My playgroup has expressed interest in building/playing a cube, and since I'm the biggest Pack Rat of the group, I'll probably be the one to actually put it together. I've read a few articles on the subject, such as this one, but I'm looking for some help to make sure I get off to a good start in terms of card selection.
A few notes about what I think I'm looking for:
- Not concerned about modern vs. traditional. My group has played long enough to remember the good ol' days.
- The size of the cube will probably be in the 450 range. I anticipate drafting with anywhere from 4-8 people at one time.
- I don't think it will be powered, at least not initially. The resources simply aren't there right now, and they aren't likely to be there anytime soon.
- Not interested in Unglued or Unhinged. Portal seems fine. Planechase, Commander, and other box sets also seem fine.
Couple of more specific questions I have:
- Is it better to start with someone else's list and then break off into my own design, or just build one from scratch? Ended up starting with the "average 450 cube has ____" list, modifying the land base a little.
- Is it a good idea to charge a (very small) entry fee in order to offset the cost of sleeves and storage, or the wear and tear on my cards, or just getting additional copies of expensive stuff like duals and fetches? Maybe a dollar per person? Maybe a quarter per person? After talking it over with my playgroup, I've decided on a policy of either a card or a quarter to play. I think that's a reasonable thing to assume given the cost of putting this together and the massive amounts of bulk stuff my friends have lying around.
- Should I run planeswalkers in this cube? Pros: fun and powerful to play with, not easy to splash or auto-pick like Swords are. Cons: sometimes too overpowered, can just take over games.
- Should I run Swords of X and Y in this cube? Pros: need creatures in order to actually function, fun factor here as well. Cons: almost always an auto-pick, regardless of how much they actually fit into your deck.
- Should I run Legacy staples in here? By that I'm referring to the likes of Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Force of Will, Liliana of the Veil, Thoughtseize, Tarmogoyf, Wasteland, and the like.
- How many lands are appropriate for a 450-card cube?
- The manabase is going to have the following lands for fixing. Do any of these cycles need to be removed?
- Should I include the 10 original Revised duals in this cube?
- Any other land cycles (Shards tri-lands, Urza's Legacy man-lands, Ice Age pain-lands, etc) that need to be included?
- Some of these cards that I'm not playing are in my collection, but devoted to other decks (big Jace, FoW, Bob, Liliana, etc)
- Some of them will hopefully become more affordable when they rotate out of Standard (Thundermaw, Geist)
- Some of them will probably never become affordable (Goyf, Mana Drain, etc)
- Some of them are just uber-douchey and under no circumstance have I ever enjoyed seeing them in play (Smokestack, Sundering Titan)
There's definitely nothing wrong with using someone else's list as a template or just building on your own to start. It's really just personal preference.
Personally, I think charging people to cube goes against the spirit of the format and is probably a little strange. Buying your own sleeves and box is just part of the responsibility of being a cube manager, in my opinion. Even after the cost of sleeves, a budget cube is probably still cheaper than a tier one standard or modern deck, so in the long run it's not really that much money.
What might be better is to see if there are any cards your potential players are willing to donate. There are quite a few powerful cube cards that aren't too expensive, but if you don't already own them, getting them from another player saves you a bit of money and hassle.
Personally, I think charging people to cube goes against the spirit of the format and is probably a little strange. Buying your own sleeves and box is just part of the responsibility of being a cube manager, in my opinion. Even after the cost of sleeves, a budget cube is probably still cheaper than a tier one standard or modern deck, so in the long run it's not really that much money.
What might be better is to see if there are any cards your potential players are willing to donate. There are quite a few powerful cube cards that aren't too expensive, but if you don't already own them, getting them from another player saves you a bit of money and hassle.
I agree with this completely, I think charging people just seems wrong. What I have found if you have a regular play group those people are willing to contribute to the cube. Whenever my players come across foils or things that I am missing they generally will either give them to me or trade them for their non foil counterparts. I think people are much more generous when they want to be not when they have to be.
I started my cube about 3 months ago, so I just went through the same process. I think picking a size helps a lot with finding a list you like to use as a template. I run a 360 cube, so I focused on those lists. My thoughts on the 360 size are that it is slightly cheaper, since you need less cards, less sleeves, less space. Easier to approach a full list when starting since there are less spots to fill. But once you have those first spots fairly well occupied, cutting is horrid. Too many awesome cards! I assume going to 450 or so would help that last part a lot.
To start, I highly recommend looking at the Cube Comparison Thread and checking out the section on cards under $1 and under $5. You can actually get a bunch of staples for very little money. After you get a base, fill the holes with cards that you already have but are perhaps a bit weaker than the average list here. Play with it a bit. See where things seem weak and move on to shoring up those spots. Then each purchase or trade helps the overall feel of your cube. Worked for me anyway!
As for charging, I do not, nor do I know anyone who does. People do bring beer though! I figure the beer is plenty.
One guy I cube with is planning on charging a foil per player when using his cube. This is less for the privilege of playing than as a token offering for the beer he inevitably supplies when folks play at his place. He uses the foils he takes in to either pimp his peasant cube, or as trade bait for the foils he needs; not a bad system in my opinion.
If someone wants to charge to use a cube, that money should be put towards purchasing prizes, that the cube owner then has the same chance as anyone else of winning.
I'd go with a 540 cube. It gives you some much needed flexibility with figuring out which cards to keep / cut. Also, it can draft up to 12 people (or, for less than 12 people, it offers variance in drafting... where you won't necessarily see the same card pool every time).
Instead of going off someone's list, I'd go off eidolon's Cube Comparison Results Thread. It provides what you are looking for (what cards are typical in a cube) while also showing card preferences (how many cubes run Hornet Queen vs Pelakka Wurm vs Terastodon). Look for the 3rd post down "Average Cubes."
It would be a good idea to look at people's powered and unpowered lists to see which cards belong in which. For example, my unpowered cube isn't going to run Gorilla Shaman because I'm not worried about providing an answer to moxen.
I wouldn't charge to cube. In my experience, my playgroup was so stoked to be a part of the cube that they'd often give me foils for the cube or trade them to me heavily in my favor.
Yeah I came across the average cube thread yesterday and I think it will be a good starting point for me. Most of my play group seemed pretty comfortable with a quarter admission fee.
It almost definitely depends on the playgroup, but I know that I would be uncomfortable paying to cube with a cube with which I was unfamiliar but would be willing to help out a friend whenever he needed it. My friends agreed to help me sleeve my cube, but ended up doing it myself just because I got impatient. If someone decides to buy me a beer or order pizza and not make me pay to thank me for letting them use it, I won't complain; I just wanted to cube so badly I didn't care if I had to pay for it all myself.
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My playgroup has expressed interest in building/playing a cube, and since I'm the biggest Pack Rat of the group, I'll probably be the one to actually put it together. I've read a few articles on the subject, such as this one, but I'm looking for some help to make sure I get off to a good start in terms of card selection.
A few notes about what I think I'm looking for:
- Not concerned about modern vs. traditional. My group has played long enough to remember the good ol' days.
- The size of the cube will probably be in the 450 range. I anticipate drafting with anywhere from 4-8 people at one time.
- I don't think it will be powered, at least not initially. The resources simply aren't there right now, and they aren't likely to be there anytime soon.
- Not interested in Unglued or Unhinged. Portal seems fine. Planechase, Commander, and other box sets also seem fine.
Couple of more specific questions I have:
-
Is it better to start with someone else's list and then break off into my own design, or just build one from scratch?Ended up starting with the "average 450 cube has ____" list, modifying the land base a little.-
Is it a good idea to charge a (very small) entry fee in order to offset the cost of sleeves and storage, or the wear and tear on my cards, or just getting additional copies of expensive stuff like duals and fetches? Maybe a dollar per person? Maybe a quarter per person?After talking it over with my playgroup, I've decided on a policy of either a card or a quarter to play. I think that's a reasonable thing to assume given the cost of putting this together and the massive amounts of bulk stuff my friends have lying around.- Should I run planeswalkers in this cube? Pros: fun and powerful to play with, not easy to splash or auto-pick like Swords are. Cons: sometimes too overpowered, can just take over games.
- Should I run Swords of X and Y in this cube? Pros: need creatures in order to actually function, fun factor here as well. Cons: almost always an auto-pick, regardless of how much they actually fit into your deck.
- Should I run Legacy staples in here? By that I'm referring to the likes of Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Force of Will, Liliana of the Veil, Thoughtseize, Tarmogoyf, Wasteland, and the like.
- How many lands are appropriate for a 450-card cube?
- The manabase is going to have the following lands for fixing. Do any of these cycles need to be removed?
- Any other land cycles (Shards tri-lands, Urza's Legacy man-lands, Ice Age pain-lands, etc) that need to be included?
Thanks in advance for all your help!
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Savannah Lions
1 Student of Warfare
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Precinct Captain
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Blade Splicer
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Exalted Angel
1 Mana Tithe
1 Balance
1 Glorious Anthem
1 Armageddon
1 Faith's Fetters
Blue:
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Fettergeist
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Dungeon Geists
1 Deep Analysis
Black:
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Entomb
1 Sarcomancy
Red:
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Jackal Pup
1 Reckless Waif
1 Stromkirk Noble
1 Ash Zealot
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Torch Fiend
1 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Fire Imp
1 Hell's Thunder
1 Manic Vandal
1 Hellrider
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Pillage
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Wildfire
Green:
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Deadbridge Goliath
1 Phantom Centaur
Gold:
1 Dreadbore
1 Armada Wurm
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Force of Will
1 Dark Confidant
1 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sundering Titan
1 Smokestack
1 Wasteland
- Some of them will hopefully become more affordable when they rotate out of Standard (Thundermaw, Geist)
- Some of them will probably never become affordable (Goyf, Mana Drain, etc)
- Some of them are just uber-douchey and under no circumstance have I ever enjoyed seeing them in play (Smokestack, Sundering Titan)
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Personally, I think charging people to cube goes against the spirit of the format and is probably a little strange. Buying your own sleeves and box is just part of the responsibility of being a cube manager, in my opinion. Even after the cost of sleeves, a budget cube is probably still cheaper than a tier one standard or modern deck, so in the long run it's not really that much money.
What might be better is to see if there are any cards your potential players are willing to donate. There are quite a few powerful cube cards that aren't too expensive, but if you don't already own them, getting them from another player saves you a bit of money and hassle.
I agree with this completely, I think charging people just seems wrong. What I have found if you have a regular play group those people are willing to contribute to the cube. Whenever my players come across foils or things that I am missing they generally will either give them to me or trade them for their non foil counterparts. I think people are much more generous when they want to be not when they have to be.
Draft it on Cube Tutor
I started my cube about 3 months ago, so I just went through the same process. I think picking a size helps a lot with finding a list you like to use as a template. I run a 360 cube, so I focused on those lists. My thoughts on the 360 size are that it is slightly cheaper, since you need less cards, less sleeves, less space. Easier to approach a full list when starting since there are less spots to fill. But once you have those first spots fairly well occupied, cutting is horrid. Too many awesome cards! I assume going to 450 or so would help that last part a lot.
To start, I highly recommend looking at the Cube Comparison Thread and checking out the section on cards under $1 and under $5. You can actually get a bunch of staples for very little money. After you get a base, fill the holes with cards that you already have but are perhaps a bit weaker than the average list here. Play with it a bit. See where things seem weak and move on to shoring up those spots. Then each purchase or trade helps the overall feel of your cube. Worked for me anyway!
As for charging, I do not, nor do I know anyone who does. People do bring beer though! I figure the beer is plenty.
If someone wants to charge to use a cube, that money should be put towards purchasing prizes, that the cube owner then has the same chance as anyone else of winning.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I'd go with a 540 cube. It gives you some much needed flexibility with figuring out which cards to keep / cut. Also, it can draft up to 12 people (or, for less than 12 people, it offers variance in drafting... where you won't necessarily see the same card pool every time).
Instead of going off someone's list, I'd go off eidolon's Cube Comparison Results Thread. It provides what you are looking for (what cards are typical in a cube) while also showing card preferences (how many cubes run Hornet Queen vs Pelakka Wurm vs Terastodon). Look for the 3rd post down "Average Cubes."
It would be a good idea to look at people's powered and unpowered lists to see which cards belong in which. For example, my unpowered cube isn't going to run Gorilla Shaman because I'm not worried about providing an answer to moxen.
I wouldn't charge to cube. In my experience, my playgroup was so stoked to be a part of the cube that they'd often give me foils for the cube or trade them to me heavily in my favor.
My Legacy-Legal Cube <--- Draft It!
wtwlf123's Classic Cube
Lanxal's Pauper Cube
Cubers, UNITE! Don't forget to post your cube location on The Great Cube Map Thread
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani