(I wasn't sure whether this should go in the Water Cooler or in here, but I feel like we'll get a much better discussion on this board)
While it goes without saying that our generation (to give that comment context, I'm 21) and younger generations make use of computers (and the internet specifically) much more often than our parents do. But I've noticed (in my parents anyway, my mother specifically) a sort of stigma/fear regarding computers. Here's a specific example that I just experienced this yesterday and today to explain what I'm talking about:
I'm a senior in college, and I go to school about 1.5 hours away from my parents house. This week is fall break, and I'm spending it at my parents house. I'm their oldest child, and its still not sunk into their heads that I'm an adult. They miss me and want to spend time with me, so I decided to spend the week with them.
Well, to put it bluntly, my parents are boring. When they have free time, 999 times out of 1000, they watch TV. They don't really have many/any friends outside of the family, and watching TV is basically the only thing they do for fun.
But I don't watch TV very often...at least not physically on TV. Video games? Sure. Video/TV on the internet/computer? Check. It's pretty simple, really -there's usually not much on that I actually want to watch.
So I've been home since Sunday now and I'm already bored out of my mind. Anyone and everyone who I know here in my hometown are away at school. I decided to leave my Gamecube at school (which I'm now regretting), so I've spent a good amount of time online: streaming TV, reading news and forums like this one, deckbuilding & playing Magic via MWS, listening to music via Pandora.
Last night I think I began surfing/watching/listening/reading online around 3pm, stopped for dinner, and then continued for the evening until I went to bed around 11. As my mother went to sleep (my parents' room is right next to mine), she said angrily to me from her room "Okay, you've been on that now for WAAY TOO LONG". Even though I was pretty pissed, I didn't really say anything in response. Now this afternoon (I guess I've been on for 3-4 hours or so today), she said something very similar to what she said last night. The conversation continued something like this:
Me: There's nothing else to do.
Mom: So? Find something. See what's on TV.
It amazes me that here hatred for computers runs so deep that she'd actually encourage me to sit down on a couch and watch TV instead of being on a computer.
It's just so damn illogical...has anyone else has similar experiences?
She might be worried that you are watching the pornography. My aunt basically thinks of her sons' computers as porno machines and loathes them accordingly.
She might be worried that you are watching the pornography. My aunt basically thinks of her sons' computers as porno machines and loathes them accordingly.
Jace on the other hand gives you card advantage for no life cost. On the contrary, Jace can actually take some damage for you. I'd think that makes him better than Arena.
I have a hard enough time explaining to my Grandma how to turn her cell-phone on.
Grandma: I don't even know how to turn this silly thing on!
Me: Well, theres a big green button on there that says 'ON'.
Grandma: I'm too old for these newfangled phones Chronoplasm.
Me: It's not that hard. First just press the 'ON' button.
Grandma: Which one is that?
Me: It's the big green button that says 'ON'.
Grandma: Where is it?
Me: It's right there on the front.
Grandma: Oh. You know so much about these gadgets.
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Heh, my grandpa loves his computer. He may be getting on but he still has his engineer instnicts, I guess. Show him how to do something and he'll get it pretty quickly. He does e-mail, surfing, photo uploads, he listens to the BBC on the internet radio. My parents are pretty good in that respect- my dad has a crackberry and my mom uses lots of e-mail and such for work.
I think for most people it's just an unwillingness to learn- they've decided they don't understand it and they just ignore any attempt to make them think otherwise.
Yep. My dad's a pretty smart guy- came to America w/ almost no English, taught it to himself, runs a pretty successful construction company, etc. But I swear to god I've had to explain the concept of "cut and paste" to him at least twenty times.
My mom is under the impression that computers cause brain cancer.
I had a similar problem with my parents awhile back. The thing is that even though the computer and the tv are virtually the same, what bothered them most was while I was there I was not hanging out with them instead. So instead of watching tv in the family room with them, they where getting upset cause I'd watch tv/web surf/and do photochops on the computer by myself. Try to spend a couple hours with them each day, I know, it will be boring, but we all have to make scarifies;)
Obviously the whole idea is hit or miss, generally speaking, because there are plenty of older generation people who are smart, up to date with technology and current customs or norms, and such. However, it's still very true frequently that they do not adapt whatsoever, and have a very narrow view. My family is exactly the same about computers, and my dad is a PROGRAMMER. They don't spend all their time on the computer, and to some degree they have been right that it's better to get off the computer and do something (because honestly, as fun as it is to waste time online, there are other things to do in ADDITION to it), but often it's the illogical reasoning and times that they choose to push this agenda that makes it completely cracked, to me.
Specifically, it's moments when you can see that the basis of their argument against what you are doing (whether it is related to culture or technology) is not based in fact, reasoning, or logic, that really get me.
Then again, I was thrown out of my house for dating a woman I met online (technological difference of generations), who was also older than me (cultural difference of generations), and now my family has done basically everything but disown me, unless I leave her. I may be a bit biased as a result.
Lich's Mirror has no effect if you concede the game. If you concede, you'll lose.
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I read that and all I could think was that somewhere, at a PTQ or Prerelease or maybe even Worlds, some dude with schizophrenia arguing with himself about conceding caused an Oracle update.
It amazes me that here hatred for computers runs so deep that she'd actually encourage me to sit down on a couch and watch TV instead of being on a computer.
This wins the Sign of the Times award.
@Darius: That's a bummer. My parents are stodgy old farts who accused me of being a pedophile just for playing and judging Magic tournaments. So I expected the absolute worst reaction when I went to tell them I met my fiance online. Far from it, we actually were able to word it so that both the age difference (about 7 years) and the sketchy way we met (in a game design forum) were secondary. But I had to be very very careful. And my older sister still doesn't approve, she fancies herself the only "normal" person in the family and heaps scorn and condescension on anything that smacks of "geek" culture. (She dumped a guy in college for being a Magic geek...I came over to visit them one day and saw him sorting cards on the den floor, piles and piles of them. She was sitting watching TV and had her back turned to him. It was a weird dynamic.)
It's not just generational. I'm a big online gamer and love technology, but won't stoop so low as to make a Myspace or Facebook page. Bleh, it just seems so immature and icky.
@envying time with you: It's a lot easier to geek out for hours on end because I've left home and live ~3000 miles away from them.
Even if he is looking at porn, I think he's an adult and has full right to do so.
And yeah, it's funny how old generations don't get technology at all. For example, none of the math teachers at my school know how to work the graphing caculators, even when it's a part of the subject they're teaching. For example, my statistics teacher did not know how to have r (correlation) calculated with the linear regression line on the TI-83 even though he had it on his own calculator. It was a really sad sight. O yeah, and even more funny was that he didn't know that you could zoom out. That was very stupid. If he knows how to zoomSTAT, you'd think he'd know about the zoomOUT option.
Well ... I'd say that I have about the basic level of computer literacy that everyone in my generation has (20 years old). But even though it often seems to me that I'm at the very bottom of the curve when it comes to technology (I can't figure out how to do anything on a Mac to save my life, for instance), I'm a genius to my parents. My mother especially ... I've had to explain things like double-clicking. I think it comes down to a cultural thing. People in our generation don't necessarily have any sort of special, automatic computer intuition that allows them to automactically understand technology, it's just that internet culture is so big now that we spend a lot of our time on the computer and thus naturally understand it better than people who rarely use a computer.
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I’m some who would probably fall into your parent’s age group (I’m 36 and have and 18 &19 year old step sons). A few things jump out at me, first, if you are 21 then why oh why are you living at home??? If you don’t like that your mom treats you like a child, then move out. Second, I think any new technology has an acceptance curve. Airplanes, cell phone, computers or whatever it is Older generations will always be less in inclined to accept new technology then younger ones are. People generally just stick to what they are familiar with. FWIW I use the internet all the time and would normally rather be playing a game or surfing over watching 99% of what’s on TV. My parents use it computer less them me but still do check email, go to IMDB, check their blockbuster queue etc. My Grand Parents use it even less so (barely at all).
I’m some who would probably fall into your parent’s age group (I’m 36 and have and 18 &19 year old step sons). A few things jump out at me, first, if you are 21 then why oh why are you living at home??? If you don’t like that your mom treats you like a child, then move out. Second, I think any new technology has an acceptance curve. Airplanes, cell phone, computers or whatever it is Older generations will always be less in inclined to accept new technology then younger ones are. People generally just stick to what they are familiar with. FWIW I use the internet all the time and would normally rather be playing a game or surfing over watching 99% of what’s on TV. My parents use it computer less them me but still do check email, go to IMDB, check their blockbuster queue etc. My Grand Parents use it even less so (barely at all).
In his post he mentions that it's break and he's spending it there.
I've come across this some as well and it really was about time spent with my family. Once I got a laptop and started sitting in the living room with them they pretty much stopped talking about it.
In his post he mentions that it's break and he's spending it there.
I've come across this some as well and it really was about time spent with my family. Once I got a laptop and started sitting in the living room with them they pretty much stopped talking about it.
Haha, I guess I really am the unlucky guy this time. My family makes a huge deal of it if I even want to use the internet for a couple minutes on their computer when I visit. It's really funny to me, how important, relevant, and useful the internet is, coupled with how much they hate/ignore/fear it.
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Lich's Mirror has no effect if you concede the game. If you concede, you'll lose.
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I read that and all I could think was that somewhere, at a PTQ or Prerelease or maybe even Worlds, some dude with schizophrenia arguing with himself about conceding caused an Oracle update.
In his post he mentions that it's break and he's spending it there.
I've come across this some as well and it really was about time spent with my family. Once I got a laptop and started sitting in the living room with them they pretty much stopped talking about it.
OH, missed that sorry. Maybe I'm just frustrated at my own kids who seem to have no desire to move out (don't want to threadjack so I won't go into any details).
Using a laptop seems like a nice compromise, do they have wireless or can you just run a long cable?
My father and most of his freinds have learned helplessness. They see the computer as a mystery inside of an enigma and cannot think about it any other way. The moment the smallest error comes up, he immediately calls me. I walk in and press "ok" and leave. He stops me, inquires about the error. Then the very next time it happens, he calls me. All his friends call me for the smallest of problems.
He won't do anything but check travel deals, so he knows nothing about it. He knows nothing about, so he won't do anything on it but check travel deals. He spent 1000 dollars on it to check travel deals and listen to an audio bible. 1000 dollars to hear a talking Bible and he calls me lazy.
I've had pretty interesting relationships with my older generations in this regard, as my father worked for the phone company as the internet became a household commodity. He was tinkering on it while I was in early gradeschool. For a good while, he surpassed me in computer knowledge. As I began spending more time on it, I learned faster due to a greater interest, but he still is fairly progressive. My mother, on the other hand, was pretty much a Luddite, initially. However, I have taught her many things, and so she does use the comp at an acceptable level now.
What I have noticed is the following: Not restricted to adults, people in general seem to not want to learn how to use a computer more than they have to. They seem to glorify many of the mechanizations of the device. Now, I have always found the computer fairly intuitive, and when I don't understand something I seek to learn how to do it. However, even many of my peers refuse to learn how to solve problems, rather they default to asking help. Many of my peers simply use the computer for aim, facebook, and typing assignments.
However, as age progresses, the elder generations seem to refuse to learn how to use devices much more. This is probably because they are fearful of change; humans in general tend to fear change rather than embrace it.
To this end, adults don't understand the implications of the internet, and refuse to analyze the change. They therefore see it as a wall, and seek not to accept it. Therefore, fostered in technology, we, being the younger generation, and among that generation the more savvy (I will assume that people using this forum likely, for the most part, fall into that category) cannot perceive why they will not accept our norm, while they cannot perceive why we would deviate so much from their norms.
TVs have a very simple user interface, to put it bluntly. Luddites, using the term lightly, actively deny their ability to grow from this, and therefore consent to it. However, seeking to create a common society from what the perceive as their norm and our deviation. Unwilling to believe that they are anything but unable to deviate likewise, they seek to counter the deviation (a rather large generalization, but we are talking in generalizations here).
This explains why elder generations both seek to maintain their norms, which were established by organic principles that existed prior to the microchip, and to do so violate our norms, who's principles were developed to coincide with the changing technological environment.
I believe that if one wishes to maintain their computer usage, they need to slowly and carefully introduce our subculture to the "older generations". Rather than submerge them, ease them in. Start with something they can understand and use, like imdb or amazon, and then progress towards ebay, get them paypal, etc. Show them internet radio, and you may eventually be able to share in the interest rather than fight over it.
I find that laptops, as advised, tend to bridge the gap in an alternate fashion. As long as you interact with your parents, they should be satisfied. If what I said is true to any degree, they are simply seeking solidarity with what they perceive to be an ever deviating subculture. By interacting with them, you are showing them that you are not going to abandon their perceived norms and values, while you can still engage in your norms and values as perpetuated by your technological environment. However, they will still perceive technology as alien. I maintain that the best approach is to introduce technology to them slowly, and you may at least allow them to gain acceptance of a different lifestyle.
While it goes without saying that our generation (to give that comment context, I'm 21) and younger generations make use of computers (and the internet specifically) much more often than our parents do. But I've noticed (in my parents anyway, my mother specifically) a sort of stigma/fear regarding computers. Here's a specific example that I just experienced this yesterday and today to explain what I'm talking about
....
Well, to put it bluntly, my parents are boring. When they have free time, 999 times out of 1000, they watch TV. They don't really have many/any friends outside of the family, and watching TV is basically the only thing they do for fun.
The question you have to ask them is - what happens when the TV goes off? I mean...permanently. Louise's parents were like that and my mum was like that but having a stimulating career like politics when I went into "hibernation" - two years at home, basically, because there was a vendetta going against me and I wasn't even allowed back into parliament to do my job 1999-2001 - I needed something else to do while still getting paid. After a month or so of moping around - and yes, looking up porn on the computer and getting under my wife's feet - I enrolled on a computer course to polish my graphic skills and learn more about their use. Louise's mum and dad immediately yell for her - or they did before she moved in with me - when they need help with the computer, but she like most people doesn't know how to interfere with its workings, just use it properly. Sandra - my first wife; she still lives with me though - finds the computer just as complicated but has a better social life and a less demanding career (the odd bit of modelling - she was on the cover of Vogue before she married me; she still does the odd catalogue, at 66 she is still half made out of plastic and thus is still attractive to the photographers even if she treated me in the last months of our marriage as her son not her husband).
I think it probably relates to how busy your parents are and how they learn. A lot of people I know in politics still like to write things by hand and get their secretaries to type them up, and they all go into the City when they retire (I HATE the idea myself, I'm not in this for the money), so they lose a chance to educate themselves about using invaluable tools like computers and the internet. I do still like pen and paper to draft things but by the time I was in government we were each issued with computers and when I left the Home Office in 1997 I was using (and abusing) email and the internet...I'll leave how to your imagination but the bit about porn-machines is true and given I was under considerable stress and living apart from my wife who preferred it down in my seaside constituency to the bright lights of London it is obvious what I used it for. ; 9
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But I don't watch TV very often...at least not physically on TV. Video games? Sure. Video/TV on the internet/computer? Check. It's pretty simple, really -there's usually not much on that I actually want to watch.
Video games are very good in my opinion because they release tension and are cathartic of the violence and aggression we all naturally feel into something that only kills pixels. I would happily buy my forthcoming grandchild a console (although I bought my children computers rather than consoles that was because they were older and needed them for their homework as well and I know Larissa will bring the little boy - unborn as yet but he is on the way and we know it's a he - up properly to use computers elsewhere) and I myself exhausted reserves of untapped aggression into pen and paper D&D in the 1970s so I know how you feel.
Good for you not wanting to watch too much TV. It is not all bad but it certainly has a corrosive effect on British society because the content is so bad; American TV is actually pretty good as it is representative of a wide range of different viewpoints whereas British TV has gone drastically downhill and all 999 channels (!) feed the same diet of crap to everyone regardless of viewpoint and have been responsible for a lot that is bad about the country.
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Last night I think I began surfing/watching/listening/reading online around 3pm, stopped for dinner, and then continued for the evening until I went to bed around 11. As my mother went to sleep (my parents' room is right next to mine), she said angrily to me from her room "Okay, you've been on that now for WAAY TOO LONG". Even though I was pretty pissed, I didn't really say anything in response. Now this afternoon (I guess I've been on for 3-4 hours or so today), she said something very similar to what she said last night. The conversation continued something like this:
Me: There's nothing else to do.
Mom: So? Find something. See what's on TV.
It amazes me that here hatred for computers runs so deep that she'd actually encourage me to sit down on a couch and watch TV instead of being on a computer.
It's just so damn illogical...has anyone else has similar experiences?
Horrible, horrible woman. At least she would have a point (though not much of one) if she was more active herself. !!! BUT! Louise's mother is a bit like that, but at 28 she could just ignore her and carry on with what she was doing for me. Now I'm the one spending all night on the computer and she's working on some drafting for me, but...:) I still give her what she needs later on :):):D.
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My mom made the decision to learn how to use the computer when I was 18. My brother, who was 3 at the time, knew more than her and so she knew it was time to get current. She took classes at the library and one in school and now she's just as internet savvy as my brother and I. In fact everyone in our family has their own computer.
From what my mom has told me, alot of older adults are being passed over for promotions(sadly this is a valid form of age discrimination) because they aren't computer savvy. In alot of cases companies keep the same computer system for 10 years or more and then when they upgrade the 45 and over crowd doesn't know how to use the new computers. I think there needs to be a national initiative to get older people up to date on computer technology. There are alot of programs that help older people with new technology but many aren't advertised. My late grandma got her first computer through a program that sold computers at a discount to seniors. I'd never heard of such a thing before then.
My late grandma got her first computer through a program that sold computers at a discount to seniors. I'd never heard of such a thing before then.
Louise is lucky enough to have a grandmother who was into computers a long time even before she was and she taught Louise and her sister Jillian to use her computer before they got one themselves (the first thing they ran to use when they got to her house was the Amstrad CPC664 because their dad's computer was strictly off limits when Louise wiped his hard disk for him by accident). Apparently Jillian received an email from her grandmother at university and her friends were shocked that she had, as she later put it, a "cybergranny". My generation are, as I said, in-between - too old to be thoroughly computer-literate, too old to really prefer using one to type first drafts of things out rather than use pen and paper and then transfer it to the computer later - and too young to be eligible for these kind of schemes which I think are kind of patronising BUT a good step on the way to helping people communicate better with their grandparents and may help keep elderly people within reach of their families; because the way we as a society are going we need all the help we can get not becoming "out-of-sight, out-of-mind".
The first time I emailed Mrs Hunter though she thought it was spam from the Conservative Party and deleted it. It took a while to say the least to get it into her head that not only did Louise have a cyber-granny but a cyber-Owlperson at her disposal.
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There are some things about the computer that my mom doesn't understand, yet she blames the problems she causes on me. If it wasn't so frustrating it would be hilarious.
Mom: Hmmm, the page won't load. *Left Click 16 times* **** this computer!
(2 Hours later)
Me: *Click. Click.* MOOOOOM! Why is the computer frozen again?
Mom: Goddamnit Joe! Did you break the computer again?!
It goes on like that for several minutes with me trying to explain to her that AOL is the browser from Hell and that Macs come with a handy feature called "Force Quit". Apparently she hasn't quite mastered that yet.
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OH, missed that sorry. Maybe I'm just frustrated at my own kids who seem to have no desire to move out (don't want to threadjack so I won't go into any details).
Using a laptop seems like a nice compromise, do they have wireless or can you just run a long cable?
They still have dial-up and I use a 50 foot phone cable.
While it goes without saying that our generation (to give that comment context, I'm 21) and younger generations make use of computers (and the internet specifically) much more often than our parents do. But I've noticed (in my parents anyway, my mother specifically) a sort of stigma/fear regarding computers. Here's a specific example that I just experienced this yesterday and today to explain what I'm talking about:
I'm a senior in college, and I go to school about 1.5 hours away from my parents house. This week is fall break, and I'm spending it at my parents house. I'm their oldest child, and its still not sunk into their heads that I'm an adult. They miss me and want to spend time with me, so I decided to spend the week with them.
Well, to put it bluntly, my parents are boring. When they have free time, 999 times out of 1000, they watch TV. They don't really have many/any friends outside of the family, and watching TV is basically the only thing they do for fun.
But I don't watch TV very often...at least not physically on TV. Video games? Sure. Video/TV on the internet/computer? Check. It's pretty simple, really -there's usually not much on that I actually want to watch.
So I've been home since Sunday now and I'm already bored out of my mind. Anyone and everyone who I know here in my hometown are away at school. I decided to leave my Gamecube at school (which I'm now regretting), so I've spent a good amount of time online: streaming TV, reading news and forums like this one, deckbuilding & playing Magic via MWS, listening to music via Pandora.
Last night I think I began surfing/watching/listening/reading online around 3pm, stopped for dinner, and then continued for the evening until I went to bed around 11. As my mother went to sleep (my parents' room is right next to mine), she said angrily to me from her room "Okay, you've been on that now for WAAY TOO LONG". Even though I was pretty pissed, I didn't really say anything in response. Now this afternoon (I guess I've been on for 3-4 hours or so today), she said something very similar to what she said last night. The conversation continued something like this:
Me: There's nothing else to do.
Mom: So? Find something. See what's on TV.
It amazes me that here hatred for computers runs so deep that she'd actually encourage me to sit down on a couch and watch TV instead of being on a computer.
It's just so damn illogical...has anyone else has similar experiences?
Aren't they though?
Grandma: I don't even know how to turn this silly thing on!
Me: Well, theres a big green button on there that says 'ON'.
Grandma: I'm too old for these newfangled phones Chronoplasm.
Me: It's not that hard. First just press the 'ON' button.
Grandma: Which one is that?
Me: It's the big green button that says 'ON'.
Grandma: Where is it?
Me: It's right there on the front.
Grandma: Oh. You know so much about these gadgets.
There is an imposter among us...
I think for most people it's just an unwillingness to learn- they've decided they don't understand it and they just ignore any attempt to make them think otherwise.
My mom is under the impression that computers cause brain cancer.
Specifically, it's moments when you can see that the basis of their argument against what you are doing (whether it is related to culture or technology) is not based in fact, reasoning, or logic, that really get me.
Then again, I was thrown out of my house for dating a woman I met online (technological difference of generations), who was also older than me (cultural difference of generations), and now my family has done basically everything but disown me, unless I leave her. I may be a bit biased as a result.
This wins the Sign of the Times award.
@Darius: That's a bummer. My parents are stodgy old farts who accused me of being a pedophile just for playing and judging Magic tournaments. So I expected the absolute worst reaction when I went to tell them I met my fiance online. Far from it, we actually were able to word it so that both the age difference (about 7 years) and the sketchy way we met (in a game design forum) were secondary. But I had to be very very careful. And my older sister still doesn't approve, she fancies herself the only "normal" person in the family and heaps scorn and condescension on anything that smacks of "geek" culture. (She dumped a guy in college for being a Magic geek...I came over to visit them one day and saw him sorting cards on the den floor, piles and piles of them. She was sitting watching TV and had her back turned to him. It was a weird dynamic.)
It's not just generational. I'm a big online gamer and love technology, but won't stoop so low as to make a Myspace or Facebook page. Bleh, it just seems so immature and icky.
@envying time with you: It's a lot easier to geek out for hours on end because I've left home and live ~3000 miles away from them.
Even if he is looking at porn, I think he's an adult and has full right to do so.
And yeah, it's funny how old generations don't get technology at all. For example, none of the math teachers at my school know how to work the graphing caculators, even when it's a part of the subject they're teaching. For example, my statistics teacher did not know how to have r (correlation) calculated with the linear regression line on the TI-83 even though he had it on his own calculator. It was a really sad sight. O yeah, and even more funny was that he didn't know that you could zoom out. That was very stupid. If he knows how to zoomSTAT, you'd think he'd know about the zoomOUT option.
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Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
In his post he mentions that it's break and he's spending it there.
I've come across this some as well and it really was about time spent with my family. Once I got a laptop and started sitting in the living room with them they pretty much stopped talking about it.
Haha, I guess I really am the unlucky guy this time. My family makes a huge deal of it if I even want to use the internet for a couple minutes on their computer when I visit. It's really funny to me, how important, relevant, and useful the internet is, coupled with how much they hate/ignore/fear it.
OH, missed that sorry. Maybe I'm just frustrated at my own kids who seem to have no desire to move out (don't want to threadjack so I won't go into any details).
Using a laptop seems like a nice compromise, do they have wireless or can you just run a long cable?
He won't do anything but check travel deals, so he knows nothing about it. He knows nothing about, so he won't do anything on it but check travel deals. He spent 1000 dollars on it to check travel deals and listen to an audio bible. 1000 dollars to hear a talking Bible and he calls me lazy.
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
What I have noticed is the following: Not restricted to adults, people in general seem to not want to learn how to use a computer more than they have to. They seem to glorify many of the mechanizations of the device. Now, I have always found the computer fairly intuitive, and when I don't understand something I seek to learn how to do it. However, even many of my peers refuse to learn how to solve problems, rather they default to asking help. Many of my peers simply use the computer for aim, facebook, and typing assignments.
However, as age progresses, the elder generations seem to refuse to learn how to use devices much more. This is probably because they are fearful of change; humans in general tend to fear change rather than embrace it.
To this end, adults don't understand the implications of the internet, and refuse to analyze the change. They therefore see it as a wall, and seek not to accept it. Therefore, fostered in technology, we, being the younger generation, and among that generation the more savvy (I will assume that people using this forum likely, for the most part, fall into that category) cannot perceive why they will not accept our norm, while they cannot perceive why we would deviate so much from their norms.
TVs have a very simple user interface, to put it bluntly. Luddites, using the term lightly, actively deny their ability to grow from this, and therefore consent to it. However, seeking to create a common society from what the perceive as their norm and our deviation. Unwilling to believe that they are anything but unable to deviate likewise, they seek to counter the deviation (a rather large generalization, but we are talking in generalizations here).
This explains why elder generations both seek to maintain their norms, which were established by organic principles that existed prior to the microchip, and to do so violate our norms, who's principles were developed to coincide with the changing technological environment.
I believe that if one wishes to maintain their computer usage, they need to slowly and carefully introduce our subculture to the "older generations". Rather than submerge them, ease them in. Start with something they can understand and use, like imdb or amazon, and then progress towards ebay, get them paypal, etc. Show them internet radio, and you may eventually be able to share in the interest rather than fight over it.
I find that laptops, as advised, tend to bridge the gap in an alternate fashion. As long as you interact with your parents, they should be satisfied. If what I said is true to any degree, they are simply seeking solidarity with what they perceive to be an ever deviating subculture. By interacting with them, you are showing them that you are not going to abandon their perceived norms and values, while you can still engage in your norms and values as perpetuated by your technological environment. However, they will still perceive technology as alien. I maintain that the best approach is to introduce technology to them slowly, and you may at least allow them to gain acceptance of a different lifestyle.
The question you have to ask them is - what happens when the TV goes off? I mean...permanently. Louise's parents were like that and my mum was like that but having a stimulating career like politics when I went into "hibernation" - two years at home, basically, because there was a vendetta going against me and I wasn't even allowed back into parliament to do my job 1999-2001 - I needed something else to do while still getting paid. After a month or so of moping around - and yes, looking up porn on the computer and getting under my wife's feet - I enrolled on a computer course to polish my graphic skills and learn more about their use. Louise's mum and dad immediately yell for her - or they did before she moved in with me - when they need help with the computer, but she like most people doesn't know how to interfere with its workings, just use it properly. Sandra - my first wife; she still lives with me though - finds the computer just as complicated but has a better social life and a less demanding career (the odd bit of modelling - she was on the cover of Vogue before she married me; she still does the odd catalogue, at 66 she is still half made out of plastic and thus is still attractive to the photographers even if she treated me in the last months of our marriage as her son not her husband).
I think it probably relates to how busy your parents are and how they learn. A lot of people I know in politics still like to write things by hand and get their secretaries to type them up, and they all go into the City when they retire (I HATE the idea myself, I'm not in this for the money), so they lose a chance to educate themselves about using invaluable tools like computers and the internet. I do still like pen and paper to draft things but by the time I was in government we were each issued with computers and when I left the Home Office in 1997 I was using (and abusing) email and the internet...I'll leave how to your imagination but the bit about porn-machines is true and given I was under considerable stress and living apart from my wife who preferred it down in my seaside constituency to the bright lights of London it is obvious what I used it for. ; 9
Video games are very good in my opinion because they release tension and are cathartic of the violence and aggression we all naturally feel into something that only kills pixels. I would happily buy my forthcoming grandchild a console (although I bought my children computers rather than consoles that was because they were older and needed them for their homework as well and I know Larissa will bring the little boy - unborn as yet but he is on the way and we know it's a he - up properly to use computers elsewhere) and I myself exhausted reserves of untapped aggression into pen and paper D&D in the 1970s so I know how you feel.
Good for you not wanting to watch too much TV. It is not all bad but it certainly has a corrosive effect on British society because the content is so bad; American TV is actually pretty good as it is representative of a wide range of different viewpoints whereas British TV has gone drastically downhill and all 999 channels (!) feed the same diet of crap to everyone regardless of viewpoint and have been responsible for a lot that is bad about the country.
Horrible, horrible woman. At least she would have a point (though not much of one) if she was more active herself. !!! BUT! Louise's mother is a bit like that, but at 28 she could just ignore her and carry on with what she was doing for me. Now I'm the one spending all night on the computer and she's working on some drafting for me, but...:) I still give her what she needs later on :):):D.
Thank you to R&Doom for the amazing sig banner and Le_Gambit for the wonderful avatar.
"He took the balls from many clerks/And hung them from a branch
"When he struck us with feet and hands/It made Volpone dance!" - The Ballad of Dentling Nick, by Mr Owl
From what my mom has told me, alot of older adults are being passed over for promotions(sadly this is a valid form of age discrimination) because they aren't computer savvy. In alot of cases companies keep the same computer system for 10 years or more and then when they upgrade the 45 and over crowd doesn't know how to use the new computers. I think there needs to be a national initiative to get older people up to date on computer technology. There are alot of programs that help older people with new technology but many aren't advertised. My late grandma got her first computer through a program that sold computers at a discount to seniors. I'd never heard of such a thing before then.
Louise is lucky enough to have a grandmother who was into computers a long time even before she was and she taught Louise and her sister Jillian to use her computer before they got one themselves (the first thing they ran to use when they got to her house was the Amstrad CPC664 because their dad's computer was strictly off limits when Louise wiped his hard disk for him by accident). Apparently Jillian received an email from her grandmother at university and her friends were shocked that she had, as she later put it, a "cybergranny". My generation are, as I said, in-between - too old to be thoroughly computer-literate, too old to really prefer using one to type first drafts of things out rather than use pen and paper and then transfer it to the computer later - and too young to be eligible for these kind of schemes which I think are kind of patronising BUT a good step on the way to helping people communicate better with their grandparents and may help keep elderly people within reach of their families; because the way we as a society are going we need all the help we can get not becoming "out-of-sight, out-of-mind".
The first time I emailed Mrs Hunter though she thought it was spam from the Conservative Party and deleted it. It took a while to say the least to get it into her head that not only did Louise have a cyber-granny but a cyber-Owlperson at her disposal.
Thank you to R&Doom for the amazing sig banner and Le_Gambit for the wonderful avatar.
"He took the balls from many clerks/And hung them from a branch
"When he struck us with feet and hands/It made Volpone dance!" - The Ballad of Dentling Nick, by Mr Owl
Mom: Hmmm, the page won't load. *Left Click 16 times* **** this computer!
(2 Hours later)
Me: *Click. Click.* MOOOOOM! Why is the computer frozen again?
Mom: Goddamnit Joe! Did you break the computer again?!
It goes on like that for several minutes with me trying to explain to her that AOL is the browser from Hell and that Macs come with a handy feature called "Force Quit". Apparently she hasn't quite mastered that yet.
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