Old school MTG player here and first time posting. Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong section.
Have been making updates to my deck and wanted to get some input if that's cool. Note that I am NOT experienced with and would NOT like to play with modern decks (Jace things) since I play among my core group of friends with our baseline decks that we built over 10 years ago.
At the moment, the deck is sitting at 62 cards and would ideally like to cut 2 down to 60. Furthermore, there are a handful of cards that I mention below that were strongly considered for the deck that are worth checking out as well. Please note that in terms of budget, I've already purchased the expensive cards that I list and would preferably not to add more of them (e.g. Land Tax).
Your deck already contains two pieces of a 3-card life gain combo as well: Transcendence and a way to get rid of it with instant timing. The third piece would be a way to repeatedly pay life, like with Adanto Vanguard, Glorifier of Dusk, Hex Parasite, Moltensteel Dragon, etc. With all three pieces, you can pay life, then pay life again right away, gain life back once, respond to the other life gain trigger with paying more life, then paying more life, gain life back once, respond to the other life gain trigger, etc. This way you accumulate a lot of life gain triggers on the stack but stay below 20 life. When you are ready to let all those waiting triggers resolve for a bazillion life, do one last response by destroying/sacrificing Transcendence. Then let those triggers resolve and watch your life total skyrocket. I've built a deck around this whole idea myself, though mine is W/B. It uses Kami of Ancient Law, Felidar Cub, and other functionally identical cards to have lots of ways to remove Transcendence
Thanks for the comment. I don't know if I necessarily agree with the trigger stacking, but being able to control how much you'll be gaining is definitely important if I'm aiming to get rid of Transcendence.
Here's what the deck looks like after a few edits:
I think, the Moltensteel Dragon I also mentioned above as example for a pay life card fits better than the Glorifier of Dusk. Not only can it come down a turn earlier (if you pay 4 life instead of two red), it has flying naturally and you can even return it from the graveyard with Open the Vaults. And if you do pull off the life gain combo, you can use it as a flying death machine by pumping your life into its power.
To explain a bit further on the life gain combo
1) you activate the ability to pay life. You lost life, so Transcendence triggers.
2) You respond by paying life for the activated ability again. This triggers Transcendence again.
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence
pay life ability
Transcendence
pay life ability
BOTTOM
3) You let the top Transcendence trigger resolve and are now at the same life total as in the beginning.
You can now repeat this over and over in response to what is already on the stack. Each time, there is an additional Transcendence life gain trigger on the stack along with two more pay life abilities, which are largely irrelevant for this. All that is left to do is to remove Transcendence and let all the stuff on the stack resolve. Since Transcendence is gone, it can't trigger to make you lose when your life total goes above 19.
I'll try to explain it better with concrete numbers, in case it wasn't clear, because stack tricks aren't intuitive to all casual players.
Moltensteel Dragon + Transcendence + Faith Healer. You start at 10 life.
1) Pay 2 life (down to 8) to give the Dragon +1/+0. This ability goes on the stack. Because you lost life, Transcendence triggers to gain 2 life for each life lost (2x2=4). This goes on the stack too.
2) In response, pay 2 life (down to 6) to give the Dragon +1/+0. This ability goes on the stack. Because you lost life, Transcendence triggers to gain 2 life for each life lost (2x2=4). This goes on the stack too.
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
3) Let the top 2 things resolve only. You gain 4 life back to 10. Moltensteel gains +1/+0 (5/4).
You're back at 10 life and the stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
4) Repeat steps 1 and 2. You'll go down to 6 life again. You'll put 2 more Transcendence triggers and 2 more Dragon activations on the stack.
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
5) Let the top 2 things resolve only. You gain 4 life back to 10. Moltensteel gains +1/+0 (6/4).
You're back at 10 life and the stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
Keep repeating...
Basically each iteration you're going down to 6 and back up to 10 (no net change in life), but each time the Dragon gets bigger and the stack gets bigger (with a lot of "gain 4 life" triggers). You can repeat until you have as many of these on the stack as you want, even thousands!
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
...
[repeat]
...
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
Normally you would lose the game to Transcendence once the stack resolves and you gain all that life, but you have a sacrifice outlet to get rid of Transcendence! So what you do is sacrifice Transcendence to Faith Healer in response. Then you let the whole stack resolve. By the time you gain all that life, Transcendence will not be on the battlefield so you won't lose the game for going over 20 life! You can do this trick to gain thousands of life and make a very large Moltensteel Dragon to swing to victory!
However, you may have a hard time explaining the loop to other players at the kitchen table... and infinite combos with the stack aren't "fun" for many players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Old school MTG player here and first time posting. Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong section.
Have been making updates to my deck and wanted to get some input if that's cool. Note that I am NOT experienced with and would NOT like to play with modern decks (Jace things) since I play among my core group of friends with our baseline decks that we built over 10 years ago.
At the moment, the deck is sitting at 62 cards and would ideally like to cut 2 down to 60. Furthermore, there are a handful of cards that I mention below that were strongly considered for the deck that are worth checking out as well. Please note that in terms of budget, I've already purchased the expensive cards that I list and would preferably not to add more of them (e.g. Land Tax).
The idea behind the deck is that I can get the Transcendence/Sulfuric Vortex out quickly with the help of Lost Auramancers and Enlightened Tutor while protecting them with cards like Fountain Watch and being able to bring them out of the graveyard using Auramancer and Open the Vaults. Should the combo not pan out, I can always climb back up to near 20 health using Transcendence before sacrificing the enchantment to gain an additional 6 life with Faith Healer. There's also a second combo in this deck with Sulfuric Vortex, Oblivion Ring, and Worldfire.
ANY help is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Here's the deck:
1 Tethered Griffin
2 Fountain Watch
2 Auramancer
4 Lost Auramancers
2 Avatar of Hope
1 Land Tax
1 Ivory Mask
1 Karmic Justice
3 Transcendence
4 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Oblivion Ring
8 Plains
1 Karoo
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Jade Monolith
2 Disenchant
2 Righteousness
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Incinerate
1 Tithe
2 Seething Song
2 Brimstone Volley
1 Open the Vaults
1 Arc Trail
1 Worldfire
Other owned cards I strongly considered:
Gossamer Chains
Sigil of the Empty Throne
Sphere of Safety
Journey to Nowhere
Holy Day
Mana Tithe
Rebuff The Wicked
Faith's Shield
Near-Death Experience
Soul Conduit
Manabarbs
Urza's Rage
Humble
False Prophet
Purify
Akroma's Vengeance
Wild Research
Illicit Auction
Junktroller
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Here's what the deck looks like after a few edits:
2 Fountain Watch
1 Auramancer
4 Lost Auramancers
1 Avatar of Hope
2 Glorifier of Dusk
1 Ivory Mask
1 Karmic Justice
3 Transcendence
4 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Land Tax
6 Plains
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Nomad Outpost
1 Jade Monolith
1 Phyrexian Processor
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Righteousness
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tithe
2 Disenchant
1 Mana Tithe
1 Rebuff the Wicked
2 Faith's Shield
1 Open the Vaults
1 Worldfire
To explain a bit further on the life gain combo
1) you activate the ability to pay life. You lost life, so Transcendence triggers.
2) You respond by paying life for the activated ability again. This triggers Transcendence again.
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence
pay life ability
Transcendence
pay life ability
BOTTOM
3) You let the top Transcendence trigger resolve and are now at the same life total as in the beginning.
You can now repeat this over and over in response to what is already on the stack. Each time, there is an additional Transcendence life gain trigger on the stack along with two more pay life abilities, which are largely irrelevant for this. All that is left to do is to remove Transcendence and let all the stuff on the stack resolve. Since Transcendence is gone, it can't trigger to make you lose when your life total goes above 19.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
I'll try to explain it better with concrete numbers, in case it wasn't clear, because stack tricks aren't intuitive to all casual players.
Moltensteel Dragon + Transcendence + Faith Healer. You start at 10 life.
1) Pay 2 life (down to 8) to give the Dragon +1/+0. This ability goes on the stack. Because you lost life, Transcendence triggers to gain 2 life for each life lost (2x2=4). This goes on the stack too.
2) In response, pay 2 life (down to 6) to give the Dragon +1/+0. This ability goes on the stack. Because you lost life, Transcendence triggers to gain 2 life for each life lost (2x2=4). This goes on the stack too.
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
3) Let the top 2 things resolve only. You gain 4 life back to 10. Moltensteel gains +1/+0 (5/4).
You're back at 10 life and the stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
4) Repeat steps 1 and 2. You'll go down to 6 life again. You'll put 2 more Transcendence triggers and 2 more Dragon activations on the stack.
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
5) Let the top 2 things resolve only. You gain 4 life back to 10. Moltensteel gains +1/+0 (6/4).
You're back at 10 life and the stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
Keep repeating...
Basically each iteration you're going down to 6 and back up to 10 (no net change in life), but each time the Dragon gets bigger and the stack gets bigger (with a lot of "gain 4 life" triggers). You can repeat until you have as many of these on the stack as you want, even thousands!
The stack now looks like this:
TOP
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
...
[repeat]
...
Transcendence trigger: gain 4 life
Moltensteel Dragon activated ability: gain +1/+0
BOTTOM
Normally you would lose the game to Transcendence once the stack resolves and you gain all that life, but you have a sacrifice outlet to get rid of Transcendence! So what you do is sacrifice Transcendence to Faith Healer in response. Then you let the whole stack resolve. By the time you gain all that life, Transcendence will not be on the battlefield so you won't lose the game for going over 20 life! You can do this trick to gain thousands of life and make a very large Moltensteel Dragon to swing to victory!
However, you may have a hard time explaining the loop to other players at the kitchen table... and infinite combos with the stack aren't "fun" for many players.