MTG Salvation

Getting back into the game after a long hiatus.

I'm an old school player, most of my stuff is revised - tempest block. We started playing in '94, stopped playing in '02-ish. Now, the old group is getting back in a little. We're very casual, both 1on1 and 4-6 player multis, Type 1 B/R list, old rules (I think either revised or classic-6th rules when "the stack" was created). We stopped playing the game mostly b/c Wizards seemed to be making stronger cards to replace our old ones, and we didn't want to spend more money as poor college kids. Back in now, its just seems like a different game.

Anyways...here's my old Green/Red aggro:


Is this deck still good anymore? Uber-budget recommendations?
DRum

Quote from DrDRum

Is this deck still good anymore? Uber-budget recommendations?
DRum

If anything, this kind of aggro deck is at its strongest today since... well, forever. I mean, GR aggro wasn't really tier 1 in vintage in the past, but today its a contender.

However, that's mostly because of 1 card: tarmogoyf, While mr goyf is actually a budget card compared to the rest of the staples of vintage, let's face it, he's pretty dang expensive.

edit: holy cow, he's $80 now?!

My suggestion would be to go WGR, not just GR. This give you access to the other powerhouse in decks like these: qasali pridemage and gaddock teeg. In the strict RG side, there's vexing shusher. From the purely green side, there's the madness triplets: wild mongrel, arrogant wurm, and basking rootwalla. While ideally these guys belong to a madness deck, they're fairly good beats on their own. From the purely red side... there isn't really much. grim lavamancer, although you're going to need a lot of fetchlands to make that work properly.

Given the low costs, you can also consider running aether vial, and if you're going to play vial, epochrasite.

SKULLCLAMP! While not too good in a competitive vintage deck, skullclamp is just a monster in casual in this deck. To a lesser extent umezawa's jitte, but more expensive.

Quote from mondu_the_fat

If anything, this kind of aggro deck is at its strongest today since... well, forever. I mean, GR aggro wasn't really tier 1 in vintage in the past, but today its a contender.

However, that's mostly because of 1 card: tarmogoyf, While mr goyf is actually a budget card compared to the rest of the staples of vintage, let's face it, he's pretty dang expensive.

edit: holy cow, he's $80 now?!

My suggestion would be to go WGR, not just GR. This give you access to the other powerhouse in decks like these: qasali pridemage and gaddock teeg. In the strict RG side, there's vexing shusher. From the purely green side, there's the madness triplets: wild mongrel, arrogant wurm, and basking rootwalla. While ideally these guys belong to a madness deck, they're fairly good beats on their own. From the purely red side... there isn't really much. grim lavamancer, although you're going to need a lot of fetchlands to make that work properly.

Given the low costs, you can also consider running aether vial, and if you're going to play vial, epochrasite.

SKULLCLAMP! While not too good in a competitive vintage deck, skullclamp is just a monster in casual in this deck. To a lesser extent umezawa's jitte, but more expensive.

Awsome, thanks for the reply :). I'm not sure about going 3 color, that'd be hell on a budget manabase, no? Still, some white for Swords To Plowshares would rock.

Thanks...yeah, that friend that kept playing over the yeras has a couple of those Tarmogoyfs. I guess I don't get it, though...wouldn't you pretty much have to build a deck around him with all the different card types? How is this guy so strong, or how is he abused? In my kind of deck, I don't see more than a Land, Instant and Creature in the graveyard, which 3/3 is cool for 2...I don't see how he'd play into my deck well.

And $80 is way outta' budget :embarrass:...wayyy wayyy :lol:. Don't let the duals fool ya', I've got no budget for this game anymore. THose duals were $3 when I got 'em. I'm looking for uber-budget help that might tweak things. I just found Colossal Might, NICE! Its everything Blood Lust wants to be, and more. Symbiosis looks to be an interesting replacement for a couple Incinerates or Flunkies...

Skullclamp...damn, see that's what I mean about Wizards bumping older cards with new brokenness. Shouldn't that be blue, and like cost twice as much? Wow...I wonder if my playgroup would let something let that fly.

Quote from geomer

As an old-Schooler myself I <3 Tinder Wall!
(almost) nothing beats 2 Cpt. Kirks 1st turn or a Blastoderm in turn 2.

There's also the route of Keldon Marauders and Hellspark Elemental as fast beaters, that aren't that expensive.

Old schooler! *fist-bump*.

You know, I've got a half dozen of those, and never thought to put them in here ('DOH)...I have some in an old elfball deck (I'll post that up someday).

I love the way this deck plays, Rogue Elephant > Harvest Wurm > Fallow Wurm is a beautiful thing :D. Is there anything that can help/play this out better?
Also, is there any new burn to replace my Incinerate or even Lightning Bolt (searching, I'm not sure there is besides Firebolt)

DRum

Burning-Tree Shaman is a 3/4 for but watch out for what cards you play it with (ex. don't put it in a deck with Grim Lavamancer). Rumbling Slum, Scab-Clan Mauler, Skarrgan Pit-Skulk, Skarrg, the Rage Pits, Flametongue Kavu, Colossal Might, Vines of Vastwood, Rancor, Moldervine Cloak, and Giant Solifuge are pretty good too. All are budget friendly. If you can get more Karplusan Forests, they work really well with the Bloodthirst creatures, as does Rumbling Slum.

To replace Lightning Bolt as burn is just impossible, far to efficient, Burst Lightning and Searing Blaze are in standard right now and being a relatively new player im fond of em'.

Searing blaze is only played as a sorcery, without fetches.

Rancor should be played.

Ooooh, Wild Nacatl and Loam Lion...that's what I'm talkin' about...
Yeah, got a couple Plateau and a Savannah, but they're in other decks. Hmmm...StP could replace Incinerate...

How's this look for a first swing:


Wonder if I could borrow a few other duals, see how it'd play out.
EDIT: Looks a little spread thin on mana unless there's a BoP in the opening.

DRum

Wassabout the elf? Especially the bloodbraid kind?

Don't really like the ogre, rather have the boa.

Or better yet, qasali pridemage.

Giant Strength has a difficult casting cost and it's the worst card in the deck. Cut it for Lightning Helix if you're going GWR.

Drop the 2 River Boa for 1 more land and the 4th Lightning Bolt.

Woolly Thoctarand Bloodbraid Elf are new cards that could go well. I suggest dropping either Kird Ape or Loam Lion for the Thoctar or Elf.

Cut loam lion for thoctar. This build is more redbased than white-based.

Thoctar ensures a third turn drop, while elf might come a turn too late.

Rancor is way too expensive for a common...but its just freakin' brilliant. Its in.

Quote from geomer

I have heard of a nice RG Elf that everyone is crazy about.


is a nice route but i don't know if you take away too much gas. Fallow Wurm is a 4/4 playable only when u have land in hand.
harvest wurm sits around too often without a land in your GY.

if you have some plateaus and savannahs lying around then Wild Nacatl is a guy to consider. it's a Elephant without landloss.

The rogue>harvest>fallow deal tends to work about 50% of the time, and the rest of the time, the harvest always works for either the rogue or the fallow. I don't tend to mind losing the land to the elephant or the fallow. It usually works perty good however things play out

And I dig the Nacatl...he's in.

Quote from Kennethwong

Wassabout the elf? Especially the bloodbraid kind?

Don't really like the ogre, rather have the boa.

Or better yet, qasali pridemage.

I'm sure Cascade is the newest thang...but I'm not introducing a new mechanic into the group. He's out. Qasali (however you'd pronouce that?) is interesting...mebe

Quote from geomer

read 1st post: he's old-school. doesn't know that naya is RGW.

Is naya some nickname for RGW...like allied 3-color is called naya now?

And yeah, the thoctar looks good here. 5/4 is nothing to sneeze at.

Now see...what happened to roughly 1 mana for 1 power and toughness? This guy's big...almost too big...like broken. My playgroup will give me ☺☺☺☺ for playing a 5/4 for 3cc...but he's in.

I think he meant Giant Growth.

I did

STP is out, and so is the Ogre, who tends to do better in a mono green.

Maybe we need some more creature power-pump like O-Naginata and/or Rancor.

changes that are suggested:
4 Loam Lion -> 4 Woolly Thoctar
3 StP & 1 Harvest Wurm -> 4 Rancor/O-Naginata

think again if you really want to have the land eating elephant and his wurm-friend in your deck. the suggestions and changes here now lead more to a deck where lands are needed: Nacatl/Kirk Ape/Thoctar
Yeah...the deck is changing bigtime...

Okay...this its funny just how different this deck is from the original...



I tweaked with the best land searcher I've ever seen...Terramorphic Expanse(!). Might swap in something for the Rogue Elephant, who doesn't work quite so well without his Harvest Wurm pal...

DRum

With the ape/lion/nacatl in your deck, I hope your friends dont play land destruction... Also, all of your cards cost less than 3 cmc, you need some diggers if your going to run your deck like this... I suggest harmonize or browbeat...

Quote from MrFloppy

With the ape/lion/nacatl in your deck, I hope your friends dont play land destruction...

Very little LD in my group...I had a mean R/G land destruction deck...and since that was banned by the group, there's not alot of LD.

DRum