With the new cards form Kaladesh the control archetype might finally be able to be a top tier contestant in the future standard. After the last days of testing i came up with the following list, a pretty standard UB control strategy with a lot of removal and a decent package of counters (not the best printed in mtg history but they actually do their job decently). As a draw engine we use Glimmer of Genius wich let us continue the flow of cards throughout the game to get card advantadge and seal the deal in conjuction with Torrential Gearhulk.
As a finisher we use Torrential Gearhulk, wich has the following upsides:
(1). It has flash.
(2). It has high P/T, making him hard to kill in combat and with most standard removal. He's 5 power puts a 4 turn clock so you win pretty fast with him.
(3). It's an artifact creature, He can't be countered by Revolutionary Rebuff or get exiled out of our deck with Lost Legacy. Also it enables delirium pretty well.
(4). He's not a legendary creature, letting us have more than one in play, wich finishes games incredibly fast.
(5). He's snapcaster like ability, wich keeps the pace of the game in your favor, especially letting you recast Glimmer of Genius for extra card flow and also recasting your counter spells, wich usually is enough to overwhelm the opponent and completely get in control of the game.
The sideboard is obviously still not optimal as we dont have an actual metagame to build around, for now it`s filled with the usual type of answers needed vs aggro matchups and others (Metallurgic Summonings seems pretty good against midrange/control type decks as an alternative wincon).
Any ideas or questions you might have are welcomed.
Lets make control great again guys!
I think Harsh Scrutiny has not been getting any attention or love at all. I think it's a slam 4x in any B/x control shell. Followed up with Collective Brutality (maybe not a 4x but some number)
I think that Transgress the Mind is just a better discard spell overall because it can hit any non land cards and it exiles them wich is super relevant right now with so many ways to return cards frome the grave to the hand or field. Harsh Scrutiny might be a great sideboard card against aggro matchups (replacing Contraband Kingpin maybe?) but i dont think its good enough to be a 4x maindeckable card tbh. Collective Brutality does not fit in this list just because we dont have any way to gain an advantadge from the discard mechanic and we only get (in my opinion) an underwhelming set of options from it.
I don't know, being able to have a chance for a turn 1 discard spell, you get to see what the opponent is working with, figure out what to use your counterspell on, and you can fix the top of your deck too...yeah Transgress is better but, why not both?
I will try it out instead of Revolutionary Rebuff i guess, but i still want to maintain a mayority of instant speed spells to have more targets with Torrential Gearhulk. I still beleive it will end up beign a sideboard card, at least in this list i think it does not fit that well as a maindeck one. I don't know how relevant the Scry 1 might be, but that could be enough to change my mind though.
eh, I think Revolutionary Rebuff would go well with Harsh Scrutiny. Turn 1 Discard into turn 2 counter into turn 3 transgress/Liliana would jack up any opponent pretty badly. Not that you'll have that kind of opener often.
Not sure if 4 Void Shatters are needed and I was personally never a fan of To The Slaughter. I also wish there was something to use that energy from Glimmer on...I like what's here a lot though. If only there was a solid board wipe.
Recasting Void Shatter with Torrential Gearhulk feels so good when it happens that i would like to maintain that play, also we can counter the gearhulk's with it, but your suggestion might actually be the right call though. i'll try it out.
I tried to think of a decent way of using the energy created by Glimmer of Genius but the options we have don't convince me very much (Thriving Turtle ,Die Young ,Multiform Wonder,etc). I'm not a fan of To the Slaughter that much either, but it's the only way of killing planeswalkers at instant speed and it can be used with Torrential Gearhulk. I might probably just play a 4th Ruinous Path in the end and get some copies of Murder in, it will all depend on how the metagame evolves though.
The problem with discard spell sin control is that they draw new cards. Discard spells are awesome in midrange when you need to (a) strip the answers from your opponent's hand so you can safely land your threat or (b) make sure your threat you want to land resolves. For example, in Shaheen Soorani's deck (or this one) where you preassure your opponent relatively early (with lili, or Jace, VP in that deck) then discard is great.
in the case of this deck, you want to make them discard answers to your planeswalkers (or, potentially, counterspells that prevent your walkers from resolving). In that regard, Harsh Scrutiny does little for you. Yes, it helps relieve the pressure from a threat that would have resolved, but to deal with opposing threats I'd much rather have them spend the mana and then remove it, as opposed to stripping it from their hands. The only exception is the cast" triggers on Eldrazi, but (a) those all cost 3 or more mana and (b) I'd rather not scry and exile them, than get a scry and set me up for a potential grapple with the past blowout. Also, by the time they cast Emrakul, Elder deep fiend or anything like it, 1 or 2 mana is not that big of a difference. So, bottom line, I think transgress is the better card. Note: this does not hit walkers. In that sense it is worse than despise, and despise saw little to no play.
Forgot about Demon of Dark Schemes, might be a decent option but it's very dependable on the metagame though and it fights the six drop spot with mah boy torrential. Confiscation Coup might be a very powerful option as well.
Recasting Void Shatter with Torrential Gearhulk feels so good when it happens that i would like to maintain that play, also we can counter the gearhulk's with it, but your suggestion might actually be the right call though. i'll try it out.
I tried to think of a decent way of using the energy created by Glimmer of Genius but the options we have don't convince me very much (Thriving Turtle ,Die Young ,Multiform Wonder,etc). I'm not a fan of To the Slaughter that much either, but it's the only way of killing planeswalkers at instant speed and it can be used with Torrential Gearhulk. I might probably just play a 4th Ruinous Path in the end and get some copies of Murder in, it will all depend on how the metagame evolves though.
The problem with void shatter is that having a 3-mana counter in a deck with 3-mana sorcery-speed spells (Liliana and ruinous path) leads to awkward situations, where you might end up tapping out and allowing a threat to resolve under your permission, or you just end up casting your 3-mana walker too late in the game to make a real difference. Lili is not as powerful turn 6 if your opponent is casting Deep Fiends and Mindbenders as she is tunr 3 when they are dropping 1/1s or 2/1s to emerge from.
The thing with playing control lists is that we build our decks around the metagame we are playing in, so if we know what we are facing we should'nt have issues with the correct sequencing of cards and not gt stuck in awkard situations. Playing 4x Transgress the Mind in our maindeck helps us keeping at pace with what our opponents is trying to acomplish and we can build a decennt plan to control the game with that infomration. The information of the metagame will be essencial in how we build the deck in the end, so we don't get stuck in awkard situations, and if we do we should have a good sideboard plan to fix those issues.
I like the deck. I think Torrential Gearhulk will likely dictate several control decks in the future. As for the use of your energy, you can play 2 Die Young to ensure it's a 2 cmc kill spell in the mid game. However I would probably just ignore the energy or play 2 Confiscation Coup as you suggested. You can't afford to make it enough of a theme to get a real reward like Era of Innovation.
Confiscation Coup is probably not good enough to be in the maindeck, but could be a very powerful sideboard card. I think we can ignore the energy for now and wait for a metagame to build up. Die Young beign a sorcery just makes it not so good and the games where i have it in my hand against a turn 2 advocate as my single removal will be pretty tilting.
Recasting Void Shatter with Torrential Gearhulk feels so good when it happens that i would like to maintain that play, also we can counter the gearhulk's with it, but your suggestion might actually be the right call though. i'll try it out.
I tried to think of a decent way of using the energy created by Glimmer of Genius but the options we have don't convince me very much (Thriving Turtle ,Die Young ,Multiform Wonder,etc). I'm not a fan of To the Slaughter that much either, but it's the only way of killing planeswalkers at instant speed and it can be used with Torrential Gearhulk. I might probably just play a 4th Ruinous Path in the end and get some copies of Murder in, it will all depend on how the metagame evolves though.
Aether Hub
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Standard: UB Control
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
Aether Hub would have little use as a mana fixer in the deck and we aren't using any colourless cards so i don't see why would i put it in just to have a way to use the residual energy from Glimmer of Genius.
Aether Hub would have little use as a mana fixer in the deck and we aren't using any colourless cards so i don't see why would i put it in just to have a way to use the residual energy from Glimmer of Genius.
in straight UB you wouldn't, but if you want to splash a third colour for an unexpected spell, then you would. Example: you might splash W for sorin, grim nemesis or anguished unmaking, and then Aether hub plays a role. Or maybe red for unlicenced desintegration (kill a creature deal 3 to your planeswalker seems decent, occasionally it'll even be a 2 for 1, or even an unexpected lethal since your opponent won't suspect R from a UB deck). Of course, these would just be 1-of spells, and probably spells you plan to cast in the late game (as you'd need to have the hub out and charged by then), but such spells do exist and can be useful. And then there's the oddball colourless spell you might want to throw in anyway, like spatial contortion. Not saying you necessarily want to do this, but just that you could at a small cost.
I love the deck, but maybe you're a little too invested in Torrential gearhulk; although he's great, you might consider Noxious gearhulk (harder to block, kills and lifegain), or Demon of dark schemes (flies, sweeps and reanimates). Maybe a ratio 2-1-1 or 3-1-1 would give more versatility to the deck.
Honestly, all the changes we make to the deck will depend exclusively on the meta we are playing, as all the cards you mentioned have an ability that shines against especific matchups.
In the case of Gonti, lord of luxury, i also love him but i don't think he fits in the deck .
Honestly, all the changes we make to the deck will depend exclusively on the meta we are playing, as all the cards you mentioned have an ability that shines against especific matchups.
In the case of Gonti, lord of luxury, i also love him but i don't think he fits in the deck .
Why not? The only reason I would not play him in a control deck it's because of sweepers (I mean sweepers I'd play), but Languish rotates out
Honestly, all the changes we make to the deck will depend exclusively on the meta we are playing, as all the cards you mentioned have an ability that shines against especific matchups.
In the case of Gonti, lord of luxury, i also love him but i don't think he fits in the deck .
Why not? The only reason I would not play him in a control deck it's because of sweepers (I mean sweepers I'd play), but Languish rotates out
Honestly, all the changes we make to the deck will depend exclusively on the meta we are playing, as all the cards you mentioned have an ability that shines against especific matchups.
In the case of Gonti, lord of luxury, i also love him but i don't think he fits in the deck .
Why not? The only reason I would not play him in a control deck it's because of sweepers (I mean sweepers I'd play), but Languish rotates out
Gotta try him to see the potential hehe.
I'd say give him a try. At first I was skeptical, but when I read two o three times I realized it says ANY SPELL, every turn if you want, and you can keep playing it even if Gonti dies. Awesome.
Not only those cards, but also we have Oath of Liliana, To the Slaughter, Blighted Fen and all wraths kill Sphinx of the final word. I could see the Sphinx as a sideboard card against control decks in a meta with a decent amount of counter spells, but it probably won't be better than a resolved Metallurgic Summonings against a control shell. I'd rather stay with Torrential Gearhulk wich flash and ability are much more impactful than the Sphinx abiliy in a general point of view.
Dynavolt Tower is an okay energy outlet. repeatable removal is nice.
I don't think Dynavolt Tower is any good, you have to tap it each time to deal only 3 damage and for some annoying reason it needs 5 energy each time and not 4 so overall it's very bad in my opinion.
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As a finisher we use Torrential Gearhulk, wich has the following upsides:
(1). It has flash.
(2). It has high P/T, making him hard to kill in combat and with most standard removal. He's 5 power puts a 4 turn clock so you win pretty fast with him.
(3). It's an artifact creature, He can't be countered by Revolutionary Rebuff or get exiled out of our deck with Lost Legacy. Also it enables delirium pretty well.
(4). He's not a legendary creature, letting us have more than one in play, wich finishes games incredibly fast.
(5). He's snapcaster like ability, wich keeps the pace of the game in your favor, especially letting you recast Glimmer of Genius for extra card flow and also recasting your counter spells, wich usually is enough to overwhelm the opponent and completely get in control of the game.
The sideboard is obviously still not optimal as we dont have an actual metagame to build around, for now it`s filled with the usual type of answers needed vs aggro matchups and others (Metallurgic Summonings seems pretty good against midrange/control type decks as an alternative wincon).
Any ideas or questions you might have are welcomed.
Lets make control great again guys!
Initial List: (9/20/2016)
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Spells (25)
4 Transgress the Mind
4 Revolutionary Rebuff
4 Grasp of Darkness
2 To the Slaughter
3 Ruinous Path
4 Void Shatter
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Contraband Kingpin
2 Metallurgic Summonings
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Essence Extraction
1 To the Slaughter
2 Negate
Updated list: (10/31/2016)
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
4 Submerged Boneyard
8 Swamp
5 Island
1 Blighted Fen
Creatures (4)
4 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Dead Weight
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Essence Extraction
1 Murder
2 Ruinous Path
2 Negate
4 Void Shatter
4 Anticipate
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ruinous Path
1 Essence Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
4 Transgress the Mind
2 Negate
Not sure if 4 Void Shatters are needed and I was personally never a fan of To The Slaughter. I also wish there was something to use that energy from Glimmer on...I like what's here a lot though. If only there was a solid board wipe.
I tried to think of a decent way of using the energy created by Glimmer of Genius but the options we have don't convince me very much (Thriving Turtle ,Die Young ,Multiform Wonder,etc). I'm not a fan of To the Slaughter that much either, but it's the only way of killing planeswalkers at instant speed and it can be used with Torrential Gearhulk. I might probably just play a 4th Ruinous Path in the end and get some copies of Murder in, it will all depend on how the metagame evolves though.
in the case of this deck, you want to make them discard answers to your planeswalkers (or, potentially, counterspells that prevent your walkers from resolving). In that regard, Harsh Scrutiny does little for you. Yes, it helps relieve the pressure from a threat that would have resolved, but to deal with opposing threats I'd much rather have them spend the mana and then remove it, as opposed to stripping it from their hands. The only exception is the cast" triggers on Eldrazi, but (a) those all cost 3 or more mana and (b) I'd rather not scry and exile them, than get a scry and set me up for a potential grapple with the past blowout. Also, by the time they cast Emrakul, Elder deep fiend or anything like it, 1 or 2 mana is not that big of a difference. So, bottom line, I think transgress is the better card. Note: this does not hit walkers. In that sense it is worse than despise, and despise saw little to no play.
Confiscation Coup might be a very powerful option as well.
The problem with void shatter is that having a 3-mana counter in a deck with 3-mana sorcery-speed spells (Liliana and ruinous path) leads to awkward situations, where you might end up tapping out and allowing a threat to resolve under your permission, or you just end up casting your 3-mana walker too late in the game to make a real difference. Lili is not as powerful turn 6 if your opponent is casting Deep Fiends and Mindbenders as she is tunr 3 when they are dropping 1/1s or 2/1s to emerge from.
Aether Hub
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
RIP Jimmy foREVer
in straight UB you wouldn't, but if you want to splash a third colour for an unexpected spell, then you would. Example: you might splash W for sorin, grim nemesis or anguished unmaking, and then Aether hub plays a role. Or maybe red for unlicenced desintegration (kill a creature deal 3 to your planeswalker seems decent, occasionally it'll even be a 2 for 1, or even an unexpected lethal since your opponent won't suspect R from a UB deck). Of course, these would just be 1-of spells, and probably spells you plan to cast in the late game (as you'd need to have the hub out and charged by then), but such spells do exist and can be useful. And then there's the oddball colourless spell you might want to throw in anyway, like spatial contortion. Not saying you necessarily want to do this, but just that you could at a small cost.
Also, thre's some of favorites I'd like to point: ceremonious rejection (perfect fit on SB, denies from smuggler's copter to skysovereign, consul flagship to ANY Eldrazi!! for one mana), deadlock trap (a nice way to use energy and the only resource to deal with planeswalkers) and Gonti, lord of luxury (OMG, steal collective defiance, gearhulks, reflector mage, planeswalkers...)
In the case of Gonti, lord of luxury, i also love him but i don't think he fits in the deck .
Why not? The only reason I would not play him in a control deck it's because of sweepers (I mean sweepers I'd play), but Languish rotates out
Gotta try him to see the potential hehe.
I'd say give him a try. At first I was skeptical, but when I read two o three times I realized it says ANY SPELL, every turn if you want, and you can keep playing it even if Gonti dies. Awesome.
Not only those cards, but also we have Oath of Liliana, To the Slaughter, Blighted Fen and all wraths kill Sphinx of the final word. I could see the Sphinx as a sideboard card against control decks in a meta with a decent amount of counter spells, but it probably won't be better than a resolved Metallurgic Summonings against a control shell. I'd rather stay with Torrential Gearhulk wich flash and ability are much more impactful than the Sphinx abiliy in a general point of view.
I don't think Dynavolt Tower is any good, you have to tap it each time to deal only 3 damage and for some annoying reason it needs 5 energy each time and not 4 so overall it's very bad in my opinion.