So I too have been playing around with this deck, and I keep thinking that I should try and shove a Hellkite Tyrant in the deck. But I am not sure what I would take out and if I am really sure about the idea. I am only thinking about a one of.
Not even taking his odd win condition into account it would be fun to mark out certain creatures and then gain control of them.
EDIT: I've started a thread to discuss guttersnipe in the main boards, so any feedback can be directed there.
I'm looking for an opinion on guttersnipe in a mono-red burn based aggro deck.
I noticed some AWESOME synergy between him and War Elemental.
Right now I'm playing him with Talrand Sky summoner in a standard izzet burn deck, and he works WONDERS.
Do you think he would work well in something like the aggro-burn deck CZ gave an example for.
You can be nice and political with the Survivors, and then burn them off the face of the earth with Pyrohemia and such.
I've only ever played it in Repercussion style decks but that was even before Blasphemous Act was printed. I don't hate the card by any means but in general I'd rather play something like Veteran Brawlers. It still has a big body and I don't really have to worry about being overrun by tokens. Most of my Red decks win using things like Insurrection so I generally like to play with defensive creatures even if they're not going to be fantastic lategame draws. Things like Mob Rule and Molten Primordial, alongside combos such as Vicious Shadows/Repercussion + Blasphemous Act, has made it very easy to kill a lot of players so I'm relatively happy to play with big generic durdles that threaten good blocks.
I've basically re-written the entire guide. Would appreciate any feedback that anyone has, especially when it comes to "what I could do better" or "what you'd like to see added."
Would appreciate any feedback that anyone has, especially when it comes to "what I could do better" or "what you'd like to see added."
Everything looks much cleaner and the flow is better.
A couple of comments:
Section titles from Functional Lists and Cards That Everyone Should Have should be identical
I know you don't like to play Planeswalker cards, but perhaps listing top 1-2 in that color would be beneficial to the players, or maybe the ones to avoid at all cost
Would appreciate any feedback that anyone has, especially when it comes to "what I could do better" or "what you'd like to see added."
Everything looks much cleaner and the flow is better.
A couple of comments:
Section titles from Functional Lists and Cards That Everyone Should Have should be identical
I know you don't like to play Planeswalker cards, but perhaps listing top 1-2 in that color would be beneficial to the players, or maybe the ones to avoid at all cost
For the first one are you saying that it should be all-or-nothing when it comes to spoiler tags? I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
Good point about Planeswalkers. I should probably include something that covers them.
Mass Removal
Red is a removal color at its core and most multiplayer decklists are going to want to field global answers to creatures. The 3 spells that I personally reach for more than anything else are Earthquake, Anger of the Gods and Blasphemous Act since they provide you with the best mix of speed, power and utility. Earthquake is simply one of the best multiplayer cards in the game as it linearly scales to combat any number of players at any stage of the game. From 2-20 mana, on turn 2-20 and against 2-20 opponents it will always provide you with an amazing return on your investment. Anger of the Gods is the best "3 on 3" (3 damage to all creatures on turn 3) spell in my opinion as the exile trigger is absolutely stellar to have on a card this powerful and cheap. Red isn't known for having especially relevant 1-3 drop creatures in general and so you're significantly better off ignoring early drops (as much as possible) and simply clearing the board early on. Otherwise Blasphemous Act is a Day of Judgment variant that will routinely cost a single Red mana. It pairs insanely well with cards like Boros Reckoner and Stuffy Doll but even if you throw all synergies aside it's still a back-breakingly powerful Wrath of God effect in any MP setting.
Interaction
Mass creature removal, while powerful, won't solve every problem that you'll experience in a MP setting and this is where more specialized interaction comes into play. First of all there's Chaos Warp which is the only generic answer-all in the color. From Gaea's Cradle to Humility to Blightsteel Colossus it can neuter any targetable permanent for 3 mana at instant-speed. Before you complain about the price and drawback I need to stress that this is literally your only option so you can either take it or leave it because it's that or nothing. Moving on to spot removal my spells of choice are Lightning Bolt, Sudden Demise and Mizzium Mortars. That being said I personally think that Mizzium Mortars is head-and-shoulders above Bolt in terms of power-level and only recommend fielding the latter in extreme scenarios in which you'll literally lose the game unless you have access to a 1 mana, instant-speed answer to a creature. With respect to Artifact destruction my main go-tos are Vandalblast and Fiery Confluence. Before anyone jumps down my throat about Shatterstorm I want to stress that having the option to cast a 4 mana Slagstorm or a 6 damage global nuke (or some combination of all 3) is a significant advantage that a generic Shatter effect won't offer you. I rarely need to remove more than 3 Artifacts with my mass removal spells anyways and when people aren't fielding/drawing any you'll appreciate having such a flexible form of removal. Lastly there's "Fork" effects such as Reverberate and Dualcaster Mage that abuse the increased player count to piggy-back on their best spells. From removal to card draw to tutors there's no shortage of amazing effects to copy and these are the cheapest + most flexible options at your disposal.
Card Draw
The best Red card draw spell by a country mile is Outpost Siege and most decks are going to want at least 2 of them. Any list can run them out as a generic Phyrexian Arena variant and even though you'll whiff every now and then the card is fantastic in long, grindy games. Furthermore, Faithless Looting and Tormenting Voice are some of the most powerful looting spells in the entire game and can be played in countless archetypes that care about filling their graveyards early on. From Goblin Welder to Past in Flames to Demigod of Revenge there's any number of reasons to bin various nonsense and these are the cheapest and most reliable ways to go about it. Both are must-have staples that you'd be silly to overlook. Moving on there's Humble Defector which is criminally underplayed despite the fact that it pairs so well with mass removal. In any deck with 8-12 mass removal spells this is a generic 2 drop that you can run out as a blocker early on and eventually you can tap it when you're ready to jam your Anger of the Gods (or whatever) to get your Divination effect. 2 mana to threaten blocks and draw 2 cards is a sweet deal so as long as your deck has a critical mass of board clears (or even generic answers such as Inferno Titan) then he carries very little risk. Lastly there's Prophetic Flamespeaker which is a card similar to Outpost Siege that plays well in decks with a lot of removal and/or Equipment. While it's best not to think of it as an engine allows you to draw 3 cards per turn as long as you're able to burn blockers (if any) with cards like Mizzium Mortars then you should still be able to make all of your land drops while casting 1-2 spells per turn. It's certainly one of the least consistent options that you have at your disposal but it only takes a single "open" opponent to trigger the free draws and since multiplayer is a format of high-highs and low-lows it's frequently trivial to sneak hits in on someone who's having a bad game. Lastly there's Commune with Lava which is playable in most combo, ramp and/or Mana Geyser decks as a generic value engine. It's especially useful when you're looking for key cards/combos/synergies and can safely ignore most of what you hit but netting 2 lands and a couple of spells is always relevant so it does have generic applications as well.
Utility and Hosers
Removal, interaction and card draw are all powerful but it'll usually takes more than that to succeed in multiplayer matches. Sometimes you need access to silver-bullets that are extremely impactful even though you'll rarely run more than 1 or 2 copies in your shells. This section is dedicated for those "solid singletons" that figure to put in a ton of work even if you don't have a good bead on what the other players might be fielding. For starters I'll play Flameshadow Conjuring in basically any creature-based shell as most competitive creatures have powerful ETB and/or "when ~ attack" triggers that are worth significantly more than a single Red mana. Next we have Chaosphere which is a generic answer to fliers that just so happens to cause a bit of disruption as well. I typically won't run this effect "in the dark" but in metas swarming (or is it flocking?) with fliers then it's reasonable to include a copy of this card in your lists. Moving on I'm the biggest Ruination fan of all time and I will happily slot the first into any deck that can generate Red mana at some point. Not only will answer trouble nonbasics such as Cabal Coffers and Gaea's Cradle but it will frequently kill players outright by neutering their entire manabase. Moreover there's Burning Wish which is the single most powerful tutor in the entire color in my opinion. As much as I try to keep this guide budget-minded Burning Wish is far too ludicrously overpowered for me to overlook as it literally represents every Sorcery in your collection. Furthermore Red has access to the (arguably) most powerful ritual in the game in Mana Geyser which, even in the context of a 4 player game can still reliably ramp you to ~9-10 mana on turn ~5. From Comet Storm to Wildfire + Rite of the Raging Storm to Insurrection to Magmatic Force to Obliterate to Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger there's no shortage of busted things to do with it and I encourage you to let your imagination run wild. Otherwise 2 effects cards to strongly consider are damagedoublers and combat doublers as they enable your spells to scale as the game progresses in order to deal with the increased number of players. While I highlighted my favorites there's any number of reasonable alternatives and as long as you access to some version of the effect then that should suffice.
Finishers
Bluntly put "good" isn't "good enough" to win multiplayer games and you're going to legitimate bombs to secure the W. My personal collection of favorites includes cards such as Comet Storm, Repercussion, Mob Rule, Warstorm Surge, Vicious Shadows and Insurrection. I'm not going to discuss each one in great detail as I've covered them all numerous times throughout the guide already so think of this as a generic cheat-sheet for "cards that mindlessly win games."
I'm saying the categories aren't 1:1. Removal vs. Mass Removal, Card Draw vs. Card Advantage, Interaction vs. ???, Utility and Hosers vs. Hosers (??? for Utility), and Finishers vs. Finishers. Also, shouldn't Finishers be at the bottom of both lists? I know copy/cut/pasting those large blocks of text is a pain, but if the terms are the same and the order is the same (whether or not you address each category in each subsequent section), it makes it easier to cross-reference and retain the information.
Mm the idea isn't that there's supposed to be a 1:1 correlation. I'm only trying to highlight budget-minded cards that 90% of players could blindly add to 80% of their decks.
I purposely displaced finishers higher up the chain in the lists section because I want the most relevant information nearest to the top.
Quick question: What is 'AOE' stand for? You mention it twice, 'AOE nukes' and 'AOE burn' under 'Spells' but no explanation of what this three letter acronym 'TLA' stands for.
I was looking for Dormant Volcano!!! just yesterday but didn't think such a card existed. I've only really used the Ravnica ones before. Wow--thank you. So, compared with Myriad Landscape, which would you suggest in most applications?
Are there any trade-offs you've encountered when playing them that might lead you to recommend (or recommend avoiding) them for any specific archetypes? Deck I'm thinking of, specifically, is here. I mean--it looks like do a passable job at ramping but the thing is, I just don't really play that many ramp decks.
Isn't Feldon recursion enough for the Wheel magus?
You generally don't want your opponents to be drawing cards for no reason. It's certainly "a" reason to field the the Magus but not enough to justify its inclusion.
I was looking for Dormant Volcano!!! just yesterday but didn't think such a card existed. I've only really used the Ravnica ones before. Wow--thank you. So, compared with Myriad Landscape, which would you suggest in most applications?
Are there any trade-offs you've encountered when playing them that might lead you to recommend (or recommend avoiding) them for any specific archetypes? Deck I'm thinking of, specifically, is here. I mean--it looks like do a passable job at ramping but the thing is, I just don't really play that many ramp decks.
Plenty. Koth doesn't like to see Karoos. Demigod of Revenge doesn't like to see Karoos. Very few decks want more than 4 Bouncelands total since they're extremely weak in multiples, don't enable you to curve out and are awkward in the early stages of the game since you have to play a card before you cast them to avoid discarding.
In a three color deck I tend to play six bounce lands.
Almost never regret it. (Two of each two color combo.)
Biggest problem with Bouncelands in MP is that you have to actually cast a spell before you can play one or you're forced to discard at EOT. This means that can't run one out on turn 2 on the play unless you have a 1 drop which most MP decks won't. The math agrees with you that a 24 land deck with 6 Bouncelands will still consistently draw 2 "real lands" for turn 2 but you have to cast spells to make use of them and they're very weak in multiples early on. After all, if you fall too far behind on board you can be looking at 6-8 damage per circuit as opposed to 2-4. I'm not saying that it's wrong to run 6 or anything, it's just that it's important to understand when and where the cards should be used. Personally I feel like the first 4 are a gimme and from there it boils down to the curve of the deck and how consistently you're casting spells.
I know you don't like to play Planeswalker cards, but perhaps listing top 1-2 in that color would be beneficial to the players, or maybe the ones to avoid at all cost
I thought about this some more.
For the record I don't dislike anything inherently. I like cards that win games and I dislike ones that lose them. The reason why I generally hate on Walkers is because it's generally difficult to stick them on stable boards. I also don't really want these guides to be about "what not to play" and I already make plenty of mention to Daretti, Scrap Savant where I feel that he's applicable. Even Koth shows up if you dig deep enough.
That isn't to say that I'm never going to discuss 'Walkers, I'm just trying to think of the best way to go about it. Maybe it's as simple as giving them their own section. Not sure.
Do you intend to cover only FFA multiplayer? 99% of my multiplayer games are either Two-Headed Giant or "fixed attack direction" games. Planeswalkers are excellent there.
EDH is the most publicized multiplayer format by far and is neither team-based nor attack restricted. You're not doing yourself any favors by making wildly hyperbolic statements.
Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise I don't have any strong inclination to believe that the vast majority of players employ "fixed attack" restrictions. That was a generic suggestion that Wizards lazily added to the comp rules decades ago and that's never been pushed in any serious way. I've never seen a single multiplayer Cube that's employed it, it's not used in EDH, people virtually never mention that they use it on the multiplayer forums and I've personally never seen or heard of anyone using it. No MP format has ever used it as a default rule and you don't see people pushing for its use in formats like EDH/Cube nor it is a key discussion topic in the multiplayer forums. Obviously some people employ it and I'm not suggesting otherwise but I'm currently working under the assumption that the majority of multiplayer games don't.
2HG is a glorified duel format. My guide is applicable to most Cube/EDH/Chaos/Planeshift/Archenemy/etc. type formats but it's extremely difficult to cover everything equally. I agree that 'Walkers are better in 2HG than they are in Chaos games but at the same time I think that they're better in duels than they are in 2HG. Power is relative and I rarely encounter scenarios where 'Walkers (even the "good ones") actually gain it in MP formats. That isn't the same thing as being "terrible" or whatever but I don't agree that they're excellent. I think that the good ones are still pretty good and that the bad ones are still just as bad. Ajani Goldmane is still a steaming pile of trash whereas Liliana of the Veil is still very good. If I were to cover every card that's good in 2HG it would basically include "every good duel card" because realistically that's what 2HG is. Yes, cards like Fall of the Titans are clearly insane in the format but so are things like Bolt, StP, Counterspell, on and on and on.
Dormant Volcano is still a Bounceland and since it's obscure I felt like referencing it. Formats such as Canadian/German Highlander, EDH, Cube, etc. are all decent places to field these kinds of cards. If you're playing 60-card Constructed and want to jam Boros Garrison instead that's fine too. The existence of a superior alternative doesn't inherently neutralize a card's value. Maybe your deck needs colorless sources for Eldrazi or maybe you just like the picture more.
While we're on the subject I want to address why "2HG" is my least favorite format of all time. I guarantee that I've played way more 2HG than most but at the same time I don't think that most people even understand what 2HG actually is. 2HG is a team format that employs "unified deck construction rules." This means that you A) know who your Ally is going to be B) build your deck with them in mind and C) that neither of you can run more than 4 total copies of nonbasic lands. Not "by chance," by design. It also means that you can have one person build a deck with nothing but Swords to Plowshares, Silences, Force of Wills, Spell Pierces, Swan Songs, Dazes, Flusterstorms, Mindbreak Traps, etc. while the other builds a turn 1-4 combo deck like Belcher or Waste Not or "Oops All Spells." That's what 2HG actually is. It's a format where you work as a team to build decks that meet specific criteria and you're encouraged to build with your ally in mind. It adds extremely complex layers of depth to your strategic options and allows you to employ tactics that wouldn't be remotely competitive in any other circumstance. That being said if you just hack and slash rules that aren't convenient to you then you're not playing 2HG.
What people call 2HG is a format where they build a deck, alone, and partner with a random person who also built a deck on their own. No unified deck construction, no nod to team synergy, nothing. I'm sure that a lot of those decks randomly meet 2HG requirements but that's not the same thing as actively adhering to the rules of unified deck construction. It annoys me when people like you claim that 2HG is an extremely popular format when the reality is that what you're playing isn't 2HG. As far I can tell no one has coined an term for it but I can assure that it's something else. Unknown ally != unified deck construction != 2HG. I can't show up to a Standard event and say that I'm going to play with combat damage on the stack just because "it's how we play at home." You may still claim that you're playing Standard for whatever reason but that's not how the rest of the world sees it.
To the best my recollection I've seen about 10 threads in roughly as many years regarding actual 2HG where the person came in and said "help us build decks that will work well together." The other 95% are people who are building a deck alone and that will pair with another person doing the same thing. Play whatever homebrew format that you want, that's totally fine, but you can't claim to be playing an existing format if you're not following the rules. Combat damage on the stack? Mana burn still exists? Still use Partial Paris in EDH? Cool! You're allowed to do whatever you want with your time. Just don't pretend that what you're playing isn't a homebrew/variant format. If people actually played a lot of 2HG (like you're suggesting) then I would certainly put more emphasis on it but what people play is an entirely different team-based format.
The rules don't specify that the decks have to be hypercompetitive. If we want to team up thallids and octopi, we can, and it's still 2HG.
I never said that they did. I said that you get to build your decks with your teammate(s) in mind and pursue unique avenues to victory as a result. That, to me, has always been the essence of 2HG.
I disagree on a fundamental level. If you're purposely and willingly choosing to ignore the rules then you're not playing the game properly. Period. We're not talking about a deck reg error or an oversight. We're talking about a blatant disregard for the rules.
So maybe the two heads have 2 Sol Rings between the two of them? In a tournament that means someone has to replace theirs with a basic land (and possibly gets a warning, if there even exists such a thing as Competitive REL 2HG), but in a casual setting that just makes it 2HG with a deck problem that isn't a problem.
It's against the rules but there isn't a problem? 2HG is an official format with an official set of rules. Why wouldn't it be a problem?
When I play 2HG, we make sure we don't have any "cheaty" overlap like 8 Cloudposts and we handwave the rest because who cares.
You still use mana burn because "who cares?" You put combat damage on the stack because "who cares?" You don't follow the rules that inconvenience you because "who cares?"
Instead of "ignoring UDC in 2HG" replace that with "combat damage still using the stack." Imagine going to a dedicated Legacy forum and explaining to people how your Death and Taxes deck does X, Y and X with Mother of Runes and Flickerwisp and such because you still use damage on the stack. Are people supposed to take you seriously? When you blatantly ignore the rules of the format? 2HG is an official format with an official set of rules. There's no "casual 2HG," there's no "competitive 2HG," it's simply 2HG. If want to play a variation of it that's fine too but you have to see where I'm coming from with this. You've fundamentally changed the format by wildly shifting the aspect of team dynamics. You cant' brush that off as "no big deal" and expect people who actually play 2HG to nod in agreement. The rules give us a reference point that everyone, everywhere can use. When I discuss decks/strategies for "my 2HG" it will still be applicable for you in yours because we're all playing by the same rules. When people decide to just pick and choose the ones that best suit their needs suddenly that reference point is gone and now you're left with nothing but a throng of personal opinions and results that're only pertinent to the sphere in which they exist.
Now, that isn't to say that you're inherently wrong. It's entirely possible that maybe I should put more emphasis in the pseudo 2HG format that many people play. My point is that that format is wildly different from actual 2HG when it comes to strategies/deck construction/etc. This is what I mean when I say there's a lot of multiplayer formats out there (official or not) and that it's difficult to cover them all.
EDIT: On an unrelated note I took you suggestion about keeping the cards to "one liners" tops. No more paragraphs for individual cards. I agree that most of the explanations are almost pedantic and it's possible that maybe I should just explain the cards that actually require it.
I disagree on a fundamental level. If you're purposely and willing choosing to ignore the rules then you're not playing the game properly. Period. We're not talking about a deck reg error or an oversight. We're talking about a blatant disregard for the rules.
This is really important. If you aren't using the rules, you aren't playing the format. PERIOD.
This no different than any other kind of disregard for the rules. "Officer, I was only going 3 mph over the speed limit, it's not like I was doing 10+ like those other people."
Not even taking his odd win condition into account it would be fun to mark out certain creatures and then gain control of them.
16x Mountain
4x Phyrexia's Core
4x Ghitu Encampment
1x Shivan Gorge
Creatures (17)
4x Viashino Heretic
3x Taurean Mauler
3x Obsidian Fireheart
3x Chandler
4x Hoard-Smelter Dragon
4x Liquimetal Coating
3x Shattering Pulse
2x Mycosynth Wellspring
1x Helvault
4x Thran Forge
2x Staff of Nin
2x Spine of Ish Sah
I'm looking for an opinion on guttersnipe in a mono-red burn based aggro deck.
I noticed some AWESOME synergy between him and War Elemental.
Right now I'm playing him with Talrand Sky summoner in a standard izzet burn deck, and he works WONDERS.
Do you think he would work well in something like the aggro-burn deck CZ gave an example for.
1 Koth of the Hammer
Creatures: 16
1 Magmatic Force
2 Hostility
2 Kazuul, Tyrant of Cliffs
1 Magma Phoenix *I'm questioning this choice*
2 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
3 War elemental
3 Guttersnipe
2 Chandra's Spitfire
4 Browbeat
4 Sizzle
3 Flame Rift
1 Mizzium Mortars
Artifacts: 2
2 Sun Droplet
24 Mountain
BGGolgari ScavengeGB
RUIzzet DelverUR
Modern
RUB Mishra's SpellbombsBUR
EDH:
UWBDakkon BlackbladeBWU
RUB ThraximundarBUR
I've only ever played it in Repercussion style decks but that was even before Blasphemous Act was printed. I don't hate the card by any means but in general I'd rather play something like Veteran Brawlers. It still has a big body and I don't really have to worry about being overrun by tokens. Most of my Red decks win using things like Insurrection so I generally like to play with defensive creatures even if they're not going to be fantastic lategame draws. Things like Mob Rule and Molten Primordial, alongside combos such as Vicious Shadows/Repercussion + Blasphemous Act, has made it very easy to kill a lot of players so I'm relatively happy to play with big generic durdles that threaten good blocks.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Tax-Rack with Blade of Selves
Tax-Rack with Vicious Shadows
Mesmeric Orb + Lord of Extinction
G/W/K Sun Titan Reanimator
U/G LashWrithe
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
A couple of comments:
For the first one are you saying that it should be all-or-nothing when it comes to spoiler tags? I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
Good point about Planeswalkers. I should probably include something that covers them.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I purposely displaced finishers higher up the chain in the lists section because I want the most relevant information nearest to the top.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Review: I like the suggested catds a lot. I think you introduction could be quartered...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I was looking for Dormant Volcano!!! just yesterday but didn't think such a card existed. I've only really used the Ravnica ones before. Wow--thank you. So, compared with Myriad Landscape, which would you suggest in most applications?
Are there any trade-offs you've encountered when playing them that might lead you to recommend (or recommend avoiding) them for any specific archetypes? Deck I'm thinking of, specifically, is here. I mean--it looks like do a passable job at ramping but the thing is, I just don't really play that many ramp decks.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
You generally don't want your opponents to be drawing cards for no reason. It's certainly "a" reason to field the the Magus but not enough to justify its inclusion.
Noted.
Area of effect. I'll edit those out.
Ravnica Bouncelands for 2+ color decks > Myriad Landscape for 1-2 color decks > Karoos. Note that Myriad Landscape is significantly better when your deck wants actual basic lands for any reason. Maybe you have special duals, maybe you have cards like Koth of the Hammer or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, etc.
Plenty. Koth doesn't like to see Karoos. Demigod of Revenge doesn't like to see Karoos. Very few decks want more than 4 Bouncelands total since they're extremely weak in multiples, don't enable you to curve out and are awkward in the early stages of the game since you have to play a card before you cast them to avoid discarding.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Almost never regret it. (Two of each two color combo.)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Biggest problem with Bouncelands in MP is that you have to actually cast a spell before you can play one or you're forced to discard at EOT. This means that can't run one out on turn 2 on the play unless you have a 1 drop which most MP decks won't. The math agrees with you that a 24 land deck with 6 Bouncelands will still consistently draw 2 "real lands" for turn 2 but you have to cast spells to make use of them and they're very weak in multiples early on. After all, if you fall too far behind on board you can be looking at 6-8 damage per circuit as opposed to 2-4. I'm not saying that it's wrong to run 6 or anything, it's just that it's important to understand when and where the cards should be used. Personally I feel like the first 4 are a gimme and from there it boils down to the curve of the deck and how consistently you're casting spells.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
He was specifically asking about Dormant Volcano.
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Those are the next ones up yes.
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I thought about this some more.
For the record I don't dislike anything inherently. I like cards that win games and I dislike ones that lose them. The reason why I generally hate on Walkers is because it's generally difficult to stick them on stable boards. I also don't really want these guides to be about "what not to play" and I already make plenty of mention to Daretti, Scrap Savant where I feel that he's applicable. Even Koth shows up if you dig deep enough.
That isn't to say that I'm never going to discuss 'Walkers, I'm just trying to think of the best way to go about it. Maybe it's as simple as giving them their own section. Not sure.
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EDH is the most publicized multiplayer format by far and is neither team-based nor attack restricted. You're not doing yourself any favors by making wildly hyperbolic statements.
Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise I don't have any strong inclination to believe that the vast majority of players employ "fixed attack" restrictions. That was a generic suggestion that Wizards lazily added to the comp rules decades ago and that's never been pushed in any serious way. I've never seen a single multiplayer Cube that's employed it, it's not used in EDH, people virtually never mention that they use it on the multiplayer forums and I've personally never seen or heard of anyone using it. No MP format has ever used it as a default rule and you don't see people pushing for its use in formats like EDH/Cube nor it is a key discussion topic in the multiplayer forums. Obviously some people employ it and I'm not suggesting otherwise but I'm currently working under the assumption that the majority of multiplayer games don't.
2HG is a glorified duel format. My guide is applicable to most Cube/EDH/Chaos/Planeshift/Archenemy/etc. type formats but it's extremely difficult to cover everything equally. I agree that 'Walkers are better in 2HG than they are in Chaos games but at the same time I think that they're better in duels than they are in 2HG. Power is relative and I rarely encounter scenarios where 'Walkers (even the "good ones") actually gain it in MP formats. That isn't the same thing as being "terrible" or whatever but I don't agree that they're excellent. I think that the good ones are still pretty good and that the bad ones are still just as bad. Ajani Goldmane is still a steaming pile of trash whereas Liliana of the Veil is still very good. If I were to cover every card that's good in 2HG it would basically include "every good duel card" because realistically that's what 2HG is. Yes, cards like Fall of the Titans are clearly insane in the format but so are things like Bolt, StP, Counterspell, on and on and on.
Dormant Volcano is still a Bounceland and since it's obscure I felt like referencing it. Formats such as Canadian/German Highlander, EDH, Cube, etc. are all decent places to field these kinds of cards. If you're playing 60-card Constructed and want to jam Boros Garrison instead that's fine too. The existence of a superior alternative doesn't inherently neutralize a card's value. Maybe your deck needs colorless sources for Eldrazi or maybe you just like the picture more.
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While we're on the subject I want to address why "2HG" is my least favorite format of all time. I guarantee that I've played way more 2HG than most but at the same time I don't think that most people even understand what 2HG actually is. 2HG is a team format that employs "unified deck construction rules." This means that you A) know who your Ally is going to be B) build your deck with them in mind and C) that neither of you can run more than 4 total copies of nonbasic lands. Not "by chance," by design. It also means that you can have one person build a deck with nothing but Swords to Plowshares, Silences, Force of Wills, Spell Pierces, Swan Songs, Dazes, Flusterstorms, Mindbreak Traps, etc. while the other builds a turn 1-4 combo deck like Belcher or Waste Not or "Oops All Spells." That's what 2HG actually is. It's a format where you work as a team to build decks that meet specific criteria and you're encouraged to build with your ally in mind. It adds extremely complex layers of depth to your strategic options and allows you to employ tactics that wouldn't be remotely competitive in any other circumstance. That being said if you just hack and slash rules that aren't convenient to you then you're not playing 2HG.
What people call 2HG is a format where they build a deck, alone, and partner with a random person who also built a deck on their own. No unified deck construction, no nod to team synergy, nothing. I'm sure that a lot of those decks randomly meet 2HG requirements but that's not the same thing as actively adhering to the rules of unified deck construction. It annoys me when people like you claim that 2HG is an extremely popular format when the reality is that what you're playing isn't 2HG. As far I can tell no one has coined an term for it but I can assure that it's something else. Unknown ally != unified deck construction != 2HG. I can't show up to a Standard event and say that I'm going to play with combat damage on the stack just because "it's how we play at home." You may still claim that you're playing Standard for whatever reason but that's not how the rest of the world sees it.
To the best my recollection I've seen about 10 threads in roughly as many years regarding actual 2HG where the person came in and said "help us build decks that will work well together." The other 95% are people who are building a deck alone and that will pair with another person doing the same thing. Play whatever homebrew format that you want, that's totally fine, but you can't claim to be playing an existing format if you're not following the rules. Combat damage on the stack? Mana burn still exists? Still use Partial Paris in EDH? Cool! You're allowed to do whatever you want with your time. Just don't pretend that what you're playing isn't a homebrew/variant format. If people actually played a lot of 2HG (like you're suggesting) then I would certainly put more emphasis on it but what people play is an entirely different team-based format.
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I never said that they did. I said that you get to build your decks with your teammate(s) in mind and pursue unique avenues to victory as a result. That, to me, has always been the essence of 2HG.
I disagree on a fundamental level. If you're purposely and willingly choosing to ignore the rules then you're not playing the game properly. Period. We're not talking about a deck reg error or an oversight. We're talking about a blatant disregard for the rules.
It's against the rules but there isn't a problem? 2HG is an official format with an official set of rules. Why wouldn't it be a problem?
You still use mana burn because "who cares?" You put combat damage on the stack because "who cares?" You don't follow the rules that inconvenience you because "who cares?"
Instead of "ignoring UDC in 2HG" replace that with "combat damage still using the stack." Imagine going to a dedicated Legacy forum and explaining to people how your Death and Taxes deck does X, Y and X with Mother of Runes and Flickerwisp and such because you still use damage on the stack. Are people supposed to take you seriously? When you blatantly ignore the rules of the format? 2HG is an official format with an official set of rules. There's no "casual 2HG," there's no "competitive 2HG," it's simply 2HG. If want to play a variation of it that's fine too but you have to see where I'm coming from with this. You've fundamentally changed the format by wildly shifting the aspect of team dynamics. You cant' brush that off as "no big deal" and expect people who actually play 2HG to nod in agreement. The rules give us a reference point that everyone, everywhere can use. When I discuss decks/strategies for "my 2HG" it will still be applicable for you in yours because we're all playing by the same rules. When people decide to just pick and choose the ones that best suit their needs suddenly that reference point is gone and now you're left with nothing but a throng of personal opinions and results that're only pertinent to the sphere in which they exist.
Now, that isn't to say that you're inherently wrong. It's entirely possible that maybe I should put more emphasis in the pseudo 2HG format that many people play. My point is that that format is wildly different from actual 2HG when it comes to strategies/deck construction/etc. This is what I mean when I say there's a lot of multiplayer formats out there (official or not) and that it's difficult to cover them all.
EDIT: On an unrelated note I took you suggestion about keeping the cards to "one liners" tops. No more paragraphs for individual cards. I agree that most of the explanations are almost pedantic and it's possible that maybe I should just explain the cards that actually require it.
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This no different than any other kind of disregard for the rules. "Officer, I was only going 3 mph over the speed limit, it's not like I was doing 10+ like those other people."