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“Together the soldiers were like a golden blade, cutting down their enemies and scarring the darkness.” – Honor of the Pure.
Introduction:
Welcome to the White Weenies Primer! White Weenies (abbreviated to WW) has been a classic archetype throughout almost all of Magic: The Gathering’s history. The Idea of the infamous White Weenies is simple; play cheap, efficient creatures and then proceed to smash your opponent’s face in. The lovely part about this type of deck is that it is relatively cheap to build and is a deck that players of all skill levels can understand and yet still remain competitive. WW is one of the most common decks seen floating around casual and kitchen sink games, and yet has also been powerful enough to have multiple championship wins (Tom Chanpheng in ’96, Matt Linde in ’98, and Kyle Rose in ’99). The first WW decks revolved around the classic cards like White Knight and Crusade all the way back in Alpha, and has since seen quite a few additions making WW very diverse in what you can put into your deck. Many of the newer cards have long since replaced the old white knight and crusade, but even today some of the old favorites still see play.
Strategy:
The main idea behind WW is to play very cheap and efficient creatures, usually costing around 1-3cmc at most, and use some cheap support to clear your path to victory. The good part about WW is that in the early game you will have some of the most powerful creatures on the board, and in the later game cards like Honor of the Pure and Crusade can turn your army of little soldiers into an army of 3/3 and 4/4 beaters. WW can also take advantage of some tribal effects, the most notable of them being knights, kithkins, soldiers, and most recently, humans. WW's mana curve is very low and does not need mana acceleration due to the fact that most of it's threats cost 1-2 mana. These cheap threats can then be backed up with some spot removal such as Swords to Plowshares or pump up enchantments such as Honor of the Pure. The biggest things to watch out for are board sweepers, so make sure to not over extend.
Basically:
-Play cheap creatures and put the pressure on early
-Play creature enhancements to keep the pressure late game
-Clear the way with cheap removal spells
-Win. Easier said than done.
The Cards:
First a word on basic deck construction:
Most WW decks run between 20-24 lands, 20-30 creatures, and 10-18 support cards. Most of the creatures in your deck should cost between 1 to 3 mana, with a decent balance of 1 drops and 2 drops, and slightly less 3 drops. Some decks also run 1-4 “finishers,” basically a big expensive creature or spell that can turn a long game into your favor, some of the examples being Sun Titan and Hero of Bladehold. Be wary about how many non-creature spells you run, if you run too many, you may have plenty of support but no creatures to use it on. Luckily for WW, there is plenty of variety in what you can play. There is no “you have to run caw-blade or you will lose” clause, and you can make your deck as competitive or budget friendly as you want and still be a fun deck to play. There are so many ways WW has spread out, from the classic version running basic pump, removal and cheap threats, to tribal soldiers/ kithkin/ knights, to some not-so-white WW decks running artifacts and tempered steel, but using the exact same mentality as other WW decks.
Flagstones of Trokair – Basically a plains that makes land destruction less effective against you. Also combos really well with Armageddon. Can be a little costly but definitely worth it if budget allows.
Emeria, The Sky Ruin – For longer games. If you can get 7 plains out with it, it will be very hard to stop you, but that also means you are at least 8 turns into the game, so many times the game will already be decided. But once it gets going, it gets GOING.
Karakas – Very useful to save your own legends or bounce an enemy one. Not budget friendly at all.
Kjeldoran Outpost – Uncounterable token generator, can be pretty useful mana sink.
Windbrisk Heights – We will be attacking with swarms often, so this can be pretty nice.
Judge's Familiar – Flying, which makes it usable, and can help delay some spell for a turn.
Hada Freeblade – Can be very good, needs to be either a 4-of or a none-of, but gets even better if also running kazandu blademaster.
Champion of the Parish – Most white weenies have human somewhere in the creature type, especially from errata, making him very powerful.
Doomed Traveler - Not bad, since it gives you basically 2 creatures for only 1 mana.
War Falcon/Loyal Pegasus - Flying savannah lions, but has to have the right stuff with it otherwise it's garbage.
Icatian Javelineers - Very interesting card for white. The ability to ping little guys is pretty nice, even if it is only a one-time deal. There are ways to bounce/flicker him to regain the token.
Steppe Lynx - The first few turns we will be playing lands hopefully, so this guy can usually be a 2/3.
Glittering Lynx - Hard to remove, but an otherwise vanilla 1/1 really isn't all that powerful. Useful for budget/pauper lists.
Dryad Militant - Elite Vanguard with some added graveyard hate.
Soldier of the Pantheon - strictly better than elite vanguard with the protection and possible lifegain. Can't be hit with popular cards like abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse or anything with hybrid mana.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros - A decent one drop that can turn into something much more powerful later in the game without needing any further mana investment.
White Knight – The classic White Weenie. Still playable, but mostly useful against black. (duh)
Knight of the Holy Nimbus – Ridiculous name, but with ridiculous power. A 2/2 flanking is fine, but the regeneration thing makes it really hard to kill. Most players have to go out of their way to pay that extra 2 mana.
Knight of Meadowgrain – 2 good abilities on a 2/2 body is nice, and has good creature types. Lifelink is important when racing your opponent.
Stoneforge Mystic – If you are running equipment, these gals are just plain awesome. Not entirely budget friendly though.
Grand Abolisher – Excellent vs. control, combos really nicely with Knight of the Holy Nimbus, and still has a 2/2 body. Very useful, but can be a little pricey.
Raise the Alarm – Not really a creature, but two 1/1s at instant speed has its uses.
Mistmeadow Skulk - Interesting budget option, not the best but can be decent depending on your meta.
True believer - A walking leyline of Sanctity, which is both good and bad. It's cheaper, and can fight, but is easier to get rid of and you can't start the game with it.
Serra Avenger - One of the strongest 2 drops around. You can even cheat it into play with Aether Vial.
Ballyrush Banneret - Not bad for sort-of mana ramp, but most of our guys are cheap to begin with.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - Hurts control and combo decks a lot, but requires building around. Use her in extremely creature heavy builds.
Kor Aeronaut - It flies, and can give others flying latter in the game.
Accorder Paladin - Battle cry is what makes this guy. 3 power on a 2 drop and a buff for everyone else, the only problem is that he gets killed often with only 1 toughness.
Precinct Captain - 2/2 first strike for 2 ain't bad itself, never mind the fact that he generates tokens. He is basically a must answer threat or else your opponent will get run over by soldiers real quick.
Phyrexian Revoker - A expert-level card, but sees a lot of use in legacy and even vintage. It requires that you know your opponent's deck well enough to know what cards to call. Not necessary, but It's really good if used properly.
Spirit of the Labyrinth - solid card against blue decks with brainstorm-style cards, as well as some combo decks. hits hard but is too easily killed to get a "highly recommended" status. still solid and efficient, but what decks you're playing against first.
Phalanx leader – not terrible but has a very interesting mini-combo with flickering ward for reoccurring pumps for everyone.
Containment Priest – Decent card to bring out of the sideboard against decks that try to cheat out fatties through reanimation or opponents using aether vial, as well as other scenarios. Be aware that it includes yourself so it will stop your own aether vials as well as the germ token on batterskull.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit - Powerful 2 drop that is an odd version of a walking HotP. The good news is the buffs stick around even if she dies, the downside is the counters may end up going to something like a Mother of Runes when you want it to go on your mirran crusader.
Mirran Crusader – Very powerful, and just plain silly if you put a Sword of _ and _ or Umezawa’s Jitte on it.
Spectral Procession – I know it’s technically not a creature, but three 1/1 flyers for 3 mana is very good, especially if you have Honor of the Pure out.
Mentor of the Meek – Most of our guys have 2 or less power, so he can be a very good draw engine, as the only other really good option for mono white draw is Scroll Rack + Land Tax, which is NOT budget friendly at all. Note: HotP and friends give +1/+1 before mentor checks, so don not run mentor if you have a lot of buff.
Aven Mindcensor – Meta choice, useful for disrupting fetch lands and tutors, but there are usually better things we can run at 3 mana.
Fiend Hunter – A decent option as it is a creature and removal in one, but generally means that you play a little defensively with it, making it a tad slow, but still good.
Paladin en-vec - Budget version of mirran crusader basically. The protections it offers though make it resilient to removal.
Wilt-leaf Cavaliers - 3 mana for a 3/4 vigilance is not bad at all, but there are more powerful things we could be doing at 3 mana.
Flickerwisp - An "expert" level card. doesn't look like much, but that flicker ability can be huge, and a 3/1 flyer can close out a game.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos - pretty meaty and is good on both offense and defense, also generates a lot of tokens for a pretty efficient mana cost.
Thunder Spirit – A flyer with first strike and overall pretty efficient, but not all that flashy.
Soltari Champion – practically unblockable with a better version of battle cry.
Vryn Wingmare - a flying version of thalia, works great as a 5th or 6th copy of her and doesn't get caught up with the legendary clause.
Sun Titan – If it hits the board, often time its GG, as that army your opponent worked so hard to kill is suddenly coming back, and they are not happy.
Hero of Bladehold – Army on a stick, can easily do quite a bit of damage in and of itself, nevermind any other creatures that are on the board as well.
Ranger of Eos – Not as damaging as the above two, but offers very good card advantage that WW needs.
Wilt-leaf Liege - Good against discard, and offers a decent buff, but nothing to get giddy over.
Celestial Crusader – Budget finisher, It gives a boost and is uncounterable, but not the best.
Conqueror's Pledge – Again, not a creature, but an insta-army is rather resilient to spot removal and deals quite a bit of damage, and can be devastating with an HotP out. Decent budget finisher.
Mobilization - Both a buff and a token generator. A little slow, but better in a soldier deck.
Wrath of God – Normally this is a no-go, but if you have something like Knight Exemplar then it can be game changing.
Harsh Mercy - Slightly better than Wrath of God sometimes, and cheaper, decent board sweeper for tribal decks.
Ghostway - Useful to save your guys from either your own (not likely, the day we get 8 plains in a game will be a sad day) or more importantly, an opponent's wrath effect.
Cauldron Haze - Does similar shenanigans as the card above but at less mana, but doesn't save our 1 toughness guys too much.
Armageddon – If you get plenty of threats on the field, this can shut down an opponents ability to stop you.
Militia’s Pride – Interesting, but make sure you have plenty of non-token creatures around.
Disenchant – For pesky artifacts and enchantments. Usually chills out on the sideboard.
Aether Vial – Pricey, but accelerates your deck very well as they mostly cost the same, and makes them uncounterable. Can be amazing to have hanging around after an Armageddon.
Brave the Elements – Protection is a very versatile ability, and for 1 mana its pretty darn good.
Shelter – Single target BtE, but also draws a card, which is important for WW as we don’t have much in that department in budget lists.
Leyline of Sanctity – Good protection against many combos, and many burn/discard decks just roll over if it sticks.
Charge Across the Araba - The white Overrun. Doesn't give trample, but can be used at instant speed.
Spear of Heliod - anthem effect that is also be a kill-spell on a stick.
Other Stuff To Look At:
***Note: most of these deck lists came from –spooky-‘s article, so give credit where credit is due.
This is a casual Primer, so specific matchups are very hard to point out, but we can generalize against the three main deck types; aggro, control, and combo.
Aggro:
These are usually our best match ups. We are running very fast creatures that are generally more powerful than other creatures of similar casting costs. To do well we need to race our opponets and kill them faster than they kill us. Spot removal will be our best friend in these games, taking out key threats and letting our creatures handle the lesser guys.
Control:
This one is about 50/50. It depends on the type of control they are using. Our creatures will be rather superior to the junk that control puts out early. The only problem will be the control decks finisher. To win you need to get in as much damage as possible as quickly as possible, as control is way better equiped to win the longer the game goes. Our creatures will be going mostly unchecked if they hit the board and survive the removal, but the problem is keeping them alive. Control decks usually run quite a bit of removal, so our goal is to keep on consistently playing threats but never over-extending, as wrath of God effects are the ones that absolutely hammer us. We will never have card advantage over a control deck, but cards that offer CA will help us greatly, so cards like squadron hawk are really useful. Again, protection spells will also help keep our guys alive, but keep in mind they still can't save them from wrath effects.
Combo:
Probably our worst matchup. Our best bet is to simply kill them fast enough so they can’t get the combo off, but that is not always effective. Anything we can do to disrupt the combo and delay it a few turns can turn the match into our favor. Spot Removal can disrupt creature based combos, and cards like ethersworn canonist and leyline of sanctity can help us against other versions. Protection spells will usually be rather useless here.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Excellent primer. As before, I'll recommend Plow Through Reito and Charge Across the Araba as support spells. Charge is basically White's Overrun, plus it has synergy with landfall, which could actually help both with Steppe Lynx and, if used as finisher, with Emeria Angel (letting you build a sudden, huge flying weenie force in a few turns), allowing you to 'recycle' swept Plains. More importantly, Charge Across the Araba is instant, not a sorcery like Overrun, meaning you can turn even just 2 or 3 weenies into a lethal strike if the opponent figures he can let them ping him.
Glad you liked it I must have missed this the last time you posted, my apologies.
I like the idea of a white overrun, Charge Across the Araba seems pretty interesting, my only wish was that it gave some kind ability like trample to make that buff really hurt. Luckily, we have stuff like Brave the Elements to help get that damage through. Due to the fact that we have no other spells in the primer quite like it yet, I think I'll add it.
Plow Through Reito on the other hand, will not make the cut. Charge is good because we can give multiple guys +5/+5 and that will usually kill some one. Plow would take a heck of a lot more plains to be more worthwhile, and it is way easier for an opponent to deal with one fatty than 4 fatties. The fact that it only costs 2 doesn't help it's case either, as it really is only worthwhile once you have atleast 4 or more lands out. In this spot I would rather run something like Honor of the Pure as it is less situational and lasts longer/harder to remove.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
First of all I want a really hard-hitting fast deck, I was thinking to change somethings like this:
-4 Oblivion Rings
+4 Path to Exile
-2 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
+2 Angelic Destiny
and add a few Heroes of Bladehold. My main objective is clean the kitchen table and win a few FNM.
Obs.: Sorry about the English, I'm Brazilian
That looks like a pretty solid list for humans. I agree that the daggers are pretty lack luster. Angelic destiny is alright, but if your budget allows for it then you should try to get umezawa's jitte.
About the O-rings; I might not throw all of them out. This of course depends on your meta, but if there are some pesky artifacts/enchantment floating around you show at least have them hide out on the sideboard. you have some decent creature removal as-is with bonds of faith and fiend hunter. If you do want to put the path's in, then you might want to switch out the fiend hunters for something either faster, such as just about any of the 2 drops since you have none (sort of), or you could put in those Heroes you mentioned.
The one thing you want to keep in mind is that you don't want to run too much removal spells, as they will slow down your tempo.
Also; on a side note, is this deck supposed to be standard or modern or something? or was this just made from the cards you have?
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Actually i bought the event deck from INN ''Hold the Line'' and add a few cards that a already have.
I've never played a tournament before, but, I think the deck should be for Standar right? I'm a entusiastic for magic and love this ****ing game just for own my brothers and fellows from the city. My objective right now is buy 2 or 4 Angelic Destiny and 2 Hero of Bladehold for late game. Maybe 2 Path to Exile. I will post here all modifications for you.
Actually i bought the event deck from INN ''Hold the Line'' and add a few cards that a already have.
I've never played a tournament before, but, I think the deck should be for Standar right? I'm a entusiastic for magic and love this ****ing game just for own my brothers and fellows from the city. My objective right now is buy 2 or 4 Angelic Destiny and 2 Hero of Bladehold for late game. Maybe 2 Path to Exile. I will post here all modifications for you.
Although the deck is currently standard legal, even if you make those changes, all the cards form M12 and the Scars of Mirrodin block will be leaving standard shortly. It would then fit into the Modern format. Not that any of that will really matter if you don't play in tournements, but it is nice to keep in mind.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Also is there a website that I can use to look at all the Clerics? There was a great website that I used back in the day to look at all the creature cards of different creature types, but it hasn't been updated since 2006.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
That's a pretty solid list, but you have a lot of lifegain and no real use for it, I would recommend dropping the soul warden for soltari priest/soltari monk. they work a lot better considering you have 8 HotP effects, so they will easily be attacking for 3-4 unblockable damage most of the time. Of course, with all the shadow guys Masko the humorless would be kinda useless, I would recommend dropping him as well. Death or glory seems mediocre to me, usually it will only revive 1-2 guys anyway, and that spot could be better filled with more creatures that you can play earlier.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
I can't decide if I should run 4 True Believer or not. It's a really solid card, especially against Burn decks and discard decks, but this deck matches up very well against burn decks, due to the lifegain and mother of runes, and it matches up very well against discard decks because it's fast. Also, having 2 True Believers doesn't give me any extra abilities than having 1 in play. However, it only costs 2 for a 2/2 with a solid ability.
I'm also thinking about running 4 Adaptive Automaton but I'm not sure what to take out.
I can't decide if I should run 4 True Believer or not. It's a really solid card, especially against Burn decks and discard decks, but this deck matches up very well against burn decks, due to the lifegain and mother of runes, and it matches up very well against discard decks because it's fast. Also, having 2 True Believers doesn't give me any extra abilities than having 1 in play. However, it only costs 2 for a 2/2 with a solid ability.
I'm also thinking about running 4 Adaptive Automaton but I'm not sure what to take out.
I wouldn't run more than 2 at most, as you said you already have a decent matchup against burn/discard, no need to add extra power against decks that you can already handle. Also, think about card numbers. If you run 4-of a card, that means that the card is a very important card to your deck that you want to see as much as possible. True believer isn't one of those key cards in your deck. Heck, you take him out of the deck entirely if you want, and still be alright against those decks.
Adaptive Automaton is decent as a walking HotP, but be careful that he doesn't gain the benefits from Honor. Although you could actually take Honor of the Pure out and put him in instead, as for only one more mana you do get a body that can deal some damage by itself and counts as a cleric.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Door of Destinies is way too slow. At best, it will be the same as an honor of the pure by turn 5. sure, by turn 6-7 you could have some fatties, but if it takes 7 turns for an aggro deck to become a threat you've already lost. keep on running whatever combination of Honor of the Pure, Shared Triumph, and Adaptive Automaton you are currently running.
Battletide alchemist is cute, but you already have decent lifegain, you don't need to make sure your opponent never deals you damage, you just need to make sure they don't hit you for your last. The current problem I see with your deck is you aren't fast enough to be a true aggro deck, and if your deck is slow it should pack a hell of a punch later on, which again, your deck doesn't exactly do. What you need to do is either speed up the deck or or have some real good abilities that you're willing to wait a few extra turns for.
The only card I like that you mentioned was Mirror entity. this is one of those abilities that I was talking about a second ago.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
That's a pretty solid list already. My recommendation is that you drop some of the 2 - of's for more of cards that are working for you. I'd pick either Isamaru/student of warfare, put one up to 4 and drop the other entirely. Same with Accorder paladin/Thalia. Personally, I don't like Thalia in a deck that runs 13 noncreature spells, but that's more my personal bias than anything. Also, I think you could get away with just 4 honor of the pure, and drop the anthems for a final swords to plowshares and 1 other card, which could be maybe another hero of bladehold/sword of war and peace if you have more floating around or maybe an oblivion ring, although it would be better to squeak in more than just 1.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
I think it'd be wrong to play the legandary critters 4x each - you don't want to draw a 2nd when you already have one out - or to drop them just because they're only twice in the deck. The arguement of Thalia hindering the non-creature spells however is valid. Crusade is rather cheap, if you want to replace Anthem ...
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
I think it'd be wrong to play the legandary critters 4x each - you don't want to draw a 2nd when you already have one out - or to drop them just because they're only twice in the deck. The arguement of Thalia hindering the non-creature spells however is valid. Crusade is rather cheap, if you want to replace Anthem ...
Ah you're right, I completely forgot about the legend rule while I was looking at this. Blut's right on that one. In that case i would leave the 1 drops as-is, but I would still recommend that you drop Thalia for more accorder paladins.
On a side note, I was looking at the Return to Ravnica cards earlier and saw Precinct Captain and Dryad Militant. Both look like good enough cards to add to the Primer. If anyone has any thoughts as to why they should/should not be in the Primer I would be happy to hear it.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Both are very efficient, add them.
- Militant will be not spectacular in most games, but if you can get random hate effects for free (that is if her being a Dryad does not matter) - why not take them?
- Cpt is a must answer card, at 2 mana. There are two drops that are better against specific matchups, but across the board, he's a bigger threat than most options.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
Both are very efficient, add them.
- Militant will be not spectacular in most games, but if you can get random hate effects for free (that is if her being a Dryad does not matter) - why not take them?
- Cpt is a must answer card, at 2 mana. There are two drops that are better against specific matchups, but across the board, he's a bigger threat than most options.
Thanks for the input, I just added them to the primer in their respective sections.
I also saw Judge's Familiar. I am on the fence about this one, right now it won't go in unless someone can give me good reason otherwise. Their ability to occasionally counter an instant or sorcery isn't all that great by itself, and in most cases the only spell I would want to counter I could deal with using Mother of Runes or Benevolent Bodyguard more effectively.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
If you have Suntail Hawk, you might as well mention the Owl, and Lantern Kami (?). The Owl can delay sweepers. Delay, because I doubt anyone would tap out into one, unless there's a good reason to trade a sweeper for the Owl... Anyways, one's to consider wether such a delay is worth the forgone damage output.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
Thats a solid list a think, but I need to take off 4 cards (the deck is running with 64 cards and 20 lands). Any help will rule my day !
Obs.: I will play a few FNM's with this deck
Thanks a lot !
As you said, it looks good already. Although 20 lands is small for most decks, I think you can get away with it here and not have many problems. The only card you have that costs more than 3 is your 2 Hero of Bladehold, and those are so powerful that you really shouldn't drop them. The two things that you could cut back on are either your 1 drops, or your buff spells. in the 1 drop category, you have champion of the parish who will be the most deadly of all the 1 drops, so keep him definately. elite vanguard and doomed traveler are both decent, maybe take one of each out? In the buff section, Angelic Destiny stands out to me. Why? Its a great card, but you have 3. And more importantly, you have Jitte and Sword of War and Peace. And more importantly than that, they cost 4, and you have a pretty aggressive mana base. I say you cut at least 1, because honestly, 6 super-buffs is not needed, 4 should work just handily.
Also, this may be personal nit-picking, but perhaps yo should re-look at your mana curve. you have plenty of 1 drops, but only 5 two drops, and the avengers can't be played early anyway, so you basically only have gather the townsfolk. You then have 7 three drops, which may be a little janky, especially since you only have 20 lands. I hate to say maybe drop a fiend hunter because they are your only removal, but perhaps you could put in another gather the townsfolk to lighten up on your mana curve. But I can't really make a definite call here, as I would have to know your meta better to judge whether curving out is more important than removal.
So If you don't want to read that wall of text, basically:
-also look at curve and maybe do some minor adjustments in the 2 drop spot.
@Blut: Since I mentioned suntail hawk I might as well mention the familiar. But we really don't need too many 1/1 flyings here, so I think I will replace the hawk with the familiar, as it is pretty much strictly better.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
And about the 2 drops I think the Grand Abolisher is great against many controls in the sideboard although Thalia works pretty well too.
In your opinion how many mana I should put to run smooth ? Without the modifications.
Grand Abolisher is nice because his ability doesn't slow down our spells as well, and he fits in your deck nicely because you don't have much in the 2 drop spot already. I personally prefer him over Thalia unless you have barely no other spells besides creatures. I recommend putting him in, and to make room for him try to take cards out that are higher up on the mana curve.
About the mana curve: You could get away with the current line-up of 20 lands, but you will find that occasionally some games you won't be able to hit your 3-4 drops on turn 3-4, sometimes you may have to wait a turn or two before that next land comes up. But you could get away with 20 lands and most games not have a problem with mana. My WW deck only runs 20 lands and once every games I only get 2 lands for the first few turns. But I have never really gotten a situation where that actually lost me the game or anything, usually it only means I have to play an honor of the pure instead of mirran crusader turn 3. I personally like to run aggressive mana bases in my decks, as it does help threat consistency, and I absolutely hate when I'm playing with an aggro deck and I start top-decking plains late in the game. But that's just me. Most people like to run 21-22 so they don't have to worry about it, but yeah, moral of the story is, 20 lands should be alright.
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.
Solid primer. I enjoyed reading it. I love White Weenie decks; one of my favorites is the Kithkin deck from Lorwyn-Shadowmoor-Shards of Alara Standard. Perhaps, you might want to add it to the sample deck lists. Almost every card is mentioned in your primer. I think the only ones you left out were Ajani Goldmane and Cloudgoat Ranger. It is fairly budget friendly.
Banner Thanks to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios.
– Honor of the Pure.
Introduction:
Welcome to the White Weenies Primer! White Weenies (abbreviated to WW) has been a classic archetype throughout almost all of Magic: The Gathering’s history. The Idea of the infamous White Weenies is simple; play cheap, efficient creatures and then proceed to smash your opponent’s face in. The lovely part about this type of deck is that it is relatively cheap to build and is a deck that players of all skill levels can understand and yet still remain competitive. WW is one of the most common decks seen floating around casual and kitchen sink games, and yet has also been powerful enough to have multiple championship wins (Tom Chanpheng in ’96, Matt Linde in ’98, and Kyle Rose in ’99). The first WW decks revolved around the classic cards like White Knight and Crusade all the way back in Alpha, and has since seen quite a few additions making WW very diverse in what you can put into your deck. Many of the newer cards have long since replaced the old white knight and crusade, but even today some of the old favorites still see play.
Strategy:
The main idea behind WW is to play very cheap and efficient creatures, usually costing around 1-3cmc at most, and use some cheap support to clear your path to victory. The good part about WW is that in the early game you will have some of the most powerful creatures on the board, and in the later game cards like Honor of the Pure and Crusade can turn your army of little soldiers into an army of 3/3 and 4/4 beaters. WW can also take advantage of some tribal effects, the most notable of them being knights, kithkins, soldiers, and most recently, humans. WW's mana curve is very low and does not need mana acceleration due to the fact that most of it's threats cost 1-2 mana. These cheap threats can then be backed up with some spot removal such as Swords to Plowshares or pump up enchantments such as Honor of the Pure. The biggest things to watch out for are board sweepers, so make sure to not over extend.
Basically:
-Play cheap creatures and put the pressure on early
-Play creature enhancements to keep the pressure late game
-Clear the way with cheap removal spells
-Win. Easier said than done.
The Cards:
First a word on basic deck construction:
Most WW decks run between 20-24 lands, 20-30 creatures, and 10-18 support cards. Most of the creatures in your deck should cost between 1 to 3 mana, with a decent balance of 1 drops and 2 drops, and slightly less 3 drops. Some decks also run 1-4 “finishers,” basically a big expensive creature or spell that can turn a long game into your favor, some of the examples being Sun Titan and Hero of Bladehold. Be wary about how many non-creature spells you run, if you run too many, you may have plenty of support but no creatures to use it on. Luckily for WW, there is plenty of variety in what you can play. There is no “you have to run caw-blade or you will lose” clause, and you can make your deck as competitive or budget friendly as you want and still be a fun deck to play. There are so many ways WW has spread out, from the classic version running basic pump, removal and cheap threats, to tribal soldiers/ kithkin/ knights, to some not-so-white WW decks running artifacts and tempered steel, but using the exact same mentality as other WW decks.
Flagstones of Trokair – Basically a plains that makes land destruction less effective against you. Also combos really well with Armageddon. Can be a little costly but definitely worth it if budget allows.
Emeria, The Sky Ruin – For longer games. If you can get 7 plains out with it, it will be very hard to stop you, but that also means you are at least 8 turns into the game, so many times the game will already be decided. But once it gets going, it gets GOING.
Karakas – Very useful to save your own legends or bounce an enemy one. Not budget friendly at all.
Kjeldoran Outpost – Uncounterable token generator, can be pretty useful mana sink.
Windbrisk Heights – We will be attacking with swarms often, so this can be pretty nice.
Rustic Clachan – Very nice if running kithkins.
Mutavault – Useful if running tribal WW, but only colorless mana doesn’t help a whole lot. Also costs a whole lot.
Cavern of Souls - most creatures we run are of similar creature types, and resistance to counters is really nice.
Elite Vanguard – A slightly better version of savannah lions as it gains human/ soldier benefits.
Isamaru, Hound of Konda – Pretty nice for only 1 mana, just be careful of the legendary clause.
Mother of Runes – One of the best 1 drops. Acts as a great blocker and saves your guys from spot removal. Very good, but not entirely cheap.
Student of Warfare – He’s a knight, but the level up mechanic isn’t all that great, but a 3/3 first strike can do some damage on t2.
Figure of Destiny – Decent, very similar to the level up guy above.
Goldmeadow Stalwart – Good if running kithkins, pretty awful if not.
Burrenton Forge-Tender – Good against red, usually sideboard material.
Judge's Familiar – Flying, which makes it usable, and can help delay some spell for a turn.
Hada Freeblade – Can be very good, needs to be either a 4-of or a none-of, but gets even better if also running kazandu blademaster.
Champion of the Parish – Most white weenies have human somewhere in the creature type, especially from errata, making him very powerful.
Doomed Traveler - Not bad, since it gives you basically 2 creatures for only 1 mana.
War Falcon/Loyal Pegasus - Flying savannah lions, but has to have the right stuff with it otherwise it's garbage.
Icatian Javelineers - Very interesting card for white. The ability to ping little guys is pretty nice, even if it is only a one-time deal. There are ways to bounce/flicker him to regain the token.
Steppe Lynx - The first few turns we will be playing lands hopefully, so this guy can usually be a 2/3.
Glittering Lynx - Hard to remove, but an otherwise vanilla 1/1 really isn't all that powerful. Useful for budget/pauper lists.
Dryad Militant - Elite Vanguard with some added graveyard hate.
Soldier of the Pantheon - strictly better than elite vanguard with the protection and possible lifegain. Can't be hit with popular cards like abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse or anything with hybrid mana.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros - A decent one drop that can turn into something much more powerful later in the game without needing any further mana investment.
Knight of the Holy Nimbus – Ridiculous name, but with ridiculous power. A 2/2 flanking is fine, but the regeneration thing makes it really hard to kill. Most players have to go out of their way to pay that extra 2 mana.
Knight of Meadowgrain – 2 good abilities on a 2/2 body is nice, and has good creature types. Lifelink is important when racing your opponent.
Knight of the White Orchid – Good if mana tends to be a problem, but usually there are better 2 drops.
Kazandu Blademaster – Very good even by itself, and easy on the budget.
White Shield Crusader – Pump knights used to be a staple back in the day. Not a bad mana sink.
Order of Leitbur/Order of the White Shield – Same as above, but first strike instead of flying.
Silver Knight – White knight for red.
Squadron Hawk – Although it doesn’t look intimidating, the fact that it guarantees more threats later on is very important in this type of deck.
Leonin Relic-Warder – Good sideboard choice.
Stoneforge Mystic – If you are running equipment, these gals are just plain awesome. Not entirely budget friendly though.
Grand Abolisher – Excellent vs. control, combos really nicely with Knight of the Holy Nimbus, and still has a 2/2 body. Very useful, but can be a little pricey.
Raise the Alarm – Not really a creature, but two 1/1s at instant speed has its uses.
Ethersworn Canonist – Good on the sideboard against combo decks.
Mistmeadow Skulk - Interesting budget option, not the best but can be decent depending on your meta.
True believer - A walking leyline of Sanctity, which is both good and bad. It's cheaper, and can fight, but is easier to get rid of and you can't start the game with it.
Serra Avenger - One of the strongest 2 drops around. You can even cheat it into play with Aether Vial.
Ballyrush Banneret - Not bad for sort-of mana ramp, but most of our guys are cheap to begin with.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - Hurts control and combo decks a lot, but requires building around. Use her in extremely creature heavy builds.
Kor Aeronaut - It flies, and can give others flying latter in the game.
Accorder Paladin - Battle cry is what makes this guy. 3 power on a 2 drop and a buff for everyone else, the only problem is that he gets killed often with only 1 toughness.
Loyal Cathar - Similar to Doomed Traveler as 2 bodies on one card.
Soltari Priest /Soltari Monk - Practically unblockable, and the protections make them hard to hit with removal.
Soltari Trooper - again, practically unblockable, trades protection for more damage.
Jotun Grunt - decent graveyard hate on a very cost efficient body. Works better off the sideboard than main-deck but its up to you.
Wizened Cenn - Walking HotP for kithkins.
Precinct Captain - 2/2 first strike for 2 ain't bad itself, never mind the fact that he generates tokens. He is basically a must answer threat or else your opponent will get run over by soldiers real quick.
Phyrexian Revoker - A expert-level card, but sees a lot of use in legacy and even vintage. It requires that you know your opponent's deck well enough to know what cards to call. Not necessary, but It's really good if used properly.
Kataki, War's Wage - Sideboard material that makes artifacts cry.
Spirit of the Labyrinth - solid card against blue decks with brainstorm-style cards, as well as some combo decks. hits hard but is too easily killed to get a "highly recommended" status. still solid and efficient, but what decks you're playing against first.
Phalanx leader – not terrible but has a very interesting mini-combo with flickering ward for reoccurring pumps for everyone.
Containment Priest – Decent card to bring out of the sideboard against decks that try to cheat out fatties through reanimation or opponents using aether vial, as well as other scenarios. Be aware that it includes yourself so it will stop your own aether vials as well as the germ token on batterskull.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit - Powerful 2 drop that is an odd version of a walking HotP. The good news is the buffs stick around even if she dies, the downside is the counters may end up going to something like a Mother of Runes when you want it to go on your mirran crusader.
Spectral Procession – I know it’s technically not a creature, but three 1/1 flyers for 3 mana is very good, especially if you have Honor of the Pure out.
Mentor of the Meek – Most of our guys have 2 or less power, so he can be a very good draw engine, as the only other really good option for mono white draw is Scroll Rack + Land Tax, which is NOT budget friendly at all. Note: HotP and friends give +1/+1 before mentor checks, so don not run mentor if you have a lot of buff.
Knight Exemplar – A must in for knight decks.
Aven Mindcensor – Meta choice, useful for disrupting fetch lands and tutors, but there are usually better things we can run at 3 mana.
Fiend Hunter – A decent option as it is a creature and removal in one, but generally means that you play a little defensively with it, making it a tad slow, but still good.
Paladin en-vec - Budget version of mirran crusader basically. The protections it offers though make it resilient to removal.
Wilt-leaf Cavaliers - 3 mana for a 3/4 vigilance is not bad at all, but there are more powerful things we could be doing at 3 mana.
Preeminent Captain - Basically the Goblin lackey for soldiers. A little slower, but more useful latter on.
Flickerwisp - An "expert" level card. doesn't look like much, but that flicker ability can be huge, and a 3/1 flyer can close out a game.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos - pretty meaty and is good on both offense and defense, also generates a lot of tokens for a pretty efficient mana cost.
Thunder Spirit – A flyer with first strike and overall pretty efficient, but not all that flashy.
Soltari Champion – practically unblockable with a better version of battle cry.
Vryn Wingmare - a flying version of thalia, works great as a 5th or 6th copy of her and doesn't get caught up with the legendary clause.
Hero of Bladehold – Army on a stick, can easily do quite a bit of damage in and of itself, nevermind any other creatures that are on the board as well.
Ranger of Eos – Not as damaging as the above two, but offers very good card advantage that WW needs.
Wilt-leaf Liege - Good against discard, and offers a decent buff, but nothing to get giddy over.
Kinsbaile Cavalier – Good if running knights.
Celestial Crusader – Budget finisher, It gives a boost and is uncounterable, but not the best.
Conqueror's Pledge – Again, not a creature, but an insta-army is rather resilient to spot removal and deals quite a bit of damage, and can be devastating with an HotP out. Decent budget finisher.
Increasing Devotion - Similar to conqueror's above, but can be cast again.
Journey to Nowhere – Decent substitute for the above cards.
Oblivion Ring – Good removal for more than just creatures.
Honor of the Pure – A staple, the modern replacement for Crusade.
Crusade – The old classic. Still usable substitute for HotP, also can be better if you have teammates also running white in multiplayer games.
Glorious Anthem - Outshone by the other pump ups above, but useful if for some reason you have non-white creatures as well.
Shared Triumph - Substitute for HotP in tribal versions.
Umezawa’s Jitte – Ah, the classic ruiner of creature fights. If you run Stoneforge Mystic, this is an absolute powerhouse. Priced appropriately.
Sword of Fire and Ice/Sword of Feast and Famine/Sword of War and Peace – All of these can be extremely powerful, although they are not cheap.
Batterskull – Stoneforge Mystic’s best friend.
Skullclamp – Very powerful, but some people may not be O.K with it, as it is banned in Legacy for a reason.
Land Tax – Very good card advantage, and basically once a turn ancestral recall with Scroll Rack. Again, not cheap.
Scroll Rack – See above.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant – All 3 abilities are useful, and the last one is basically GG.
Mobilization - Both a buff and a token generator. A little slow, but better in a soldier deck.
Wrath of God – Normally this is a no-go, but if you have something like Knight Exemplar then it can be game changing.
Harsh Mercy - Slightly better than Wrath of God sometimes, and cheaper, decent board sweeper for tribal decks.
Ghostway - Useful to save your guys from either your own (not likely, the day we get 8 plains in a game will be a sad day) or more importantly, an opponent's wrath effect.
Cauldron Haze - Does similar shenanigans as the card above but at less mana, but doesn't save our 1 toughness guys too much.
Armageddon – If you get plenty of threats on the field, this can shut down an opponents ability to stop you.
Militia’s Pride – Interesting, but make sure you have plenty of non-token creatures around.
Disenchant – For pesky artifacts and enchantments. Usually chills out on the sideboard.
Aether Vial – Pricey, but accelerates your deck very well as they mostly cost the same, and makes them uncounterable. Can be amazing to have hanging around after an Armageddon.
Brave the Elements – Protection is a very versatile ability, and for 1 mana its pretty darn good.
Shelter – Single target BtE, but also draws a card, which is important for WW as we don’t have much in that department in budget lists.
Leyline of Sanctity – Good protection against many combos, and many burn/discard decks just roll over if it sticks.
Charge Across the Araba - The white Overrun. Doesn't give trample, but can be used at instant speed.
Spear of Heliod - anthem effect that is also be a kill-spell on a stick.
Other Stuff To Look At:
Budget WW: ( From the Wizards article The Great White Weenie.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/59)
4 Akrasan Squire
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Veteran Armorsmith
4 Veteran Swordsmith
4 Conqueror's Pledge
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Leonion Relic-Warder
2 Jötun Grunt
2 Mother of Runes
2 Goldmeadow Harrier
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
Enchantments- 8
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Crusade
20 Plains
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Leonin Skyhunter
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Student of Warfare
4 Wall of Omens
4 White Knight
1 Elspeth Tirel
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Arid Mesa
16 Plains
4 Ajani's Pridemate
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Ascendant
3 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aether Vial
3 Brave the Elements
1 Infiltration Lens
3 Path to Exile
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Kabira Crossroads
15 Plains
4 Glint Hawk
3 Puresteel Paladin
3 Memnite
4 Mother of Runes
4 Ornithopter
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Wall of Omens
4 Swords to Plowshares
Enchantments-4
4 Quest for the Holy Relic
Artifacts-5
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Argentum Armor
16 Plains
4 Ancient Den
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Strip Mine
17 Plains
One Drops-12
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Thalia, guardian of Thraben
4 Serra Avenger
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Honor of the Pure
3 Mirran crusader
3 Flickerwisp
2 oblivion Ring
1 Spear of Heliod
Aggro:
These are usually our best match ups. We are running very fast creatures that are generally more powerful than other creatures of similar casting costs. To do well we need to race our opponets and kill them faster than they kill us. Spot removal will be our best friend in these games, taking out key threats and letting our creatures handle the lesser guys.
Control:
This one is about 50/50. It depends on the type of control they are using. Our creatures will be rather superior to the junk that control puts out early. The only problem will be the control decks finisher. To win you need to get in as much damage as possible as quickly as possible, as control is way better equiped to win the longer the game goes. Our creatures will be going mostly unchecked if they hit the board and survive the removal, but the problem is keeping them alive. Control decks usually run quite a bit of removal, so our goal is to keep on consistently playing threats but never over-extending, as wrath of God effects are the ones that absolutely hammer us. We will never have card advantage over a control deck, but cards that offer CA will help us greatly, so cards like squadron hawk are really useful. Again, protection spells will also help keep our guys alive, but keep in mind they still can't save them from wrath effects.
Combo:
Probably our worst matchup. Our best bet is to simply kill them fast enough so they can’t get the combo off, but that is not always effective. Anything we can do to disrupt the combo and delay it a few turns can turn the match into our favor. Spot Removal can disrupt creature based combos, and cards like ethersworn canonist and leyline of sanctity can help us against other versions. Protection spells will usually be rather useless here.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/59
http://mtgsalvation.com/1298-squandered-resources-white-weenie.html
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=278786
Soldiers Primer: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=344672
Kithkin Primer: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=347361
Samurai Deck Tech: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=427101
Pauper/Peasant: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=489216
Glad you liked it I must have missed this the last time you posted, my apologies.
I like the idea of a white overrun, Charge Across the Araba seems pretty interesting, my only wish was that it gave some kind ability like trample to make that buff really hurt. Luckily, we have stuff like Brave the Elements to help get that damage through. Due to the fact that we have no other spells in the primer quite like it yet, I think I'll add it.
Plow Through Reito on the other hand, will not make the cut. Charge is good because we can give multiple guys +5/+5 and that will usually kill some one. Plow would take a heck of a lot more plains to be more worthwhile, and it is way easier for an opponent to deal with one fatty than 4 fatties. The fact that it only costs 2 doesn't help it's case either, as it really is only worthwhile once you have atleast 4 or more lands out. In this spot I would rather run something like Honor of the Pure as it is less situational and lasts longer/harder to remove.
22 Plains
Creatures
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Champion Of the Parish
4 Fiend Hunter
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Bonds of Faith
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Gather the Townsfolk
Equipments
2 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
First of all I want a really hard-hitting fast deck, I was thinking to change somethings like this:
-4 Oblivion Rings
+4 Path to Exile
-2 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
+2 Angelic Destiny
and add a few Heroes of Bladehold. My main objective is clean the kitchen table and win a few FNM.
Obs.: Sorry about the English, I'm Brazilian
That looks like a pretty solid list for humans. I agree that the daggers are pretty lack luster. Angelic destiny is alright, but if your budget allows for it then you should try to get umezawa's jitte.
About the O-rings; I might not throw all of them out. This of course depends on your meta, but if there are some pesky artifacts/enchantment floating around you show at least have them hide out on the sideboard. you have some decent creature removal as-is with bonds of faith and fiend hunter. If you do want to put the path's in, then you might want to switch out the fiend hunters for something either faster, such as just about any of the 2 drops since you have none (sort of), or you could put in those Heroes you mentioned.
The one thing you want to keep in mind is that you don't want to run too much removal spells, as they will slow down your tempo.
Also; on a side note, is this deck supposed to be standard or modern or something? or was this just made from the cards you have?
I've never played a tournament before, but, I think the deck should be for Standar right? I'm a entusiastic for magic and love this ****ing game just for own my brothers and fellows from the city. My objective right now is buy 2 or 4 Angelic Destiny and 2 Hero of Bladehold for late game. Maybe 2 Path to Exile. I will post here all modifications for you.
Although the deck is currently standard legal, even if you make those changes, all the cards form M12 and the Scars of Mirrodin block will be leaving standard shortly. It would then fit into the Modern format. Not that any of that will really matter if you don't play in tournements, but it is nice to keep in mind.
4xSoul Warden
4xAuriok Champion
4xMother of Runes
4xBeloved Chaplain
4xSoltari Visionary
4xGrand Abolisher
4xDoubtless One
1xTrue Believer
1xMasako the Humorless
4xShared Triumph
4xHonor of the Pure
1xCrackdown
1xDeath or Glory
1xKarakas
1xFlagstones of Trokair
18xplains
Also is there a website that I can use to look at all the Clerics? There was a great website that I used back in the day to look at all the creature cards of different creature types, but it hasn't been updated since 2006.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
For finding clerics, you can go the the Gatherer on the magic main website and do and advanced search to find every cleric ever printed: here's a link to the search i did.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=+[W]&subtype=+[%22Cleric%22]
I'm also thinking about running 4 Adaptive Automaton but I'm not sure what to take out.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I wouldn't run more than 2 at most, as you said you already have a decent matchup against burn/discard, no need to add extra power against decks that you can already handle. Also, think about card numbers. If you run 4-of a card, that means that the card is a very important card to your deck that you want to see as much as possible. True believer isn't one of those key cards in your deck. Heck, you take him out of the deck entirely if you want, and still be alright against those decks.
Adaptive Automaton is decent as a walking HotP, but be careful that he doesn't gain the benefits from Honor. Although you could actually take Honor of the Pure out and put him in instead, as for only one more mana you do get a body that can deal some damage by itself and counts as a cleric.
If I add 4 of each, I guess that I could take out Death or Glory, Crackdown, True Believer, Akroma's Devoted, Soul Warden, and Auriok Champion. Should I add 4 of each?
Also, what are your thoughts on Oriss, Samite Guardian?
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Battletide alchemist is cute, but you already have decent lifegain, you don't need to make sure your opponent never deals you damage, you just need to make sure they don't hit you for your last. The current problem I see with your deck is you aren't fast enough to be a true aggro deck, and if your deck is slow it should pack a hell of a punch later on, which again, your deck doesn't exactly do. What you need to do is either speed up the deck or or have some real good abilities that you're willing to wait a few extra turns for.
The only card I like that you mentioned was Mirror entity. this is one of those abilities that I was talking about a second ago.
You have no need for Oriss, Samite Guardian in your deck. You already have Mother of Runes which is better in most practical cases.
In the end, i would recommend you drop True believer, masko the humorless, crackdown, and death or glory and put 4 mirror entity in instead.
EDIT: No removal at all? I think you should drop the soul warden's for any of the following; Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, or Oblivion Ring.
2 Sword of War and Peace
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Precinct Captain
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Student of Warfare
2 Accorder Paladin
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Glorious Anthem
2 Angelic Destiny
4 Honor of the Pure
Land
21 Plains
Spells
3 Swords to Plowshares
That's a pretty solid list already. My recommendation is that you drop some of the 2 - of's for more of cards that are working for you. I'd pick either Isamaru/student of warfare, put one up to 4 and drop the other entirely. Same with Accorder paladin/Thalia. Personally, I don't like Thalia in a deck that runs 13 noncreature spells, but that's more my personal bias than anything. Also, I think you could get away with just 4 honor of the pure, and drop the anthems for a final swords to plowshares and 1 other card, which could be maybe another hero of bladehold/sword of war and peace if you have more floating around or maybe an oblivion ring, although it would be better to squeak in more than just 1.
Crusade is rather cheap, if you want to replace Anthem ...
Ah you're right, I completely forgot about the legend rule while I was looking at this. Blut's right on that one. In that case i would leave the 1 drops as-is, but I would still recommend that you drop Thalia for more accorder paladins.
On a side note, I was looking at the Return to Ravnica cards earlier and saw Precinct Captain and Dryad Militant. Both look like good enough cards to add to the Primer. If anyone has any thoughts as to why they should/should not be in the Primer I would be happy to hear it.
- Militant will be not spectacular in most games, but if you can get random hate effects for free (that is if her being a Dryad does not matter) - why not take them?
- Cpt is a must answer card, at 2 mana. There are two drops that are better against specific matchups, but across the board, he's a bigger threat than most options.
Thanks for the input, I just added them to the primer in their respective sections.
I also saw Judge's Familiar. I am on the fence about this one, right now it won't go in unless someone can give me good reason otherwise. Their ability to occasionally counter an instant or sorcery isn't all that great by itself, and in most cases the only spell I would want to counter I could deal with using Mother of Runes or Benevolent Bodyguard more effectively.
Here is me new deck witch new toys
20 Plains
Creatures
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Elite vanguard
4 Champion of Parish
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Fiend Hunter
2 Serra Avenger
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Brave the elements
3 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Honor of the pure
3 Angelic Destiny
Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Celestial Purge
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Fiend Hunter
Thats a solid list a think, but I need to take off 4 cards (the deck is running with 64 cards and 20 lands). Any help will rule my day !
Obs.: I will play a few FNM's with this deck
Thanks a lot !
As you said, it looks good already. Although 20 lands is small for most decks, I think you can get away with it here and not have many problems. The only card you have that costs more than 3 is your 2 Hero of Bladehold, and those are so powerful that you really shouldn't drop them. The two things that you could cut back on are either your 1 drops, or your buff spells. in the 1 drop category, you have champion of the parish who will be the most deadly of all the 1 drops, so keep him definately. elite vanguard and doomed traveler are both decent, maybe take one of each out? In the buff section, Angelic Destiny stands out to me. Why? Its a great card, but you have 3. And more importantly, you have Jitte and Sword of War and Peace. And more importantly than that, they cost 4, and you have a pretty aggressive mana base. I say you cut at least 1, because honestly, 6 super-buffs is not needed, 4 should work just handily.
Also, this may be personal nit-picking, but perhaps yo should re-look at your mana curve. you have plenty of 1 drops, but only 5 two drops, and the avengers can't be played early anyway, so you basically only have gather the townsfolk. You then have 7 three drops, which may be a little janky, especially since you only have 20 lands. I hate to say maybe drop a fiend hunter because they are your only removal, but perhaps you could put in another gather the townsfolk to lighten up on your mana curve. But I can't really make a definite call here, as I would have to know your meta better to judge whether curving out is more important than removal.
So If you don't want to read that wall of text, basically:
-1 doomed traveler
-1 elite vanguard
-2 angelic destiny
-also look at curve and maybe do some minor adjustments in the 2 drop spot.
@Blut: Since I mentioned suntail hawk I might as well mention the familiar. But we really don't need too many 1/1 flyings here, so I think I will replace the hawk with the familiar, as it is pretty much strictly better.
Sorry Suntail Hawk. You are the weakest link.
-1 Doomed traveler
-1 Elite Vanguard
-1 Fiend Hunter
-1 Angelic Destiny
And about the 2 drops I think the Grand Abolisher is great against many controls in the sideboard although Thalia works pretty well too.
In your opinion how many mana I should put to run smooth ? Without the modifications.
Grand Abolisher is nice because his ability doesn't slow down our spells as well, and he fits in your deck nicely because you don't have much in the 2 drop spot already. I personally prefer him over Thalia unless you have barely no other spells besides creatures. I recommend putting him in, and to make room for him try to take cards out that are higher up on the mana curve.
About the mana curve: You could get away with the current line-up of 20 lands, but you will find that occasionally some games you won't be able to hit your 3-4 drops on turn 3-4, sometimes you may have to wait a turn or two before that next land comes up. But you could get away with 20 lands and most games not have a problem with mana. My WW deck only runs 20 lands and once every games I only get 2 lands for the first few turns. But I have never really gotten a situation where that actually lost me the game or anything, usually it only means I have to play an honor of the pure instead of mirran crusader turn 3. I personally like to run aggressive mana bases in my decks, as it does help threat consistency, and I absolutely hate when I'm playing with an aggro deck and I start top-decking plains late in the game. But that's just me. Most people like to run 21-22 so they don't have to worry about it, but yeah, moral of the story is, 20 lands should be alright.
16x Plains
4x Rustic Clachan
4x Windbrisk Heights
Dudes (26 total)
4x Goldmeadow Stalwart
4x Figure of Destiny
4x Wizened Cenn
4x Knight of the Meadowgrain
4x Spectral Procession
2x Ranger of Eos
4x Cloudgoat Ranger
4x Path to Exile
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Ajani Goldmane
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron