So this deck started out as a GW Enchantress (control?) deck but I felt like Estrid and splashing U was too good to pass up. I'm having several problems though.
1. Is Estrid better of in an Auras deck or a Enchantress deck? I'm having a little trouble with that.
2. I'm not sure if I'm running enough enchantment mana ramp. I don't see it very often in the few games that I've played.
3. I'm pretty sure I need to cut a few GW lands and add some more U sources.
I run a pretty similar Estrid list. My meta is a casual / 75% meta so my version has fewer costly haymakers but is a little more tuned to abuse Estrid's untap ability. I've played both the big enchantments/good stuff and the auras version and the auras version runs a lot smoother with Estrid I've found. The problem with just "enchantment good stuff" is that it doesn't interact with Estrid all that much, given you don't have many creatures to mask, and you only have a handful of enchantments that interact with her untap ability. Right now you sort of need Opalescence to win. Aside from turning your enchantments sideways, there isn't much to do damage or close a game out. So you are just giving your opponents many turns to find nonpermanent answers (you don't really have counters). I would think this list would be very soft to token / go wide strategies, shroud/hexproof creatures, or spellslinger win conditions. The adjustment I made was adding more enchantments-matter creatures, more control magic effects, and a few of the best auras in place of all the spot removal enchantments and pillow fort effects. Estrid's minus does nothing for you in this list but can win games in the aura strategy.
Some small suggestions:
- A few obvious nonbos: Ground Seal doesn't play well with the enchantment recursion creatures. You have wilderness reclamation but almost nothing to do with the mana on opponent's turns. I'd probably just run the seal of primordium instead of acidic slime.
- I'd consider most of the enchantments on this list: U/G/W land auras
- Some solid cards you just don't have in the list: Oath of Teferi (better if you lean into auras, combines with Estrid's untap to give triple mana). Treachery (another mana tripler with auras), and other control magic effects. Auratog (having a sac outlet is more valuable than you'd imagine - sac oblivion rings in response to a board wipe; sac everything before Estrid's ult to typically immediately win the game with a huge auratog; attack freely because nobody will block auratog with potentially 10 +2/+2 triggers). Bruna light of alabaster (game winner if you go with auras). Ancestral mask, armadillo cloak, Eldrazi conscription. Add a few more wrath effects in place of spot removal if you go with auras, as you can mask your creatures with Estrid to save them. Nyalea's colossus is a game winner in the auras build. Tuvasa the Sunlit is basically another enchantress that can't combo off.
- If you stay big enchantment focused, though, I'd probably add priviledged position (to protect everything) and heliod god of the sun (mana sink that triggers ETBs like sigil of the throne).
I played a few games with aura-oriented Estrid in my group over the weekend and had an estrid ult that drew 18 cards and enabled a lifelinked, trample swing for 4000 on turn 7 (by Hana the navigator no less). So it plays less like a control deck and more like a combo / control deck.
I think you're absolutely correct! Thank you for the suggestions. I think it would probably be better to lean into Auras a little more. I'm playing in a Commander league and the decks there vary wildly between precons and highly tuned decks. I do have a bit of a problem cutting cards, finding cool stuff I want to play is never a problem How many land enchantments do you think is reasonable?
So obviously with the lands it's what you can afford, but here is the list I'd add and I'm doing it in "best" order (not considering price however), so you can pick and choose depending on what you can spend $$.
As far as the deck itself, Parallax Wave can be a great defensive card, or protection for your own creatures, but more importantly it combos with Opalescence and Starfield of Nyx.
Because Parallax Wave will become a creature, you can target itself for the exile. There are a couple of tricks you can do there.
The first one is that with Opalescence you can exile all your opponents creatures permanently. What you can do is target them all with Parallax Wave and while the exile triggers are still on the stack, before they resolve target your own Parallax Wave to exile (as a creature). What happens is that the Parallax Wave gets exiled and returns to play, but is considered a "new" card for the purposes of checking for "When Parallax Wave leaves the battlefield, each player returns to the battlefield all cards they own exiled with Parallax Wave.". So because this has already happened, the creatures get exiled permanently.
Now you can also look to get value off enter the battlefield triggers by exiling them with Parallax Wave and then returning them to play by targeting the Parallax Wave with it's own ability.
So for example target Abundant Growth or Eidolon of Blossoms, but let it resolve so that actually get exiled. Then you can simply target the Parallax Wave (as a creature with Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx) so that it removes itself, triggering to come back into play along with Abundant Growth or Eidolon of Blossoms. You can do this infinite times.
So obviously with the lands it's what you can afford, but here is the list I'd add and I'm doing it in "best" order (not considering price however), so you can pick and choose depending on what you can spend $$.
As far as the deck itself, Parallax Wave can be a great defensive card, or protection for your own creatures, but more importantly it combos with Opalescence and Starfield of Nyx.
Because Parallax Wave will become a creature, you can target itself for the exile. There are a couple of tricks you can do there.
The first one is that with Opalescence you can exile all your opponents creatures permanently. What you can do is target them all with Parallax Wave and while the exile triggers are still on the stack, before they resolve target your own Parallax Wave to exile (as a creature). What happens is that the Parallax Wave gets exiled and returns to play, but is considered a "new" card for the purposes of checking for "When Parallax Wave leaves the battlefield, each player returns to the battlefield all cards they own exiled with Parallax Wave.". So because this has already happened, the creatures get exiled permanently.
Now you can also look to get value off enter the battlefield triggers by exiling them with Parallax Wave and then returning them to play by targeting the Parallax Wave with it's own ability.
So for example target Abundant Growth or Eidolon of Blossoms, but let it resolve so that actually get exiled. Then you can simply target the Parallax Wave (as a creature with Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx) so that it removes itself, triggering to come back into play along with Abundant Growth or Eidolon of Blossoms. You can do this infinite times.
These are fantastic suggestions. I think that's more than reasonable amount to spend on improving the manabase. I'll look at your list when I get home. Thanks!
Hadn't come across your primer on Estrid, Darren. Just finished reading through that thread; such an awesome contribution! It's a little too slow and controlling for my group, which it would certainly crush in given it's power level, but gave me some great ideas for additions to my list overall.
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1. Is Estrid better of in an Auras deck or a Enchantress deck? I'm having a little trouble with that.
2. I'm not sure if I'm running enough enchantment mana ramp. I don't see it very often in the few games that I've played.
3. I'm pretty sure I need to cut a few GW lands and add some more U sources.
On to the decklist!
1x Estrid, the Masked *CMDR*
Instants (3):
1x Chord of Calling
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Eladamri's Call
Sorceries (5):
1x Replenish
1x Plea for Guidance
1x Commune with the Gods
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Winds of Rath
Enchantments (38):
1x Wild Growth
1x Wilderness Reclamation
1x Utopia Sprawl
1x Soul Snare
1x Sphere of Safety
1x Starfield of Nyx
1x Stasis Snare
1x Sterling Grove
1x Stony Silence
1x Sylvan Library
1x Solitary Confinement
1x Song of the Dryads
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1x Prison Term
1x Quarantine Field
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Opalescence
1x Overgrowth
1x Abundant Growth
1x Aura of Silence
1x Banishing Light
1x Copy Enchantment
1x Corrupted Conscience
1x Darksteel Mutation
1x Dawn's Reflection
1x Enchantress's Presence
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Fertile Ground
1x Ground Seal
1x Imprisoned in the Moon
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Karmic Justice
1x Luminarch Ascension
1x Mana Bloom
1x Mind's Dilation
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Mirri's Guile
1x Verduran Enchantress
1x Acidic Slime
1x Aegis of the Gods
1x Argothian Enchantress
1x Satyr Enchanter
1x Silent Sentinel
1x Auramancer
1x Eternal Witness
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1x Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Herald of the Pantheon
1x Monk Idealist
1x Mesa Enchantress
Lands (37):
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Treetop Village
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Scattered Groves
4x Plains
1x Prairie Stream
1x Azorius Guildgate
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Canopy Vista
3x Forest
1x Fortified Village
1x Grasslands
2x Island
1x Command Tower
1x Maze of Ith
1x Kjeldoran Outpost
1x Krosan Verge
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sol Ring
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Some small suggestions:
- A few obvious nonbos: Ground Seal doesn't play well with the enchantment recursion creatures. You have wilderness reclamation but almost nothing to do with the mana on opponent's turns. I'd probably just run the seal of primordium instead of acidic slime.
- I'd consider most of the enchantments on this list: U/G/W land auras
- Some solid cards you just don't have in the list: Oath of Teferi (better if you lean into auras, combines with Estrid's untap to give triple mana). Treachery (another mana tripler with auras), and other control magic effects. Auratog (having a sac outlet is more valuable than you'd imagine - sac oblivion rings in response to a board wipe; sac everything before Estrid's ult to typically immediately win the game with a huge auratog; attack freely because nobody will block auratog with potentially 10 +2/+2 triggers). Bruna light of alabaster (game winner if you go with auras). Ancestral mask, armadillo cloak, Eldrazi conscription. Add a few more wrath effects in place of spot removal if you go with auras, as you can mask your creatures with Estrid to save them. Nyalea's colossus is a game winner in the auras build. Tuvasa the Sunlit is basically another enchantress that can't combo off.
- If you stay big enchantment focused, though, I'd probably add priviledged position (to protect everything) and heliod god of the sun (mana sink that triggers ETBs like sigil of the throne).
I played a few games with aura-oriented Estrid in my group over the weekend and had an estrid ult that drew 18 cards and enabled a lifelinked, trample swing for 4000 on turn 7 (by Hana the navigator no less). So it plays less like a control deck and more like a combo / control deck.
You can definitely run less lands, you have 5 enchant lands which help with additional mana and you don't have any cards which allow you to make use of flooding out like Burgeoning, Exploration, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Oracle of Mul Daya.
Some of those lands look pretty dubious as well. There are too many tapped lands for the pay off they give you.
Remove
Kjeldoran Outpost - Not enough plains to consistently rely on.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - Needs to be in mono-colored, and even then hard to get going.
Rogue's Passage
Treetop Village
Selesnya Guildgate
Azorius Guildgate
Mistveil Plains - You have a graveyard ability with Estrids [-7] so lean on that.
So obviously with the lands it's what you can afford, but here is the list I'd add and I'm doing it in "best" order (not considering price however), so you can pick and choose depending on what you can spend $$.
Breeding Pool $11.95
Flooded Grove $6.68
Flooded Strand $25.99
Windswept Heath $15.25
Mystic Gate $20.69
Yavimaya Coast $1.32
Hinterland Harbor $6.29
Glacial Fortress $5.62
Adarkar Wastes $5.74
Brushland $5.03
Irrigated Farmland $0.83
Treva's Ruins $1.15
As far as the deck itself, Parallax Wave can be a great defensive card, or protection for your own creatures, but more importantly it combos with Opalescence and Starfield of Nyx.
Because Parallax Wave will become a creature, you can target itself for the exile. There are a couple of tricks you can do there.
The first one is that with Opalescence you can exile all your opponents creatures permanently. What you can do is target them all with Parallax Wave and while the exile triggers are still on the stack, before they resolve target your own Parallax Wave to exile (as a creature). What happens is that the Parallax Wave gets exiled and returns to play, but is considered a "new" card for the purposes of checking for "When Parallax Wave leaves the battlefield, each player returns to the battlefield all cards they own exiled with Parallax Wave.". So because this has already happened, the creatures get exiled permanently.
Now you can also look to get value off enter the battlefield triggers by exiling them with Parallax Wave and then returning them to play by targeting the Parallax Wave with it's own ability.
So for example target Abundant Growth or Eidolon of Blossoms, but let it resolve so that actually get exiled. Then you can simply target the Parallax Wave (as a creature with Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx) so that it removes itself, triggering to come back into play along with Abundant Growth or Eidolon of Blossoms. You can do this infinite times.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
These are fantastic suggestions. I think that's more than reasonable amount to spend on improving the manabase. I'll look at your list when I get home. Thanks!