I wouldn't actually go with a 2/2/2 split of the 3 artifacts. The Throne is good, the Crown is decent enough, but the Scepter is absolutely terrible, even when you've assembled the 3 pieces. I'd run 1 Scepter/2 Crowns/3 Thrones. Yeah, only 1 Scepter makes your combo kinda fragile if they Oblivion Ring it, but IMO it's worth it for the times when you draw like 2 Scepters when the opponent's beating the snot out of you with little weenies.
Blue's got better artifact tutors then Fabricate. Tezzeret the Seeker may cost 3UU, but he puts the artifact directly into play, which makes it cheaper overall (Fabricate + Throne together costs 6U). There's also Tinker, but good luck finding them.
Etherium Sculptor and Grand Architect are both great ways to get your artifacts out ASAP (1 Sculptor + 1 Architect is 5 mana available for artifacts, and you can tap the Architect and any other of your creatures for mana the run you play them). Faerie Mechanist can also be accelerated by the Sculptor/Architect and allows to dig further for another artifact. Sculptor and Mechanist also fuel Metalcraft too. If you do go this way, Steel Hellkite and Wurmcoil Engine become better finishers than the Titan since they profit from all the artifact synergy.
As for other artifact related cards, there's no reason any Blue-based artifact deck shouldn't have Academy Ruins. Blue also have a great draw spells in Thoughtcast and Thirst of Knowledge for artifact-heavy decks. A good way to increase the amount of artifacts in your deck without taking up too much slots is Seat of the Synod.
Last point: 13 counterspells are a lot. I'd drop everything not Counterspell or Stoic Rebuttal for some early defense and card filtering. Preordain allows you to "throw away" cards that aren't what you need, while Ensnaring Bridge (your soldier tokens will easily slip under it), Thunderstaff (great at early defense and basically doubles the killing power of your tokens later on), Cumberstone (don't play this with Ensnaring Bridge, great at pissing off other token/weenie decks) and Norn's Annex (4 life hurst a lot though, especially in multiples) keep the heat off you while you assemble your combo.
Well, after spending years hating on the archetype, a friend finally convinced me to give it a try. Not quite sure what to think. I've been testing it versus some of my other decks and it does not seem to be able to hold its ground.
Recently got back into the game (always been a casual player). I did some research, dusted off my MUC, and went out and got some new cards. Any suggestions welcome.
Eventually i'd like to get some Fetchlands and Vedalken shackles.
Will Cryptic Command, Jace, Seat of Synod and/or Mishra/Faerie help this deck?
Format? mystical is banned in legacy, while brainstorm is restricted in vintage.
Yes, Jace, the mindsculptor helps. seat of the synod is worth it if you're planning to include tinker (which you probably should if this is vintage-legal, or "no format"). Along with tinker is either a big artifact creature.
I'd cut Map. I'd play 2cmc counters (cutting also Condescend). Snappy has 'only' 13 targets (Can't flashback Visions), five of which are 4cmc -> I guess he's also not that great in here. I'm not sure about the PWs, they don't fit traditional draw-go play, as they're sorcery speed; you don't have much to protect them from beats. Maybe additional FoFs will be better than atleast Jace, who can be expected to -2 once and die - or +1 some times and buy you a turn or two...
You currently list only 22 lands. Is that right or are there two more?
Force Spike is really greedy, and late game, what this deck needs and tries to reach, often a dead draw, there's also the option that your opponent simply plays around it if you play often and always have Spike. If you rotate it 'randomly' in and out of your deck, aganst people you play often against you get better results - if they play around it.
Rewind is a bit expensive for what it gives you back - I'd rather play another cheap counter and get some mana open through that.
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I recently traded and acquired a good deal more cards that would fit in the deck and have no idea how to allocate them. Possible additions include up to:
I am not sure where to take this idea as so far I have been rather unimpressed with the deck's performance (probably because the current build it terrible). I have difficulty decided the right number of counters against board control and know I do not have enough draw. In short, I am kind of lost here. Assume there is no banned list at all.
This may be the best deck I have made. It is a blue counterspell deck based on controlling the game. It is in the works and this is the deck I like the best. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
In my school there are multiple people that will be participating in a tournament at spring. So far I have only seen about 15 people who play the game. Me being the best so far in the school, I want to use this deck since it is very fun.
I recently traded and acquired a good deal more cards that would fit in the deck and have no idea how to allocate them. Possible additions include up to:
I am not sure where to take this idea as so far I have been rather unimpressed with the deck's performance (probably because the current build it terrible). I have difficulty decided the right number of counters against board control and know I do not have enough draw. In short, I am kind of lost here. Assume there is no banned list at all.
The first thing i noticed is that you're running 8 creatures - not enough for a tempo deck, but definitely on the heavy side for a control deck. While Delver can be a great card, he really shines when you can drop him early in the game, flip him, and then bash away while stalling your opponent. Classic MUC prefers to establish control first, and then drop a creature to sweep up the game once they already have it on lockdown. Sphinx and the Hellkite are very good for this role, so i would keep them, but delver is just going to eat removal early in the game, or cause you to waste valuable resources trying to protect it. If you still feel like you might need an additional wincon, Control Magic would be a great choice, but i'll leave that one up to you.
Secondly, decks like MUC are all about the card advantage. Each additional card you draw beyond that which your opponent draws increases your chances of winning. I usually shoot for at least 8 dedicated card drawing spells in a draw-go style deck, not including cards that replace themselves like Into the Roil. I'm a huge fan of Accumulated Knowledge, especially in decks that run Isochron Scepter. Get two or three copies into your graveyard, then stick one on the scepter, and you have a crazy card advantage engine.
Now, on to your bounce and removal. You have a deck that is set up very nicely to utilize Isochron Scepter, but cards like Nevinyrral's Disk and Devastation Tide will bounce and destroy your scepters along with their creatures, which can really hurt throughout the course of a game. Ratchet Bomb, on the other hand, can play around your Scepters, although it's slower. My suggestion would be to use them for swarms of smaller creatures and tokens, while using your bounce spells and countermagic for the big stuff.
Well, it looks like that leaves us with four slots left, as your deck only had 58 cards in it to start with. I like to run 16 counterspells in draw-go style decks, so I would add in those Memory Lapses. I typically prefer a hard counter, but Lapse can really slow down an opponent, which is always a good thing.
Final suggestions - you may need to tweak things around a little bit, depending upon whether your face more aggro, midrange, combo, or control, but this should at least get things working satisfactorily. Good luck!
This may be the best deck I have made. It is a blue counterspell deck based on controlling the game. It is in the works and this is the deck I like the best. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
In my school there are multiple people that will be participating in a tournament at spring. So far I have only seen about 15 people who play the game. Me being the best so far in the school, I want to use this deck since it is very fun.
Ah, now this is a deck that could really make use of those Delver of Secrets that i suggested IamBob remove from his deck. They would speed up your clock, and when you're throwing down Faeries and Snapcasters, they can add in more early game pressure than your opponent can handle. You already have plenty of library manupulation between Jace, Brainstorm, and Ponder, so getting them to flip would be no problem at all.
My only other suggestion would be removing the four copies of Seat of the Synod. Unless you need artifacts in your deck for some reason, all they do is make it easier for an opponent to destroy one of your lands. Since you already have a faerie subtheme, why not throw in two Faerie Conclaves? They can help you beat down an opponent when you need to race, or block for you in a tight spot. Since they come into play tapped, however, i wouldn't suggest more than two.
Your deck looks pretty well built already, so ultimately do whatever works best for you. I think these suggestions will help speed you up, but how well things work out will depend entirely on your meta. Either way, i think you're going to rock that tournament this spring.
Well, it looks like you've got a pretty nice build already tweaked to your liking. I've always liked Fact or Fiction over Jace's Ingenuity, so perhaps switching over from a two/two split to four FoFs?
Aaaaand now, for my own build. I just completed my version of classic draw-go style MUC. It does pretty well, although i'm not super happy with Daze. I do like having a counter i can cast for free though, as well as something that can be cast after the first turn in a pinch. I've been considering switching them over to Force Spike, or maybe going to a two/two split. This post is getting pretty long, so without further ado, here's my list:
Lat-Nam's Legacy is also extremely good draw due to it being instant speed and the same cost as the typical counterspell. Martyr of Frost makes for a great one drop. Stern Proctor is one of our best ways of dealing with Artifacts and Enchantments in lists utilizing Riptide Laboratory. Also, why isn't Remand on the list?
Lat-Nam's Legacy is also extremely good draw due to it being instant speed and the same cost as the typical counterspell. Martyr of Frost makes for a great one drop. Stern Proctor is one of our best ways of dealing with Artifacts and Enchantments in lists utilizing Riptide Laboratory. Also, why isn't Remand on the list?
I'm not sure I agree that Lat-Nam's Legacy is a good draw spell at all... It doesn't net you any cards. You cast it (-1 card), and then have to shuffle another card into your library (-1 card). Then later, you get two in return (+2 cards). You're spending the same amount of card advantage as you're gaining. By the time you've played through all four of them, you've spent a total of 8 cards, and drawn a total of 8 cards off of them.
Compare that to a "true" draw spell that actually nets you cards, Accumulated Knowledge. By the time you've played through four copies, you've spent a total of 4 cards, but gained a total of 10. Even if you only play two of them, you're spending two cards and getting back three in return. That's actual card advantage, whereas Lat-Nam is more of a filtering/thinning effect.
Good point. I run them because I try to keep cards in my deck, rather than my hand, for combo purposes, but I am always happy to draw one. They're better than they look, but you're right, Accumulated Knowledge is better.
I haven't seen Aetherling mentioned, and I'd like to experiment around with it. It can blink in and out, can swing unblocked, and can be pumped.
I'm concerned about my card draw. I'm unsure if these cards compliment the rest of the deck. Ancestral Vision is a good T1 drop, and Accumulated Knowledge can be imprinted to Isochron Scepter. Brainstorm is a good card, and I would like to know if there are other draw spells that would be better. I've considered Gitaxian Probe (because looking at your opponent's hand is awesome), Preordain, and Ponder
Also, should I bump the number of Scepters in the deck? What would be good bounce spells to put into the mainboard?
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Standard
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Modern 0 Affinity 0 U Mono Blue Tron U RGWNaya BurnWGR
Echoing Truth is usually my go-to choice for a bounce spell, especially when Isochron Scepter is involved. the ability to generate card advantage by bouncing multiple copies of an opponent's creature, or hosing massive token armies has won countless games for me. On that note, adding 1-2 more scepters would probably be a good idea. It's possible to play MUC without using any board wipes, but you'll need to have either lots of global bounce, or a decent spell on a scepter. Then include the fact that you'll probably want either Counterspell or a draw spell on a scepter too, and you'll want to end up with at least two scepters per game.
I've always liked 4 wincons, so perhaps you could trim two of the slots there to make room for more scepters? I'd also try to make room for at least two other bounce spells, although what you'd want to cut to make room there is up to you.
Alright, I'm looking for some constructive criticism on my MUC deck. My meta is fairly competitive, but extremely varied rendering things that expect a low curve all around like counter-top decks less effective.
Note: With an active Energy Field, during an opponent's turn you can Cunning Wish (exiles itself) for Mindgames or Capsize and use them with buyback without destroying Energy Field.
Edit: Tested Aetherling, and it is an absolute BOMB! The only complaint I have is the lack of flying in the rare cases that a flipped Delver made through the counterspell wall and now cannot be blocked. Haven't lost a game with this deck yet, but verging on losing friends due to Vedalken Shackles lol.
Just some things I find curiously absent from the list of cards:
Spiketail Drakeling - He's a clock you can drop while still leaving open an emergency counter. If you are running a more aggressive variant (which slightly increases the chance of your main game plan falling apart, but gives you slightly more resiliency if it does). Not sure if this counts as a counter or a speedbump, but it does serve as a little of column a, little of column b.
Looter il-kor - A card quality engine and source of damage as part of a balanced breakfast. I am honestly surprised that no looters were mentioned at all, they are excellent because they filter your hand a little bit every turn, letting you ditch what you don't need for what might be useful. il-kor has the disadvantage of not being able to choose when you filter and not being able to chump block for the boon of getting chip damage through. Shadow is rare enough that he's usually unblockable, and will reliably loot. Merfolk looter is the same cost, can activate as an instant, and can chump(though doesn't deal damage when he loots, and has no evasion). kind of fits into the theme I touched on with drakeling, trading a small amount of consistancy for greater resilience when plan A falls apart.
Psionic Blast - yeah it deals damage to you, but it's reliable removal for most creatures and the reach is not useless. If you would take 2 from an attacking creature, taking 2 from this is one time cost as opposed to taking 2 repeatedly, thus a net savings. And unlike bounce it is not card disadvantage. This is the card you want when your plans start falling apart.
Snakeform - If you have creatures this is a solid piece of removal, and it cantrips, potential source of CA if something gets past your counter screen. Not as solid as psionic blast, higher highs and lower lows. at worst it's a damage preventing cantrip.
errant ephemeron - drops cheap and early, has appreciable power and evasion. Drop it turn 4 and it will hit turn 8, and all of your mana will be available to protect it.
Deep-sea Kraken - Similar to ephemeron, only bigger and completely unblockable. Punishes your opponent for playing spells by speeding him up.
Lonely Sandbar - etb tapped, which is annoying, but it offers you the chance to ditch lands for more gas. This also applies to the urza's saga version that I am too lazy to look up at the moment.
Oona's Grace - CYCLE ALL THE LANDS!!!! a bit expensive, but in a more casual deck it can pay off.
Aether spellbomb - a bounce that can cycle, never a bad thing. Fetchable with trinket mage.
Rystic Study - it's either a draw agent or a one way sphere of resistance, yeah they get the choice, but the effect requires no further input, it just sits there and keeps giving you value, and sometimes it will give you the counter needed to stop the spell that was "worth giving you a card" for the earlier drop.
So, I reworked the deck a little and was hoping for some feedback. I had some fun extra parts sitting around and one thing led to another...
So I took the expensive tempo creatures out of a legacy deck that could not use them properly, and thought maybe they can fit in here... the issue is where?
the deck's currently is a bit unfocused, that is true, i just don't know if i should go tempo or traditional control
as it stands there is not enough countermagic and i don't know what to add in because budget and all. The board can laugh at aggro all day long, bringing in 6 wipes and mystical tutor for the miracle goodness.
I am considering getting my hands on an academy ruins or two and dropping the sphinxes for more hellkites, because i like blowing things up
Mana base looks iffy on paper, with the amount of draw it has never been an issue in practice. that said, i can probably drop a brainstorm or two
4 wincons became 3 when my EDH deck needed some creatures
So, I reworked the deck a little and was hoping for some feedback. I had some fun extra parts sitting around and one thing led to another...
So I took the expensive tempo creatures out of a legacy deck that could not use them properly, and thought maybe they can fit in here... the issue is where?
the deck's currently is a bit unfocused, that is true, i just don't know if i should go tempo or traditional control
as it stands there is not enough countermagic and i don't know what to add in because budget and all. The board can laugh at aggro all day long, bringing in 6 wipes and mystical tutor for the miracle goodness.
I am considering getting my hands on an academy ruins or two and dropping the sphinxes for more hellkites, because i like blowing things up
Mana base looks iffy on paper, with the amount of draw it has never been an issue in practice. that said, i can probably drop a brainstorm or two
4 wincons became 3 when my EDH deck needed some creatures
1) I realize that casual has no "banned and restricted list", but given that mystical tutor is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage, most people will look askance at 3 copies.
2) why have snap in board? He's good in almost every situation, i'm curious as to what matchup needs him so much.
3) why bother with mana leak when runesnag.exists = true? Yeah the first is slightly worse, it is better the rest of the game. If you were running 3 or less the choice would make sense, but when you're running the playset rune snag is better.
4) you seem to have a really high count of ca/cq cards. It might work, but I would think you would be better off with more busines cards.
1) I realize that casual has no "banned and restricted list", but given that mystical tutor is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage, most people will look askance at 3 copies.
2) why have snap in board? He's good in almost every situation, i'm curious as to what matchup needs him so much.
3) why bother with mana leak when runesnag.exists = true? Yeah the first is slightly worse, it is better the rest of the game. If you were running 3 or less the choice would make sense, but when you're running the playset rune snag is better.
4) you seem to have a really high count of ca/cq cards. It might work, but I would think you would be better off with more busines cards.
Mostly because I don't own any rune snags. Is rewind good enough to make the cut?
Snapcaster is in the board because i honestly forgot i had him until i was filling in slots for the board.
which CA/CQ do you think I should cut? Without fetches brainstorm often only lets me know just how screwed I am for the next 3 turns, instead I suppose more business should go in.
I have a bunch of dazes, the spell pierces obviously, snapcaster, what would you increase and decrease?
2 mysticals come out when people complain, what would take the slot? Might go down to a single copy since i am switching metas soon and the new one might not be so open
I also managed to get my hands on a chalice of the void, think there is a place for it? I have a couple control magics lying around, and can likely remove some stuff from my edh (blue sun's zenith, dominating licid, a second nevinyral's disk, another steel hellkite) as I don't use it much if you think there is a place for it.
Mostly because I don't own any rune snags. Is rewind good enough to make the cut?
rewind is good, but making sure you have enought 2cc counters (you seem to) is important. Higher cc counters are nice inn smll doses. The only 4cc counter I play with any regularity is mystic snake, but that obviously won't fly here. I tend not to like rewind (I prefer the cantrip one), but that's a taste issue, I do realize it's good.
Snapcaster is in the board because i honestly forgot i had him until i was filling in slots for the board.
move him up, he does everything but your laundry.
which CA/CQ do you think I should cut? Without fetches brainstorm often only lets me know just how screwed I am for the next 3 turns, instead I suppose more business should go in.
brainstorm still has merits, even without fetches, and if needed you can the common fetches (terramorphic expanse, evolving wilds) to get that effect, thought there are drawbacks to that. Ponder and preordain aren't bad calls either, though as sorceries you have to be more careful about picking your spots.
I have a bunch of dazes, the spell pierces obviously, snapcaster, what would you increase and decrease?
spell pierce is neat, but the inability to stop creatures is painful. Daze or forcespike would be my choice, though with both of those I would prefer having a looter in the deck (my preference is looter il-kor, but merfolk looter has advantages), along with always stylish remand. I would cut gush or spellpierce, definitely have spellpierce in the board because there are several types of decks that don't appreciate it.
2 mysticals come out when people complain, what would take the slot? Might go down to a single copy since i am switching metas soon and the new one might not be so open
Mystical teachings is workable, and it gives you an excuse to use fetches, and one or two swamps to use the flashback. It also opens up forbidden alchemy. If you don't have fetches 4 copies of the u/b dual of choice will more than suffice. I know the archetype is monoblue, but relly don't think anyone would fault you for the tiny splash needed to activate flashback. I've done similar in the past and had decent results. The only issue is the high casting cost of teachings, but it's an instant, and due to flashback it generates actual card advantage (like a laser scoped think twiceo.
I also managed to get my hands on a chalice of the void, think there is a place for it? I have a couple control magics lying around, and can likely remove some stuff from my edh (blue sun's zenith, dominating licid, a second nevinyral's disk, another steel hellkite) as I don't use it much if you think there is a place for it.
Chalice is very much a double edged sword, if you craft your deck the right way, with plenty of effects at various mana costs to enable you to pitch the stuff you turned off it works, either that or suck up the fact that you are going to kill some of your own stuff. Alternately you can craft your deck around a certain casting cost you intend to turn off, but withou acceleration, you just can't do it fast enough to get enough value out of it, and you'd need more copies, otherwise it gets to be too much variance.
A second disk would be nice, but you have to ask yourself how much you need it in the deck you're taking it from (which I can't answer for you), but as a one of you can pretty much count on never having it when you need it. Licid and zenith aren't going to do enough as one ofs, and you have enough hellkites, unless you are going to cut sphinxes. Always remember, as a control player, increased variance is more harmful to you than your opponent. Variance is how they break your control.
There's more I could say, but my bus stop is coming up and it's raining, so I might as well post what I have so far.
Ok, current version. Lacks turn one plays but can board a ton of sweeps for aggro and become a serious tempo challenge to fight combo
Mystical tutor and gush only come out if strictly necessary, those have saved my bacon more times than I can count. If people complain i'll go down to one each so it's played as restricted instead of banned. That would open 3 slots, so probably ass in the disks for real sweeper power and another land, because i dislike having so few but do not know what to remove anymore
I had never heard of Grip of Amnesia until I searched "Counter target spell" on Gatherer.
Guys.
Why have I not seen this card before? Sub it in against a graveyard deck. They'll never remove their graveyard from the game, sure, but even then it's a more color-flexible Counterspell that cantrips.
I had never heard of Grip of Amnesia until I searched "Counter target spell" on Gatherer.
Guys.
Why have I not seen this card before? Sub it in against a graveyard deck. They'll never remove their graveyard from the game, sure, but even then it's a more color-flexible Counterspell that cantrips.
The only hole I could see in it is a deck that could just build up another graveyard instantly, but even that is a step backwards for tempo and setup.
Regardless, this counter is going to be my pet sideboard card.
Cute, but I would rather use Relic of progenitus, or tormod's crypt as graveyard hate, and not give my opponent options. It's a usable option, but you are better off with normal counters and boarding in crypt or relic.
1) early game they might let the counter slide, and just refill their yard.
2) there are MANY options in reanimator decks that it can't target, but crypt and relic will handle beautifully.
Cute, but I would rather use Relic of progenitus, or tormod's crypt as graveyard hate, and not give my opponent options. It's a usable option, but you are better off with normal counters and boarding in crypt or relic.
1) early game they might let the counter slide, and just refill their yard.
2) there are MANY options in reanimator decks that it can't target, but crypt and relic will handle beautifully.
Who's saying you can't use them together? You could make a pretty cool casual no-Stasis Stasis deck with it, Relic of Progenitus, Web of Inertia, Winter Orb, Daze, Gush, and Thwart. The deck becomes mono-U reanimator bane that can function perfectly well outside of reanimator match-ups.
early game they might let the counter slide, and just refill their yard.
If you needed to counter it in the first place, then it shouldn't matter if they let you counter it. You answered a threat that needed answering and drew a card.
And besides, isn't casual about having fun even if you're not using the most competitive deck?
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I wouldn't actually go with a 2/2/2 split of the 3 artifacts. The Throne is good, the Crown is decent enough, but the Scepter is absolutely terrible, even when you've assembled the 3 pieces. I'd run 1 Scepter/2 Crowns/3 Thrones. Yeah, only 1 Scepter makes your combo kinda fragile if they Oblivion Ring it, but IMO it's worth it for the times when you draw like 2 Scepters when the opponent's beating the snot out of you with little weenies.
Blue's got better artifact tutors then Fabricate. Tezzeret the Seeker may cost 3UU, but he puts the artifact directly into play, which makes it cheaper overall (Fabricate + Throne together costs 6U). There's also Tinker, but good luck finding them.
Etherium Sculptor and Grand Architect are both great ways to get your artifacts out ASAP (1 Sculptor + 1 Architect is 5 mana available for artifacts, and you can tap the Architect and any other of your creatures for mana the run you play them). Faerie Mechanist can also be accelerated by the Sculptor/Architect and allows to dig further for another artifact. Sculptor and Mechanist also fuel Metalcraft too. If you do go this way, Steel Hellkite and Wurmcoil Engine become better finishers than the Titan since they profit from all the artifact synergy.
As for other artifact related cards, there's no reason any Blue-based artifact deck shouldn't have Academy Ruins. Blue also have a great draw spells in Thoughtcast and Thirst of Knowledge for artifact-heavy decks. A good way to increase the amount of artifacts in your deck without taking up too much slots is Seat of the Synod.
Last point: 13 counterspells are a lot. I'd drop everything not Counterspell or Stoic Rebuttal for some early defense and card filtering. Preordain allows you to "throw away" cards that aren't what you need, while Ensnaring Bridge (your soldier tokens will easily slip under it), Thunderstaff (great at early defense and basically doubles the killing power of your tokens later on), Cumberstone (don't play this with Ensnaring Bridge, great at pissing off other token/weenie decks) and Norn's Annex (4 life hurst a lot though, especially in multiples) keep the heat off you while you assemble your combo.
4 delver of secrets
2 sphinx of jwar isle
2 steel hellkite
Sorceries
3 ancestral vision
2 devastation tide
Instants
4 counterspell
4 mana leak
4 spell pierce
4 into the roil
1 nevinyrral's disk
2 ratchet bomb
3 isochron scepter
Land
23 island
4 mental misstep
4 surgical extraction
2 ratchet bomb
5 open slots
Format? mystical is banned in legacy, while brainstorm is restricted in vintage.
Yes, Jace, the mindsculptor helps.
seat of the synod is worth it if you're planning to include tinker (which you probably should if this is vintage-legal, or "no format"). Along with tinker is either a big artifact creature.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Condescend
4x Vapor Snag
4x Cryptic Command
1x Fact or Fiction
2x Nevinyrral's Disk
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Expedition Map
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
3x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2x Faerie Conclave
2x Halimar Depths
1x Academy Ruins
Any advice is appreciated.
18 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
Wincons: 5
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Call the Skybreaker
1 Morphling
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
Board Control: 7
4 Echoing Truth
3 Powder Keg
3 Rewind
4 Force Spike
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
Any ideas for draw go?
I'd cut Map. I'd play 2cmc counters (cutting also Condescend). Snappy has 'only' 13 targets (Can't flashback Visions), five of which are 4cmc -> I guess he's also not that great in here. I'm not sure about the PWs, they don't fit traditional draw-go play, as they're sorcery speed; you don't have much to protect them from beats. Maybe additional FoFs will be better than atleast Jace, who can be expected to -2 once and die - or +1 some times and buy you a turn or two...
You currently list only 22 lands. Is that right or are there two more?
Force Spike is really greedy, and late game, what this deck needs and tries to reach, often a dead draw, there's also the option that your opponent simply plays around it if you play often and always have Spike. If you rotate it 'randomly' in and out of your deck, aganst people you play often against you get better results - if they play around it.
Rewind is a bit expensive for what it gives you back - I'd rather play another cheap counter and get some mana open through that.
4 memory lapse
4 brainstorm
2 nevinyrral's disk
4 accumulated knowledge
3 gush
1 control magic
1 evacuation
3 devastation tide
4 blue elemental blast
The current deck stands as follows:
4 delver of secrets
2 sphinx of jwar isle
2 steel hellkite
Sorceries
3 ancestral vision
2 devastation tide
Instants
4 counterspell
4 mana leak
4 spell pierce
4 into the roil
1 nevinyrral's disk
2 ratchet bomb
3 isochron scepter
Land
23 island
4 mental misstep
4 surgical extraction
2 ratchet bomb
5 open slots
I am not sure where to take this idea as so far I have been rather unimpressed with the deck's performance (probably because the current build it terrible). I have difficulty decided the right number of counters against board control and know I do not have enough draw. In short, I am kind of lost here. Assume there is no banned list at all.
4x Sower of Temptation
4x Vendilion Clique
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Daze
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Ponder
4x Mana Leak
4x Brainstorm
20x Island
In my school there are multiple people that will be participating in a tournament at spring. So far I have only seen about 15 people who play the game. Me being the best so far in the school, I want to use this deck since it is very fun.
22 Island
2 Faerie Conclave
1 Lonely Sandbar
Counters/Bounce: 17
4 Counterspell
4 Memory Lapse
4 Boomerang
2 Cryptic Command
2 Evacuation
1 Pact of Negation
4 Impulse
2 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Fact or Fiction
Utility: 7
4 Isochron Scepter
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Vedalken Shackles
The first thing i noticed is that you're running 8 creatures - not enough for a tempo deck, but definitely on the heavy side for a control deck. While Delver can be a great card, he really shines when you can drop him early in the game, flip him, and then bash away while stalling your opponent. Classic MUC prefers to establish control first, and then drop a creature to sweep up the game once they already have it on lockdown. Sphinx and the Hellkite are very good for this role, so i would keep them, but delver is just going to eat removal early in the game, or cause you to waste valuable resources trying to protect it. If you still feel like you might need an additional wincon, Control Magic would be a great choice, but i'll leave that one up to you.
- 4 Delver of Secrets
Secondly, decks like MUC are all about the card advantage. Each additional card you draw beyond that which your opponent draws increases your chances of winning. I usually shoot for at least 8 dedicated card drawing spells in a draw-go style deck, not including cards that replace themselves like Into the Roil. I'm a huge fan of Accumulated Knowledge, especially in decks that run Isochron Scepter. Get two or three copies into your graveyard, then stick one on the scepter, and you have a crazy card advantage engine.
+4 Accumulated Knowledge
Now, on to your bounce and removal. You have a deck that is set up very nicely to utilize Isochron Scepter, but cards like Nevinyrral's Disk and Devastation Tide will bounce and destroy your scepters along with their creatures, which can really hurt throughout the course of a game. Ratchet Bomb, on the other hand, can play around your Scepters, although it's slower. My suggestion would be to use them for swarms of smaller creatures and tokens, while using your bounce spells and countermagic for the big stuff.
-1 Nevinyrral's Disk
-2 Devastation Tide
+1 Isochron Scepter
Well, it looks like that leaves us with four slots left, as your deck only had 58 cards in it to start with. I like to run 16 counterspells in draw-go style decks, so I would add in those Memory Lapses. I typically prefer a hard counter, but Lapse can really slow down an opponent, which is always a good thing.
+4 Memory Lapse
Final suggestions - you may need to tweak things around a little bit, depending upon whether your face more aggro, midrange, combo, or control, but this should at least get things working satisfactorily. Good luck!
Ah, now this is a deck that could really make use of those Delver of Secrets that i suggested IamBob remove from his deck. They would speed up your clock, and when you're throwing down Faeries and Snapcasters, they can add in more early game pressure than your opponent can handle. You already have plenty of library manupulation between Jace, Brainstorm, and Ponder, so getting them to flip would be no problem at all.
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-2 Ponder
+4 Delver of Secrets
My only other suggestion would be removing the four copies of Seat of the Synod. Unless you need artifacts in your deck for some reason, all they do is make it easier for an opponent to destroy one of your lands. Since you already have a faerie subtheme, why not throw in two Faerie Conclaves? They can help you beat down an opponent when you need to race, or block for you in a tight spot. Since they come into play tapped, however, i wouldn't suggest more than two.
-4 Seat of the Synod
+2 Faerie Conclave
+2 Island
Your deck looks pretty well built already, so ultimately do whatever works best for you. I think these suggestions will help speed you up, but how well things work out will depend entirely on your meta. Either way, i think you're going to rock that tournament this spring.
Well, it looks like you've got a pretty nice build already tweaked to your liking. I've always liked Fact or Fiction over Jace's Ingenuity, so perhaps switching over from a two/two split to four FoFs?
Aaaaand now, for my own build. I just completed my version of classic draw-go style MUC. It does pretty well, although i'm not super happy with Daze. I do like having a counter i can cast for free though, as well as something that can be cast after the first turn in a pinch. I've been considering switching them over to Force Spike, or maybe going to a two/two split. This post is getting pretty long, so without further ado, here's my list:
22 Island
4 Faerie Conclave
Creatures: 4
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
2 Guile
4 Daze
4 Rune Snag
4 Counterspell
4 Cryptic Command
2 Ponder
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Fact or Fiction
Bounce/Utility: 6
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Echoing Truth
Edit: if possible, i'd also like to sneak a copy of Vedalken Shackles in there too... perhaps i should remove a Keiga for one?
I'm not sure I agree that Lat-Nam's Legacy is a good draw spell at all... It doesn't net you any cards. You cast it (-1 card), and then have to shuffle another card into your library (-1 card). Then later, you get two in return (+2 cards). You're spending the same amount of card advantage as you're gaining. By the time you've played through all four of them, you've spent a total of 8 cards, and drawn a total of 8 cards off of them.
Compare that to a "true" draw spell that actually nets you cards, Accumulated Knowledge. By the time you've played through four copies, you've spent a total of 4 cards, but gained a total of 10. Even if you only play two of them, you're spending two cards and getting back three in return. That's actual card advantage, whereas Lat-Nam is more of a filtering/thinning effect.
24 Island
Counter Spells
4 Counterspell
4 Daze
4 Mana Leak
4 Rune Snag
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
Utility
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Into the Roll
4 Aetherling
2 Guile
I haven't seen Aetherling mentioned, and I'd like to experiment around with it. It can blink in and out, can swing unblocked, and can be pumped.
I'm concerned about my card draw. I'm unsure if these cards compliment the rest of the deck. Ancestral Vision is a good T1 drop, and Accumulated Knowledge can be imprinted to Isochron Scepter. Brainstorm is a good card, and I would like to know if there are other draw spells that would be better. I've considered Gitaxian Probe (because looking at your opponent's hand is awesome), Preordain, and Ponder
Also, should I bump the number of Scepters in the deck? What would be good bounce spells to put into the mainboard?
TBD
Modern
0 Affinity 0
U Mono Blue Tron U
RGWNaya BurnWGR
Pauper
UDelverU
WUB Esper Teachings BUW
I've always liked 4 wincons, so perhaps you could trim two of the slots there to make room for more scepters? I'd also try to make room for at least two other bounce spells, although what you'd want to cut to make room there is up to you.
1 Academy Ruins
2 Reliquary Tower
2 Faerie Conclave
18 Island
Counters (14):
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
4 Rune Snag
3 Cryptic Command
Win Cons (3):
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
Utility/Speed Bumps (13):
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Energy Field
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Propaganda
4 Cunning Wish
Wishboard (In Progress):
1 GY Hate?
1 Capsize
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mindgames
1 Counterspell
1 Aetherize
1 Mindbreak trap
1 Opportunity
1 Echoing Truth
1 Noxious Revival
1 Dismember
1 Fact or Fiction
Note: With an active Energy Field, during an opponent's turn you can Cunning Wish (exiles itself) for Mindgames or Capsize and use them with buyback without destroying Energy Field.
Also, awaiting an opportunity to test Aetherling in place of the singleton Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Edit: Tested Aetherling, and it is an absolute BOMB! The only complaint I have is the lack of flying in the rare cases that a flipped Delver made through the counterspell wall and now cannot be blocked. Haven't lost a game with this deck yet, but verging on losing friends due to Vedalken Shackles lol.
Spiketail Drakeling - He's a clock you can drop while still leaving open an emergency counter. If you are running a more aggressive variant (which slightly increases the chance of your main game plan falling apart, but gives you slightly more resiliency if it does). Not sure if this counts as a counter or a speedbump, but it does serve as a little of column a, little of column b.
Looter il-kor - A card quality engine and source of damage as part of a balanced breakfast. I am honestly surprised that no looters were mentioned at all, they are excellent because they filter your hand a little bit every turn, letting you ditch what you don't need for what might be useful. il-kor has the disadvantage of not being able to choose when you filter and not being able to chump block for the boon of getting chip damage through. Shadow is rare enough that he's usually unblockable, and will reliably loot. Merfolk looter is the same cost, can activate as an instant, and can chump(though doesn't deal damage when he loots, and has no evasion). kind of fits into the theme I touched on with drakeling, trading a small amount of consistancy for greater resilience when plan A falls apart.
Psionic Blast - yeah it deals damage to you, but it's reliable removal for most creatures and the reach is not useless. If you would take 2 from an attacking creature, taking 2 from this is one time cost as opposed to taking 2 repeatedly, thus a net savings. And unlike bounce it is not card disadvantage. This is the card you want when your plans start falling apart.
Snakeform - If you have creatures this is a solid piece of removal, and it cantrips, potential source of CA if something gets past your counter screen. Not as solid as psionic blast, higher highs and lower lows. at worst it's a damage preventing cantrip.
errant ephemeron - drops cheap and early, has appreciable power and evasion. Drop it turn 4 and it will hit turn 8, and all of your mana will be available to protect it.
Deep-sea Kraken - Similar to ephemeron, only bigger and completely unblockable. Punishes your opponent for playing spells by speeding him up.
Lonely Sandbar - etb tapped, which is annoying, but it offers you the chance to ditch lands for more gas. This also applies to the urza's saga version that I am too lazy to look up at the moment.
Oona's Grace - CYCLE ALL THE LANDS!!!! a bit expensive, but in a more casual deck it can pay off.
Aether spellbomb - a bounce that can cycle, never a bad thing. Fetchable with trinket mage.
Rystic Study - it's either a draw agent or a one way sphere of resistance, yeah they get the choice, but the effect requires no further input, it just sits there and keeps giving you value, and sometimes it will give you the counter needed to stop the spell that was "worth giving you a card" for the earlier drop.
So I took the expensive tempo creatures out of a legacy deck that could not use them properly, and thought maybe they can fit in here... the issue is where?
the deck's currently is a bit unfocused, that is true, i just don't know if i should go tempo or traditional control
as it stands there is not enough countermagic and i don't know what to add in because budget and all. The board can laugh at aggro all day long, bringing in 6 wipes and mystical tutor for the miracle goodness.
I am considering getting my hands on an academy ruins or two and dropping the sphinxes for more hellkites, because i like blowing things up
Mana base looks iffy on paper, with the amount of draw it has never been an issue in practice. that said, i can probably drop a brainstorm or two
4 wincons became 3 when my EDH deck needed some creatures
3 Memory Lapse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Mystical Tutor
3 Gush
3 Ancestral Visions
4 Brainstorm
2 Devastation Tide
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Steel Hellkite
21 Island
1 Devastation Tide
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Nevinyral's Disc
4 Spell Pierce
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1) I realize that casual has no "banned and restricted list", but given that mystical tutor is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage, most people will look askance at 3 copies.
2) why have snap in board? He's good in almost every situation, i'm curious as to what matchup needs him so much.
3) why bother with mana leak when runesnag.exists = true? Yeah the first is slightly worse, it is better the rest of the game. If you were running 3 or less the choice would make sense, but when you're running the playset rune snag is better.
4) you seem to have a really high count of ca/cq cards. It might work, but I would think you would be better off with more busines cards.
Mostly because I don't own any rune snags. Is rewind good enough to make the cut?
Snapcaster is in the board because i honestly forgot i had him until i was filling in slots for the board.
which CA/CQ do you think I should cut? Without fetches brainstorm often only lets me know just how screwed I am for the next 3 turns, instead I suppose more business should go in.
I have a bunch of dazes, the spell pierces obviously, snapcaster, what would you increase and decrease?
2 mysticals come out when people complain, what would take the slot? Might go down to a single copy since i am switching metas soon and the new one might not be so open
I also managed to get my hands on a chalice of the void, think there is a place for it? I have a couple control magics lying around, and can likely remove some stuff from my edh (blue sun's zenith, dominating licid, a second nevinyral's disk, another steel hellkite) as I don't use it much if you think there is a place for it.
3 Memory Lapse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Mystical Tutor
3 Gush
3 Ancestral Visions
3 Isochron Scepter
2 Devastation Tide
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Steel Hellkite
21 Island
1 Devastation Tide
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Nevinyral's Disc
4 Delver of Secrets
1 mystical tutor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
rewind is good, but making sure you have enought 2cc counters (you seem to) is important. Higher cc counters are nice inn smll doses. The only 4cc counter I play with any regularity is mystic snake, but that obviously won't fly here. I tend not to like rewind (I prefer the cantrip one), but that's a taste issue, I do realize it's good.
move him up, he does everything but your laundry.
brainstorm still has merits, even without fetches, and if needed you can the common fetches (terramorphic expanse, evolving wilds) to get that effect, thought there are drawbacks to that. Ponder and preordain aren't bad calls either, though as sorceries you have to be more careful about picking your spots.
spell pierce is neat, but the inability to stop creatures is painful. Daze or forcespike would be my choice, though with both of those I would prefer having a looter in the deck (my preference is looter il-kor, but merfolk looter has advantages), along with always stylish remand. I would cut gush or spellpierce, definitely have spellpierce in the board because there are several types of decks that don't appreciate it.
Mystical teachings is workable, and it gives you an excuse to use fetches, and one or two swamps to use the flashback. It also opens up forbidden alchemy. If you don't have fetches 4 copies of the u/b dual of choice will more than suffice. I know the archetype is monoblue, but relly don't think anyone would fault you for the tiny splash needed to activate flashback. I've done similar in the past and had decent results. The only issue is the high casting cost of teachings, but it's an instant, and due to flashback it generates actual card advantage (like a laser scoped think twiceo.
Chalice is very much a double edged sword, if you craft your deck the right way, with plenty of effects at various mana costs to enable you to pitch the stuff you turned off it works, either that or suck up the fact that you are going to kill some of your own stuff. Alternately you can craft your deck around a certain casting cost you intend to turn off, but withou acceleration, you just can't do it fast enough to get enough value out of it, and you'd need more copies, otherwise it gets to be too much variance.
A second disk would be nice, but you have to ask yourself how much you need it in the deck you're taking it from (which I can't answer for you), but as a one of you can pretty much count on never having it when you need it. Licid and zenith aren't going to do enough as one ofs, and you have enough hellkites, unless you are going to cut sphinxes. Always remember, as a control player, increased variance is more harmful to you than your opponent. Variance is how they break your control.
There's more I could say, but my bus stop is coming up and it's raining, so I might as well post what I have so far.
Mystical tutor and gush only come out if strictly necessary, those have saved my bacon more times than I can count. If people complain i'll go down to one each so it's played as restricted instead of banned. That would open 3 slots, so probably ass in the disks for real sweeper power and another land, because i dislike having so few but do not know what to remove anymore
3 Memory Lapse
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell
3 Daze
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Mystical Tutor
3 Gush
3 Ancestral Visions
3 Isochron Scepter
2 Devastation Tide
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Steel Hellkite
21 Island
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Nevinyral's Disc
4 Delver of Secrets
1 mystical tutor
1 Devastation Tide
4 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
Guys.
Why have I not seen this card before? Sub it in against a graveyard deck. They'll never remove their graveyard from the game, sure, but even then it's a more color-flexible Counterspell that cantrips.
Plus, it has synergy with Web of Inertia and its ilk.
The only hole I could see in it is a deck that could just build up another graveyard instantly, but even that is a step backwards for tempo and setup.
Regardless, this counter is going to be my pet sideboard card.
Cute, but I would rather use Relic of progenitus, or tormod's crypt as graveyard hate, and not give my opponent options. It's a usable option, but you are better off with normal counters and boarding in crypt or relic.
1) early game they might let the counter slide, and just refill their yard.
2) there are MANY options in reanimator decks that it can't target, but crypt and relic will handle beautifully.
Who's saying you can't use them together? You could make a pretty cool casual no-Stasis Stasis deck with it, Relic of Progenitus, Web of Inertia, Winter Orb, Daze, Gush, and Thwart. The deck becomes mono-U reanimator bane that can function perfectly well outside of reanimator match-ups.
If you needed to counter it in the first place, then it shouldn't matter if they let you counter it. You answered a threat that needed answering and drew a card.
And besides, isn't casual about having fun even if you're not using the most competitive deck?