If ya wanna get real freaky, pair up Web + Relic + Mists of Stagnation for mass lockdown. What how do you win? With the only * blue vigilant creature around - Serra Sphinx!
* - "Only" used for comedic value. There are others.
You might have to build around the Mists a bit more too, it's a little wonky.
You should run 24 lands, and not four Ruins, they're legendary, three at most.
Given all the Top effects, I'd consider to run four fetch lands or a cheap replacement.
Top also doesn't need to be a four-off. Mybe two, considering that you have four Mages and Ruins.
I'd also run less than eight bounce spells for some actual card draw, not just quality.
btw, this still is a MUC list.
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We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
What about Serendib Efreet ?
I've always wondered why such a potentially good card is considered as meh.
Isn't it easy to play while you keep mana up for counters ?
Serendib is a very good _aggro_ card, not a control card. In control, you generally have big and tough creatures as finishers, or creatures with nifty abilities (draw, bounce, controls creatures, doesn't die when you explode a nevinyrall's disk, that sort of thing). The lower the cost the better, but they have to be big and tough/useful. It has to be big enough so that when you play it, you're opponent is thinking "this will kill me" rather than "this might race me."
Serendib is big for its cost, but not big enough, and it has no special ability. Also, because it causes damage to you, for a control deck (which, by definition, is weak against aggro) this is unacceptable. The 1 damage is fine for an aggro deck, since likely you'll be swinging in and doing more damage, but not fine for control decks which tend to be punching bags and losing life until they establish board position.
It passed my mind, but I didn't include it in the primer section of speed-bumps for the reason explained, the damage. Sure, if you block with it, you'll prevent more than 1 damage and probably munch some creeps, yet you take damage and there are creatures that do the same without damage (think Plumeveil).
To make any 'agro' sense along JwarJwar, you'd need to connect twice with it before the Sphinx swings. From my experience speed-bumps are busy with blocking and eating the removal that the wincons can't.
I mean, if you have them, play them. You'll score points for style. I still think there are better options for MUC.
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Yeah I understand that, but can't it be possible to play a sort of Aggro-Control with it ?
It's a 3/4 flyer, it should easily inflict damages, especially if you can counter the removals.
.
Yes, you can, and it is the basis of faerie stompy, as well as various fish and merfolk decks. Faerie stompy is a good deck, although much too expensive for me personally.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I've decided to go the (almost) creatureless route, and use Jace as my primary Wincon, though in long, drawn out games I've sometimes been able to use Factory tokens to get there. It's very stable, and it's pretty much an "ideal" list for me in my group.
I've decided to go the (almost) creatureless route, and use Jace as my primary Wincon, though in long, drawn out games I've sometimes been able to use Factory tokens to get there. It's very stable, and it's pretty much an "ideal" list for me in my group.
I really like the decklist. Urza's Factory has always been one of my favorite lands in the game. Your countermagic setup looks really good.
I really like the decklist. Urza's Factory has always been one of my favorite lands in the game. Your countermagic setup looks really good.
Thanks for the compliment. I'm at the point where I feel like i'm at just about as optimal of a setup as I can get it, though i'm still working on the draw suite. Ideally, i'd like to find a way to add another draw spell and/or another 2cc counter, but I don't realistically see how I can do this without cutting something vital/superior.
I would like some input on M11 cards before I update the OP. Here are the cards that I'd like to add:
Jace's Ingenuity - While no FoF, it does the same job, and that rather well for a modern blue card. If you want FoF in your list, but can't get any, try these. Preordain - I don't know wether I want to add it to the OP. I like it better than Ponder and that's already added, but wether it's better than Ponder or not is discussed and Ponder isn't the best option on itself. What do you think? Scroll Thief - Ophidian is in the OP and this is the new version that also deals damage. I'd like to add it instead of Ophidian and mention that just in Thief's description.
Mana Leak's reprint should make it an easily to get option for new players.
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We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
I would like some input on M11 cards before I update the OP. Here are the cards that I'd like to add:
Jace's Ingenuity - While no FoF, it does the same job, and that rather well for a modern blue card. If you want FoF in your list, but can't get any, try these. Preordain - I don't know wether I want to add it to the OP. I like it better than Ponder and that's already added, but wether it's better than Ponder or not is discussed and Ponder isn't the best option on itself. What do you think? Scroll Thief - Ophidian is in the OP and this is the new version that also deals damage. I'd like to add it instead of Ophidian and mention that just in Thief's description.
Mana Leak's reprint should make it an easily to get option for new players.
I like Ingenuity. It's more valuable to us then, say, Tidings due to instant speed, and I think you're right on with your comparison to it being a budget FoF. I'd add it.
Preordain should go in the Brainstorm/Ponder bin. If these are included,it seems silly not to mention this one as well.
Thief is a strictly better Ophidian, so again, I don't see a reason not to add it. If you do, though, i'd consider adding AEther Adept as well, since it's a functional reprint of Man-O'-War. This is mono blue, so the difference in casting cost is pretty well null and voided.
Other cards i'd consider adding:
Frost Titan - I've been playtesting with him, and he's a decent finisher. Depending on how you're deck's set up, it can be a house. It doesn't have shroud, but it has..... semi shroud, and the additional 2 needed to target it makes cards like Mana Leak and friends even better. Dropping it after you wipe the board with a disk is a great way to just lock out the game completely.
Redirect - probably a good idea to add this as a sideboard option, as it can be awesome in certain matchup. Note that i'm not comparing it to Counterspell, but in certain cases, this might actually be better, most worth mentioning when countering big x-damage spells, or kill spells aimed at whatever you have on the board. Discard and draw spells as well.
Water Servant - dirt cheap pumpable win? I dunno, if you're on a super tight budget, I could see this guy filling in your Morphling role, but if you're on that steep of a budget you're probably not going to be able to afford the support for the rest of the deck.
Yeah, Scroll thief is actually pretty good, I'd definitely would play with some especially since I haven't seen ophidian for years in real life. I usually play with thieving magpie since I like to deal damage and draw cards every turn. Also, wizards reprinting mana leak is just awesome.
I’m new and I want to build a mono blue control deck for casual play. I’ve read a good amount of this thread and looked at a few deck lists. Here is what I have come up with:
My budget is about $40. I’m not sure if I have enough draw spells. I can afford 4x Fact or Fiction if I replace 4x Daze with 4x Force Spike. I’m also considering the new Jace’s Ingenuity.
Man'o'War isn't in the OP. It's a good creature no doubt, but in MUC it's been underperforming for me even before the recent powercreep.
Semi-shroud on Frost Titan would be good enough if removal wasn't dirt cheap to begin with. Not primer material, same for Water Servant, that is a great option if your budget is really low.
@ chainsawromeo's list: You can't cut Disk or Jace to add more draw/counters, neither land. I am no fan of Think Twice. It is the weakest card in your list and if you need more draw, I'd consider replacing it with better draw, what would mean filling up the others' playsets - not that I think you'd need that with each three Memories, FoF and four JtMS. So my suggestion would be to either cut them for the 2cmc counter of your choice.
@ philipneri's list: Looks good. Seven bounce spells are a tad too many. I'd cut two or three for speed bumps. I second Ingenuity over Knowledge for the moment and get the FoFs over a longer time if you want to sink money into the deck. Your lands could also be tweaked a bit. Four non-basics of your choice, f.e. Halimar Depths.
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We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
I’m new and I want to build a mono blue control deck for casual play. I’ve read a good amount of this thread and looked at a few deck lists. Here is what I have come up with:
My budget is about $40. I’m not sure if I have enough draw spells. I can afford 4x Fact or Fiction if I replace 4x Daze with 4x Force Spike. I’m also considering the new Jace’s Ingenuity.
I messed around with 4 brainstorm and 4 accumulated knowledge before in control and it works. But yeah if you want more draw spells Jace's Ingenuity does seem pretty decent, especially, since it's an instant as opposed to a sorcery. Overall, your list looks good because it seems pretty flexible at dealing with alot of decks in casual.
Regarding speed bumps, would 3x Plumeveil work well in my deck? I like everything about that card. The casting cost is perfect; I don’t have any 3-drops in my deck. And defense against flying is a must amongst my friends. However, coldfire on page 17 of this thread does not recommend running Plumeveil and Sphinx of Jwar Isle in the same deck. Another creature I am considering is 3x Mulldrifter. That’s a popular, inexpensive and flexible card.
Regarding land, will 22 be enough (18x Island, 4x Halimar Depths)? Or should I bump it up to 23?
Regarding Jace’s Ingenuity, should that be a 4-of or a 3-of? My gut says 3 because I don’t want it in my opening hand, but everyone else plays 4x Fact or Fiction so I guess I should play 4x Ingenuity.
Also, what is everyone’s thoughts regarding Dismiss vs Rewind? I went with two of each because I don’t know which one is better or which one I will like more.
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Now Playing Modern RUBW Affinity BGR Midrange UWR Control RG Titan Shift RW Burn GW Bogles G Tron
Regarding speed bumps, would 3x Plumeveil work well in my deck? I like everything about that card. The casting cost is perfect; I don’t have any 3-drops in my deck. And defense against flying is a must amongst my friends. However, coldfire on page 17 of this thread does not recommend running Plumeveil and Sphinx of Jwar Isle in the same deck. Another creature I am considering is 3x Mulldrifter. That’s a popular, inexpensive and flexible card.
Regarding land, will 22 be enough (18x Island, 4x Halimar Depths)? Or should I bump it up to 23?
Regarding Jace’s Ingenuity, should that be a 4-of or a 3-of? My gut says 3 because I don’t want it in my opening hand, but everyone else plays 4x Fact or Fiction so I guess I should play 4x Ingenuity.
Also, what is everyone’s thoughts regarding Dismiss vs Rewind? I went with two of each because I don’t know which one is better or which one I will like more.
Coldfire's point is true for most speedbumps, Plumeveil however has flash and enough power to kill what it blocks. Plumeveil is less a creature than a removal spell. When it eats a creature, it's basically done its job. If it consumes more cards and mana from an opponent, what is very likely, the better for you.
When your only other card drawing spell is Brainstorm, that nets no extra card, then I'd go with four Ingenuity. You could also try three and an Ancestral Vision.
If you think you need more land I'd consider cutting either a Sphinx or a Daze for an extra land.
When you have enough buisness at instant speed or lands with abilities beyond producing U you'll find Rewind to be more usefull. In a deck with less instants Dismiss is probably the better choice. As both don't cost much, I'd stick to the 2:2 split for the start, and predict that if you change the numbers it will be in favour of Rewind.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
Regarding speed bumps, would 3x Plumeveil work well in my deck? I like everything about that card. The casting cost is perfect; I don’t have any 3-drops in my deck. And defense against flying is a must amongst my friends. However, coldfire on page 17 of this thread does not recommend running Plumeveil and Sphinx of Jwar Isle in the same deck. Another creature I am considering is 3x Mulldrifter. That’s a popular, inexpensive and flexible card.
Regarding land, will 22 be enough (18x Island, 4x Halimar Depths)? Or should I bump it up to 23?
Regarding Jace’s Ingenuity, should that be a 4-of or a 3-of? My gut says 3 because I don’t want it in my opening hand, but everyone else plays 4x Fact or Fiction so I guess I should play 4x Ingenuity.
Also, what is everyone’s thoughts regarding Dismiss vs Rewind? I went with two of each because I don’t know which one is better or which one I will like more.
I am a fan of plumeveil and I don't think there is anything wrong with it if your playing against creature decks. Although, yeah I agree Sphinx of Jwar Isle should probably be a 4-of. It's such an huge threat in the late game.
I've played with mulldrifter for awhile myself and I find it quite good in casual. I mean a win condition or a chump blocker that can also draw you cards seems good to me.
As for Lands, I usually play 24 but 23 seems fine.
As for Jace Inguinity, sure you can play 3-4, it seems like a good replacement for Fact or fiction, especially, if you don't have any.
As for rewind vs dismiss, I'd run rewind because untapping your lands to counter or cast draw spells at the end of your opponent's turn is great. With that said, Jace Inguinity with rewind seems quite awesome together.
Do i have to many fetches?
I have them in there for the brain storms and Jace 2.0.
I also thought that the Hunts could work with 7 brain storms (4 brains, 3 jaces.) What do you guys think?
Here’s my revised list. I switched out Mana Leak for Rune Snag. And I decided to just go ahead and splurge for 4x Ancestral Vision and 4x Fact or Fiction. Increasing my budget from $40 to $65 isn’t really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I also went with 4x Rewind instead of splitting between Rewind and Dismiss because I think I will have enough card draw with Ancestral Vision and Fact or Fiction.
The only thing I'm worried about is my mana curve. It's pretty funky looking.
1-drops: 4
2-drops: 16
3-drops: 3
4-drops: 11
5-drops: none
6-drops: 3
Here’s my revised list. I switched out Mana Leak for Rune Snag. And I decided to just go ahead and splurge for 4x Ancestral Vision and 4x Fact or Fiction. Increasing my budget from $40 to $65 isn’t really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I also went with 4x Rewind instead of splitting between Rewind and Dismiss because I think I will have enough card draw with Ancestral Vision and Fact or Fiction.
The only thing I'm worried about is my mana curve. It's pretty funky looking.
1-drops: 4
2-drops: 16
3-drops: 3
4-drops: 11
5-drops: none
6-drops: 3
Mana curve isn't as important to control decks as it is to aggro. While lower costing spells is still better, the old adage of lots of low cc, some mid cc, few high cc is most relevant if you're spending all your mana every turn, which isn't the case in control.
Anyway, the deck is pretty solid, but I'm not really to fond of daze in control decks. The problem with daze in a control deck is that it sets you back a turn. It is find in aggro-control, where you can tap out because you casted a creature, then use daze as a surprise counter, and even if yo lose a land drop you still will have your creature, but in control you cast daze... and basically that's it. You just lost a land drop. Daze is also useful in early turns. Control decks last a long time, so that means your opponent will likely be able to build mana in the meantime and just pay the 1.
Rewind isn't too hot as well. The thing with rewind is that it lets you untap lands you control after countering.... but then, wouldn't it just better to put in a cheaper counterspell in the first place? Rewind needs 4 mana to cast in the first place, which is already equivalent to 2 2cc counterspells, and unless you have games where your opponent consistently cast 3 spells in a row that you have to counter, 2 2cc spells is better than a 4cc spell+another counter. The only time I see rewing being useful is if your opponent casts something, you cast rewind, then your opponent attacks and then you cast plumeveil. If that happens often enough you can keep the rewind... but personally I'd still rather have a 2cc spell.
For countermagic, there's remand and mana leak. With this much draw, you can consistenly play a land every turn, so even powersink is playable. Depending on your meta, stifle and spellsnare might prove useful, Stifle is godlike in meta where people play lots of fetchlands and terramiorphic expanse -- it's almost like a timewalk played against the right opponents, but may come up short against other decks. Likewise, the majority of the best spells in the game are 2cc, so spell snare is pretty good most of the time (generally, the more competive your opponent's deck, the more useful spellsnare is). You can even make your widely spread mana curve work to your benefit -- consider using around 3 counterbalance, then drop 2 bounce spells for sensei's divining top.
A bit too much draw. I think the deck can do minus one or two of the fact or fiction or ancestral vision, although playtesting is the only way to be sure.
Definitely too much bounce, though. 8 bounce spells. I'd limit it to around 4. Especially since you have plumeveil, which is a creature control card, really, 8 bounce spells isn't needed.
For really severe tech, keep in mind that you have NO 1cc spells (ancestral vision is suspend 1). You can consider running chalice of the void maindeck if you still have space.
@ Mondu: Daze is good against opponents that tap out often. Of course you get set back a turn if using the alternate cost, but it's better to risk that than to lose life to their early drop that you can't deal with until turn 4 or 5.
Playing around Daze, sure, wait a turn to cast your 5cmc card.
Rewind needs buisness at instant speed to be worth it. Not only Plumeveil, but also FoF and whatever else you have to play at end of turn makes it a good option. And there are only so many 2cmc counters that are worth it in MUC and I don't think Remand is one of them.
@ AEthercraft: Only 20 lands? I'd cut Daze and Ponder for three lands and Capsize, if you really want to add it. Undo, uhm, no? It's a sorcery that taps the land you'd need to counter the recast targets. Command of Unsummoning & Whiplash Trapmaybe. Having played the Trap in a Standart MUC, I've to say it's a nice option, but bouncing stuff in the long run doesn't help you anyways. Do it like the Mythbusters: If something doesn't work, add explosives.
Against Elves you want to land a Propaganda as fast as possible and counter creatures that make a lot of dmg, like Lords or Timberwatch Elf, and then land a Disk or Stone. There isn't much else you can do, that doesn't involve Shackles. And against Elfball, hope you can get rid of the key pieces, or that they fizzle, like any other deck.
I wasn't sure if a MUC deck should have more then 60 cards.
Please help I want this deck to be able to compete one on one and multi and as of right now on my playtest cannot keep up one on one.
Thank you for the help
On a tight budget: Cut Owl for Calcite Snapper, and 3 Man-o'-war, 3 Clone, 2 Djinn of Wishes for a 4th Gomozoa, and four more counter spells (whatever you have, even Cancel :p) and three Into the Roils. If you can replace Forsee with Jace's Ingenuity, being able to cast it at the of an opponents turn is really important.
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Thanks Blutsau! Would Deprive be another good counter?
Mind if I asked if I wasn't on a budget what you would add to my deck?
Kay, so I'm not blutsau, but Ill answer you anyways.
Deprive is usually a bad counter, but I love it. You can use it to bounce halimar depths to dig and dig. Also, Familiar ruse could bounce CIPT creatures.
* - "Only" used for comedic value. There are others.
You might have to build around the Mists a bit more too, it's a little wonky.
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Given all the Top effects, I'd consider to run four fetch lands or a cheap replacement.
Top also doesn't need to be a four-off. Mybe two, considering that you have four Mages and Ruins.
I'd also run less than eight bounce spells for some actual card draw, not just quality.
btw, this still is a MUC list.
Serendib is a very good _aggro_ card, not a control card. In control, you generally have big and tough creatures as finishers, or creatures with nifty abilities (draw, bounce, controls creatures, doesn't die when you explode a nevinyrall's disk, that sort of thing). The lower the cost the better, but they have to be big and tough/useful. It has to be big enough so that when you play it, you're opponent is thinking "this will kill me" rather than "this might race me."
Serendib is big for its cost, but not big enough, and it has no special ability. Also, because it causes damage to you, for a control deck (which, by definition, is weak against aggro) this is unacceptable. The 1 damage is fine for an aggro deck, since likely you'll be swinging in and doing more damage, but not fine for control decks which tend to be punching bags and losing life until they establish board position.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
To make any 'agro' sense along JwarJwar, you'd need to connect twice with it before the Sphinx swings. From my experience speed-bumps are busy with blocking and eating the removal that the wincons can't.
I mean, if you have them, play them. You'll score points for style. I still think there are better options for MUC.
Yes, you can, and it is the basis of faerie stompy, as well as various fish and merfolk decks. Faerie stompy is a good deck, although much too expensive for me personally.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
19x Island
3x Tolaria West
2x Urza's Factory
2x Academy Ruins
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
3x Dissipate
4x Cryptic Command
3x Rewind
3x Think Twice
3x Ancestral Vision
3x Fact or Fiction
// Tech (07) //
3x Nevinyrral's Disk
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
I've decided to go the (almost) creatureless route, and use Jace as my primary Wincon, though in long, drawn out games I've sometimes been able to use Factory tokens to get there. It's very stable, and it's pretty much an "ideal" list for me in my group.
I really like the decklist. Urza's Factory has always been one of my favorite lands in the game. Your countermagic setup looks really good.
Thanks for the compliment. I'm at the point where I feel like i'm at just about as optimal of a setup as I can get it, though i'm still working on the draw suite. Ideally, i'd like to find a way to add another draw spell and/or another 2cc counter, but I don't realistically see how I can do this without cutting something vital/superior.
Jace's Ingenuity - While no FoF, it does the same job, and that rather well for a modern blue card. If you want FoF in your list, but can't get any, try these.
Preordain - I don't know wether I want to add it to the OP. I like it better than Ponder and that's already added, but wether it's better than Ponder or not is discussed and Ponder isn't the best option on itself. What do you think?
Scroll Thief - Ophidian is in the OP and this is the new version that also deals damage. I'd like to add it instead of Ophidian and mention that just in Thief's description.
Mana Leak's reprint should make it an easily to get option for new players.
I like Ingenuity. It's more valuable to us then, say, Tidings due to instant speed, and I think you're right on with your comparison to it being a budget FoF. I'd add it.
Preordain should go in the Brainstorm/Ponder bin. If these are included,it seems silly not to mention this one as well.
Thief is a strictly better Ophidian, so again, I don't see a reason not to add it. If you do, though, i'd consider adding AEther Adept as well, since it's a functional reprint of Man-O'-War. This is mono blue, so the difference in casting cost is pretty well null and voided.
Other cards i'd consider adding:
Frost Titan - I've been playtesting with him, and he's a decent finisher. Depending on how you're deck's set up, it can be a house. It doesn't have shroud, but it has..... semi shroud, and the additional 2 needed to target it makes cards like Mana Leak and friends even better. Dropping it after you wipe the board with a disk is a great way to just lock out the game completely.
Redirect - probably a good idea to add this as a sideboard option, as it can be awesome in certain matchup. Note that i'm not comparing it to Counterspell, but in certain cases, this might actually be better, most worth mentioning when countering big x-damage spells, or kill spells aimed at whatever you have on the board. Discard and draw spells as well.
Water Servant - dirt cheap pumpable win? I dunno, if you're on a super tight budget, I could see this guy filling in your Morphling role, but if you're on that steep of a budget you're probably not going to be able to afford the support for the rest of the deck.
22x Island
// Counters (16) //
4x Daze
4x Counterspell
4x Mana Leak
2x Dismiss
2x Rewind
4x Brainstorm
4x Accumulated Knowledge
// Board Control (10) //
3x Echoing Truth
4x Into the Roil
3x Nevinyrral’s Disk
4x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
My budget is about $40. I’m not sure if I have enough draw spells. I can afford 4x Fact or Fiction if I replace 4x Daze with 4x Force Spike. I’m also considering the new Jace’s Ingenuity.
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron
Semi-shroud on Frost Titan would be good enough if removal wasn't dirt cheap to begin with. Not primer material, same for Water Servant, that is a great option if your budget is really low.
@ chainsawromeo's list: You can't cut Disk or Jace to add more draw/counters, neither land. I am no fan of Think Twice. It is the weakest card in your list and if you need more draw, I'd consider replacing it with better draw, what would mean filling up the others' playsets - not that I think you'd need that with each three Memories, FoF and four JtMS. So my suggestion would be to either cut them for the 2cmc counter of your choice.
@ philipneri's list: Looks good. Seven bounce spells are a tad too many. I'd cut two or three for speed bumps. I second Ingenuity over Knowledge for the moment and get the FoFs over a longer time if you want to sink money into the deck. Your lands could also be tweaked a bit. Four non-basics of your choice, f.e. Halimar Depths.
I messed around with 4 brainstorm and 4 accumulated knowledge before in control and it works. But yeah if you want more draw spells Jace's Ingenuity does seem pretty decent, especially, since it's an instant as opposed to a sorcery. Overall, your list looks good because it seems pretty flexible at dealing with alot of decks in casual.
12 islands
2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Mishra's Factory
No! 16
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Rune Snag
4 Cryptic Command
4 Brainstorm
4 Treasure Hunt
3 Jace 2.0
oops, Did i do that? 10
4 Echoing Truth
3 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Wash Out
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Any Sugestions?
Thanks
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Regarding speed bumps, would 3x Plumeveil work well in my deck? I like everything about that card. The casting cost is perfect; I don’t have any 3-drops in my deck. And defense against flying is a must amongst my friends. However, coldfire on page 17 of this thread does not recommend running Plumeveil and Sphinx of Jwar Isle in the same deck. Another creature I am considering is 3x Mulldrifter. That’s a popular, inexpensive and flexible card.
Regarding land, will 22 be enough (18x Island, 4x Halimar Depths)? Or should I bump it up to 23?
Regarding Jace’s Ingenuity, should that be a 4-of or a 3-of? My gut says 3 because I don’t want it in my opening hand, but everyone else plays 4x Fact or Fiction so I guess I should play 4x Ingenuity.
Also, what is everyone’s thoughts regarding Dismiss vs Rewind? I went with two of each because I don’t know which one is better or which one I will like more.
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron
Treasure Hunt with only 20 lands is not optimal, less so when five of them are fetches. Else the list looks nice.
Coldfire's point is true for most speedbumps, Plumeveil however has flash and enough power to kill what it blocks. Plumeveil is less a creature than a removal spell. When it eats a creature, it's basically done its job. If it consumes more cards and mana from an opponent, what is very likely, the better for you.
When your only other card drawing spell is Brainstorm, that nets no extra card, then I'd go with four Ingenuity. You could also try three and an Ancestral Vision.
If you think you need more land I'd consider cutting either a Sphinx or a Daze for an extra land.
When you have enough buisness at instant speed or lands with abilities beyond producing U you'll find Rewind to be more usefull. In a deck with less instants Dismiss is probably the better choice. As both don't cost much, I'd stick to the 2:2 split for the start, and predict that if you change the numbers it will be in favour of Rewind.
I am a fan of plumeveil and I don't think there is anything wrong with it if your playing against creature decks. Although, yeah I agree Sphinx of Jwar Isle should probably be a 4-of. It's such an huge threat in the late game.
I've played with mulldrifter for awhile myself and I find it quite good in casual. I mean a win condition or a chump blocker that can also draw you cards seems good to me.
As for Lands, I usually play 24 but 23 seems fine.
As for Jace Inguinity, sure you can play 3-4, it seems like a good replacement for Fact or fiction, especially, if you don't have any.
As for rewind vs dismiss, I'd run rewind because untapping your lands to counter or cast draw spells at the end of your opponent's turn is great. With that said, Jace Inguinity with rewind seems quite awesome together.
I have them in there for the brain storms and Jace 2.0.
I also thought that the Hunts could work with 7 brain storms (4 brains, 3 jaces.) What do you guys think?
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19x Island
4x Halimar Depths
// Counters (16) //
4x Daze
4x Counterspell
4x Rune Snag
4x Rewind
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Fact or Fiction
// Board Control (7) //
4x Into the Roil
3x Nevinyrral’s Disk
// Creatures (6) //
3x Plumeveil
3x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4x Echoing Truth
Here’s my revised list. I switched out Mana Leak for Rune Snag. And I decided to just go ahead and splurge for 4x Ancestral Vision and 4x Fact or Fiction. Increasing my budget from $40 to $65 isn’t really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I also went with 4x Rewind instead of splitting between Rewind and Dismiss because I think I will have enough card draw with Ancestral Vision and Fact or Fiction.
The only thing I'm worried about is my mana curve. It's pretty funky looking.
1-drops: 4
2-drops: 16
3-drops: 3
4-drops: 11
5-drops: none
6-drops: 3
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron
Mana curve isn't as important to control decks as it is to aggro. While lower costing spells is still better, the old adage of lots of low cc, some mid cc, few high cc is most relevant if you're spending all your mana every turn, which isn't the case in control.
Anyway, the deck is pretty solid, but I'm not really to fond of daze in control decks. The problem with daze in a control deck is that it sets you back a turn. It is find in aggro-control, where you can tap out because you casted a creature, then use daze as a surprise counter, and even if yo lose a land drop you still will have your creature, but in control you cast daze... and basically that's it. You just lost a land drop. Daze is also useful in early turns. Control decks last a long time, so that means your opponent will likely be able to build mana in the meantime and just pay the 1.
Rewind isn't too hot as well. The thing with rewind is that it lets you untap lands you control after countering.... but then, wouldn't it just better to put in a cheaper counterspell in the first place? Rewind needs 4 mana to cast in the first place, which is already equivalent to 2 2cc counterspells, and unless you have games where your opponent consistently cast 3 spells in a row that you have to counter, 2 2cc spells is better than a 4cc spell+another counter. The only time I see rewing being useful is if your opponent casts something, you cast rewind, then your opponent attacks and then you cast plumeveil. If that happens often enough you can keep the rewind... but personally I'd still rather have a 2cc spell.
For countermagic, there's remand and mana leak. With this much draw, you can consistenly play a land every turn, so even powersink is playable. Depending on your meta, stifle and spellsnare might prove useful, Stifle is godlike in meta where people play lots of fetchlands and terramiorphic expanse -- it's almost like a timewalk played against the right opponents, but may come up short against other decks. Likewise, the majority of the best spells in the game are 2cc, so spell snare is pretty good most of the time (generally, the more competive your opponent's deck, the more useful spellsnare is). You can even make your widely spread mana curve work to your benefit -- consider using around 3 counterbalance, then drop 2 bounce spells for sensei's divining top.
A bit too much draw. I think the deck can do minus one or two of the fact or fiction or ancestral vision, although playtesting is the only way to be sure.
Definitely too much bounce, though. 8 bounce spells. I'd limit it to around 4. Especially since you have plumeveil, which is a creature control card, really, 8 bounce spells isn't needed.
For really severe tech, keep in mind that you have NO 1cc spells (ancestral vision is suspend 1). You can consider running chalice of the void maindeck if you still have space.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I don't have enough money for the best MUC cards. but I did my best. Here's my deck
3 Guard Gomazoa
3 Man-o'-war
3 Clone
2 Djinn of Wishes
1 Overbeing of Myth
1 Guile
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Deep-Sea Kraken
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
4 Foresee
3 Mind Control
19 Island
I wasn't sure if a MUC deck should have more then 60 cards.
Please help I want this deck to be able to compete one on one and multi and as of right now on my playtest cannot keep up one on one.
Thank you for the help
Playing around Daze, sure, wait a turn to cast your 5cmc card.
Rewind needs buisness at instant speed to be worth it. Not only Plumeveil, but also FoF and whatever else you have to play at end of turn makes it a good option. And there are only so many 2cmc counters that are worth it in MUC and I don't think Remand is one of them.
@ AEthercraft: Only 20 lands? I'd cut Daze and Ponder for three lands and Capsize, if you really want to add it.
Undo, uhm, no? It's a sorcery that taps the land you'd need to counter the recast targets. Command of Unsummoning & Whiplash Trap maybe. Having played the Trap in a Standart MUC, I've to say it's a nice option, but bouncing stuff in the long run doesn't help you anyways. Do it like the Mythbusters: If something doesn't work, add explosives.
Against Elves you want to land a Propaganda as fast as possible and counter creatures that make a lot of dmg, like Lords or Timberwatch Elf, and then land a Disk or Stone. There isn't much else you can do, that doesn't involve Shackles. And against Elfball, hope you can get rid of the key pieces, or that they fizzle, like any other deck.
On a tight budget: Cut Owl for Calcite Snapper, and 3 Man-o'-war, 3 Clone, 2 Djinn of Wishes for a 4th Gomozoa, and four more counter spells (whatever you have, even Cancel :p) and three Into the Roils. If you can replace Forsee with Jace's Ingenuity, being able to cast it at the of an opponents turn is really important.
Mind if I asked if I wasn't on a budget what you would add to my deck?
Kay, so I'm not blutsau, but Ill answer you anyways.
Deprive is usually a bad counter, but I love it. You can use it to bounce halimar depths to dig and dig. Also, Familiar ruse could bounce CIPT creatures.
um.
Counters I like, with no budget are:
Force of will No duh.
Mana drain No duh.
Rewind Is amazing.
Dismiss is too.
Rune snag because.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.