I am building a mono black discard deck to be used in mostly one on one matches, but will also occasionally see two-headed giant or emperor battles. The deck is mostly completed, but I have some holes hat need filling and a few too many cards to put in there. So basically ill just shut up and show you the cards already and hopefully you guys can help me out.
Note: my group plays by its own sort of format, basically vintage without restrictions, and a few other wierd things but thats mostly it. Oh, for budget reasons I dont really want to spend more than $5 ish per card, so things like thoughtseize are out.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Yeah I thought about all of those, but the decks im up against are rather fast, and pilling on all the mind twists slows it down too much.
and as much as I love sol ring, theres too much in the deck that costs specifically black mana, and the colorless mana from sol ring wouldn't help as much as I would like
demonic tutor is also a little pricey from my budget. I should have mentioned this earlier, all the above cards in the lost I already own, so thats why you will see things like only 1 demonic or only 1 yawgmoth's will. And dont quote me on this, but i thought demonic tutor was kinda pricey?
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Hmmmm..... never knew about spinning darkness before, that is a nice fit for both necropotence and getting rid of the fast aggro creatures that tend to be this deck's downfall. The only thing I see it hurting me for is making the yawgmoth's will slightly less powerful, but I think that will be so minor it shouldn't effect any games.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
So, I was skiming the legacy pox primer, and was onsidering turning my deck into a budget version of pox. My question is: Would it be worth including necropotence-ivory tower in the deck or is that a different deck entirely?
I am building a mono black discard deck to be used in mostly one on one matches, but will also occasionally see two-headed giant or emperor battles. The deck is mostly completed, but I have some holes hat need filling and a few too many cards to put in there. So basically ill just shut up and show you the cards already and hopefully you guys can help me out.
Note: my group plays by its own sort of format, basically vintage without restrictions, and a few other wierd things but thats mostly it. Oh, for budget reasons I dont really want to spend more than $5 ish per card, so things like thoughtseize are out.
You're overpacked on discard, and short on choices of removal, draw and wincons.
If you plan to win through The Rack, Shortfang is demanding.
17 lands is a no-go. That's for decks that want to hit 2 mana for the most of the beginning of a game, not 3+. -1 Smother, -1 Funeral Charm, +2 land. 19 is more appropriate over long-term for something with 11 CMC 3 permanents.
Funeral Charm seems like the weakest card of the bunch, to be honest. Mind Twist seems like it'd be a lot better of a choice (random discard >>> normal discard, chance for card advantage with more mana, etc.). I do understand that Funeral Charm is one of the extremely few cases of instant-speed discard in MtG- however, that just sounds like a win-more card when you could be using something to help you pull ahead while you're behind, rather than something to keep you ahead while you're already ahead. Actually, if you don't like Mind Twist, I do have another recommendation that I've playtested and loved myself...
Tombstalker. He's such a damn good creature in something like this that creates a bunch of extra cards in your graveyard by casting (28!) instants/sorceries. He's difficult to answer when your opponent has next to nothing in their hand, he's evasive in case the opponent does manage to get some chumps out to block Nyxathid, and he's a 4 turn clock unlike Hypnotic Specter and Vampire Nighthawk's 10 turn clock.
Tombstalker would expedite your games immensely, as if your opponent can't answer him, you win, and it requires less room in the deck than something like Vampire Hexmage and Dark Depths. I've been a fan of him ever since I played Eva Green at a SCG tournament a couple years ago; T1 Duress, T2 Hymn to Tourach, T3 Dark Ritual, Tombstalker was all some games took since I pulled their removal from their hand and then made the opposing players discard their combo pieces (I played against nothing but combo and Zoo back then lol).
I'd say use Tombstalker in the place of some other creature in a heartbeat.
Another solid recommendation would be Dark Confidant, but he's expensive so I can understand using Sign in Blood instead.
Lastly, Gatekeeper of Malakir over one of your forms of removal? Unless dealing with tokens, he seems very good.
I love Geth's Grimoire in discard--my casual deck runs 4 Hypnotic Specters, 2 Guul Draz, a playset of Nyxathids, 3 Abyssal Persecutors and four Innocent Bloods. Keep the opponent discarding super quickly with Dark Rits (turn 1 Hypnotic Specter into turn 2 Grimoire is my favorite play ever) and you end up generating yourself double card advantage every time a discard spell goes off.
Trying out discard again, but I'm testing this deck and it's not working too well. I think I don't have enough discard, and I'm not sure if I like Smallpox. I also don't feel like I have enough win conditions. How could I got about making this deck better? I'm not too familiar with discard, so I'm sure there are a lot of cards I am not aware of.
What I like about this deck now is turn one Dark Ritual to Duress followed by Hymn To Tourach and hopefully hitting a land and then turn two putting out The Rack.
This would be for one vs one games, and I'd like it to be vintage legal (although very casual) along with a budget of ~$50.
Ensnaring Bridge + Bottled Cloister is pretty nice. Soft-Lock plus Draw? Only issue is if Bottled Cloister gets removed but you have the discard to strip them of answers aside from that awesome top deck.
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Ensnaring Bridge seem to me a overkill card because a discard deck keep the flow of the enemy pretty slow and you have removal to keep out of the ways what he have time to drop.
Maybe more card advantage can be interesting to keep the discard flow and control all over the game because when he will be on top decking you will need no more discard. So you will have to rush to his dead.
Hypnotic Specter wasn't really great right now but it's pretty cool because long time ago it's one of the best start for a black control deck. So I didn't recommend it for power but for fashion.
Necrogen Mists You didn't need that card because when he will be in his top deck this card will do nothing to him but will be pain in the *** for you because it's will down your card to control him until you will be in top deck too. So it's really not a card I will include.
Hmm, interesting advice, I guess I don't need the Ensnaring Bridge. I'm trying to keep this very light on creatures if possible but Hypnotic Specter could fit perhaps. Are there more cards like The Rack that deal damage to opponents based on how few cards they have in their hands? Could those cards work? I guess I don't understand how I'm supposed to win if I don't end up drawing The Rack.
Well, you could continue beating them with the Specters and Bloodghast. Nyxathid and Tombstalkers are usually finishers back in my day. Nezumni Shortfang is the other Rack. Besides, Black Cat would synnergize with Innocent Blood, forcing him to discard at random and kill off his creatures.
Since Bloodghast is your only black permanent, I'd replace Leechridden Swamp with Bojuka Bog. Always good to have an answer to graveyard-oriented strategies when you're filling their 'yard, and in general.
Hypnotic Specter is much better here than Bloodghast. Sort of a must in MBC.
Consider Painful Quandary over Necrogen Mists. They'll most likely rabbit once you get them hellbent in order to avoid losing 5 life per spell played, essentially locking them out of the game. Or they'll only play a spell every other turn, which is pretty much a built-in time walk for the rest of the game
Hypnotic Specter is much better here than Bloodghast. Sort of a must in MBC.
Both didn't do the same thing and IMO you have enough sorcery discard that you didn't really need Hypnotic Specter. Bloodghast was amazing because you can get it without playing him. Discard it with Smallpox and you still get it back with land drop. You can strike again and again with Bloodghast even if you play 4x Innocent Blood and 4x Smallpox. Hypnotic Specter will be bad when you need to play Innocent Blood because you will have to sacrifice it. So IMO with the game choice made Bloodghast still a amazing card to win.
Nezumi Shortfang was a amazing discard because he can be activated in your opponents turn.
So what if he has Innocent Blood? So what of oen creature when he has other means of killing anyway. That's what Black does. So what one creature, or 2 life, I'm still gonna win anyway.
Its possible to make a UB with discard.
Just don't mix spells like counterspell and hymn to tourach together.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I am building a mono black discard deck to be used in mostly one on one matches, but will also occasionally see two-headed giant or emperor battles. The deck is mostly completed, but I have some holes hat need filling and a few too many cards to put in there. So basically ill just shut up and show you the cards already and hopefully you guys can help me out.
18 Swamp
Creatures
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Hypnotic Specter
Artifacts and Enchantments
2 Necropotence
4 The Rack
Spells
4 Dark Ritual
4 Funeral Charm
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Duress
1 Mind Twist
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Unmask
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Drain Life
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Meekstone
2 Nausea
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Kaervek's Spite
For the keen eyed ones out there you will notice thats 5 cards short.
the other considerations are:
Note: my group plays by its own sort of format, basically vintage without restrictions, and a few other wierd things but thats mostly it. Oh, for budget reasons I dont really want to spend more than $5 ish per card, so things like thoughtseize are out.
and as much as I love sol ring, theres too much in the deck that costs specifically black mana, and the colorless mana from sol ring wouldn't help as much as I would like
demonic tutor is also a little pricey from my budget. I should have mentioned this earlier, all the above cards in the lost I already own, so thats why you will see things like only 1 demonic or only 1 yawgmoth's will. And dont quote me on this, but i thought demonic tutor was kinda pricey?
so does +2 necropotence and +3 spinning darkness sound good to fill in the 5 card hole?
And for multiplayer I think I might put on the sideboard a few syphon mind just like you said.
You're overpacked on discard, and short on choices of removal, draw and wincons.
If you plan to win through The Rack, Shortfang is demanding.
I'd go with:
04 Hymn to Tourach
04 Dark Ritual
04 The Rack
04 Snuff Out
04 Sign in Blood
04 Nezumi Shortfang
04 Nyxathid
04 Hypnotic Specter
I don't think he's better than Megrim tbh.
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Funeral Charm seems like the weakest card of the bunch, to be honest. Mind Twist seems like it'd be a lot better of a choice (random discard >>> normal discard, chance for card advantage with more mana, etc.). I do understand that Funeral Charm is one of the extremely few cases of instant-speed discard in MtG- however, that just sounds like a win-more card when you could be using something to help you pull ahead while you're behind, rather than something to keep you ahead while you're already ahead. Actually, if you don't like Mind Twist, I do have another recommendation that I've playtested and loved myself...
Tombstalker. He's such a damn good creature in something like this that creates a bunch of extra cards in your graveyard by casting (28!) instants/sorceries. He's difficult to answer when your opponent has next to nothing in their hand, he's evasive in case the opponent does manage to get some chumps out to block Nyxathid, and he's a 4 turn clock unlike Hypnotic Specter and Vampire Nighthawk's 10 turn clock.
Tombstalker would expedite your games immensely, as if your opponent can't answer him, you win, and it requires less room in the deck than something like Vampire Hexmage and Dark Depths. I've been a fan of him ever since I played Eva Green at a SCG tournament a couple years ago; T1 Duress, T2 Hymn to Tourach, T3 Dark Ritual, Tombstalker was all some games took since I pulled their removal from their hand and then made the opposing players discard their combo pieces (I played against nothing but combo and Zoo back then lol).
I'd say use Tombstalker in the place of some other creature in a heartbeat.
Another solid recommendation would be Dark Confidant, but he's expensive so I can understand using Sign in Blood instead.
Lastly, Gatekeeper of Malakir over one of your forms of removal? Unless dealing with tokens, he seems very good.
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What I like about this deck now is turn one Dark Ritual to Duress followed by Hymn To Tourach and hopefully hitting a land and then turn two putting out The Rack.
This would be for one vs one games, and I'd like it to be vintage legal (although very casual) along with a budget of ~$50.
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Necrogen Mists
Control (14)
4x Geth's Verdict
4x Innocent Blood
4x Smallpox
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x The Rack
4x Bloodghast
Other (8)
4x Sign in Blood
4x Dark Ritual
18x Swamp
2x Leechridden Swamp
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
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GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
Gravecrawler, Nether Traitor, Nether Shadow.
I think I will suggest Gravecrawler, tougheter with carrion feeder and Geralf's Messenger for zombie suport.
From here You can use cards like Cry of Contrition and Tendrils of Despair or the best card: Cabal Therapy used tougher with duress or similar cards.
Maybe more card advantage can be interesting to keep the discard flow and control all over the game because when he will be on top decking you will need no more discard. So you will have to rush to his dead.
Hypnotic Specter wasn't really great right now but it's pretty cool because long time ago it's one of the best start for a black control deck. So I didn't recommend it for power but for fashion.
Necrogen Mists You didn't need that card because when he will be in his top deck this card will do nothing to him but will be pain in the *** for you because it's will down your card to control him until you will be in top deck too. So it's really not a card I will include.
So IMO I will go for
- 2 Ensnaring Bridge
- 2 Necrogen Mists
For more card advantage or for old fashion so:
+ 4 Night's Whisper
or
+ 4 Hypnotic Specter
WBGhost Council of OrzhovaBW
GUBThe MimeoplasmBUG
RGWort, the RaidmotherGR
UGRRiku of Two ReflectionsRGU
Casual
WGBJunkStone DeckBGW
BMonoBlack VampireB
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
Hypnotic Specter is much better here than Bloodghast. Sort of a must in MBC.
Ravenous Rats is okay if you can find room for him.
If you want to replace Smallpox, it all comes down to what you tend to see most often. Any of these could be an improvement based on your meta:
Memoricide/Cranial Extraction or Extirpate/Surgical Extraction help you shut down combo decks.
Appetite for Brains helps deny control decks their late game.
Inquisition of Kozilek deals with aggro and utility spells.
Consider Painful Quandary over Necrogen Mists. They'll most likely rabbit once you get them hellbent in order to avoid losing 5 life per spell played, essentially locking them out of the game. Or they'll only play a spell every other turn, which is pretty much a built-in time walk for the rest of the game
Mind Shatter/Mind Rot/Mind Sludge help deal with volume against decks with lots of card advantage.
Both didn't do the same thing and IMO you have enough sorcery discard that you didn't really need Hypnotic Specter. Bloodghast was amazing because you can get it without playing him. Discard it with Smallpox and you still get it back with land drop. You can strike again and again with Bloodghast even if you play 4x Innocent Blood and 4x Smallpox. Hypnotic Specter will be bad when you need to play Innocent Blood because you will have to sacrifice it. So IMO with the game choice made Bloodghast still a amazing card to win.
Nezumi Shortfang was a amazing discard because he can be activated in your opponents turn.
WBGhost Council of OrzhovaBW
GUBThe MimeoplasmBUG
RGWort, the RaidmotherGR
UGRRiku of Two ReflectionsRGU
Casual
WGBJunkStone DeckBGW
BMonoBlack VampireB
Sasky for the Sig.
I am in your [PACK]. Watching you... do... something.
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Ravenous Rats
2x Hypnotic Specter
4x Geth's Verdict
4x Innocent Blood
4x Smallpox
2x Nyxathid
2x Sign in Blood
2x Phyrexian Arena
4x Dark Ritual
1x Strip Mine
1x Sol Ring
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate