just moved from the introductions forum to here, was previously trying to discuss a mono blue deck which was stuck between a discard deck/control.
Hey guys!
I'm a post-grad student from NZ, very new to MTG, got into it when I was given 2 free 11th ed. starter decks during an exhibition on campus. Now I've even got my 3 flatmates to join in! I enjoy playing blue VERY much (although I'm still getting used to the rules), and my current deck (if you can call it that...) is a mono blue with a major identity crisis; its trying to be a control and a mill deck at the same time...I THINK?!
Those are all the current cards i own. Thus far we have been playing very casually and therefore we do not use a sideboard. I have consistently had my arse handed to me by a mate's mono red deck (consisting of some weak gobbo's and some very painful yet cheap blast spells... Flame slash, chandra's outrage. Flinging my jellyfish at me isn't cool either). So far i have beaten a green/white deck 3-0 (narrow wins on all occasions), and have had little trouble with a black green deck. As for Two-headed giant games or FFA, i have always been the first out and seem to be nothing but a mild annoyance.
Now that I'm getting more into the game, i really want to give my deck some direction. I love the idea of a mill deck reminiscent of the Mind of Void deck in DotP (would this be viable without the white cards to back it up?), but am also loving the use of control(?) cards like Narcolepsy, Mind Control, Sleep... Any ideas on where i should be going with this deck? I will be heading to the local store very soon to get more cards (very limited budget however, broke-as postgrad student!) and would appreciate some insight on what I should be looking out for!
PS: i have a strong feeling i'm posting in the wrong section to be discussing decks, feel free to point me in the right direction should this be done elsewhere.
I've since tried to come up with a new deck, given up on the idea of a discard, and have come up with this!
I am trying to trim the deck down, for example i still can't decide on a good Ponder,Preordain,Augury Owl and Sage Owl ratio. The ability to reveal more is always great, but the ability to scry and chuck cards not needed for a given situation at the very bottom of my library is really useful as well...
Also deciding on which walls to keep and which to get rid off...and if i might have just one too many sprites....
What's the current count...75ish? You've got a good idea of what you want...lets focus it a tad :).
For an average control deck, 24 land is standard, 8-10 draw (Ponder, Preordain & jace's Inginuity are decent cards), 4-10 creatures (depending on how much control you want vs. creatures...its up to your style, can include some of your "control magic" sort of cards), and at least 12 "control" cards (which includes "bounce" like unsummon, and typical "counterspells").
This is typically known as "aggro-control". More creatures makes it more aggro, more control/bounce makes it more control. With all the flyers (and Deluge'esque cards), its looking like "skies".
I'd keep good control (like Counterspell, Remove Soul, Mana Leak, Unsummon), good flyers, and good draw (ponder, preordain, inginuity, an couple owls), and stip out the poor performers (like azure drake and cloud sprite)...
With that advice, try adding the best cards you have in there until you get to 60, and post what you think you might like :).
IMO Augury Owl >Sage Owl nothing worse then seeing 4 lands/dead cards and being able to do nothing about it.
How much do you like diminish? I usually end up cutting it.
I don't think Diminish is great in this deck. It's good in decks that capitalize on the x/1, like Caltrops, Tims like Prodigal Sorcerer, Innocent Blood, etc.
@DrDRum. The azures were more of a defensive move, but with the walls and Diminish etc. i guess i don't really require them. I was hoping the sprites would give me some early damage. I'll try a couple of games with the new drakes and without the sprites.
still needs some trimming, its now at 64. i can't let go of my elixir i'll leave it at that for now. awesome feedback, lemme know what you think of this new one. I was considering some Wind Drakes but i don't think they'll be thaat necessary unless i get really unlucky with mana.
@Shalako. woot, glad to see you again! (note the mana leaks) Diminish has been a key card in most of my (20 or so... >.<) games. Blocking a Yavimaya worm with a Wall of Frost is one thing, killing a Protean Hydra with about 7 counters on it + Armored Ascension with a tiny owl is...priceless. I might remove them when playing against a red or black deck, and put in more bounce cards, but for now i'll keep them there. But i agree with you regarding the owl issue, scrying has really helped recently, and with the removal of my Sea Gate Oracles, Augury Owls it is!
@Shalako. woot, glad to see you again! (note the mana leaks) Diminish has been a key card in most of my (20 or so... >.<) games. Blocking a Yavimaya worm with a Wall of Frost is one thing, killing a Protean Hydra with about 7 counters on it + Armored Ascension with a tiny owl is...priceless. I might remove them when playing against a red or black deck, and put in more bounce cards, but for now i'll keep them there. But i agree with you regarding the owl issue, scrying has really helped recently, and with the removal of my Sea Gate Oracles, Augury Owls it is!
problem with Bold: you have the layers wrong, Diminish makes them a 1/1 but the armored ascension or 7 +1/+1 counters will boost it past 1/1.
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Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
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For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
8/15/2010 Effects that modify the targeted creature's power or toughness, such as the effects of Giant Growth or Honor of the Pure, will apply to it no matter when they started to take effect. The same is true for counters that change the creature's power or toughness (such as +1/+1 counters) and effects that switch its power and toughness.
Now i read it -_- hmm, might go with Shalako's suggestion and do without them. Thanks for pointing it out man. Would you happen to know an example of what effect would resolve BEFORE Diminish and therefore make it...useful? (besides the creature's original power and toughness)
Afterlife would work. Its not blue, though. Icy Manipulator is an old fav, and Twiddle used to be cool once upon a time...while not doing the same thing as Diminish, they serve a similar purpose :). Betrayal is a cool blue card to stick on one'a their critters.
Just had a look at your MUC deck, heady stuff! When's your Skies deck out? Liking Twiddle, may try that or Icy Manipulator as a replacement to Diminish.
Lol, ye'oldschool skies deck is pretty simple, pretty old. I just haven't gotten around to posting it online yet ;).
Off the top of my head...something like...
You aren't kidding when you say old school huh, had a look at your ol'school mono black discard as well. I had a few cards from the Urza blocks, but that was years ago...and your cards seem to go even further back
I think the current casual group i game with have agreed to stick to more current editions, bummer. Right now.. i'm quite happy with messing around with mono blue. Wall of Swords would make a nice replacement for Wall of Air though... *considers making a blue-white deck* Maybe when i have more cash
Main deck is at 63, sideboard is actually a wishlist for specific situations, might get Halimar Depths and Redirect to begin with. Not entirely sure what that 6cc Roil Elemental is doing there...i just liek how eet zounds
I think Deluge is your weakest link in the deck now. Unlike Sleep it doesn't buy you an extra turn, just sorta acts like an expensive Fog and well, fog isn't that great imo. Even if you tap all non-fliers, if you're trying to fly past a large flying blocker it doesn't help, nor does it stop creatures from tapping in response to use abilities.
I'd next look at trimming a few creatures as your next step. I'd maybe cut one 4cc or 5cc creature, and out of them I think one Air Servant can probably go. Windrider Eel is a lot like a 4/4 on the offense due to its handy dandy landfall, which means its usually going to be a bit better than Snapping Drake so maybe cutting one or both drakes might be good too.
What's your opinion on Crystal Ball? I'd play a couple because then you can do silly things with Djinn of Wishes and the new Conundrum Sphinx (who by himself is already a 4/4 flying for 4 mana, making him already better than your other fliers).
Overall, welcome to magic, and you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you like to play, what good cards are, and the basics of deckbuilding. Nice work!
just moved from the introductions forum to here, was previously trying to discuss a mono blue deck which was stuck between a discard deck/control.
I've since tried to come up with a new deck, given up on the idea of a discard, and have come up with this!
1x Wall of Spears
2x Sage Owl
2x Djinn of Wishes
2x Azure Drake
2x Snapping Drake
2x Air Servant
3x Cloud Sprite
1x Guard Gomazoa
1x Wall of Air
1x Wall of Frost
4x Narcolepsy
2x Persuasion
25x Island
3x Counterspell
2x Deluge
3x Diminish
3x Jace's Ingenuity
2x Mana Leak
2x Remove Soul
3x Unsummon
2x Ponder
2x Preordain
3x Sleep
I am trying to trim the deck down, for example i still can't decide on a good Ponder,Preordain,Augury Owl and Sage Owl ratio. The ability to reveal more is always great, but the ability to scry and chuck cards not needed for a given situation at the very bottom of my library is really useful as well...
Also deciding on which walls to keep and which to get rid off...and if i might have just one too many sprites....
Any feedback would be MINT.
For an average control deck, 24 land is standard, 8-10 draw (Ponder, Preordain & jace's Inginuity are decent cards), 4-10 creatures (depending on how much control you want vs. creatures...its up to your style, can include some of your "control magic" sort of cards), and at least 12 "control" cards (which includes "bounce" like unsummon, and typical "counterspells").
This is typically known as "aggro-control". More creatures makes it more aggro, more control/bounce makes it more control. With all the flyers (and Deluge'esque cards), its looking like "skies".
I'd keep good control (like Counterspell, Remove Soul, Mana Leak, Unsummon), good flyers, and good draw (ponder, preordain, inginuity, an couple owls), and stip out the poor performers (like azure drake and cloud sprite)...
With that advice, try adding the best cards you have in there until you get to 60, and post what you think you might like :).
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
How much do you like diminish? I usually end up cutting it.
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I don't think Diminish is great in this deck. It's good in decks that capitalize on the x/1, like Caltrops, Tims like Prodigal Sorcerer, Innocent Blood, etc.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
1x Elixir of Immortality
2x Augury Owl
2x Djinn of Wishes
2x Snapping Drake
2x Air Servant
2x Guard Gomazoa
2x Wall of Air
2x Narcolepsy
25x Island
2x Counterspell
2x Deluge
3x Diminish
3x Jace's Ingenuity
2x Mana Leak
3x Unsummon
2x Ponder
2x Preordain
2x Sleep
still needs some trimming, its now at 64. i can't let go of my elixir i'll leave it at that for now. awesome feedback, lemme know what you think of this new one. I was considering some Wind Drakes but i don't think they'll be thaat necessary unless i get really unlucky with mana.
@Shalako. woot, glad to see you again! (note the mana leaks) Diminish has been a key card in most of my (20 or so... >.<) games. Blocking a Yavimaya worm with a Wall of Frost is one thing, killing a Protean Hydra with about 7 counters on it + Armored Ascension with a tiny owl is...priceless. I might remove them when playing against a red or black deck, and put in more bounce cards, but for now i'll keep them there. But i agree with you regarding the owl issue, scrying has really helped recently, and with the removal of my Sea Gate Oracles, Augury Owls it is!
problem with Bold: you have the layers wrong, Diminish makes them a 1/1 but the armored ascension or 7 +1/+1 counters will boost it past 1/1.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Now i read it -_- hmm, might go with Shalako's suggestion and do without them. Thanks for pointing it out man. Would you happen to know an example of what effect would resolve BEFORE Diminish and therefore make it...useful? (besides the creature's original power and toughness)
Betrayal is a cool blue card to stick on one'a their critters.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Just had a look at your MUC deck, heady stuff! When's your Skies deck out? Liking Twiddle, may try that or Icy Manipulator as a replacement to Diminish.
Trying to decide between the Snapping Drakes and these sexy new landfall eels i found! Windrider Eel
Off the top of my head...something like...
4 Flying Men (1cc)
4 Mesa Pegasus (2cc)
4 Man-O'-War (3cc)
3 Phantom Monster (4cc)
2 Serra Angel (5cc)
2 Air Elemental (5cc)
2 Wall of Swords
4 Swords to Plowshares (1cc)
2 Pacifism (2cc)
4 Counterspell (2cc)
2 Flood (2cc)
3 Unsummon (1cc)
2 Icy Manipulator (4cc)
2 Memory Lapse (2cc)
4 Tundra
5 Plains
12 Island
1 Sol Ring
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
You aren't kidding when you say old school huh, had a look at your ol'school mono black discard as well. I had a few cards from the Urza blocks, but that was years ago...and your cards seem to go even further back
I think the current casual group i game with have agreed to stick to more current editions, bummer. Right now.. i'm quite happy with messing around with mono blue. Wall of Swords would make a nice replacement for Wall of Air though... *considers making a blue-white deck* Maybe when i have more cash
As for now...
1x Elixir of Immortality
2x Augury Owl
2x Djinn of Wishes
2x Snapping Drake
2x Air Servant
2x Windrider Eel
2x Guard Gomazoa
2x Wall of Air
3x Mind Control
2x Narcolepsy
2x Counterspell
2x Deluge
3x Jace's Ingenuity
2x Mana Leak
3x Unsummon
2x Ponder
2x Preordain
2x Sleep
2x Redirect
1x Kraken's Eye
2x Archive Trap
2x Lethargy Trap
2x Permafrost Trap
2x Whiplash Trap
2x Dread Statuary
2x Halimar Depths
Main deck is at 63, sideboard is actually a wishlist for specific situations, might get Halimar Depths and Redirect to begin with. Not entirely sure what that 6cc Roil Elemental is doing there...i just liek how eet zounds
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=127892
I'd next look at trimming a few creatures as your next step. I'd maybe cut one 4cc or 5cc creature, and out of them I think one Air Servant can probably go. Windrider Eel is a lot like a 4/4 on the offense due to its handy dandy landfall, which means its usually going to be a bit better than Snapping Drake so maybe cutting one or both drakes might be good too.
What's your opinion on Crystal Ball? I'd play a couple because then you can do silly things with Djinn of Wishes and the new Conundrum Sphinx (who by himself is already a 4/4 flying for 4 mana, making him already better than your other fliers).
Overall, welcome to magic, and you seem to have a pretty good handle on what you like to play, what good cards are, and the basics of deckbuilding. Nice work!
Fattycakes Zombie of Clan Limited