I'm back for another round of casual deckbuilding, though this deck will be very rarely played by me due to the fact that I don't really like straight aggro. The secondary purpose is actually trying to budgetize this deck.
Yes, I believe that there's probably a ton of Infect decks around, but here's me trying a more janky take on it. To be more precise, emphasizing on pump spells (correct, good old players probably remember the days when we let a small creature go thru our opponents defenses and we drop a few pump spells and let it grow insanely huge and win XD).
Hopefully the players who try this deck would enjoy it's explosiveness and have great fun =)
How does this deck work?
It's a straight aggro deck focusing on dropping as many poison counters as possible on your opponent via having a single creature pushing through your opponent's defenses then dropping a huge amount of pump spells to put a huge amount of poison counters and win =) Very simple and straightforward.
Ok on to the current list (note that this is my take on KIDBUU's list) that I'm currently fooling around with on MWS (There's no SB here as it's metagame dependent):
I'm trying to build a budget list right now for real life play so I'll open to suggestions. (I'll update the primer once I get a better idea). Also, do suggest in anyway that this deck can be improved on.
dauthi embrace could be good since the creature will practically be unblockable.
I'm running myr already. =)
Giant Growth would be better than barkshell blessing here. Though what should I cut it for? With this many infect creatures, I'm not sure should I cut Tainted Strike and/or Wild Might.
Longbow was never considered due to high equip costs and my manabase. Plus it's rather slow.
Predator's Strike looks possible though a 1 of (compared to the rest of the pump spells). The rest seems meh.
Embrace has the same issue with longbow.
Oh right, do note that this deck is a solely 1v1 deck which intends to get 10 poison counters on my opponents as fast as possible.
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This should help people out who are addressing me in further posts: My name is Tenkai. It's not Tokobo. Thank you. =)
I feel like if all your creatures already have infect, then tainted strike might not be so great. I like virulent swipe better than tainted strike in this deck. ichor rats might be possible, its a free poison counter (although it might be slow) groundswell might be good then since its a lower CMC and prey's vengeance as well.
Hmm, the only 2 creatures that doesn't have infect here is Vector Asp (but he can self enable) and Virulent Silver (who has poisonous but is at times insufficient).
I did consider groundswell when building this deck but I don't get too many land drops to make it good.
Regarding spells that possess rebound, it looks interesting though more testing is required.
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This should help people out who are addressing me in further posts: My name is Tenkai. It's not Tokobo. Thank you. =)
Can you explain why Tainted Strike is here? Every creature can get infect by itself except Noble Hierarch, and to my knowledge Infect doesn't stack - I really can't think of a good reason why it would be in here.
Also, what about Bounty of the Hunt? It can trigger Livewire Lash 3 times, and give +3/+3...if a 1/1 goes unblocked, that's 10 poison counters there.
Can you explain why Tainted Strike is here? Every creature can get infect by itself except Noble Hierarch, and to my knowledge Infect doesn't stack - I really can't think of a good reason why it would be in here.
Also, what about Bounty of the Hunt? It can trigger Livewire Lash 3 times, and give +3/+3...if a 1/1 goes unblocked, that's 10 poison counters there.
Yup that's why I'm considering to drop it, the only 2 being virulent silver and Hierarch. It's mostly to pump silver or Hierarch if either one gets through though.
I tried bounty of the hunt but it was meh. The issue I see with Dark Triumph is that I don't have many creatures to sacrifice =(
Keep the suggestions coming =)
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Putrefax might be a good additon, hes on the lower end of budget and already has trample. drop a few vines of vastwood and you have got a 13/11 with trample to let loose.Add some buff and your swinging with just one big guy with trample, and if they block you can clear the board
Putrefax might be a good additon, hes on the lower end of budget and already has trample. drop a few vines of vastwood and you have got a 13/11 with trample to let loose.Add some buff and your swinging with just one big guy with trample, and if they block you can clear the board
I once tried putting 2 Putrefax MD but I wasn't able to cast him reliably =(
Vines are a metagame choice due to a insane amount of StP, PtE and burn-based removal around. (There are other janky removals but I have no issues with them.)
Replace those with Fetches, because getting a Swamp that also produces Green is pretty important with Rouse and stuff.
You have highlighted one of the main issues with the deck that needs working on. The Manabase. Those spots were initially shocks and basics but life loss was too much of an issue and I cut them for filterlands. Any ideas on how to fix the manabase?
some things to note one:
The mana base, you really need lands that have subtypes forest and swamp. If it doesn't have either of them, remove it from the deck. Second, your deck can't have lands that come into play tap, so Murmuring Bosk can't be used as a budget land, tried to use it myself, just terrible. As for not having shock lands, in all honesty, the damage is not a big deal. In SCG:Boston, I lost to two deck,s Show and tell, and Ant. While part of the reason I lost to show and tell was because I shocked myself down to 15 life, the other reason is my opponent had turn 2 Emerakul. Against other decks, I played against rock, merfolk, and survival, and those decks 2-4 life wont matter, you either out race them (or force them to trade their creatures for you pump) or they are over running you anyway. so you really want Overgrown tomb as a minimum, and while I was playing budget at the time with only one bayou, assuming I had the money, I would of played 4 bayou and 4 tomb. Catacomb is not needed per say, but it helps make sure you have your basic land types. It is possible to win off one overgrown tomb alone.
Turn 1 tomb, hierarch
Turn 2 two drop
turn 3, invigorate, route, combination = win
Urborg is the only card not needed in the deck, it can be replaced with a swamp. In all honesty, I really only had it in for kicks, just to have more cards on my deck list, but that being said, i did put thought, A) This deck wants to be wasteland. and having another non-basic gives them another target. as I said, you only need one land, so if they are slowing down their tempo to shut your lands off, the better, few decks can function off less lands, merfolk and goblins, and with merfolk, they need to trade 1-1 or they lose to poison and when merfolk can't tribal up, you win. Goblins is a little harder as they have more creatures and more cheaper creatures. While SB was not listed, E-plague is really a must for that match up. Going back to lands. B)Urborg allows you to use forests to pump multiple vector asp's. Assuming no budget
4 bayou
4 overgrown tomb
4 verdant catacom
2 forest
2 swamp
(need your path mana)
1 urborg
would be my land base for the above reasons. if you need to budget it, replace the duals with forests and swamps, but if you do, make sure you have a higher forest count, normally 2-1 as you have more green need than black.But none the less, 17 lands max I would play, you only need 1 to win, 2 to function, and 3 is optimal. but even off 2 lands, I've seen my share of wins
On to pump spells, Personally, wild might and putrafax should not have been in my deck list. putrafax is obvious, but for wild might, my idea was to have a +5/+5 pump spell, but it is too slow. and this is the problem with most pump spells, anything that costs 2, I believe is too much, it needs to cost 1 or free, which is why I ran the suite I did. (though I only ran 3 route, as I only had 3, would of played 4 if I did)
invigorate- only reason I played this deck (really, i was going through my collection one day, found this card and decided on poison)
route- weaker than invigorate, but again, it is a free spell
Vines of Vast Wood- this is a must play, as it saves you from path and swords, and any other removal, it also is a +4/+4 pump when needed (and the only 2 pump spell I would play) but unless it is do or die, NEVER go for the win if your opponenet has mana up by kicking this spell UNLESS it is in response to a kill spell. This should be obvious, but this card keeps this deck viable.
Rancor-needed to trample somehow, and as a added bonus, it is 1cc, so obvious choice.
Bounty of the hunt- I did not play this card, though I did at first, as free spells are nice. 2 things wrong with it though,
A)almost never had a green card to pitch with, or if I did, the green card was strictly better.
B)This deck has no card advantage, the deck needs to win in the first 4/5 turns or your chance of winning is very low, and card disadvantage does not help this. If you must go budget, I'd use it, but if you do, the creature base needs to be modified (such as the inclusion of blight mamba)[Though this is why putrafax was in the deck, it was green, and forgot to remove putrafax when I removed the bounty, that being said, it is also the reason cystbearer is in the deck, and that I have not regretted yet).
Tainted strike- ah the most controversial card in my deck. you can remove it if you like, but I will keep it in my deck, for 3 reasons
A)noble heirarch
B)Virlent sliver
C)Vector Asp
well duh, you must be saying, those are the 3 cards without infect, but that is exactly why, you are running 12 cards without infect, tainted strike is mandatory in my eyes, plus worse case it is a +1 pump. Now you must be saying, why play them when you have blight mamba and necropede as infect creatures I'm not running. well there is a reason I'm not running them. and reason #1 is cmc. All three cards I named are 1 drops, that that is HUGE in this deck. If you can be poison them starting turn 2, then you are on the way to victory.
Also while infect does not stack, poisonous 1 and infect stacks to make a wonderful 3 poison counters from virulent sliver on turn 2. Also why pay B to make vector asp gain infect, when you can pay B to give vector asp infect AND +1/+0. Obvious choice is obvious. Also, though this only happened once, it still happened, my opponent swung for lethal. I tainted strike his biggest creature, and swung back for the win. just food for though, a fog effect that is almost never used, it at least is an option when needed.
Livewire lash- Originally was going to jitte in this deck, lucky for you budget folks I didn't, and lucky for me I didn't as I've won a match off Lash as late game reach helps a lot.play with the card, it works
finally the creatures, I wont go into too much details as most should be obvious
but
ichorclaw myr and plague stinger are the best two-drops with infect hands down, 1 trades/kills ever creature (oh hello there 2/3 tarmogoyf) and stinger flies, I think that is enough.
cystbearer- The strongest play you can do with deck? turn 2 cystbearer, that being said, the worse thing you can do, no play until turn 3 cystbearer. There is a reason I only ran two, if I'm going budget, running 4 is fine but be advised, your only running 17 lands, so 3 mana is quite a lot, doable, but hard.
Birds of paradise/noble hierarch- noble was in for 2 reason, ramp and exalted, birds can only do 1 of those. Now I did say turn 2 cystbearer was my strongest play, want to know my strongest consistance play? Turn 1 1 drop, turn two hierarch, swing for at least 2 poison (normally more off a pump spell), do you know what you can't do with birds? exalted bonus. now I can't say birds is not a budget swamp for hierarch, but two things occur, if you don't swap, and just remove the hierarch, what do you replace? Land? While adding lands solves mana issues, it adds one problem that doesn't occur with my 17 land deck (well it happens, but VERY rarely) and that is mana flood, once you have 2/3 lands, you don't need more, adding lands adds to your dead draws, and in this deck 1 dead draw can be the difference between winning a losing. So then you decide to put the birds in. but then gameplay choices happen. Because it never happened with me, If given the choice between 1 drop infect or one drop hierarch, I always went turn 1 infect, knowing I could turn 2 +1/+1 pump. If i had to choose between turn 1 birds and turn 1 1-drop, I have no idea. yes turn 2 poison is good, but
turn 1 1 drop
turn 2 birds is quite bad
likewise
turn 1 birds
turn 2 2 drop 1 drop
while better
you aren't swinging until turn 3. given budget, it perfectly fine I suppose, but I do not support that. Birds can swap, but hierarch really fits his role perfectly
vector Asp, Virlent Sliver
As I said in tainted strike, 1 drop is so good, and while they aren't the best creatures, getting that one drop is very key. Also the fact vector asp doesn't have infect is actually a bonus. as againt ANT, you don't try racing with posion, you actually try to kill them with life, between Bob's and ad naseum, life total becomes the way to win (I would of beat the ANT deck if I mind break trapped the correct card, but hit the wrong card and lost because of it, but he would of lost to virlent with rancor on it the next turn otherwise) Sometimes you need to attack the 20, and not the 10, flexibility is huge, and hence my creature choice. I would not change it.
Now for blight mamba,Contagious Nim, ichor Rats,Necropede, every other infect creature with a cmc of 4+.
Well lets start with the easiest
cmc 4+-com'on people we are talking about legacy where 3 drops are expensive.
ichor rats- now maybe this would be a good card for late game reach, my issue it the BB cost in my heavy green deck. You need to play green for the pumps, and if your going budget, you don't have the duals to support heavy black.
Contagious nim- well it was him or cystbearer going in the deck, and as i said before I used to have bounty in the deck and cystbearer won. But that 3 toughness on cyst is so key. with all the pumps in the deck, the difference between 2 power and 3 power is minimal, as most pumps will be a +4/+4 and +2/+2 for a total of 6, or +4/+4 and +4/+4 for a total of 8, 8+2 is 10 and 6 + 3 is 9, with 2 you kill them anyway if you do, with 3 you don't kill them if you can't. so the power loss is not much, but what is really good? being able to trade for a 2/2 lord and living. cystbearer all the way for my 3 drop.
Now why I don't run pede or mamba, simple, I don't want to have my creatures blocked/or have them block. well if my creatures aren't blocking or being blocked, why do I need regen? path and swords gets through that. only bolt is the one that matters. so the advantage of my snake is that it regens? not much of a bonus compared to being a cheaper creature (vector asp, sliver), flying (stinger), or +2/+2 when blocked (only time I like when my opponent blocks), mamba is too weak.
same thing for pede, it effect only cares when it goes to the grave. Why is my creature going to the grave? so against pede gets the cut, also though, another reason (as if you needed another) its not green, so if you decide to go the bounty of the hunt route, you can't pitch it, so if you needed a sub for budget (though most creatures in this deck are 25 cents, so i don't see creatures being the issue) mamba would see play if I went to bounty of the hunt route for the mere fact it is green, but then I'd rather have more pump spells. That being said, you do need creatures as all pump spells you draw are dead cards without creatures, and as i said before, dead cards are the difference between a win and a loss with this deck.
Maybe I didn't give the best budget primer, and it might not be coherent as I wrote all of this in one go, and my brain likes to wonder off sometimes, if you want clarification, I can add to this later. Hopefully this was helpful
EDIT: eh maybe some of my reasons were wrong, as I just remembered this is the causal forum, and not the legacy forum, but most of the points are still valid, just not some things for cmc cost reasons as it is casual.
also for the sideboard, you left it out for metagame reasons, but overall, i made it to be quite diverse
Leyline and exterpaites for graveyard based decks
E-plagues for tribal decks (goblins and merfolk especially)
Mindbreak traps for combo
Duress for combo/control (these should of been thoughseizes, but alas, I was working under budget as well)
basic combo aggro and control match ups.
Granted I had more graveyard hate for survival, but even still I would not change my side board per say, as against control, you are quite fast, aggro your creatures are more efficient (in the sense yours only need to do 10, theirs need to do 20) and so your weakness are combo decks that storm, and combo decks that use the graveyard (lands, dredge, survival,etc).
Maybe meta game choices, but very few choices I'd make going into a blind tourny. If I knew it would be heavy combo or heavy aggro, then the sideboard would change, but in the void, that is defiantly the SB I would use
I think I could get the catacombs and maybe save up for hierarch (I wanted to get him for ages but any deck that has him has goyf so you get the idea).
As for the manabase I have to try out the heavier basics build though, I have Tomb of Yawgmoth though, might drop it in too. =D
As for Duress in the SB, I would say it's a fine choice though, most of the stuff we want to rip out of their hands (control/combo) are non-creature anyway.
Thanks again!
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Why do people suggest doubling season? It doesn't work with infect at all. It doesn't double the -1/-1 counters and it doesn't double the poison counters! Plus this deck whats to function with 3 lands at most.
Edit: sarnated
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I'm back for another round of casual deckbuilding, though this deck will be very rarely played by me due to the fact that I don't really like straight aggro. The secondary purpose is actually trying to budgetize this deck.
Yes, I believe that there's probably a ton of Infect decks around, but here's me trying a more janky take on it. To be more precise, emphasizing on pump spells (correct, good old players probably remember the days when we let a small creature go thru our opponents defenses and we drop a few pump spells and let it grow insanely huge and win XD).
Hopefully the players who try this deck would enjoy it's explosiveness and have great fun =)
KlDBUU is the one who inspired me with this deck idea and I'm looking to improve the deck =) [His article is here:http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/20466_Deck_Tech_Poison_with_Carl_Godon.html]
How does this deck work?
It's a straight aggro deck focusing on dropping as many poison counters as possible on your opponent via having a single creature pushing through your opponent's defenses then dropping a huge amount of pump spells to put a huge amount of poison counters and win =) Very simple and straightforward.
Ok on to the current list (note that this is my take on KIDBUU's list) that I'm currently fooling around with on MWS (There's no SB here as it's metagame dependent):
3 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Vector Asp
2 Cystbearer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Plague Stinger
4 Virulent Sliver
2 Rancor
2 Livewire Lash
4 Invigorate
4 Rouse
4 Tainted Strike
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Wild Might
I'm trying to build a budget list right now for real life play so I'll open to suggestions. (I'll update the primer once I get a better idea). Also, do suggest in anyway that this deck can be improved on.
The real expensive cards I can isolate now are:
Some issues this deck is facing:
Enjoy!
[/I]
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
ichorclaw myr might be good with rancor
What about virdian longbow being equipped to a creature then pumping that creature and pinging the enemy? Or is that too out of theme?
predator's strike
run wild
stampede
sylvan might
other cards that might fit the theme
dauthi embrace could be good since the creature will practically be unblockable.
I'm running myr already. =)
Giant Growth would be better than barkshell blessing here. Though what should I cut it for? With this many infect creatures, I'm not sure should I cut Tainted Strike and/or Wild Might.
Longbow was never considered due to high equip costs and my manabase. Plus it's rather slow.
Predator's Strike looks possible though a 1 of (compared to the rest of the pump spells). The rest seems meh.
Embrace has the same issue with longbow.
Oh right, do note that this deck is a solely 1v1 deck which intends to get 10 poison counters on my opponents as fast as possible.
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
ichor rats might be possible, its a free poison counter (although it might be slow)
groundswell might be good then since its a lower CMC and prey's vengeance as well.
I did consider groundswell when building this deck but I don't get too many land drops to make it good.
Regarding spells that possess rebound, it looks interesting though more testing is required.
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
Also, what about Bounty of the Hunt? It can trigger Livewire Lash 3 times, and give +3/+3...if a 1/1 goes unblocked, that's 10 poison counters there.
Dark Triumph might be notable as well.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
Yup that's why I'm considering to drop it, the only 2 being virulent silver and Hierarch. It's mostly to pump silver or Hierarch if either one gets through though.
I tried bounty of the hunt but it was meh. The issue I see with Dark Triumph is that I don't have many creatures to sacrifice =(
Keep the suggestions coming =)
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
:symw::symw::symw:Infinite Life:symw::symw::symw:
:symgu::symgu::symgu:Infinite Mana:symgu::symgu::symgu:
:symr::symr::symr:Burn, Baby Burn:symr::symr::symr:
:symg::symg::symg:Beastiality:symg::symg::symg:
:symu::symu::symu:Slippery Merfolk:symu::symu::symu:
:symb::symr::symw::symg::symu:Proxy Slivers:symu::symg::symw::symr::symb:
:symw::symu::symb::symg:Control Fungus:symg::symb::symu::symw:
:symgb::symgb::symgb:Ebola:symgb::symgb::symgb:
Replace those with Fetches, because getting a Swamp that also produces Green is pretty important with Rouse and stuff.
:symw::symw::symw:Infinite Life:symw::symw::symw:
:symgu::symgu::symgu:Infinite Mana:symgu::symgu::symgu:
:symr::symr::symr:Burn, Baby Burn:symr::symr::symr:
:symg::symg::symg:Beastiality:symg::symg::symg:
:symu::symu::symu:Slippery Merfolk:symu::symu::symu:
:symb::symr::symw::symg::symu:Proxy Slivers:symu::symg::symw::symr::symb:
:symw::symu::symb::symg:Control Fungus:symg::symb::symu::symw:
:symgb::symgb::symgb:Ebola:symgb::symgb::symgb:
I once tried putting 2 Putrefax MD but I wasn't able to cast him reliably =(
Vines are a metagame choice due to a insane amount of StP, PtE and burn-based removal around. (There are other janky removals but I have no issues with them.)
You have highlighted one of the main issues with the deck that needs working on. The Manabase. Those spots were initially shocks and basics but life loss was too much of an issue and I cut them for filterlands. Any ideas on how to fix the manabase?
EDIT: I don't think this is a good idea, but how about Golgari Rot Farm and Tainted Wood?
Doubling Season can't be cast with my current land base.
EDIT:
Would Birds of Paradise be budget for Hierarch?
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
dunno how fast is your deck but sylvan might runs cool too..
if it is in your $$, berserk do a omg job...
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The mana base, you really need lands that have subtypes forest and swamp. If it doesn't have either of them, remove it from the deck. Second, your deck can't have lands that come into play tap, so Murmuring Bosk can't be used as a budget land, tried to use it myself, just terrible. As for not having shock lands, in all honesty, the damage is not a big deal. In SCG:Boston, I lost to two deck,s Show and tell, and Ant. While part of the reason I lost to show and tell was because I shocked myself down to 15 life, the other reason is my opponent had turn 2 Emerakul. Against other decks, I played against rock, merfolk, and survival, and those decks 2-4 life wont matter, you either out race them (or force them to trade their creatures for you pump) or they are over running you anyway. so you really want Overgrown tomb as a minimum, and while I was playing budget at the time with only one bayou, assuming I had the money, I would of played 4 bayou and 4 tomb. Catacomb is not needed per say, but it helps make sure you have your basic land types. It is possible to win off one overgrown tomb alone.
Turn 1 tomb, hierarch
Turn 2 two drop
turn 3, invigorate, route, combination = win
Urborg is the only card not needed in the deck, it can be replaced with a swamp. In all honesty, I really only had it in for kicks, just to have more cards on my deck list, but that being said, i did put thought, A) This deck wants to be wasteland. and having another non-basic gives them another target. as I said, you only need one land, so if they are slowing down their tempo to shut your lands off, the better, few decks can function off less lands, merfolk and goblins, and with merfolk, they need to trade 1-1 or they lose to poison and when merfolk can't tribal up, you win. Goblins is a little harder as they have more creatures and more cheaper creatures. While SB was not listed, E-plague is really a must for that match up. Going back to lands. B)Urborg allows you to use forests to pump multiple vector asp's. Assuming no budget
4 bayou
4 overgrown tomb
4 verdant catacom
2 forest
2 swamp
(need your path mana)
1 urborg
would be my land base for the above reasons. if you need to budget it, replace the duals with forests and swamps, but if you do, make sure you have a higher forest count, normally 2-1 as you have more green need than black.But none the less, 17 lands max I would play, you only need 1 to win, 2 to function, and 3 is optimal. but even off 2 lands, I've seen my share of wins
On to pump spells, Personally, wild might and putrafax should not have been in my deck list. putrafax is obvious, but for wild might, my idea was to have a +5/+5 pump spell, but it is too slow. and this is the problem with most pump spells, anything that costs 2, I believe is too much, it needs to cost 1 or free, which is why I ran the suite I did. (though I only ran 3 route, as I only had 3, would of played 4 if I did)
invigorate- only reason I played this deck (really, i was going through my collection one day, found this card and decided on poison)
route- weaker than invigorate, but again, it is a free spell
Vines of Vast Wood- this is a must play, as it saves you from path and swords, and any other removal, it also is a +4/+4 pump when needed (and the only 2 pump spell I would play) but unless it is do or die, NEVER go for the win if your opponenet has mana up by kicking this spell UNLESS it is in response to a kill spell. This should be obvious, but this card keeps this deck viable.
Rancor-needed to trample somehow, and as a added bonus, it is 1cc, so obvious choice.
Bounty of the hunt- I did not play this card, though I did at first, as free spells are nice. 2 things wrong with it though,
A)almost never had a green card to pitch with, or if I did, the green card was strictly better.
B)This deck has no card advantage, the deck needs to win in the first 4/5 turns or your chance of winning is very low, and card disadvantage does not help this. If you must go budget, I'd use it, but if you do, the creature base needs to be modified (such as the inclusion of blight mamba)[Though this is why putrafax was in the deck, it was green, and forgot to remove putrafax when I removed the bounty, that being said, it is also the reason cystbearer is in the deck, and that I have not regretted yet).
Tainted strike- ah the most controversial card in my deck. you can remove it if you like, but I will keep it in my deck, for 3 reasons
A)noble heirarch
B)Virlent sliver
C)Vector Asp
well duh, you must be saying, those are the 3 cards without infect, but that is exactly why, you are running 12 cards without infect, tainted strike is mandatory in my eyes, plus worse case it is a +1 pump. Now you must be saying, why play them when you have blight mamba and necropede as infect creatures I'm not running. well there is a reason I'm not running them. and reason #1 is cmc. All three cards I named are 1 drops, that that is HUGE in this deck. If you can be poison them starting turn 2, then you are on the way to victory.
Also while infect does not stack, poisonous 1 and infect stacks to make a wonderful 3 poison counters from virulent sliver on turn 2. Also why pay B to make vector asp gain infect, when you can pay B to give vector asp infect AND +1/+0. Obvious choice is obvious. Also, though this only happened once, it still happened, my opponent swung for lethal. I tainted strike his biggest creature, and swung back for the win. just food for though, a fog effect that is almost never used, it at least is an option when needed.
Livewire lash- Originally was going to jitte in this deck, lucky for you budget folks I didn't, and lucky for me I didn't as I've won a match off Lash as late game reach helps a lot.play with the card, it works
finally the creatures, I wont go into too much details as most should be obvious
but
ichorclaw myr and plague stinger are the best two-drops with infect hands down, 1 trades/kills ever creature (oh hello there 2/3 tarmogoyf) and stinger flies, I think that is enough.
cystbearer- The strongest play you can do with deck? turn 2 cystbearer, that being said, the worse thing you can do, no play until turn 3 cystbearer. There is a reason I only ran two, if I'm going budget, running 4 is fine but be advised, your only running 17 lands, so 3 mana is quite a lot, doable, but hard.
Birds of paradise/noble hierarch- noble was in for 2 reason, ramp and exalted, birds can only do 1 of those. Now I did say turn 2 cystbearer was my strongest play, want to know my strongest consistance play? Turn 1 1 drop, turn two hierarch, swing for at least 2 poison (normally more off a pump spell), do you know what you can't do with birds? exalted bonus. now I can't say birds is not a budget swamp for hierarch, but two things occur, if you don't swap, and just remove the hierarch, what do you replace? Land? While adding lands solves mana issues, it adds one problem that doesn't occur with my 17 land deck (well it happens, but VERY rarely) and that is mana flood, once you have 2/3 lands, you don't need more, adding lands adds to your dead draws, and in this deck 1 dead draw can be the difference between winning a losing. So then you decide to put the birds in. but then gameplay choices happen. Because it never happened with me, If given the choice between 1 drop infect or one drop hierarch, I always went turn 1 infect, knowing I could turn 2 +1/+1 pump. If i had to choose between turn 1 birds and turn 1 1-drop, I have no idea. yes turn 2 poison is good, but
turn 1 1 drop
turn 2 birds is quite bad
likewise
turn 1 birds
turn 2 2 drop 1 drop
while better
you aren't swinging until turn 3. given budget, it perfectly fine I suppose, but I do not support that. Birds can swap, but hierarch really fits his role perfectly
vector Asp, Virlent Sliver
As I said in tainted strike, 1 drop is so good, and while they aren't the best creatures, getting that one drop is very key. Also the fact vector asp doesn't have infect is actually a bonus. as againt ANT, you don't try racing with posion, you actually try to kill them with life, between Bob's and ad naseum, life total becomes the way to win (I would of beat the ANT deck if I mind break trapped the correct card, but hit the wrong card and lost because of it, but he would of lost to virlent with rancor on it the next turn otherwise) Sometimes you need to attack the 20, and not the 10, flexibility is huge, and hence my creature choice. I would not change it.
Now for blight mamba,Contagious Nim, ichor Rats,Necropede, every other infect creature with a cmc of 4+.
Well lets start with the easiest
cmc 4+-com'on people we are talking about legacy where 3 drops are expensive.
ichor rats- now maybe this would be a good card for late game reach, my issue it the BB cost in my heavy green deck. You need to play green for the pumps, and if your going budget, you don't have the duals to support heavy black.
Contagious nim- well it was him or cystbearer going in the deck, and as i said before I used to have bounty in the deck and cystbearer won. But that 3 toughness on cyst is so key. with all the pumps in the deck, the difference between 2 power and 3 power is minimal, as most pumps will be a +4/+4 and +2/+2 for a total of 6, or +4/+4 and +4/+4 for a total of 8, 8+2 is 10 and 6 + 3 is 9, with 2 you kill them anyway if you do, with 3 you don't kill them if you can't. so the power loss is not much, but what is really good? being able to trade for a 2/2 lord and living. cystbearer all the way for my 3 drop.
Now why I don't run pede or mamba, simple, I don't want to have my creatures blocked/or have them block. well if my creatures aren't blocking or being blocked, why do I need regen? path and swords gets through that. only bolt is the one that matters. so the advantage of my snake is that it regens? not much of a bonus compared to being a cheaper creature (vector asp, sliver), flying (stinger), or +2/+2 when blocked (only time I like when my opponent blocks), mamba is too weak.
same thing for pede, it effect only cares when it goes to the grave. Why is my creature going to the grave? so against pede gets the cut, also though, another reason (as if you needed another) its not green, so if you decide to go the bounty of the hunt route, you can't pitch it, so if you needed a sub for budget (though most creatures in this deck are 25 cents, so i don't see creatures being the issue) mamba would see play if I went to bounty of the hunt route for the mere fact it is green, but then I'd rather have more pump spells. That being said, you do need creatures as all pump spells you draw are dead cards without creatures, and as i said before, dead cards are the difference between a win and a loss with this deck.
Maybe I didn't give the best budget primer, and it might not be coherent as I wrote all of this in one go, and my brain likes to wonder off sometimes, if you want clarification, I can add to this later. Hopefully this was helpful
EDIT: eh maybe some of my reasons were wrong, as I just remembered this is the causal forum, and not the legacy forum, but most of the points are still valid, just not some things for cmc cost reasons as it is casual.
also for the sideboard, you left it out for metagame reasons, but overall, i made it to be quite diverse
Leyline and exterpaites for graveyard based decks
E-plagues for tribal decks (goblins and merfolk especially)
Mindbreak traps for combo
Duress for combo/control (these should of been thoughseizes, but alas, I was working under budget as well)
basic combo aggro and control match ups.
Granted I had more graveyard hate for survival, but even still I would not change my side board per say, as against control, you are quite fast, aggro your creatures are more efficient (in the sense yours only need to do 10, theirs need to do 20) and so your weakness are combo decks that storm, and combo decks that use the graveyard (lands, dredge, survival,etc).
Maybe meta game choices, but very few choices I'd make going into a blind tourny. If I knew it would be heavy combo or heavy aggro, then the sideboard would change, but in the void, that is defiantly the SB I would use
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
I think I could get the catacombs and maybe save up for hierarch (I wanted to get him for ages but any deck that has him has goyf so you get the idea).
As for the manabase I have to try out the heavier basics build though, I have Tomb of Yawgmoth though, might drop it in too. =D
As for Duress in the SB, I would say it's a fine choice though, most of the stuff we want to rip out of their hands (control/combo) are non-creature anyway.
Thanks again!
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
:symw::symw::symw:Infinite Life:symw::symw::symw:
:symgu::symgu::symgu:Infinite Mana:symgu::symgu::symgu:
:symr::symr::symr:Burn, Baby Burn:symr::symr::symr:
:symg::symg::symg:Beastiality:symg::symg::symg:
:symu::symu::symu:Slippery Merfolk:symu::symu::symu:
:symb::symr::symw::symg::symu:Proxy Slivers:symu::symg::symw::symr::symb:
:symw::symu::symb::symg:Control Fungus:symg::symb::symu::symw:
:symgb::symgb::symgb:Ebola:symgb::symgb::symgb:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4557651&postcount=1
TheWarden's Creative Commons Music Pick Project (Retired):
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Just want to clarify, Doubling Season does not work with Infect. Sadly.
Why is Noble Hierarch even in this deck to begin with? Definitely cut her for Birds of Paradise or Urborg Elf.
CG
:symw::symw::symw:Infinite Life:symw::symw::symw:
:symgu::symgu::symgu:Infinite Mana:symgu::symgu::symgu:
:symr::symr::symr:Burn, Baby Burn:symr::symr::symr:
:symg::symg::symg:Beastiality:symg::symg::symg:
:symu::symu::symu:Slippery Merfolk:symu::symu::symu:
:symb::symr::symw::symg::symu:Proxy Slivers:symu::symg::symw::symr::symb:
:symw::symu::symb::symg:Control Fungus:symg::symb::symu::symw:
:symgb::symgb::symgb:Ebola:symgb::symgb::symgb:
Exalted is good and pushes for one more poison counter, as KIDBUU have said.
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
Why do people suggest doubling season? It doesn't work with infect at all. It doesn't double the -1/-1 counters and it doesn't double the poison counters! Plus this deck whats to function with 3 lands at most.
Edit: sarnated