I haven't had a chance to play with these cards yet but i have been thinking about adding them to my cube, I am curious how you would rank these. On a scale of 1-5, what would you assign each of these cards. No explanation is necessary, but if you have something to add please do.
Archmage - 4. Solid counters on a decent body, awesome with blink effects.
Tezzeret - 2. Way too limited, he usually becomes a 5 mana tutor for a signet or an equipment.
Shackles - 5. One of the cornerstones of blue, reusable control effects, hard for aggro to beat.
Remove Soul - 3/4. I haven't tried it, but it's a 2 mana counter which is good.
Clone - 3. Reuse 187 effects and goes nicely with Kamigawa dragons.
Flood - 1/2. I haven't tried it but it doesn't seem that good, too expensive. But, like I said, I haven't tried it. It seems to be only usable in mono U also.
Ashling the Pilgrim - 4/5. One of my favorite red creatures, I was surprised at how good Molten Hydra was and Ashling is a lot better. I don't use its "blow up the world" effect much as its ability is very versatile (permanent!) pump. Interacts nicely with things like Swell of Courage if you are running it.
Rorix - 5. One of the best finishers of all time. 6 hasty damage for 6, its only downside is its RRR casting cost.
Orcish Settlers - 4. An underrated card, it's more of a late game card that is seen as a suspend card. Killing half of your opponent's lands, even on a turn delay, often is game, especially for a control deck trying to achieve stability. Works even better if you can kill lands like bouncelands and lands like Library of Alexandria.
(I'll do the rest later when I've got more time.)
Executioner's Capsule - 1/2. I think that there's much better removal out there in black (edicts, terror, Shriekmaw, Bone Shredder, Terror.)
Timbermare - 1. A bad Lava Axe that isn't guaranteed, and is a pretty poor deal of a body for its cost and if it doesn't deal the last 5 damage, you're in for a world of hurt. There are much better cards in both the 4 and 6 drop slots.
Panoramas - 1. There are much better non basics out there as the only fetching basic lands kills their effectiveness. The "bad" mirage fetchlands, vivid lands and the shards triple-lands are better than those.
Ajani Vengeant - 4. Port-locking a land is solid and can helix things along the way. I don't count on its final ability going off much if at all.
Bull Cerodon - 4. Hasty beats for 5. Lacks evasion, however, but it's almost a Rorix, which is still nice.
Sarkhan Vol - 4. Fires and Threaten are very nice, especially in a RG beats deck with tokens and/or sacrifice effects (Greater Gargadon) and the like.
Desolation Angel - 5. Cast this with kicker and win. Its body is a fantastic deal to go along with the Armageddon and likely will be the biggest thing around. Seals the board and wins it.
Blue: Glen Elendra Archmage
Maybe, I think the possibilities in cube is very high, since half of the cards are spells, and most are gamebreaking. (4/5) Tezzeret the Seeker
Depends on the artifact quantity in your cube. Mine has an insane amount of them so its a 5/5, but if you only have something like 20-25 artifacts in your cube, then (1-2/5) Clone
A blue answer to legends. Seems exciting as an answer, but I don't think this is good enough given the exceptional power of blue. and the lack of creatures kinda hurts its chances. (2/5) Flood
A nice card but not game breaking (2/5) Remove Soul
Not good enough given the power of the counterspells in most cubes. (1/5) Vedalken Shackles
Absolutely a game breaking artfiact. Must be in cube. (5/5) False Summoning
Same as Remove Soul. (1/5)
Red: Ashling the Pilgrim
A fine card, It may not do so well since the sweeping effects like Crater Hellion, Sulfurous Blast, Pyroclasm, Slice and Dice, Violent Eruption, and Fireball already in cube. (2/5) Keldon Champion
Maybe, but it weems like it would do so little in play. I talmost never gets the full 6 damage in, and if your just using it as a Barbed Lightning, it seems less than awesome. (1/5) Rorix Bladewing
This is a good man...er well dragon. I think the best finisher in a color that doesn't have many good finishers. (5/5) Hell's Thunder
Not all too impressed with this card, in cube it is worse than Firebolt, since it can't beat up creatures. Fault Line
Rolling Earthquake and some other things seem better, but this is definitely better than Earthquake. (2/5) Orcish Settlers
How unfun :). But I guess if you wanted to push this then it seems fine. (3-4/5) Jeska, Warrior Adept
She is the best pinger you can get, but She may not make the cut in most cubes. but being a 3 power first striker may put her over the edge. (3/5) Starstorm
This card is awesome. (4-5/5) Viashino Cutthroat
Same as Keldon Champion, just seems underwheling. (1/5) Crater Hellion
Second best finisher on color and just about the best board sweeper red has. (5/5) Ravenous Baboons Avalanche Riders and Fulminator Mage are better. (2/5)
Artifact: Quietus Spike
Very underwhelming. Deathtouch is pretty irrelevant unless you run a crapload of pingers. (2/5) Sigil of Distinction
Definitely going in my cube. Best card in SoA for limited. (4-5/5)
White: Elspeth, Knight-Errant
All of the planeswalkers are really good and auto includes in my cube. (5/5) Battlegrace Angel
She's in my cube, rivals Exalted Angel for usefulness. (4/5) Scourglass
Nevinyrral's Disk is much better, and in a color that already has a bunch of boardsweep this seems unnecessary. Akroma's Vengeance just seems better. (1/5)
Green: Mycoloth
Fine, this seems to be an option if you can't get you hands on a Deranged Hermit, but I may run both of them together. (4/5) Might of Old Krosa
Not that exciting. I have a green stompy theme and this just doesn't seem exciting to me. (1/5) Gift of the Gargantuan
Good on color draw. I would say it rivals Harmonize. Nets you 2 cards if you build your deck right 80% of the time. Harmonize
Green needs reach and this provides it. (4/5) Primal Command
I have it in mine. Has a wide range of effects that you would like to play all of them. Also seems like the best creature tutor in mono green for your money. (4-5/5) Imperiosaur
there are better effects for the cost, like Blastoderm and Ravenous Baloth. (2/5) Sylvan Safekeeper
I have it in mine, a very nice way to protect your stuff. (4/5) Timbermare
Not very exciting, but might be a good finisher in green. (3/5) Brooding Saurian
Good against the multiple Steal effects in cube, and has good stats to boot. (4/5)
Blue: Glen Elendra Archmage => Absolutly devastating Controle mirror cards. Really strong. Clone => Deal with legendary creatures, copy spoiler creatures. Really strong card Vedalken Shackles => One of the most essential pick for a good U/x contrôle to make your earlygame better. Can be too slow without enough acceleration compared to wrath effects.
Red: Hell's Thunder => Best Ball lightning like card you can include in a cube. Orcish Settlers => Really interesting card depending of your Land Destruction theme Starstorm => Instant pyroclasm effect, cyclable if useless in a matchup. Really strong card even if the RR cost can be a problem.
Artifact:
White: Elspeth, Knight-Errant => One of the best Planeswalker aviable, Strong WW high curve card Battlegrace Angel => One of the best UW controle finisher Scourglass => Was sceptic at the begining with this card, but it poved to be really strong, especially if your cube support Artefact prison theme, with Welder, and stax components.
Green: Gift of the Gargantuan => Proved to be one of the most interesting Card Advantage card in Green agressive strategy with Harmonize. Both are absolute must pick if you plan on going G aggro. Harmonize => See Above Primal Command => Another really good high curve card for G aggressive or Aggro-control strategies.
Black: Executioner's Capsule => Interesting Spot removal effect. Synergy with welder and Trinket mage really interesting Slaughter Pact => One of the best spot removal effect.
Land: Bant Panorama Esper Panorama Grixis Panorama Naya Panorama Jund Panorama
Everything that fetch a land without too much drawback should be inlcuded. Really perfect in a normal cube, can turn to be a little to slow in a full powered Cube, but overall, really good in my cube. Gold: Sarkhan Vol => Really interesting card against control for RG agressive strategies, or RB/g agressive strategies. Desolation Angel => Really strong effect (Armagguedon) on a Really interesting body. Really strong card.
Situationnal Card : Tezzeret the Seeker => depend of the artefact combo possibilities : Vault inclusion or not mainly.
Crater Hellion => Really depend of the number of free slots you get in Red. I actually really prefer Caldera Hellion, and if you got a slot for one more card, it could be a good inclusion Ravenous Baboons => depends of the non basic lands count of your cube. Really strong in mine, can be bad without enough good non basic lands
Cards i don’t like at all : Flood Remove Soul => Worth testing. Not enough creatures in my stack but can be good in a more balanced cube than mine. False Summoning
Quietus Spike Sigil of Distinction => Tested that as a Combo finish for deck that can produce alot of mana in a turn... Interesting and not dissmissed, still testing.
Ajani Vengeant =W It's not that bad, but proved to be the weakest planeswalker. Often comes online to late for his + ability to be revelant, and 1 helix isn't that excited for 2WR. The last ability is nice, but often, you should have win the game allready with a RW agressive deck before using it. Bull Cerodon
Glen Elendra Archmage: Unsure. I've never played with her. Seems good. I'd guess 3/5
Tezzeret the Seeker: Depends on the number of artifacts in your Cube and if a silver deck is viable. If so, 5/5; if not, 2-3/5.
Clone: 4/5. A nice utility creature.
Flood: 2/5.
Remove Soul: 3/5. Not amazing but solid.
Vedalken Shackles: 4/5. Not in my Cube, but in using it in a MUC deck, it's just brutal.
False Summoning: 3/5. Same as Remove Soul.
Red:
Ashling the Pilgrim: 2/5. I'd guess she would very rarely get to do a lot of damage.
Keldon Champion: 4/5. Great aggro card and good in burn decks, too.
Rorix Bladewing: 4/5. Great red finisher and reanimation target. Not a 5 because of restrictive mana cost.
Hell's Thunder: 3/5. Looks solid, but I haven't tested it.
Fault Line: 4/5. A better Earthquake at the cost of an additional R
Orcish Settlers: I'd guess 3/5 but I have no data.
Jeska, Warrior Adept: 2/5. I guess she's OK, but she looks underwhelming. I think red has better 4-drops.
Starstorm: 4/5. Mass removal is always good.
Viashino Cutthroat: 1/5. Too expensive for what it does.
Crater Hellion: 5/5. An all-star in my Cube. Wipes board and leaves a 6/6 body.
Ravenous Baboons: 2/5. 1 too expensive for my tastes. I'd rate it more highly if you wanted a strong LD theme in your cube.
Artifact:
Quietus Spike: 1/5. Too expensive.
Sigil of Distinction: 1/5. Too expensive.
White:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: 5/5. A really good planeswalker, but you don't usually play her for her ultimate ability.
Battlegrace Angel: 3/5. Decent control finisher, but I think there are better choices for the mana.
Scourglass: Depends on your artifact selection. Not as good as Nevvie's or Akroma's Vengeance. Probably a 2/5, but higher if you can draft a solid silver deck.
Green:
Mycoloth: 2/5. The potential for card disadvantage is pretty huge.
Might of Old Krosa: 3/5. Solid but not amazing.
Gift of the Gargantuan: 1/5. Totally meh. You will frequently see a terrific spell get placed on the bottom of your deck.
Harmonize: 4/5. Nothing else like it in green, it helps this color immensely.
Primal Command: 5/5. Always relevant.
Imperiosaur: 1/5. Nothing special and cost is restrictive.
Sylvan Safekeeper: 2/5, higher if you have lots of ways to recycle lands in your cube.
Timbermare: 3/5. Solid; a good aggro finisher.
Brooding Saurian: 1/5. I don't see a reason to run this.
Black:
Executioner's Capsule: 4/5. Nice Seal of Doom effect that can be tutored by Trinket Mage, Enlightened Tutor, and Tezzeret.
Slaughter Pact: 4/5. Almost free removal.
Land:
Bant Panorama, et. al. : 2/5. Only good if you don't have other land fetchers. Good in a large Cube that needs more lands.
Gold:
Ajani Vengeant: 5/5. All abilities relvant, although he does have low initial loyalty.
Bull Cerodon: 2/5. While he's a good creature, there are much better choices in RW.
Sarkhan Vol: 5/5. Again, all abilties are relevant; mostly he'll be used as two Threatens for 4CC which is pretty darn good.
Desolation Angel: 5/5. Obscene creature. Gives you a fatty and cripples your opponent's ability to deal with that fatty.
Now I'll read how everyone else rated these cards and see where we agree/disagree.
White
1. Elspeth 4/5
2. Battlegrace Angel 4/5
3. Scourglass 2/5 way better removal than this in a cube...
Green
1. Imperiosaur 4/5 (I should add this to mine)
2. Command 4/6
3. Mycoloth 3/5
4. Harmonize 4/5 (I know its strange for htis to be lower than mycolth as it is technically better but that creature can just win games if it sticks for a few turns)
5. Brooding Saurian 3/5
Glen Elendra Archmage is an awesome card and I think that you guys are underrating it. Think about it, you play it turn 5 and you still have counter mana open (asuming you have 5 lands and 2 of which produce blue). They kill it, so what? It still comes back beating in the air and able to counter another spell.
I hate ranting on message boards because it makes me feel so lame. Basically, if you drop this guy while you have even a slight board position and win. Drop him to gain board position if you don't have it. As long as you are not dying very soon, he will swing the game in your favor 9 times out of 10.
Maybe I am biased, but I love the thing.
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Currently playing: EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Between the six of you, you [B]couldn't agree[/B] on any one of them. After looking at others votes, does any of your votes change?
Some of you directly opposed the others and have rated some 4-5/5 nominees as 1-2/5. Do you still think you are right? Are there cards on this list that should be taken off? Are there cards on this list that only have one backer, but deserve more?
/devil's advocate
I know depending on the cube cards may have different places, so I leave it at your discretion to ague whatever point you think is the most relevant.
[B]Join in.[/B]
Its not to late to submit your votes. Exercises like these can help the whole community in new thinking and understanding of their own cube, so please join in.
Most of the cards listed I didn't even vote on because I either don't have them in my cube (Elspeth, Vedalken Shackles. I know, but its hard for me finding a foil one in AZ), or haven't had the chance to play it yet (Desolation Angel, Crater Hellion).
However, I know that these cards are fantastic and definitely be rated 4-5/5. The only vote that will change on mine is Rorix. He has never really worked out that great for me, but I hardly ever go heavy red, so I realy never play him. Although I do see how he can be an awesome finisher, especially if they are tapped out. I will change my vote to 4/5.
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I think your breakdown is missing Tezzeret of who i was the only one to give 4+/5.
You are correct! When I was formatting that post I had written out a special paragraph for Tezzeret who received situational reviews, it must have been deleted by accident. Thanks for bringing it back up, and I find your analysis to be convincing, and I am curious what others say.
Btw, I'd be interested why many people rank Sigil of Distinction so low. I seem to be the only one here on the forum who loves it. I don't get it. Saying that Sigil is to expensive is like saying that Fireball is too expensive imo. And Sigil has a way more relevant effect together with an evasive creature if i play it for like 5 mana. Compare it to Moldervine Cloak, an accepted cube card. Sigil seems better in every way to me.
Interesting point, but is 3 mana for +2/+2 on a creature worth it. Moldervine Cloak at least can be put onto a new creature if the first creature dies to give it another +3/+3 where as with Sigil of Distinction, when the first creature dies, it will only +1/+1 the next. After that, its dead.
Do you need a heavy mana investment in this card for it to be worth while?
Is it even playable at 2/3/4 mana?
You are correct! When I was formatting that post I had written out a special paragraph for Tezzeret who received situational reviews, it must have been deleted by accident. Thanks for bringing it back up, and I find your analysis to be convincing, and I am curious what others say.
Interesting point, but is 3 mana for +2/+2 on a creature worth it. Moldervine Cloak at least can be put onto a new creature if the first creature dies to give it another +2/+2 where as with Sigil of Distinction, when the first creature dies, it will only +1/+1 the next. After that, its dead.
Do you need a heavy mana investment in this card for it to be worth while?
Is it even playable at 2/3/4 mana?
It's normally playable at 5+, that's when you get good value out of it.
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I think that statement is also true for Fireball. Paying 5 Mana for a sorcery speed Flame Javelin is uninspiring at best. However, people find Fireball and it's ilk to be worth it because it offers serious rewards in the endgame. My question is, why wouldn't people see the same with Sigil?
To clarify: I am not knocking on Fireball here, Fireball's awesome. But so is Sigil imo.
When comparing Sigil to Moldervine Cloak, also keep in mind, that reequipping the Cloak also costs you a draw step and you can only do it when your creature dies. And you have to pay mana again. Tinking of it, i'd rate Cloak at 3/5 at best. More like 2/5.
Makes sense to me. My question is, is Fireball good as it is, not becuase its over powerful late game effect, but becuase it can second as early game removal?
Everything that fetch a land without too much drawback should be inlcuded. Really perfect in a normal cube, can turn to be a little to slow in a full powered Cube, but overall, really good in my cube.
I myself don't have a large enough cube to even consider including the Panoramas (I don't even run Terramorphic Expanse which is almost always better). However, even if I did, I believe they are too weak to run. The cube already has tons of mana fixing in Duals, Shocks, Pains (some cubes do), Fetches, Karoos, Vivids (some do), Signets, Talismans and other random color fixers. I think that the panoramas are by far the worst of all these fixers and therefore would rank them around 1.5/5.
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I myself don't have a large enough cube to even consider including the Panoramas (I don't even run Terramorphic Expanse which is almost always better). However, even if I did, I believe they are too weak to run. The cube already has tons of mana fixing in Duals, Shocks, Pains (some cubes do), Fetches, Karoos, Vivids (some do), Signets, Talismans and other random color fixers. I think that the panoramas are by far the worst of all these fixers and therefore would rank them around 1.5/5.
I think the best argument I have heard for the Panoramas is, they only take 5 slots up in the cube. 5 card slots for a full rainbows worth of mana fixing.
Vivid land comes in tapped which sets you behind 1 turn the turn it comes into play. On the second turn it is out you catch up to where you should be and now have the bonus of mana fixing. This is cool, but losing that tempo early game can really throw you off. Mid/Late game tying to make that top deck mana is also going to hurt.
Karoos - see above
The pain lands come in untapped (yes!) but you have to use 10 slots (boo!). These 10 lands will only be drafted and used by some one that happens to be in both of those colors.
Panorama lands only take 5 slots. Not only does this free 5 slots in your land count for variety, but the situation of some one opening a pack to find an unplayable mana fixer is decreased in half. So unlike pain you can run 5 and hit all the color combination and of course unlike Vivid and Karoos they can also produce mana as soon as you top deck them. The ability will always be played at EOT, and the draw back of fetching into play tapped will only effect you when you need immediate fixing.
Panorama have the same benefits as the good fetches in the sense that they 1. Shuffle 2. Thin 3. Mana fix 4. Respond to Land Destruction. Saying Vivids, Karoos and Pains are better, I think is overstated the their power and understating the level of the Panorama.
I think Panoramas have a place in some powered cube, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
-Fireball is better as it is early removal.
-Sigil is bad as you equip, in response kill your creature...
-Panoramas are way way too slow, Pains are infinitely better and karoos are great if you are say stuck on 3 lands it lets you play a 3 drop and next turn have 5 mana available.
I think that clears up all the arguments I wanted to put forward in as simple as possible way.
Ok what i meant was (depending on what it equipping) I can either kill your creature if you dont have another creature already in play, or wait for u to attack then kill it.
Either way you cant chump block a fireball and what Im trying to say is that fireball>>>sigil as it is so much more versitile.
-Panoramas are way way too slow, Pains are infinitely better and karoos are great if you are say stuck on 3 lands it lets you play a 3 drop and next turn have 5 mana available.
You say Panoramas are too slow, but they are faster than karoos. You can tap them for mana immediately unlike karoos, if you need to mana fix, you have to wait 1 turn, same as karoos. You gave a situation where karoos have a situational utility, just as i gave a situation (needing the mana now) where Panoramas have utility. IMO karoos and vivid lands are far too slow. Maybe Panoramas are too but as i said before they:
1. Shuffle
2. Thin
3. Mana fix
4. Respond to Targeting
5. Provide Immediate mana
6. Only take up 5 slots
Panoramas, Vivids and Karoos are some of the worst land mana fixers available but of the 3, I don't even understand how any one could argue that Panoramas don't provide the most utility.
I'm not saying they should be auto inclusions I just dont see how anyone thinks they are inferior to karoos or vivids. I also think they are being too quickly dismissed. Saying they are slow with no illustration is starting to get old. They aren't slow in the sense they get mana the same turn you play them. The only argument could be that they take 1 turn to mana fix, but then so do the 2 other example that have been brought up. So, how are the Panoramas if anything not faster than your other choices.
I don't run any of them.... So there. I would run the Panoramas over the others though. Because they search out three land types. That is really all I need to say.
My cube doesnt run karoos, vivids or panoramas as they just dont cut it.
Vivids are the best imo as you play it turn 1 and then you have mana fixing straight away are are even better for splashing colours due to the fact they can tap for coloured mana as standard. They would be my choice if anything, but as I said there are far far better lands out there to play (check my sig for my list).
Edit: Why do you think that standard decks run vivids and not panoramas....
Blue:
Red:
Artifact:
White:
Green:
Black:
Land:
Gold:
Rorix Bladewing - 3/5
Starstorm - 4/5
Battlegrace Angel - 4/5
Mycoloth - 4/5
Harmonize - 4/5
Ajani Vengeant - 3/5
If you want an expalanation for any of these, just ask. I am too tired to give one right now, but can leave them later.
EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Legacy: MUC, MBStax, Zoo/Goyf Sligh, Esperzoa (8SeaDrake.dec), WhiteWeenie
My Trade Thread
Tempe, AZ Cube
Tezzeret - 2. Way too limited, he usually becomes a 5 mana tutor for a signet or an equipment.
Shackles - 5. One of the cornerstones of blue, reusable control effects, hard for aggro to beat.
Remove Soul - 3/4. I haven't tried it, but it's a 2 mana counter which is good.
Clone - 3. Reuse 187 effects and goes nicely with Kamigawa dragons.
Flood - 1/2. I haven't tried it but it doesn't seem that good, too expensive. But, like I said, I haven't tried it. It seems to be only usable in mono U also.
Ashling the Pilgrim - 4/5. One of my favorite red creatures, I was surprised at how good Molten Hydra was and Ashling is a lot better. I don't use its "blow up the world" effect much as its ability is very versatile (permanent!) pump. Interacts nicely with things like Swell of Courage if you are running it.
Rorix - 5. One of the best finishers of all time. 6 hasty damage for 6, its only downside is its RRR casting cost.
Orcish Settlers - 4. An underrated card, it's more of a late game card that is seen as a suspend card. Killing half of your opponent's lands, even on a turn delay, often is game, especially for a control deck trying to achieve stability. Works even better if you can kill lands like bouncelands and lands like Library of Alexandria.
(I'll do the rest later when I've got more time.)
Executioner's Capsule - 1/2. I think that there's much better removal out there in black (edicts, terror, Shriekmaw, Bone Shredder, Terror.)
Timbermare - 1. A bad Lava Axe that isn't guaranteed, and is a pretty poor deal of a body for its cost and if it doesn't deal the last 5 damage, you're in for a world of hurt. There are much better cards in both the 4 and 6 drop slots.
Panoramas - 1. There are much better non basics out there as the only fetching basic lands kills their effectiveness. The "bad" mirage fetchlands, vivid lands and the shards triple-lands are better than those.
Ajani Vengeant - 4. Port-locking a land is solid and can helix things along the way. I don't count on its final ability going off much if at all.
Bull Cerodon - 4. Hasty beats for 5. Lacks evasion, however, but it's almost a Rorix, which is still nice.
Sarkhan Vol - 4. Fires and Threaten are very nice, especially in a RG beats deck with tokens and/or sacrifice effects (Greater Gargadon) and the like.
Desolation Angel - 5. Cast this with kicker and win. Its body is a fantastic deal to go along with the Armageddon and likely will be the biggest thing around. Seals the board and wins it.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Blue:
Glen Elendra Archmage
Maybe, I think the possibilities in cube is very high, since half of the cards are spells, and most are gamebreaking. (4/5)
Tezzeret the Seeker
Depends on the artifact quantity in your cube. Mine has an insane amount of them so its a 5/5, but if you only have something like 20-25 artifacts in your cube, then (1-2/5)
Clone
A blue answer to legends. Seems exciting as an answer, but I don't think this is good enough given the exceptional power of blue. and the lack of creatures kinda hurts its chances. (2/5)
Flood
A nice card but not game breaking (2/5)
Remove Soul
Not good enough given the power of the counterspells in most cubes. (1/5)
Vedalken Shackles
Absolutely a game breaking artfiact. Must be in cube. (5/5)
False Summoning
Same as Remove Soul. (1/5)
Red:
Ashling the Pilgrim
A fine card, It may not do so well since the sweeping effects like Crater Hellion, Sulfurous Blast, Pyroclasm, Slice and Dice, Violent Eruption, and Fireball already in cube. (2/5)
Keldon Champion
Maybe, but it weems like it would do so little in play. I talmost never gets the full 6 damage in, and if your just using it as a Barbed Lightning, it seems less than awesome. (1/5)
Rorix Bladewing
This is a good man...er well dragon. I think the best finisher in a color that doesn't have many good finishers. (5/5)
Hell's Thunder
Not all too impressed with this card, in cube it is worse than Firebolt, since it can't beat up creatures.
Fault Line
Rolling Earthquake and some other things seem better, but this is definitely better than Earthquake. (2/5)
Orcish Settlers
How unfun :). But I guess if you wanted to push this then it seems fine. (3-4/5)
Jeska, Warrior Adept
She is the best pinger you can get, but She may not make the cut in most cubes. but being a 3 power first striker may put her over the edge. (3/5)
Starstorm
This card is awesome. (4-5/5)
Viashino Cutthroat
Same as Keldon Champion, just seems underwheling. (1/5)
Crater Hellion
Second best finisher on color and just about the best board sweeper red has. (5/5)
Ravenous Baboons
Avalanche Riders and Fulminator Mage are better. (2/5)
Artifact:
Quietus Spike
Very underwhelming. Deathtouch is pretty irrelevant unless you run a crapload of pingers. (2/5)
Sigil of Distinction
Definitely going in my cube. Best card in SoA for limited. (4-5/5)
White:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
All of the planeswalkers are really good and auto includes in my cube. (5/5)
Battlegrace Angel
She's in my cube, rivals Exalted Angel for usefulness. (4/5)
Scourglass
Nevinyrral's Disk is much better, and in a color that already has a bunch of boardsweep this seems unnecessary. Akroma's Vengeance just seems better. (1/5)
Green:
Mycoloth
Fine, this seems to be an option if you can't get you hands on a Deranged Hermit, but I may run both of them together. (4/5)
Might of Old Krosa
Not that exciting. I have a green stompy theme and this just doesn't seem exciting to me. (1/5)
Gift of the Gargantuan
Good on color draw. I would say it rivals Harmonize. Nets you 2 cards if you build your deck right 80% of the time.
Harmonize
Green needs reach and this provides it. (4/5)
Primal Command
I have it in mine. Has a wide range of effects that you would like to play all of them. Also seems like the best creature tutor in mono green for your money. (4-5/5)
Imperiosaur
there are better effects for the cost, like Blastoderm and Ravenous Baloth. (2/5)
Sylvan Safekeeper
I have it in mine, a very nice way to protect your stuff. (4/5)
Timbermare
Not very exciting, but might be a good finisher in green. (3/5)
Brooding Saurian
Good against the multiple Steal effects in cube, and has good stats to boot. (4/5)
Black:
Executioner's Capsule
If you run Trinket Mage, you need to run this, if not then meh, Dark Banishing is better.
Slaughter Pact
Sure. Gives black a way to kill stuff even after tapping out. (4/5)
Land:
Bant Panorama
Esper Panorama
Grixis Panorama
Naya Panorama
Jund Panorama
Nope on all of them. (1/5)
Gold:
Ajani Vengeant
See Elspeth (5/5)
Bull Cerodon
Not very exciting (2/5)
Sarkhan Vol
See Elspeth (5/5)
Desolation Angel
Awesome card and if this hits with the kicker, the game is over. (5/5)
Thanks to spiderboy4 for the great avatar and sig from High Light Studios!
Blue:
Glen Elendra Archmage => Absolutly devastating Controle mirror cards. Really strong.
Clone => Deal with legendary creatures, copy spoiler creatures. Really strong card
Vedalken Shackles => One of the most essential pick for a good U/x contrôle to make your earlygame better. Can be too slow without enough acceleration compared to wrath effects.
Red:
Hell's Thunder => Best Ball lightning like card you can include in a cube.
Orcish Settlers => Really interesting card depending of your Land Destruction theme
Starstorm => Instant pyroclasm effect, cyclable if useless in a matchup. Really strong card even if the RR cost can be a problem.
Artifact:
White:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant => One of the best Planeswalker aviable, Strong WW high curve card
Battlegrace Angel => One of the best UW controle finisher
Scourglass => Was sceptic at the begining with this card, but it poved to be really strong, especially if your cube support Artefact prison theme, with Welder, and stax components.
Green:
Gift of the Gargantuan => Proved to be one of the most interesting Card Advantage card in Green agressive strategy with Harmonize. Both are absolute must pick if you plan on going G aggro.
Harmonize => See Above
Primal Command => Another really good high curve card for G aggressive or Aggro-control strategies.
Black:
Executioner's Capsule => Interesting Spot removal effect. Synergy with welder and Trinket mage really interesting
Slaughter Pact => One of the best spot removal effect.
Land:
Bant Panorama
Esper Panorama
Grixis Panorama
Naya Panorama
Jund Panorama
Everything that fetch a land without too much drawback should be inlcuded. Really perfect in a normal cube, can turn to be a little to slow in a full powered Cube, but overall, really good in my cube.
Gold:
Sarkhan Vol => Really interesting card against control for RG agressive strategies, or RB/g agressive strategies.
Desolation Angel => Really strong effect (Armagguedon) on a Really interesting body. Really strong card.
Situationnal Card :
Tezzeret the Seeker => depend of the artefact combo possibilities : Vault inclusion or not mainly.
Crater Hellion => Really depend of the number of free slots you get in Red. I actually really prefer Caldera Hellion, and if you got a slot for one more card, it could be a good inclusion
Ravenous Baboons => depends of the non basic lands count of your cube. Really strong in mine, can be bad without enough good non basic lands
Cards i don’t like at all :
Flood
Remove Soul => Worth testing. Not enough creatures in my stack but can be good in a more balanced cube than mine.
False Summoning
Ashling the Pilgrim
Keldon Champion
Rorix Bladewing
Fault Line
Jeska, Warrior Adept
Viashino Cutthroat
Quietus Spike
Sigil of Distinction => Tested that as a Combo finish for deck that can produce alot of mana in a turn... Interesting and not dissmissed, still testing.
Mycoloth
Might of Old Krosa
Imperiosaur
Sylvan Safekeeper
Timbermare
Brooding Saurian
Ajani Vengeant =W It's not that bad, but proved to be the weakest planeswalker. Often comes online to late for his + ability to be revelant, and 1 helix isn't that excited for 2WR. The last ability is nice, but often, you should have win the game allready with a RW agressive deck before using it.
Bull Cerodon
Glen Elendra Archmage: Unsure. I've never played with her. Seems good. I'd guess 3/5
Tezzeret the Seeker: Depends on the number of artifacts in your Cube and if a silver deck is viable. If so, 5/5; if not, 2-3/5.
Clone: 4/5. A nice utility creature.
Flood: 2/5.
Remove Soul: 3/5. Not amazing but solid.
Vedalken Shackles: 4/5. Not in my Cube, but in using it in a MUC deck, it's just brutal.
False Summoning: 3/5. Same as Remove Soul.
Red:
Ashling the Pilgrim: 2/5. I'd guess she would very rarely get to do a lot of damage.
Keldon Champion: 4/5. Great aggro card and good in burn decks, too.
Rorix Bladewing: 4/5. Great red finisher and reanimation target. Not a 5 because of restrictive mana cost.
Hell's Thunder: 3/5. Looks solid, but I haven't tested it.
Fault Line: 4/5. A better Earthquake at the cost of an additional R
Orcish Settlers: I'd guess 3/5 but I have no data.
Jeska, Warrior Adept: 2/5. I guess she's OK, but she looks underwhelming. I think red has better 4-drops.
Starstorm: 4/5. Mass removal is always good.
Viashino Cutthroat: 1/5. Too expensive for what it does.
Crater Hellion: 5/5. An all-star in my Cube. Wipes board and leaves a 6/6 body.
Ravenous Baboons: 2/5. 1 too expensive for my tastes. I'd rate it more highly if you wanted a strong LD theme in your cube.
Artifact:
Quietus Spike: 1/5. Too expensive.
Sigil of Distinction: 1/5. Too expensive.
White:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: 5/5. A really good planeswalker, but you don't usually play her for her ultimate ability.
Battlegrace Angel: 3/5. Decent control finisher, but I think there are better choices for the mana.
Scourglass: Depends on your artifact selection. Not as good as Nevvie's or Akroma's Vengeance. Probably a 2/5, but higher if you can draft a solid silver deck.
Green:
Mycoloth: 2/5. The potential for card disadvantage is pretty huge.
Might of Old Krosa: 3/5. Solid but not amazing.
Gift of the Gargantuan: 1/5. Totally meh. You will frequently see a terrific spell get placed on the bottom of your deck.
Harmonize: 4/5. Nothing else like it in green, it helps this color immensely.
Primal Command: 5/5. Always relevant.
Imperiosaur: 1/5. Nothing special and cost is restrictive.
Sylvan Safekeeper: 2/5, higher if you have lots of ways to recycle lands in your cube.
Timbermare: 3/5. Solid; a good aggro finisher.
Brooding Saurian: 1/5. I don't see a reason to run this.
Black:
Executioner's Capsule: 4/5. Nice Seal of Doom effect that can be tutored by Trinket Mage, Enlightened Tutor, and Tezzeret.
Slaughter Pact: 4/5. Almost free removal.
Land:
Bant Panorama, et. al. : 2/5. Only good if you don't have other land fetchers. Good in a large Cube that needs more lands.
Gold:
Ajani Vengeant: 5/5. All abilities relvant, although he does have low initial loyalty.
Bull Cerodon: 2/5. While he's a good creature, there are much better choices in RW.
Sarkhan Vol: 5/5. Again, all abilties are relevant; mostly he'll be used as two Threatens for 4CC which is pretty darn good.
Desolation Angel: 5/5. Obscene creature. Gives you a fatty and cripples your opponent's ability to deal with that fatty.
Now I'll read how everyone else rated these cards and see where we agree/disagree.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Blue
1. Shackles 5/5
2. Remove Soul / False Summoning 4/5
3. Clone 3/5
4. Archmage 3/5
5. Planeswalker 2/5
Red
1. Starstorm 5/5
2. Keldon Champion 3/5
3. Rorix 3/5
4. Crater Hellion 2/5
5. Babbons 2/5 (but Avalance Riders is better imo)
Artifact
1. Sigil 2/5
2. Spike 2/5
White
1. Elspeth 4/5
2. Battlegrace Angel 4/5
3. Scourglass 2/5 way better removal than this in a cube...
Green
1. Imperiosaur 4/5 (I should add this to mine)
2. Command 4/6
3. Mycoloth 3/5
4. Harmonize 4/5 (I know its strange for htis to be lower than mycolth as it is technically better but that creature can just win games if it sticks for a few turns)
5. Brooding Saurian 3/5
Black
1. Pact 4/5
2. Pact
3. Pact
4. Pact
5. Capsule 2/5
Land
None of them as they are all bad imo
I guess 1. Bant (1/5) tho then what ever as it doesnt matter as if 1 goes in all should.
Gold
1. Sarkhan 4/5
2. Ajani 4/5
3. Angel 3/5
4. Cerodon 2/5
Hope this helps you.
Trading
I hate ranting on message boards because it makes me feel so lame. Basically, if you drop this guy while you have even a slight board position and win. Drop him to gain board position if you don't have it. As long as you are not dying very soon, he will swing the game in your favor 9 times out of 10.
Maybe I am biased, but I love the thing.
EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Legacy: MUC, MBStax, Zoo/Goyf Sligh, Esperzoa (8SeaDrake.dec), WhiteWeenie
My Trade Thread
Tempe, AZ Cube
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
I'll assume that you rank these 4-5/5
I meant it how the others did it, but I wasn't very clear your post still works great in this format though, so thanks for your effort.
[B]The break down:[/B]
[B]Six[/B] of you have voted so far.
Only [B]one[/B] of you ranked these with a 4 or higher:
[B]Two[/B] of you ranked these with a 4 or higher:
[B]Three[/B] of you ranked these with a 4 or higher:
[B]Four[/B] of you ranked these with a 4 or higher.
[B]Five[/B] of you ranked these with 4 or higher:
[B]The Questions:[/B]
Between the six of you, you [B]couldn't agree[/B] on any one of them. After looking at others votes, does any of your votes change?
Some of you directly opposed the others and have rated some 4-5/5 nominees as 1-2/5. Do you still think you are right? Are there cards on this list that should be taken off? Are there cards on this list that only have one backer, but deserve more?
/devil's advocate
I know depending on the cube cards may have different places, so I leave it at your discretion to ague whatever point you think is the most relevant.
[B]Join in.[/B]
Its not to late to submit your votes. Exercises like these can help the whole community in new thinking and understanding of their own cube, so please join in.
Thanks for everyone's participation.
However, I know that these cards are fantastic and definitely be rated 4-5/5. The only vote that will change on mine is Rorix. He has never really worked out that great for me, but I hardly ever go heavy red, so I realy never play him. Although I do see how he can be an awesome finisher, especially if they are tapped out. I will change my vote to 4/5.
EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Legacy: MUC, MBStax, Zoo/Goyf Sligh, Esperzoa (8SeaDrake.dec), WhiteWeenie
My Trade Thread
Tempe, AZ Cube
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You are correct! When I was formatting that post I had written out a special paragraph for Tezzeret who received situational reviews, it must have been deleted by accident. Thanks for bringing it back up, and I find your analysis to be convincing, and I am curious what others say.
Interesting point, but is 3 mana for +2/+2 on a creature worth it. Moldervine Cloak at least can be put onto a new creature if the first creature dies to give it another +3/+3 where as with Sigil of Distinction, when the first creature dies, it will only +1/+1 the next. After that, its dead.
Do you need a heavy mana investment in this card for it to be worth while?
Is it even playable at 2/3/4 mana?
It's normally playable at 5+, that's when you get good value out of it.
Thanks to spiderboy4 for the great avatar and sig from High Light Studios!
Agreed. Which is my point, and seems to answer his statement of:
In order to gain worth while utility out of Sigil you are paying 5+ for it. I think this is why people find it too expensive.
Makes sense to me. My question is, is Fireball good as it is, not becuase its over powerful late game effect, but becuase it can second as early game removal?
Neo everyone else participating is in disagreement. Do you have an arguement on why you think the Panorama lands can work?
Will some one step up and back up Neo on this one, or does everyone hate these lands?
EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Legacy: MUC, MBStax, Zoo/Goyf Sligh, Esperzoa (8SeaDrake.dec), WhiteWeenie
My Trade Thread
Tempe, AZ Cube
I think the best argument I have heard for the Panoramas is, they only take 5 slots up in the cube. 5 card slots for a full rainbows worth of mana fixing.
Vivid land comes in tapped which sets you behind 1 turn the turn it comes into play. On the second turn it is out you catch up to where you should be and now have the bonus of mana fixing. This is cool, but losing that tempo early game can really throw you off. Mid/Late game tying to make that top deck mana is also going to hurt.
Karoos - see above
The pain lands come in untapped (yes!) but you have to use 10 slots (boo!). These 10 lands will only be drafted and used by some one that happens to be in both of those colors.
Panorama lands only take 5 slots. Not only does this free 5 slots in your land count for variety, but the situation of some one opening a pack to find an unplayable mana fixer is decreased in half. So unlike pain you can run 5 and hit all the color combination and of course unlike Vivid and Karoos they can also produce mana as soon as you top deck them. The ability will always be played at EOT, and the draw back of fetching into play tapped will only effect you when you need immediate fixing.
Panorama have the same benefits as the good fetches in the sense that they 1. Shuffle 2. Thin 3. Mana fix 4. Respond to Land Destruction. Saying Vivids, Karoos and Pains are better, I think is overstated the their power and understating the level of the Panorama.
I think Panoramas have a place in some powered cube, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
-Sigil is bad as you equip, in response kill your creature...
-Panoramas are way way too slow, Pains are infinitely better and karoos are great if you are say stuck on 3 lands it lets you play a 3 drop and next turn have 5 mana available.
I think that clears up all the arguments I wanted to put forward in as simple as possible way.
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Either way you cant chump block a fireball and what Im trying to say is that fireball>>>sigil as it is so much more versitile.
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You say Panoramas are too slow, but they are faster than karoos. You can tap them for mana immediately unlike karoos, if you need to mana fix, you have to wait 1 turn, same as karoos. You gave a situation where karoos have a situational utility, just as i gave a situation (needing the mana now) where Panoramas have utility. IMO karoos and vivid lands are far too slow. Maybe Panoramas are too but as i said before they:
1. Shuffle
2. Thin
3. Mana fix
4. Respond to Targeting
5. Provide Immediate mana
6. Only take up 5 slots
Panoramas, Vivids and Karoos are some of the worst land mana fixers available but of the 3, I don't even understand how any one could argue that Panoramas don't provide the most utility.
I'm not saying they should be auto inclusions I just dont see how anyone thinks they are inferior to karoos or vivids. I also think they are being too quickly dismissed. Saying they are slow with no illustration is starting to get old. They aren't slow in the sense they get mana the same turn you play them. The only argument could be that they take 1 turn to mana fix, but then so do the 2 other example that have been brought up. So, how are the Panoramas if anything not faster than your other choices.
Vivids are the best imo as you play it turn 1 and then you have mana fixing straight away are are even better for splashing colours due to the fact they can tap for coloured mana as standard. They would be my choice if anything, but as I said there are far far better lands out there to play (check my sig for my list).
Edit: Why do you think that standard decks run vivids and not panoramas....
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