That's awesome if it's true. Let's hope that this really works and that they get to working hard on it.
And, since he's going to sell for a $1 less than the price of gasoline, we should figure out a way to drop gas to $1/gallon. Then we get free vetroleum! Or even better, gas somehow finds a way below a dollar we make money for buying vetrol! -Jack
this is true...i have about 2/3 of a biology major and actually got the minor as well as a minor in food science. it goes along with a similar principal as BIOdesiel. Its just REALLY hard for a project like this to fight with the multi millions of the oil companies
Same idea but using animal byproducts.
I worked a lot on this in collage and learned that anything that contains hydrocarbons can be turned into oil, if you use enough heat and pressure there has been a working Thermal Depolymerization plant in Carthage, Missouri for about 5 years now that I helped build. This is the technology of the future you can recycle 99% of all human waste with this from plastics to restraunt trash.
JimmyOlsen: I remember reading about that in an older copy of Discover Magazine. I'm surprised it's still going, tbh.
I think the idea is definitely something that should be looked into, if nothing else.
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Its just REALLY hard for a project like this to fight with the multi millions of the oil companies
Really? Cheap crude oil that burns clean without having to deal with OPEC and you think the oil companies would fight it? I would think that's their shining beacon of hope.
the problem I see with this new gas, is the same the new bio diesel has. You are using crops that people need. Right now they are using bi-products of a farm, but how are they going to supply just the entire US population on this. I don't think there is enough bi-products of farms across America to feed America's oil need
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no, there isn't nearly enough farm waste by-product to fuel america's growing oil need.
However, if each town had its own oil buy-product energy generator, then small towns would become self suffcient, using their own waste byproducts to fuel their vehicles.
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no, there isn't nearly enough farm waste by-product to fuel america's growing oil need.
Sure, there isn't enough 'farm waste byproduct', or whatever it is precisely, at least this biofuel theoretically reduces greenhouse gas emissions, thereby slowing down exacerbating the enhanced greenhouse effect, and the need for foreign fuel.
the problem I see with this new gas, is the same the new bio diesel has. You are using crops that people need. Right now they are using bi-products of a farm, but how are they going to supply just the entire US population on this. I don't think there is enough bi-products of farms across America to feed America's oil need
Well, that could be beside the point; this biofuel could simply be a cheaper, greener alternative to use until country-wide biofuel becomes a feasible option.
When that's reached, then there's the politics, I imagine.
Really? Cheap crude oil that burns clean without having to deal with OPEC and you think the oil companies would fight it? I would think that's their shining beacon of hope.
That's rather hopeful.
"Cleaner", not "clean"; that is, if you're looking at the whole process.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't, or many a year ago didn't, Brazil have this sort of thing going on?
Really? Cheap crude oil that burns clean without having to deal with OPEC and you think the oil companies would fight it? I would think that's their shining beacon of hope.
You'd be surprised at the ways big corporations think*, I fear.
It feels like we're swarming with miracle breakthrough alternate energy source stories that just need that extra spark of funding. I'm a bit skeptical... but it's great if it's true. I do worry that this may become the next ethanol where the crops are ACTUALLY being used to make the fuel. Still, the article claims it's all from fertilizer wastes so meh...
It feels like we're swarming with miracle breakthrough alternate energy source stories that just need that extra spark of funding. I'm a bit skeptical... but it's great if it's true. I do worry that this may become the next ethanol where the crops are ACTUALLY being used to make the fuel. Still, the article claims it's all from fertilizer wastes so meh...
Actually, your concerns are probably right on the ball. If the agricultural waste is not high enough to meet the demands for this product, we may find that people are creating agricultural waste to do so.
Although, this is apparently very clean in its burning. I read that ethanol was actually worse for the environment, although I'm not sure if that was the burning or the amount you need to do to make it.
It feels like we're swarming with miracle breakthrough alternate energy source stories that just need that extra spark of funding. I'm a bit skeptical... but it's great if it's true. I do worry that this may become the next ethanol where the crops are ACTUALLY being used to make the fuel. Still, the article claims it's all from fertilizer wastes so meh...
There's several other issues too:
What will be the replacement for compost?
If ethanol is not feasible because the lack of crops available, and that was cutting fuel not replacing it entirely, then how much greater volume does this demand?
It may be a good additional source for oil, and replace some foreign oil with domestic, it certainly doesn't sound like a realistic solution. It does sound like a decent help though, and if the process is simple, it could lower food prices by letting farmers create their own fuel from spent compost.
Although, this is apparently very clean in its burning.
Didn't you say this earlier?
I read that ethanol was actually worse for the environment, although I'm not sure if that was the burning or the amount you need to do to make it.
Honestly, what can be worse than depleting finite, non-renewable, non-green fuels, and causing irrevocable damage to the lithosphere?
With the combustion of petroleum, you're liberating God-knows-how many tons of carbon dioxide; with the combustion of biofuel ethanol, you're merely liberating the carbon dioxide absorbed by the plants (when they photosynthesise), and, taking into account the whole process, there's a bit from running the machines (harvesters, etc.) and such, or so I'd imagine.
[Pardon me for my ignorance; admittedly, I don't my best to keep au fait with overseas matters, but, to not seem absolutely lost, I do a little research.]
There's several other issues too:
What will be the replacement for compost?
I honestly have no idea, but how great would it be to practically use landfill and all that stuff no one's gonna touch or use as fuels? =p
If ethanol is not feasible because the lack of crops available, and that was cutting fuel not replacing it entirely, then how much greater volume does this demand?
Mmm... just as a note, 100% ethanol is not only unsound for most motor vehicle's engines, but an ethanol-petrol blend is apparently more efficient.
Dunno how it is in the US, or elsewhere but here for that matter; but, country-wide, we have a 15% ethanol-85% petrol mix here... as well as a 100% ethanol petrol station, but that's a one-off thing, haha.
It may be a good additional source for oil, and replace some foreign oil with domestic, it certainly doesn't sound like a realistic solution.
That's what I said; it'll at least reduce the need for foreign oil.
At the moment, it's not a realistic solution; but with the price of oil per gallon on the rise, money will invested into trying to make the most out of ethanol. In time, be it as a result of need or want, ethanol as a replacement will become more a reality than an idle dream.
I always thought oil was so damn good, because you essentially had multiple acres of forests/crops in one barrel (made compact by countless years of huge pressure), multiple acres you can use for other stuff at the same time (since the forests are mashed into some cavern underground). So now, if you want to burn recently dead biomatter as fuel, you'll need those acres of forests to equal one barrel of oil. It will face the same problems as any biofuel, only now you're burning unusable stuff. It's useful, but no full solution. And Ahasver's compost comment also stands.
Not just forests, crops, and plants, btw; organic matter, including animals and protoctists, e.g. zooplankton and algae.
No pollution involved also seems very sketchy.
I'm going to wreck the moment and be a doubting Thomas; till that happens and there's evidence thereof, I'll say that's impossible.
Seriously though, I cannot envisage how that is possible; it'd, like, totally defy the laws of physics (conservation of energy, mayhap?).
Ethanol needs to be made from things other than corn; One thing our debate group (alternative energy is this years topic) has found is Switchgrass...if I remember, it has a higher energy yeild than corn does. It also does pretty much nothing and is all over the place.
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These people are attempting something amazing. A fuel source like this, while understandably skeptical in the long run, really makes me appreciate that at least some people are trying to better the world.
Honestly, what can be worse than depleting finite, non-renewable, non-green fuels, and causing irrevocable damage to the lithosphere?
How about taking edible food out of starving people's mouths at the same time?
Quote from Magick Mack »
I'm going to wreck the moment and be a doubting Thomas; till that happens and there's evidence thereof, I'll say that's impossible.
Seriously though, I cannot envisage how that is possible; it'd, like, totally defy the laws of physics (conservation of energy, mayhap?).
True, they're probably just exaggerating. But I'm sure there's much less pollution due to higher efficiency.
How about taking edible food out of starving people's mouths at the same time?
I see what you've done there, MajoraX.
The comment I was responding to was not regarding impact on a holistic, or even societal, level. It was the environment; as big an impact as people play in shaping (and destroying) it, we are not the environment itself.:teach:
Also, no big deal; oh, it's just people, and cost of produce will, I suppose, just rise.
True, they're probably just exaggerating. But I'm sure there's much less pollution due to higher efficiency.
Yeah, they probably are 'just exaggerating'.
They shouldn't, however.
On a sidenote; hey, 'sup?
Also, it's "Magic Mage", not "Magick Mack". How on earth could you have bastardised my handle in that manner?
*sadface*
Quote from Keifru »
Ethanol needs to be made from things other than corn; One thing our debate group (alternative energy is this years topic) has found is Switchgrass...if I remember, it has a higher energy yeild than corn does. It also does pretty much nothing and is all over the place.
Yeah... so, apparently Wikipedia, or perhaps whatever sources it got its info from, say switchgrass is a good candidate as a subsitute for corn.
Considering switchgrass isn't for human consumption and it doesn't appear to have all that many uses, I think it's rather good. Furthermore, you get more bang for your buck; on a per-unit-mass basis, it produces more energy, which is pretty nifty.
Quote from Madding »
These people are attempting something amazing. A fuel source like this, while understandably skeptical in the long run, really makes me appreciate that at least some people are trying to better the world.
... haha, "better the world" sounds rather naive.:p
But anyhow, these people might be, yes, bettering the environment and people's pockets at the Bowser; but, in my opinion, it's comparatively - that is, compared to other causes and goals, including human rights, egalitarianism, and all that - a small deal.
(Lol, perhaps I'm an idealist?)
You'd be surprised at the ways big corporations think*, I fear.
QFT. The problem is that these corporations have long term contracts as well as major facilities set up to do things the way we do things now. Switching over involves the expense of developing the new technology, developing an efficient way to deal with the new technology, training a workforce to use the new technology, and building the facilities thatuse the new technology. This means a lot of overhead and is an automatic turnoff for most companies.
This is seriously awesome. I hope something comes of this and it doesn't get swept under the rug or delayed unnecesarilly.
And, since he's going to sell for a $1 less than the price of gasoline, we should figure out a way to drop gas to $1/gallon. Then we get free vetroleum! Or even better, gas somehow finds a way below a dollar we make money for buying vetrol! -Jack
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Same idea but using animal byproducts.
I worked a lot on this in collage and learned that anything that contains hydrocarbons can be turned into oil, if you use enough heat and pressure there has been a working Thermal Depolymerization plant in Carthage, Missouri for about 5 years now that I helped build. This is the technology of the future you can recycle 99% of all human waste with this from plastics to restraunt trash.
The next gasoline is probably just going to be a more efficient mining technique of gasoline.
But he's using farm waste products - presumably the land is being put to good use growing food.
I think the idea is definitely something that should be looked into, if nothing else.
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Really? Cheap crude oil that burns clean without having to deal with OPEC and you think the oil companies would fight it? I would think that's their shining beacon of hope.
However, if each town had its own oil buy-product energy generator, then small towns would become self suffcient, using their own waste byproducts to fuel their vehicles.
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Well, that could be beside the point; this biofuel could simply be a cheaper, greener alternative to use until country-wide biofuel becomes a feasible option.
When that's reached, then there's the politics, I imagine.
That's rather hopeful.
"Cleaner", not "clean"; that is, if you're looking at the whole process.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't, or many a year ago didn't, Brazil have this sort of thing going on?
You'd be surprised at the ways big corporations think*, I fear.
* Or rather, don't.
Actually, your concerns are probably right on the ball. If the agricultural waste is not high enough to meet the demands for this product, we may find that people are creating agricultural waste to do so.
Although, this is apparently very clean in its burning. I read that ethanol was actually worse for the environment, although I'm not sure if that was the burning or the amount you need to do to make it.
There's several other issues too:
What will be the replacement for compost?
If ethanol is not feasible because the lack of crops available, and that was cutting fuel not replacing it entirely, then how much greater volume does this demand?
It may be a good additional source for oil, and replace some foreign oil with domestic, it certainly doesn't sound like a realistic solution. It does sound like a decent help though, and if the process is simple, it could lower food prices by letting farmers create their own fuel from spent compost.
In the end a good technology, with limited use.
**** Yeah! Spam!
Honestly, what can be worse than depleting finite, non-renewable, non-green fuels, and causing irrevocable damage to the lithosphere?
With the combustion of petroleum, you're liberating God-knows-how many tons of carbon dioxide; with the combustion of biofuel ethanol, you're merely liberating the carbon dioxide absorbed by the plants (when they photosynthesise), and, taking into account the whole process, there's a bit from running the machines (harvesters, etc.) and such, or so I'd imagine.
[Pardon me for my ignorance; admittedly, I don't my best to keep au fait with overseas matters, but, to not seem absolutely lost, I do a little research.]
I honestly have no idea, but how great would it be to practically use landfill and all that stuff no one's gonna touch or use as fuels? =p
Mmm... just as a note, 100% ethanol is not only unsound for most motor vehicle's engines, but an ethanol-petrol blend is apparently more efficient.
Dunno how it is in the US, or elsewhere but here for that matter; but, country-wide, we have a 15% ethanol-85% petrol mix here... as well as a 100% ethanol petrol station, but that's a one-off thing, haha.
That's what I said; it'll at least reduce the need for foreign oil.
At the moment, it's not a realistic solution; but with the price of oil per gallon on the rise, money will invested into trying to make the most out of ethanol. In time, be it as a result of need or want, ethanol as a replacement will become more a reality than an idle dream.
Amen to this assessment.:)
Not just forests, crops, and plants, btw; organic matter, including animals and protoctists, e.g. zooplankton and algae.
I'm going to wreck the moment and be a doubting Thomas; till that happens and there's evidence thereof, I'll say that's impossible.
Seriously though, I cannot envisage how that is possible; it'd, like, totally defy the laws of physics (conservation of energy, mayhap?).
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How about taking edible food out of starving people's mouths at the same time?
True, they're probably just exaggerating. But I'm sure there's much less pollution due to higher efficiency.
The comment I was responding to was not regarding impact on a holistic, or even societal, level. It was the environment; as big an impact as people play in shaping (and destroying) it, we are not the environment itself.:teach:
Also, no big deal; oh, it's just people, and cost of produce will, I suppose, just rise.
Yeah, they probably are 'just exaggerating'.
They shouldn't, however.
On a sidenote; hey, 'sup?
Also, it's "Magic Mage", not "Magick Mack". How on earth could you have bastardised my handle in that manner?
*sadface*
Yeah... so, apparently Wikipedia, or perhaps whatever sources it got its info from, say switchgrass is a good candidate as a subsitute for corn.
Considering switchgrass isn't for human consumption and it doesn't appear to have all that many uses, I think it's rather good. Furthermore, you get more bang for your buck; on a per-unit-mass basis, it produces more energy, which is pretty nifty.
... haha, "better the world" sounds rather naive.:p
But anyhow, these people might be, yes, bettering the environment and people's pockets at the Bowser; but, in my opinion, it's comparatively - that is, compared to other causes and goals, including human rights, egalitarianism, and all that - a small deal.
(Lol, perhaps I'm an idealist?)
QFT. The problem is that these corporations have long term contracts as well as major facilities set up to do things the way we do things now. Switching over involves the expense of developing the new technology, developing an efficient way to deal with the new technology, training a workforce to use the new technology, and building the facilities thatuse the new technology. This means a lot of overhead and is an automatic turnoff for most companies.
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