More Specters, evasive beater which can eat at his hand is no joke. I don't think Sol Ring works here as well as it should. Comsidering at best you'd be using mono black or with 1 Colorless for most spells.
And I'm not sure why the singleton of strip mine. I don't know if your playgroup uses the banlist but usually, I'd run set or none of those.
:: My Thoughts ::
The deck is pretty solid but, my brother's control magic deck is a problem. He has clones and everything you can think of to counter a discard deck. Are there any cards I could insert into my deck to counter this?
Your right about the creature kill for sure. If my brother uses his thief or control magic deck at least I can kill what he steals. Or I can wait play damnation and then put my creatures out. The updated deck makes it a 64 card deck. I'm worried about it being slow though besides the dark rituals is the only mana boost I have. It may be okay I'll have to do some play testing. Oh I like washout because it returns creatures to the owners hands for me to discard them. Damnation just kills them. Evacuation would be a better choice but it's a one higher casting cost.
Your right about the creature kill for sure. If my brother uses his thief or control magic deck at least I can kill what he steals. Or I can wait play damnation and then put my creatures out. The updated deck makes it a 64 card deck. I'm worried about it being slow though besides the dark rituals is the only mana boost I have. It may be okay I'll have to do some play testing. Oh I like washout because it returns creatures to the owners hands for me to discard them. Damnation just kills them. Evacuation would be a better choice but it's a one higher casting cost.
Okay now I'm worried about mana because everything is mostly 3 and above casting cost. It may be okay, what do you think of the updated list? I know I'm keeping howling mine because the other has high mana cost. Also Mind Twist is a great card but looks like I can't fit it in there. Yeah I don't have enough discard in there. I need at least between 12-18 discard cards. Also now I have too many cards.
This was my first deck in magic that has been changed a lot since then but the discard factor is still there. I love the deck but I still feel that is missing something and would like your help in making it better. I only have one Damnation because getting a second one is expensive hence the single Mutilate. The other Liliana's are there because I love her but it started out with just 2 Liliana Vess. I originally had 2 Sorin Markov but needed to make space for the other Lilianas. Any help and constructive criticism is encouraged and welcome:D. Thank you for your help in advance.
Doesn't multiple lilianas kill themselves? 4 lilianas is overkill -- you only want a 4 of a card that you can cast early (turn 1 or 2), cast often, and benefit multiple copies of.
Off hand I'd say put in some dark rituals to enable you to get an arena/spectre in play earlier.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Well yes they do but Liliana barely stays on the field for me to have a problem casting the other ones. The Dark Ritual idea is nice but I have no idea what to take out, any suggestions?
Mono Black Discard Deck I call 1843, in reference to the Disruption of 1843 (because it's a deck that focuses on disruption). I've been working on it for awhile, seems decent to me, especially considering it's pretty budget. A hand with two lands and a Dark Ritual is always going to be fantastic. I don't know what's better, turn one Hypnotic Specter, or turn one Duress followed by Hymn To Tourach, both can be devastating.
The Rack is your primary win condition, and you'll have little problem getting to it with the help of Phyrexian Arena. Nyxathid is an alternate win condition. Hypnotic Specter, Geth's Verdict, Ravenous Rats, and Smallpox all do minimal damage but it really does add up. I would really love some feedback because I certainly am no expert. BTW, this is kitchen table stuff, really casual play group.
Why would you ever cut Phyrexian Arena? Put it back at 4. You win games with it.
Smallpox with only 21 Swamps is not a good idea. I'd say run at least 22, or you're going to have trouble hitting land drops 3 and 4.
Also I think you have too many 1-shot discard effects. You should get rid of Cry of Contrition and use a multi-discard enabler like Hypnotic Specter or Nezumi Shortfang (which is also more Rack effects for you). Also get rid of Liliana's Specter if you put in Hypnotic.
The idea of running Abyssal Persecutor with only 4 sacrifice outlets is weak so I would not recommend running it here.
I have never really been a fan of Nyxathid, I think it would be better to focus on overall discarding, so removing them, upping The Rack to 3 and add 2 Raven's Crime. Then I would add another Victim of Night to complete the playset.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks I play:
Legacy:
Pox
Demon Stompy
Black Knights
Modern:
Tainted Shadow
MBC
8 Rack
Casual:
Suicide Black
Old-school Nightmare Effect
EDH:
Anowon, the Ruin Sage
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Makes sense, but since Hypnotic Specter/Nezumi Shortfang are vulnerable to all sorts of creature removal, wouldn't something like Ravenous Rats, since it provides a faster, guaranteed discard? With Vampire Nighthawk working as a removal mechanic as well, and something like Smother (or Innocent Blood if cards like Ravenous Rats were utilized) to take care of early drops, it seems you would want something more speedy for the beginning of the game.
I have never really been a fan of Nyxathid, I think it would be better to focus on overall discarding, so removing them, upping The Rack to 3 and add 2 Raven's Crime. Then I would add another Victim of Night to complete the playset.
The Rack feels a little too slow to depend on it though, since by then single creatures may not be my problem. And Cry of Contrition would pair nicely with Innocent Blood, making it cheaper than Raven's Crime.
"Faster, guaranteed discard" doesn't mean much if it's not either targeted discard (like Thoughtseize) or random discard (Hymn to Tourach). Discard where your opponent has a choice is not very powerful.
Also, the "it dies to removal" argument is not a very good one here. With discard you know what's in your opponent's hand, so you properly play around your opponent's strategy. That's what the targeted discard is for. Use Duress to get rid of removal so your creatures can be safe.
If you want speed use Dark Ritual, and try using the classic opening hand of Swamp, Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter. It gets scary fast.
Yeah I've since switched. At the time I was designing this deck I didn't know Geth's Verdict existed. Not only does it have the bonus damage; I picked up 4 for the price of one Diabolic Edict; considering some of the cards in the deck have to save cash where ever possible. (Also got 4 Hypnotic Specters for $2).
Still need 2 more cards for a 60 count; thinking about adding in 2 Lake of the Dead for late game finishes but not sure if they are needed. Could also add in a Demonic Tutor to search for the Obliterator/Necro if needed. Any thoughts?
More Specters, evasive beater which can eat at his hand is no joke. I don't think Sol Ring works here as well as it should. Comsidering at best you'd be using mono black or with 1 Colorless for most spells.
And I'm not sure why the singleton of strip mine. I don't know if your playgroup uses the banlist but usually, I'd run set or none of those.
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
Discard Blue and Black
4 Underworld Dreams
4 Wash out
4 Jace's Archivist
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Silent Specter
4 Royal Assassin
4 Syphon Mind
4 Dark Ritual
4 Psychosis Crawler
4 Oppression
4 Underground Sea
4 Drowned Catacomb
8 Swamp
4 Island
Side Cards
4 Megrim
4 Memory Jar
:: My Thoughts ::
The deck is pretty solid but, my brother's control magic deck is a problem. He has clones and everything you can think of to counter a discard deck. Are there any cards I could insert into my deck to counter this?
Let's see. First off. You're going for UB discard or mill/forced draw? What are you trying to do here?
Not to mention there are far better alternatives to use for some cards.
Replace Royal Assassin with Doomblade, Murder, Rend Flash, Go for the Throat etc.
You don't have counterspells here. Counterspell, Daze, Mana Leak, Dissipate and Runesnag
Ditch Silents for Hypnotic Specter. A lot more curve friendly.
If you're going to use Psychosis Crawler as a wincon. Font of Mythos is better than mine and you want more card draw. (Preordain, Ponder, Sign in blood, Phyrexian Arena etc.) And sticking it to two.
I'd ditch Wash Out for better forms of mass removal. Damnation, Evacuate, Black Sun's Zenith and Devastation Tide come to mind.
I also don't see The Rack, Nezumi Shortfang and a few other staples in a discarder deck.
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
Updated Deck
:: Deck Type ::
Discard Blue and Black
4 Underworld Dreams
4 Washout
4 Jace's Archivist
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Go for the throat
4 Syphon Mind
4 Dark Ritual
4 Psychosis Crawler
4 Oppression
4 Counterspell
4 Underground Sea
4 Drowned Catacomb
8 Swamp
4 Island
Side Cards
4 Megrim
4 Memory Jar
Dude, using Evac is counter intuitive to a Discard deck. You want the cards to be discarded, not back in the hand where he can play it again.
I would ditch Syphon Mind, it's pretty poor and too high casting. Especially for 1 vs 1.
If you want to load his hand with Evac and rofce him to discard. Try adding Painful Quandry
Wash out is too selective to be of any proper use. Especially if you want to load his hand.
Heck. If you wanted full blown discard, run mono black.
Heck, I feel like you're trying to do too much with two colors.
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
4 Underworld Dreams
4 Evacuation
4 Jace's Archivist
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Counterspell
4 Painful Quandary
4 Dark Ritual
4 The Rack
4 Oppression
4 Mind Twist
4 Underground Sea
4 Drowned Catacomb
8 Swamp
4 Island
+2 Damnation
-2 Dreams
-2 Oppression
+4 Doomblade or similar.
-2 Quandry
-4 Mine
+2 Phyrexian Arena or Bloodgift Demon
Try those adjustments.
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Strip Mine
20 Swamp
2 Liliana Vess
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin Markov
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Mind Twist
1 Mutilate
This was my first deck in magic that has been changed a lot since then but the discard factor is still there. I love the deck but I still feel that is missing something and would like your help in making it better. I only have one Damnation because getting a second one is expensive hence the single Mutilate. The other Liliana's are there because I love her but it started out with just 2 Liliana Vess. I originally had 2 Sorin Markov but needed to make space for the other Lilianas. Any help and constructive criticism is encouraged and welcome:D. Thank you for your help in advance.
Off hand I'd say put in some dark rituals to enable you to get an arena/spectre in play earlier.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
The Rack is your primary win condition, and you'll have little problem getting to it with the help of Phyrexian Arena. Nyxathid is an alternate win condition. Hypnotic Specter, Geth's Verdict, Ravenous Rats, and Smallpox all do minimal damage but it really does add up. I would really love some feedback because I certainly am no expert. BTW, this is kitchen table stuff, really casual play group.
1843
4x Smallpox
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Go for the Throat
3x Phyrexian Arena
2x Nyxathid
4x The Rack
1x Strip Mine
4x Dark Ritual
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
I was considering it, but I would just hate to lose my Hypnotic Specters. I think I am going to replace the rats with Black Cat though.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Again, only want to spend something like $50, so no Dark Confident, Thoughtsieze, etc.
Thanks a bunch!
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Liliana's Specter
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Duress
3 Cry of Contrition
2 Innocent Blood
2 Victim of Night
2 Exsanguinate
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 The Rack
[deck]Your Cards[/deck]
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Liliana's Specter
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Duress
3 Cry of Contrition
2 Innocent Blood
2 Victim of Night
2 Exsanguinate
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 The Rack
The deck is kind of inconsistent. You want more full playsets of some things.
For instance, I'm not sure that Phyrexian Arena needs 4, but Vampire Nighthawk is definitely worth having more.
Thanks to GR @ Yavin IV Studios for the signature!
Reduced Phyrexian Arena to 2, cut Exsanguinate and Innocent Blood, bumped all the discards up to full playsets and added two Nighthawks.
Thoughts? Ideas? Pancakes?
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Liliana's Specter
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Duress
4 Cry of Contrition
3 Victim of Night
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 The Rack
Why would you ever cut Phyrexian Arena? Put it back at 4. You win games with it.
Smallpox with only 21 Swamps is not a good idea. I'd say run at least 22, or you're going to have trouble hitting land drops 3 and 4.
Also I think you have too many 1-shot discard effects. You should get rid of Cry of Contrition and use a multi-discard enabler like Hypnotic Specter or Nezumi Shortfang (which is also more Rack effects for you). Also get rid of Liliana's Specter if you put in Hypnotic.
The idea of running Abyssal Persecutor with only 4 sacrifice outlets is weak so I would not recommend running it here.
Overall I would do this:
-2 Abyssal Persecutor
-2 Liliana's Specter
-4 Cry of Contrition
-4 Smallpox
+2 Nezumi Shortfang
+2 Phyrexian Arena
+4 Hypnotic Specter
+3 Removal of Your Choice
+1 Swamp
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
Decks I play:
-Friedrich Nietzsche
The Rack feels a little too slow to depend on it though, since by then single creatures may not be my problem. And Cry of Contrition would pair nicely with Innocent Blood, making it cheaper than Raven's Crime.
Also, the "it dies to removal" argument is not a very good one here. With discard you know what's in your opponent's hand, so you properly play around your opponent's strategy. That's what the targeted discard is for. Use Duress to get rid of removal so your creatures can be safe.
If you want speed use Dark Ritual, and try using the classic opening hand of Swamp, Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter. It gets scary fast.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
20x Swamp
4x Hypnotic Specter
2x Nezumi Shortfang
4x Dark Ritual
4x Victim of Night
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x The Rack
3x Phyrexian Arena
1x Necropotence
Any thoughts?
U FaerieNinjaStandstill U
B Swag Flu B
In Development
BG Nightmare Survival GB
B The Gate B
BRG Jund GRB
The Rack
Ravenous Rats
Black Cat
Nezumi Shortfang
Painful Quandary
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Yeah I've since switched. At the time I was designing this deck I didn't know Geth's Verdict existed. Not only does it have the bonus damage; I picked up 4 for the price of one Diabolic Edict; considering some of the cards in the deck have to save cash where ever possible. (Also got 4 Hypnotic Specters for $2).
This is the current build I am working on;
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Hypnotic Specter
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
Instants
4x Dark Ritual
4x Geth's Verdict
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
Enchantments
3x Phyrexian Arena
1x Necropotence
4x The Rack
Land
20x Swamp
Still need 2 more cards for a 60 count; thinking about adding in 2 Lake of the Dead for late game finishes but not sure if they are needed. Could also add in a Demonic Tutor to search for the Obliterator/Necro if needed. Any thoughts?
U FaerieNinjaStandstill U
B Swag Flu B
In Development
BG Nightmare Survival GB
B The Gate B
BRG Jund GRB