Shards, Sterling Grove.
Not too many surprises here... a few cards that could do with a reprint.
Expensive -> Budget (i.e. now under $5)
Phyrexian Arena, Dragonmaster Outcast, Scavenging Ooze, Burgeoning, Green Sun's Zenith, Memnarch, Pernicious Deed, Deathrite Shaman.
Some wonderful, wonderful cards in this list, some of which aren't going to stay here for long. Get them now while you still can!
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I wish WotC would just reprint anything repeatedly that goes over $5.
FWIW, Grey Merchant could easily fit into the "if you don't like friends" category, given that sucker with bounce just ends games quickly.
At least Exsanguinate isn't going to hit hard until people have big mana available.
Concise and well put together
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Here's what has moved between the price categories since last update.
I'll Never Own One -> Expensive But Worth It (i.e. now < $30)
I'll Never Own One -> Won't Make Friends (i.e. now < $30, but hateful)
Now under $20 a copy thanks to its FtV: Lore reprint.
Expensive But Worth It -> I'll Never Own One (i.e. now > $30)
Expensive But Worth It -> Budget Multiplayer Bombs (i.e. now < $5)
Budget Multiplayer Bombs -> Expensive But Worth It (i.e. now > $5)
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor