-----------
EDITS:
+4 Elvish Vanguard
-4 Wren's Run Vanquisher (maybe more versatile but less synergy)
+1 Lys Alana Huntmaster
-1 Caller of the Claw (tutoring it at sorcery speed is pretty bad)
---------------
Any card suggestions?
There are some nice synergies:
-Hardened Scales basically doubles every +1/+1 counter effect for 1 mana (Joraga, Bramblewood, Oran, Gavony, Ivy Lane)
-all extra +1/+1 counters put on Joraga pump your whole team
-Bramblewood puts a free counter on most of your guys (including Joraga, for an extra lord pump)
-Ivy Lane is a 4cc Paragon, however you can choose to put all the counters on a Joraga just to make everything crazy big just by making tokens
-Garruk can untap Oran-Riefs to add extra counters or Nykthos to make more mana
-white splash for both Gavony Township and 2/2 Sunblade Elf
Hmm yeah Lys Alana seems nice, even if expensive. Triggers a lot of stuff. I should cram some in.
I'd want to keep at least 1 Caller. This deck is incredibly vulnerable to Wrath effects and combat tricks. The idea was to be able to at least GSZ into Caller of the Claw post-combat (i.e. after your attack is thwarted and your guys are mostly killed), then activate Oran-Rief. That leaves you with a bunch of 3/3 beast tokens so you aren't totally behind. Then again, Caller is pretty weak if I can only find it on my turn. Maybe those Zeniths should actually be Chord of Calling... That also makes Reclamation Sage (instant speed disenchant while lands tapped out) more useful.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Elvish Vanguard seems great! Not a Warrior, not like it needs Paragon to get counters on it.
How do I get Riftstone Portal in my graveyard? That seems much worse than Verdant Catacombs (which is a functional equivalent to Windswept Heath in this list). Krosan Verge is great in GW ramp decks, but do I really want it in a deck that tops off the curve at 4cc?
Elvish Vanguard seems great! Not a Warrior, not like it needs Paragon to get counters on it.
How do I get Riftstone Portal in my graveyard? That seems much worse than Verdant Catacombs (which is a functional equivalent to Windswept Heath in this list). Krosan Verge is great in GW ramp decks, but do I really want it in a deck that tops off the curve at 4cc?
according to various sources, the Vangaurd is a Warrior. it was just printed before Mirrodin reset the creature type system to a "Race/Class" system. By those new stipulations, even Eladamri, Lord of Leaves counts as an "Elf Warrior"
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Thanks for the many suggestions! I added Vanguards to the OP list. Card looks great!
The part I'm confused about is why should I bother running any of those cards that don't synergize with the deck just to get a Riftstone Portal in the graveyard instead of just running Verdant Catacombs into Savannah? I mean yes it's possible to completely re-engineer the deck to enable Riftstone Portal (cutting cards from the +1/+1 beatdown plan to run discard outlets), but could you please explain what that adds to the deck and why it would be better? Is there something I'm missing? I don't get it. I'm more interested in the "why" than the "how". I think maybe a brief explanation behind your suggestions would help a lot. Thanks.
Arbor Elf untaps Savannah so it can produce either green or white mana. I think that makes it slightly better than a Llanowar Elves sometimes.
I thought about running Priest/Archduid, but I feel that leads to a different deck. So far there isn't enough upside to all that mana. I'd probably have to run more Ezuris or GSZ into Regal Forces and Craterhoof Behemoth. I feel that would just result in a radically different deck, one that doesn't work as well with Hardened Scales, though those cards are very good.
Thanks for the many suggestions! I added Vanguards to the OP list. Card looks great!
The part I'm confused about is why should I bother running any of those cards that don't synergize with the deck just to get a Riftstone Portal in the graveyard instead of just running Verdant Catacombs into Savannah? I mean yes it's possible to completely re-engineer the deck to enable Riftstone Portal (cutting cards from the +1/+1 beatdown plan to run discard outlets), but could you please explain what that adds to the deck and why it would be better? Is there something I'm missing? I don't get it. I'm more interested in the "why" than the "how". I think maybe a brief explanation behind your suggestions would help a lot. Thanks.
i'm a casual budget-minded player, I'd honestly never play cards that have a net value over $10 in any of my casual decks... Savannah and the fetches are easily $50+ cards.
You are also running seven fetches with 8 possible targets. The fetches cannot produce mana, so late game when potentially have all that's fetchable- it's a deadplay. The Portal and Verge can still produce mana- the Verge can also fetch the Savannah and another Forest.
I'd drop the Vast-Woods as it's largely conditional, and make the land base more like-
Llanowar Reborn can prop cards for a Paragon boost, or even give the Warcaller a free counter.
I would still consider Nissa's Chosen- a two drop that can revive itself isn't bad, especially early game waiting for the paragon to drop.
also, Rhys the Redeemed- a cheap Elf Warrior that not only spits our more Elf Warrior tokens, but can double the number of elf Warrior tokens.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Ah, budget, OK. I wasn't saying you were "wrong". I just wanted to know your reasons. I thought you were claiming that Riftstone Portal or Krosan Verge would lead to an overall stronger manabase, which I didn't understand for a low-curve aggressive Elf deck that needs untapped green sources early. If it's just "there are budget options available", that's a different point altogether.
Personally, the budget is not a concern for me; I swap duals and fetches around between decks pretty freely, so the cost to me is $0. But thanks for sharing your point. If I was concerned about budget, I'd probably just run some Sunpetal Grove and other cheap GW duals (cutting Sunblade Elf so "plains" doesn't matter). Seems easier. I do love cards like Riftstone Portal and Krosan Verge and Civic Wayfinder, but usually in multiplayer decks that want to play 5-7 drops. IMO they seem too slow for an aggressive 20-land deck that curves 1-4, unless there is something I am missing.
Nissa's Chosen could be good. I think I'd only run it with Nissa Revane. Otherwise Wren's Run Vanquisher just seems like a better 2-drop (Chosen does "revive" but the chance of naturally drawing her again without the planeswalker seems pretty rare).
I don't really see the advantage of Llanowar Reborn. Maybe I am missing something. Both lands enter tapped, tap for green mana, and can only put a counter on the creature the turn it enters the battlefield. Vastwood's only drawback is that you can't use it for mana that turn (not sure if that is a concern with my low curve). However, it has several advantages:
1) can add counters to more than one creature per turn (esp when making tokens)
2) can be used on multiple turns (Graft is a 1-time thing)
3) can be untapped by Garruk to use a 2nd time that turn
4) can be used any time that turn, not just as the creature enters. This means you can potentially counter combat tricks/burn, boost token blockers made at instant speed, or bluff having more spells and then EOT add counters.
I am open-minded about changing deck slots, but just not convinced that getting to use Reborn for mana that turn makes it that much better than all these features of Vastwood. Seems like Vastwood would just add way more counters within minimal cost.
Rhys the Redeemed is pretty awesome. Thought about including it at first. She was one of my last cuts. I reasoned that I wouldn't run her for her 2G ability alone, since Imperious Perfect just does that better. To justify her, I'd have to be abusing her 4GG ability. The problem is, that ability requires a lot of tokens and a lot of mana. I figured that I wouldn't have the explosive mana or enough of a token theme to really get value out of Rhys, so I cut her near the end. I'd probably want Elvish Promenade in a deck before considering using Rhys, and I don't think this deck wants/needs Elvish Promenade either. Maybe for a different deck.
No harm, man. I have my own legacy elf deck. You're asking for recommendations, and I offer my picks. How you want to play is entirely up to you.
Personally, i'd still run the Township over the Vastwood. Possibly go two each?
I do not see the point in having four GSZ (aside from fetching the Nissa's Chosen ;)), drop a couple for Harmonize, Symbiotic Deployment (running a lot of tokens, yes?), Multani's Acolyte, or Elvish Visionary- you could use the draw power. Cloudstone Curio with the later two would prove hilarious.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
i run Elvish Promenade in my elf token deck with beastmaster ascension it gets scary quick with tokens paired with paragon, without the ascension just your paragon alone paired with promenade would crazy trigger your ivy lane and lys alana if you get some id say game won if no one board wipes you or fogs haha
I've built a very similar deck. Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator are warriors and are useful with the counter strategy. It would be ideal to add fetchlands. Like this, it would be easier to use the revolt effect.
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Arbor Elf
4 Sunblade Elf
4 Joraga Warcaller
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Elvish Vanguard
4 Imperious Perfect
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Ivy Lane Denizen
1 Lys Alana Huntmaster
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Hardened Scales
//Planeswalkers: 2
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
//Lands: 20
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Gavony Township
3 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savannah
4 Forest
-----------
EDITS:
+4 Elvish Vanguard
-4 Wren's Run Vanquisher (maybe more versatile but less synergy)
+1 Lys Alana Huntmaster
-1 Caller of the Claw (tutoring it at sorcery speed is pretty bad)
---------------
Any card suggestions?
There are some nice synergies:
-Hardened Scales basically doubles every +1/+1 counter effect for 1 mana (Joraga, Bramblewood, Oran, Gavony, Ivy Lane)
-all extra +1/+1 counters put on Joraga pump your whole team
-Bramblewood puts a free counter on most of your guys (including Joraga, for an extra lord pump)
-Ivy Lane is a 4cc Paragon, however you can choose to put all the counters on a Joraga just to make everything crazy big just by making tokens
-Garruk can untap Oran-Riefs to add extra counters or Nykthos to make more mana
-white splash for both Gavony Township and 2/2 Sunblade Elf
I'd want to keep at least 1 Caller. This deck is incredibly vulnerable to Wrath effects and combat tricks. The idea was to be able to at least GSZ into Caller of the Claw post-combat (i.e. after your attack is thwarted and your guys are mostly killed), then activate Oran-Rief. That leaves you with a bunch of 3/3 beast tokens so you aren't totally behind. Then again, Caller is pretty weak if I can only find it on my turn. Maybe those Zeniths should actually be Chord of Calling... That also makes Reclamation Sage (instant speed disenchant while lands tapped out) more useful.
I'd drop the Verdant Catacombs for something like Riftstone portal or Krosan Verge
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
How do I get Riftstone Portal in my graveyard? That seems much worse than Verdant Catacombs (which is a functional equivalent to Windswept Heath in this list). Krosan Verge is great in GW ramp decks, but do I really want it in a deck that tops off the curve at 4cc?
according to various sources, the Vangaurd is a Warrior. it was just printed before Mirrodin reset the creature type system to a "Race/Class" system. By those new stipulations, even Eladamri, Lord of Leaves counts as an "Elf Warrior"
Greenseeker or Llanowar Mentor? Edge of Autumn or Harrow also work
I'd drop the Arbor Elves... unless you're running Overgrowth and the ilk, just run more mana elves, or land-fetch elves like Civic Wayfinder, Yavimaya Granger, etc...
also, Heedless One, Elvish Warrior, Nissa's Chosen, Strive/Titania's Boon
Priest of Titania/Elvish Archdruid + Wirewood Lodge make for big Warcallers.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
The part I'm confused about is why should I bother running any of those cards that don't synergize with the deck just to get a Riftstone Portal in the graveyard instead of just running Verdant Catacombs into Savannah? I mean yes it's possible to completely re-engineer the deck to enable Riftstone Portal (cutting cards from the +1/+1 beatdown plan to run discard outlets), but could you please explain what that adds to the deck and why it would be better? Is there something I'm missing? I don't get it. I'm more interested in the "why" than the "how". I think maybe a brief explanation behind your suggestions would help a lot. Thanks.
Arbor Elf untaps Savannah so it can produce either green or white mana. I think that makes it slightly better than a Llanowar Elves sometimes.
I thought about running Priest/Archduid, but I feel that leads to a different deck. So far there isn't enough upside to all that mana. I'd probably have to run more Ezuris or GSZ into Regal Forces and Craterhoof Behemoth. I feel that would just result in a radically different deck, one that doesn't work as well with Hardened Scales, though those cards are very good.
i'm a casual budget-minded player, I'd honestly never play cards that have a net value over $10 in any of my casual decks... Savannah and the fetches are easily $50+ cards.
You are also running seven fetches with 8 possible targets. The fetches cannot produce mana, so late game when potentially have all that's fetchable- it's a deadplay. The Portal and Verge can still produce mana- the Verge can also fetch the Savannah and another Forest.
I'd drop the Vast-Woods as it's largely conditional, and make the land base more like-
4 Savannah
4 Llanowar Reborn
2 Windswept Heath
2 Krosan Verge
2 Gavonry Township
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Llanowar Reborn can prop cards for a Paragon boost, or even give the Warcaller a free counter.
I would still consider Nissa's Chosen- a two drop that can revive itself isn't bad, especially early game waiting for the paragon to drop.
also, Rhys the Redeemed- a cheap Elf Warrior that not only spits our more Elf Warrior tokens, but can double the number of elf Warrior tokens.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Personally, the budget is not a concern for me; I swap duals and fetches around between decks pretty freely, so the cost to me is $0. But thanks for sharing your point. If I was concerned about budget, I'd probably just run some Sunpetal Grove and other cheap GW duals (cutting Sunblade Elf so "plains" doesn't matter). Seems easier. I do love cards like Riftstone Portal and Krosan Verge and Civic Wayfinder, but usually in multiplayer decks that want to play 5-7 drops. IMO they seem too slow for an aggressive 20-land deck that curves 1-4, unless there is something I am missing.
Nissa's Chosen could be good. I think I'd only run it with Nissa Revane. Otherwise Wren's Run Vanquisher just seems like a better 2-drop (Chosen does "revive" but the chance of naturally drawing her again without the planeswalker seems pretty rare).
I don't really see the advantage of Llanowar Reborn. Maybe I am missing something. Both lands enter tapped, tap for green mana, and can only put a counter on the creature the turn it enters the battlefield. Vastwood's only drawback is that you can't use it for mana that turn (not sure if that is a concern with my low curve). However, it has several advantages:
1) can add counters to more than one creature per turn (esp when making tokens)
2) can be used on multiple turns (Graft is a 1-time thing)
3) can be untapped by Garruk to use a 2nd time that turn
4) can be used any time that turn, not just as the creature enters. This means you can potentially counter combat tricks/burn, boost token blockers made at instant speed, or bluff having more spells and then EOT add counters.
I am open-minded about changing deck slots, but just not convinced that getting to use Reborn for mana that turn makes it that much better than all these features of Vastwood. Seems like Vastwood would just add way more counters within minimal cost.
Rhys the Redeemed is pretty awesome. Thought about including it at first. She was one of my last cuts. I reasoned that I wouldn't run her for her 2G ability alone, since Imperious Perfect just does that better. To justify her, I'd have to be abusing her 4GG ability. The problem is, that ability requires a lot of tokens and a lot of mana. I figured that I wouldn't have the explosive mana or enough of a token theme to really get value out of Rhys, so I cut her near the end. I'd probably want Elvish Promenade in a deck before considering using Rhys, and I don't think this deck wants/needs Elvish Promenade either. Maybe for a different deck.
Personally, i'd still run the Township over the Vastwood. Possibly go two each?
I do not see the point in having four GSZ (aside from fetching the Nissa's Chosen ;)), drop a couple for Harmonize, Symbiotic Deployment (running a lot of tokens, yes?), Multani's Acolyte, or Elvish Visionary- you could use the draw power. Cloudstone Curio with the later two would prove hilarious.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.