Are there any other changes that would need to be made to accomodate/optomize this package?
Also considering tossing in Rishadan Port. Anyone tried this in concert w/Winter Orb or is it just overkill?...or just unworkable b/c it doesn't produce :symg:? Maybe the artifacts could help balance it out?
I'm also wondering about Gaea's Cradle here..anyone tried it?
cradle is a dead draw in op hand, also that deck dont need a lot of mana, even a basic forest is better than cradle, in the other side, i run lotus petal in my stompy, since he fuel goyf ^^
if you wanna run the p9 artifacts, black lotus could be in place of lotus petal (i run 2), mox emerald in place of one forest
rishadan is slow too, orb works better, and we need pure G for mana
any casual stompy build can run 2 clamps, a long time ago my friend played a stompy build with skull clamp and creatures like uktabi drake and groundbreaker
about the troll ascetic build, sry but i dont have the list anymore, but he runs the full "mana" package, 4 land grant, 4 elvish spirit guide, 4 BoP/Noble or llanowar, 4 quirion ranger or other pack of mana creature, 2 lotus petal.
there are two other builds that are fast, UG and RG
the U abuse on creatures like
the R one is a semi zoo, runs goblin guide in place of the jungle lion and others, runs BoP and brute force and some lightning bolts
some of that build runs 2 radha, heir to keld, if she stay in field, free brute force and bolt
Tried this deck out last night for the first time.. After some very uninspiring goldfishing the night I built it, it played very strong against an actual opponent. I beat my buddy's foul monogreen infect (stompy-ish) deck 2 out of 2. It was rather stunning.
I'm gonna stick with this one a bit..seems pretty solid. Turn 1 Black Lotus->Jungle Lion->Rancor->Rancor was very tasty game two. Looking at my graveyard both matches, I realized a playset of Tarmogoyf are definitely on my horizon now. He would've been pretty big, both games.
Not a fan myself, I don't know how any builds like that manage to get good clocks going with birds and elves. The only tapping these creatures should be doing is by attacking.
Not a fan myself, I don't know how any builds like that manage to get good clocks going with birds and elves. The only tapping these creatures should be doing is by attacking.
Myr Superion Should be tried. THou I'd rather try another route. HOw about playing cost reducing cards? That new Artifact with Imprint that reduces casting cost of spells that share a type with the imprinted card by two. Thus making Superion Free to play.
Mutagenic Growth isn't great. It's good as a combat trick, and terrible as a damage booster. It is pretty great in Infect, though. Just stick to Giant Growth, Bounty of the Hunt, and Groundswell.
Good overview of cards, but it needs a history lesson, and more historical perspective. Here's what I consider the original stompy primer, written from a type 1 perspective (back when there was a type 1). Fair warning: tl;dr ahead!
In that context and in that era, it's easy to see why ESG was one of the best cards in the deck. It can be pitched for mana. It can be pitched to cast a creature or a pump spell. Not just any pump spell, but one that can save three creatures from a Pyroclasm when you're tapped out. Late game when you have the 2G anyway, it can become a bear.
That primer also explains why you never want to run Pouncing Jaguar in this deck. If it wasn't good even a decade ago with much fewer creature options, it can only be worse.
As for recent tech, the play most consistently hated by my opponent is putting Keen Sense on a Ledgewalker. Any deck without 4 Berserk will need to refill its hand as it enters the mid game, and for this and other reasons, I always have 4 Ledgewalkers and 2-3 Keen Sense in the main.
For those looking to take this deck into a more competitive arena, it's worth mentioning that recent Legacy implementations have gone to using more real land as opposed to tricks such as Land Grant. The problem with Land Grant is Force of Will, Daze, etc. Since you show them that you have no other land in your hand, they can counter your spell and effectively win the game on your very first turn. I play this deck only casually though, and prefer to have a 10 land deck just to say I have it. =)
I also like to imagine that he has a rotating torso (like a metallic graft that fuses his upper and lower body together), so he can spin all around, leveling everything within 20ft of him to rubble.
I'm pretty sure that the type 1 builds (and builders) were all terrible. They threw in highly unstable junk to win faster and still couldn't get a better than turn 4 deck.
In fact, the only way to get turn 3 wins (outside of absurd scenarios) is Berserk.
There really isn't any reason to play Bounty of the Hunt or Vine Dryad or try to win on 1 land and Quirion Ranger. Its horrible and can't beat blockers or non-toughness removal.
Consider a Pauper version that goldfishes on turn 4 like 95% of the time
I've played that online so there are no Masque block commons yet which would be Skyshroud Ridgeback and Seal of Strength. Those might be worth considering.
hey i was pretty excited about the idea so i threw together a deck and just wanted to share with everyone. it's really consistent and works very well overall....i really like the keen sense but in the end it might get cut idk just yet?
btw vault skirge is an all star here if i could run 12 i would just saying. it's fast efficient and the lifegain helps finish games when i normally would run out of gas.
cradle is a dead draw in op hand, also that deck dont need a lot of mana, even a basic forest is better than cradle, in the other side, i run lotus petal in my stompy, since he fuel goyf ^^
if you wanna run the p9 artifacts, black lotus could be in place of lotus petal (i run 2), mox emerald in place of one forest
rishadan is slow too, orb works better, and we need pure G for mana
i run 2 seal of strength to fuel goyfs too
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re: Tarmo-tech, would you mess w/Garruk here or is the game usually over by then?
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4 cmc dont have spot in that deck
even the slow version only runs 2 creatures at 3 cmc (troll ascetic)
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Yeah, if you run a 4CC in the deck, it had better be Natural Order. But even then, that card is actually pretty bad in here.
OK, that's about what I figured..a shame. Oh well, I need to find a new home for him. That's a good problem to have, eh?
Can you provide a link to this? Just curious to see it.
Thanks, everyone.
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about the troll ascetic build, sry but i dont have the list anymore, but he runs the full "mana" package, 4 land grant, 4 elvish spirit guide, 4 BoP/Noble or llanowar, 4 quirion ranger or other pack of mana creature, 2 lotus petal.
there are two other builds that are fast, UG and RG
the U abuse on creatures like
and of course berserk, rancor, brainstorm and other pump spells
the R one is a semi zoo, runs goblin guide in place of the jungle lion and others, runs BoP and brute force and some lightning bolts
some of that build runs 2 radha, heir to keld, if she stay in field, free brute force and bolt
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I run 2-3 in all my casual builds.
I'm gonna stick with this one a bit..seems pretty solid. Turn 1 Black Lotus->Jungle Lion->Rancor->Rancor was very tasty game two. Looking at my graveyard both matches, I realized a playset of Tarmogoyf are definitely on my horizon now. He would've been pretty big, both games.
Oh, and I officially Winter Orb now btw.
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They get good clocks going with a 5/6 and pump spells I would probably use Fyndhorn Elves > Birds of Paradise though.
NeoFinnity... A Control Affinity Primer
I think I'm going to nerf it a bit for my group - who is also tired of seeing my Rancor playset.
Anyway, I'm curious if Mutagenic Growth belongs? It's free* pump.
* MG may have small side effects, such as low life totals and irritable Ghazban Ogres. Consult XLS Primer writers before using.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4557651&postcount=1
TheWarden's Creative Commons Music Pick Project (Retired):
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336498
How about putting it in the primer when you get a chance?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4557651&postcount=1
TheWarden's Creative Commons Music Pick Project (Retired):
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Good overview of cards, but it needs a history lesson, and more historical perspective. Here's what I consider the original stompy primer, written from a type 1 perspective (back when there was a type 1). Fair warning: tl;dr ahead!
http://www.curby.net/pub/temp/bdominia.stompy.html
In that context and in that era, it's easy to see why ESG was one of the best cards in the deck. It can be pitched for mana. It can be pitched to cast a creature or a pump spell. Not just any pump spell, but one that can save three creatures from a Pyroclasm when you're tapped out. Late game when you have the 2G anyway, it can become a bear.
That primer also explains why you never want to run Pouncing Jaguar in this deck. If it wasn't good even a decade ago with much fewer creature options, it can only be worse.
As for recent tech, the play most consistently hated by my opponent is putting Keen Sense on a Ledgewalker. Any deck without 4 Berserk will need to refill its hand as it enters the mid game, and for this and other reasons, I always have 4 Ledgewalkers and 2-3 Keen Sense in the main.
For those looking to take this deck into a more competitive arena, it's worth mentioning that recent Legacy implementations have gone to using more real land as opposed to tricks such as Land Grant. The problem with Land Grant is Force of Will, Daze, etc. Since you show them that you have no other land in your hand, they can counter your spell and effectively win the game on your very first turn. I play this deck only casually though, and prefer to have a 10 land deck just to say I have it. =)
Keen Sense in a small tourney: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2765402#post2765402
Blue Splash, just because: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2973514#post2973514
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
In fact, the only way to get turn 3 wins (outside of absurd scenarios) is Berserk.
There really isn't any reason to play Bounty of the Hunt or Vine Dryad or try to win on 1 land and Quirion Ranger. Its horrible and can't beat blockers or non-toughness removal.
Consider a Pauper version that goldfishes on turn 4 like 95% of the time
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Vault Skirge/Scryb Sprites
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Porcelain Legionnaire
3 Garruk's Companion
3 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Briar Shield
4 Rancor
17 Forest
I've played that online so there are no Masque block commons yet which would be Skyshroud Ridgeback and Seal of Strength. Those might be worth considering.
3 elvish spirit guide
4 vault skirge
4 silhana ledgewalker
4 quirion ranger
4 rogue elephant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
2 nettle sentinel
2 scryb ranger
9 forest
4 land grant
Spells
4 mutagenic growth
4 rancor
4 giant growth
4 might of old krosa
4 keen sense
Cigarettes are a lot like hamsters, perfectly harmless until you stick one in your mouth and light it on fire.
Skirge makes me 'eww' a little bit, but I'm a little OCD. Not really your fault.
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