I have been playing U/B control for the past few months, but I have grown a little weary so I thought I would attempt a little color change. I have been working on this for the past week or so, and as one can see it takes a lot of elements from the U/B control deck (hay, it works). The main question one could ask is, "why U/R control over U/B control?" For me it really boils down to the love of "counter-burn," but really though - all of that is wrapped up in Mindswipe.
I feel that Mindswipe is VERY much underrated at this point - and will likely only grow stronger as the format expands. In this shell IE "counter-burn," Mindswipe acts as a way to increase the presure why you wait for you're BIG BOMBS IE Pearl Lake Ancient or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - though the main reason I have Sarkhan in the deck is for some added board control.
Anyway, I would love some input on what I have thus far.
This looks like a really good, have you play tested this against aggro or taken it to FNM yet? Your deck seems to come online turn 3-4 (assuming you draw Lightning strike in your opening hand, you might be able to take control very early). Some mono red decks will have you beat unless you can curtail the damage with life gain. Your win conditions here are varied, I'm curious to see how this functions against Midrange decks, seems like it's really geared to put a wrench in those. Maybe run Magma Jet over Lightning Strike? The ability to plan out your turns ahead of time might be more beneficial, and I think serves a control deck more. Depends on your local meta game though.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
I actually plan on testing it an FNM this coming Friday (will report). As for testing against aggro, the SB actually helps out with that A LOT game 2 - ill explain:
-1 AEtherspouts
-2 Fated Conflagration
-4 Perilous Vault
-2 Pearl Lake Ancient
+3 Arc Lightning
+2 Magma Spray
+2 Prognostic Sphinx
+2 Wall of Frost
Thus far its been working out rather well, though I am sure there is some room for improvement (always is). I have found though in many of my matches in testing that Mindswipe ends up winning more games than most. As for what you mentioned about the win cons, you are right they are "varied," I have actually been thinking about dropping Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker from the deck completely and relying on Pearl Lake Ancient and Mindswipe to finish the job for me - thoughts?
You mentioned Magma Jet over Lightning Strike, I agree completely. I just kinda wanted to go over rather than under for testing phase - then smooth it out once I see how things work.
The Temple of Mystery is there just for another scry land (though with all the scy I have in the deck I could prolly replace it with an island. As for the 2x G/R fetch lands - thats all they are is fetch lands really. If I had access (in standard) to the U/R fetch land I would use that.
The Temple of Mystery is there just for another scry land (though with all the scy I have in the deck I could prolly replace it with an island. As for the 2x G/R fetch lands - thats all they are is fetch lands really. If I had access (in standard) to the U/R fetch land I would use that.
I'd replace. Also I went 3-1 and got top 4 last week at FNM with U/R control
I have been playing U/B control for the past few months, but I have grown a little weary so I thought I would attempt a little color change. I have been working on this for the past week or so, and as one can see it takes a lot of elements from the U/B control deck (hay, it works). The main question one could ask is, "why U/R control over U/B control?" For me it really boils down to the love of "counter-burn," but really though - all of that is wrapped up in Mindswipe.
I feel that Mindswipe is VERY much underrated at this point - and will likely only grow stronger as the format expands. In this shell IE "counter-burn," Mindswipe acts as a way to increase the presure why you wait for you're BIG BOMBS IE Pearl Lake Ancient or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - though the main reason I have Sarkhan in the deck is for some added board control.
Anyway, I would love some input on what I have thus far.
I have to agree with this. From experience, one of the biggest advantages to playing U/R is Keranos. He's near impossible to remove, and gives inevitability. He also turns a lot of your a lot of your removal in red into a far more efficient spell. Lightning Strike can remove almost anything in the format with Keranos in play. Equally, he's a house against Aggro, as after you've spent a ton of resources getting the board stabalize he'll hit the board and either shoot their creatures or give you an impossible to remove win con. Give the nature of Red's removal, you will often find yourself 2-for-1'ing yourself fairly often early in the game, and Keranos makes that far more palatable.
I've been wrecking people with it for the last month. My meta isn't terribly Rhino heavy, so I don't have as many answers to that style of deck, but the flex slot in the deck is definitely the Lightning Strike, which could easily be Fated Conflagration and/or Perilous Vault.
Steam Augury is a large reason to be in these colors, it turns on Dig faster and due to our redundancy we usually get good stuff.
Prognostic Sphinx is a great finisher in this style of deck, because it can come down when we have an opening and be hard to remove, as well as setting us up to finish out the game with the Scry trigger.
The only deck that I've lost to is Temur aggro/midrange, because of how good Savage Knuckleblade is against my current configuration.
Thank you all for posting! I really appreciate the feedback that said, I have made some ajustments to the deck and I would love some more feedback if possible IE see if I am heading in the right direction (if there even is one).
For me it all started with Dictate of the Twin Gods which I'd been trying to make work before rotation in a UWR shell. After Khans it became quite clear that I had to go U/R, and I tossed some lists in the other thread already mentioned.
Control decks are usually kinda boring for me, but the idea of it being U/R, which is such an uncommon choice of colors (mostly because it hasn't been competitive in standard for quite a while) makes it much more interesting. Dictate of the Twin Gods brings a lot of "adrenaline" into a match as well so I'm trying to make it work. Keranos, God of Storms is VERY cool with Magma Jet.
Thank you all for posting! I really appreciate the feedback that said, I have made some ajustments to the deck and I would love some more feedback if possible IE see if I am heading in the right direction (if there even is one).
A few questions. Without decent life gain in the deck (which is completely absent in UR excepting the life gain lands), how do you plan to stand up against aggro/burn decks? All they have to do is get you close with their fast early creatures, which will usually drop you to <10 within the first 3-4 turns, and then it's a matter of time with all the burn spells. Why Jace's Ingenuity over Divination? Jace's Ingenuity is a later game draw strategy, as is Dig Through Time, so you'll most likely run out of steam early if you're really have to work to keep your opponent at bay. The only time it's super useful is if you didn't have a play turn 5 so you can do the "end of your turn draw" thing. But then, you'll most likely want that mana to activate Perilous Vault... Additionally, some people have mentioned Steam Augury, which is a guaranteed 2 or 3 card draw with fuel for your Dig for one less mana also at instant speed. Might be worth considering. And what are you gonna do when your Abzan opponent is on the play and they drop a Siege Rhino T3 after a Caryatid T2?? You'll only have two mana, so neither of your counterspells work, and it will be a number of turns before you get Perilous Vault out... so you're stuck using two removal spells for their one card so he doesn't just eat you alive. And Siege Rhino decks are a thing right now.
A few questions. Without decent life gain in the deck (which is completely absent in UR excepting the life gain lands), how do you plan to stand up against aggro/burn decks? All they have to do is get you close with their fast early creatures, which will usually drop you to <10 within the first 3-4 turns, and then it's a matter of time with all the burn spells.
Aggro is one of the easier matchups for U/R control. We have Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, and Anger of the Gods to answer early creatures. Life gain lands and counters do a pretty decent job of stopping them from burning us out.
]Why Jace's Ingenuity over Divination? Jace's Ingenuity is a later game draw strategy, as is Dig Through Time, so you'll most likely run out of steam early if you're really have to work to keep your opponent at bay. The only time it's super useful is if you didn't have a play turn 5 so you can do the "end of your turn draw" thing. But then, you'll most likely want that mana to activate Perilous Vault... Additionally, some people have mentioned Steam Augury, which is a guaranteed 2 or 3 card draw with fuel for your Dig for one less mana also at instant speed. Might be worth considering.
Personally, I don't recommend Augury, Ingenuity, or Divination. I run Font of Fortunes instead. You can drop it turn 2 if nothing else is going on, then pop it whenever you don't need to counter something. You can also play a font on turn 5 with Dissolve mana up. It's very flexible. The other 3 options are not as flexible. Augury needs 4 mana in one shot, and often times I find myself needing to draw and Dissolve something in the same turn, which can't happen until you have 7 mana if you're using Augury, and this deck often can't wait that long to be playing its first draw spell.
And what are you gonna do when your Abzan opponent is on the play and they drop a Siege Rhino T3 after a Caryatid T2?? You'll only have two mana, so neither of your counterspells work, and it will be a number of turns before you get Perilous Vault out... so you're stuck using two removal spells for their one card so he doesn't just eat you alive. And Siege Rhino decks are a thing right now.
Abzan has been a rough matchup for me, as well as big creatures in general, but that's why I've been running Fated Conflagration, Voyage's End, and Dragon's Eye Savants in the main deck. They help buy enough time to get Perilous Vault online. Here's the list I'm running.
I'm not a big fan of Prognostic Sphinx or Pearl Lake Ancient. Neither of them have helped me gain control of the board, or come back from situations where I'm behind. They only seem to help win when I'm already really far ahead of my opponent, in which case even a couple morphed creatures can do that. Jace and Sarkhan make a great team, hence the name of the deck.
Aggro is one of the easier matchups for U/R control. We have Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, and Anger of the Gods to answer early creatures. Life gain lands and counters do a pretty decent job of stopping them from burning us out.
Depends on the match-up. Mono red aggro burn, you are probably right. RW aggro burn, they use Gods Willing to prevent removal. The popular Esper control deck from pre-rotation included Elixir of Immortality as strong life gain and graveyard recycling. Absent that card, many control decks are now using Nyx-Fleece Ram and even some try late game Resolute Archangel to help stave off demise.
Personally, I don't recommend Augury, Ingenuity, or Divination. I run Font of Fortunes instead. You can drop it turn 2 if nothing else is going on, then pop it whenever you don't need to counter something. You can also play a font on turn 5 with Dissolve mana up. It's very flexible. The other 3 options are not as flexible. Augury needs 4 mana in one shot, and often times I find myself needing to draw and Dissolve something in the same turn, which can't happen until you have 7 mana if you're using Augury, and this deck often can't wait that long to be playing its first draw spell.
Font is good, but it's still a 4 mana for 2 cards if you want to play and activate same turn. I understand the benefit of being able to delay the draw, but it's hard to argue with two cards for three mana. Unless you see them ramping into something (like the aforementioned Siege Rhino), most decks don't have T3 cards that are worth countering and usually don't have enough board presence for Anger of the Gods to be effective. And then late game, you're probably not gonna play Font and wait to draw, so now you're spending four mana instead of three, and UU at that.
Abzan has been a rough matchup for me, as well as big creatures in general, but that's why I've been running Fated Conflagration, Voyage's End, and Dragon's Eye Savants in the main deck. They help buy enough time to get Perilous Vault online. Here's the list I'm running.
I hope you don't use Voyage's End on Siege Rhino... I typically don't like seeing bounce cards maindeck, but if your primary purpose is to stall into a Perilous Vault, that can work.
I'm not a big fan of Prognostic Sphinx or Pearl Lake Ancient. Neither of them have helped me gain control of the board, or come back from situations where I'm behind. They only seem to help win when I'm already really far ahead of my opponent, in which case even a couple morphed creatures can do that. Jace and Sarkhan make a great team, hence the name of the deck.
The planeswalkers are good additions. I ran them playing Narset Control (primary win con was get Narset on board and use her trigger to beat the snot out of them with Jeskai Charms, Stoke the Flames, and Lightning Strikes) as well as Chandra, Pyromancer. Not sure about Kheru Spellsnatcher though. That's a lot of mana just to sneak a spell away from your opponent, especially when it's vulnerable to your mass removal.
Depends on the match-up. Mono red aggro burn, you are probably right. RW aggro burn, they use Gods Willing to prevent removal. The popular Esper control deck from pre-rotation included Elixir of Immortality as strong life gain and graveyard recycling. Absent that card, many control decks are now using Nyx-Fleece Ram and even some try late game Resolute Archangel to help stave off demise.
Against white based aggro decks, I usually cast my Magma Jets and Conflagrations on my turn if they're tapped out to prevent any shenanigans with Gods Willing. Heck, even if they do use it in response, at least they're using it on my turn, so they prowess trigger of Seeker of the Way goes to waste.
Font is good, but it's still a 4 mana for 2 cards if you want to play and activate same turn. I understand the benefit of being able to delay the draw, but it's hard to argue with two cards for three mana. Unless you see them ramping into something (like the aforementioned Siege Rhino), most decks don't have T3 cards that are worth countering and usually don't have enough board presence for Anger of the Gods to be effective. And then late game, you're probably not gonna play Font and wait to draw, so now you're spending four mana instead of three, and UU at that.
If I'm on the draw, I would want 3 mana for Dissolve available for my opponent's turn 4 Polukranos, Siege Rhino, or especially Whip of Erebos, all of which are bad news for this deck should they resolve. On the play I would want Dissolve mana up for Brimaz, Courser of Kruphix, or just having mana to Magma Jet a Seeker of the way or Goblin Rabblemaster. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to tap out on turn 3 for a divination, but tapping out on turn 2 is often not a problem, then I can pop the Font whenever it becomes convenient.
Turn 3 Angers can be good if they're wiping out say a Bloodsoaked Champion + any other creature, or an Elvish Mystic + Sylvan Caryatid (usually won't do that on turn 3 unless my opponent missed a land drop, then I definitely would do it).
I hope you don't use Voyage's End on Siege Rhino... I typically don't like seeing bounce cards maindeck, but if your primary purpose is to stall into a Perilous Vault, that can work.
Yeah, Voyage's End is more to help against large early threats like Brimaz, heroic creature that's getting out of range of burn, or Ensoul Artifact. I'm also trying it as a way to buy time against opposing Pearl Lake Ancients. The last time I went to FNM, I found myself siding them in almost every round (and wishing I had them game one), so I thought they deserved a maindeck spot. I'll see how it goes.
The planeswalkers are good additions. I ran them playing Narset Control (primary win con was get Narset on board and use her trigger to beat the snot out of them with Jeskai Charms, Stoke the Flames, and Lightning Strikes) as well as Chandra, Pyromancer. Not sure about Kheru Spellsnatcher though. That's a lot of mana just to sneak a spell away from your opponent, especially when it's vulnerable to your mass removal.
Honestly I have yet to snatch any spells with it, and I often don't have the full 9 mana when I first morph him. But one thing is for sure, I have been in a very comfortable spot as a control player when I untap with a Spellsnatcher face down. Running different morph creatures always keeps my opponent guessing, even if they know I have Savants and Spellsnatcher, they're still never sure which one I'm putting down. It's also amusing to see them waste a removal spell (and likely their turn) killing my Savants while I get a free look at their hand. It becomes even more amusing when a Keranos or something reveals a morph card to my opponent, and then I put a creature face down. Also, when I get to the point of playing the Spellsnatcher, I generally won't be needing to cast Anger of the Gods anymore, and if I ever was in a position where I'm casting Anger with my Spellsnatcher out there, then I must have really needed the board wipe and it would still be putting me at an advantage.
I actually kinda like it, but the Master of the Way is a very interesting choice indeed. I LOVE the card Haunted Plate Mail in the SB though, been wanting to find a reason to use em for the longest time 8D
After checking out Tom Ross's U/R deck (which is pretty nice) I made a few adjustments to suit my taste/playstyle. As one can see, I am having some issues with the SB at the moment. I wasnt going to post until complete, but I though i'd ask the forums for help 8D
Just ran my UR control deck tonight (not too far off from everyone else's sans no creatures main)and it has serious problems against the best cards in standard. Courser and Throughseize. It is just so hard to get anything off the table that has more than 3 toughness as a resolved Courser did me in. If anything, I think the decklist from San Antonio had it right as aggro (red cruise)swap control is the best bet. For this deck I think it would be good to swap to burn aggro (Rabble rabble) in the SB and keep them guessing for the third if it comes to that.
Personal Notes
Courser's are just the worst as they will bury you in card advantage and swing. Ashiok is also terrible if it gets resolved as it is extremely hard to get it off the table if it's not countered and you don't have Fated Conflagration especially first game. Dictate of the twin gods I think, is a really good card and wish I ran more than 1 in my 75. All of your jets and burns become insanely powerful and nothing will survive your Anger of the gods.
Resolved and protected Haunted Platemail was my MVP though. That card did some serious work and my best games were when it went to the red zone. Master the way wasn't too bad, just sucks that it is a sorcery as dealing 5-7 damage straight up is good albeit slow. Burn away was amazing against any whip decks and a staple in the SB or "one of" in the main.
My games against straight black/X control were laughably bad as I got destroyed straight up to a 5 card mulligan on the play with Ashiok and was on the defensive after getting thoughtseized to hell and back. I really think this deck is a meta call for an aggro infested scene and with lots of Sidisi/Abzan whip decks or control decks I don't think I'd sleeve it up again. I feel strongly about a transformative SB if I were to try it out again. Anyways, my 2 cents.
A few questions. Without decent life gain in the deck (which is completely absent in UR excepting the life gain lands), how do you plan to stand up against aggro/burn decks? All they have to do is get you close with their fast early creatures, which will usually drop you to <10 within the first 3-4 turns, and then it's a matter of time with all the burn spells.
Aggro is one of the easier matchups for U/R control. We have Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, and Anger of the Gods to answer early creatures. Life gain lands and counters do a pretty decent job of stopping them from burning us out.
]Why Jace's Ingenuity over Divination? Jace's Ingenuity is a later game draw strategy, as is Dig Through Time, so you'll most likely run out of steam early if you're really have to work to keep your opponent at bay. The only time it's super useful is if you didn't have a play turn 5 so you can do the "end of your turn draw" thing. But then, you'll most likely want that mana to activate Perilous Vault... Additionally, some people have mentioned Steam Augury, which is a guaranteed 2 or 3 card draw with fuel for your Dig for one less mana also at instant speed. Might be worth considering.
Personally, I don't recommend Augury, Ingenuity, or Divination. I run Font of Fortunes instead. You can drop it turn 2 if nothing else is going on, then pop it whenever you don't need to counter something. You can also play a font on turn 5 with Dissolve mana up. It's very flexible. The other 3 options are not as flexible. Augury needs 4 mana in one shot, and often times I find myself needing to draw and Dissolve something in the same turn, which can't happen until you have 7 mana if you're using Augury, and this deck often can't wait that long to be playing its first draw spell.
And what are you gonna do when your Abzan opponent is on the play and they drop a Siege Rhino T3 after a Caryatid T2?? You'll only have two mana, so neither of your counterspells work, and it will be a number of turns before you get Perilous Vault out... so you're stuck using two removal spells for their one card so he doesn't just eat you alive. And Siege Rhino decks are a thing right now.
Abzan has been a rough matchup for me, as well as big creatures in general, but that's why I've been running Fated Conflagration, Voyage's End, and Dragon's Eye Savants in the main deck. They help buy enough time to get Perilous Vault online. Here's the list I'm running.
I'm not a big fan of Prognostic Sphinx or Pearl Lake Ancient. Neither of them have helped me gain control of the board, or come back from situations where I'm behind. They only seem to help win when I'm already really far ahead of my opponent, in which case even a couple morphed creatures can do that. Jace and Sarkhan make a great team, hence the name of the deck.
I like where your list is at. The Dragon's Eye Savants is a nice choice.
The Master of the Way is interesting to me too, but I've gotten pretty sweet value out of it after scooping the lands to bounce the PL Ancient. It's a little jank, but it actually synergizes pretty well.
Took 3rd place at FNM the other night. Here's a brief summary of matchups.
Round 1 vs. U/W Heroic 1-2
He won game 1. Game 2 was much more manageable to me, likely because I went first. Game 3 he went first again. Games 1 and 3 weren't runaways for him, but he was just simply able to constantly keep his creatures protected and refill his hand with draw through Dig and Cruise. I don't feel too bad about the loss here, as this player went on to take 1st place.
Round 2 vs. Mardu warrior aggro 2-0
He had multiple things that died to Anger of the Gods, then I just had to deal with a few Butchers through Conflagrations, counters, and bounce. Drop some planeswalkers/Keranos and rode them to victory. I sideboarded nothing, and he sideboarded in more creatures, which didn't work out for him.
Round 3 vs. Sultai Self-mill 2-0
I consider this one of my best matchups, with maindeck Angers and Vaults to clear his board (90% of his creatures die to Anger), and saving the counters for Whip of Erebos. Game 2 I brought in Negates and Burn Aways, the latter of which just made the game even easier to control.
Round 4 vs. G/B budget devotion 2-0
He didn't have as many of the common threats that green devotion decks are known for, but did have some beefy guys I needed to counter nonetheless. He didn't really have a sideboard for me, so there were no mistcutter hydras I had to condend with. In both games he really overextended into my Perilous Vaults, and by that I mean I had a Vault on the field I was already planning on popping, then he plays more cards for me to remove. Given we were both 2-1 at this point I don't think he was that bad of a player, but it was clear during the match (and after when he was chatting with me) that was very unprepared to deal with this sort of control deck.
Round 5 vs. U/r/b mill control 2-0
This was a very weird game against a very unusual deck, but it was obviously working well for us to be meeting in the final round. Wall of Frost, Chasm Skulker, Phenax, God of Deception and Bident of Thasa were some of his main cards. Peeking at his hand with a bunch of Savants, I saw he had a bunch of Walls of Frost and Phenax. I had a Vault on the table and he also had a wall and a Bident. I needed to sacrifice something to my Vault to get him to bring Phenax out, and the bait was Keranos, but not before he milled me for 7, which took away my 2nd Jace (1st was Thoughseized), both Sarkhans, and my Spellsnatcher. At this point I was wondering how I could win the game, then I drew Mindswipe and brought him down to 4, realizing my second MindSwipe was in the graveyard. A Magma Jet brought him to 2, then I found my final creature in the deck, Dragon's Eye Savants. However, I couldn't use it right away because another Wall of Frost was blocking my path, so first I had to use another Vault. I allowed him to fetch whatever he wanted with a Lilliana Vess because he was already topdecking, and I had a Dissolve in hand to stop whatever he drew. So I morphed the Savants, countered his card, then attacked for victory. It was a very silly ending, but loads of fun.
Game 2 I kept a risky hand of 5 lands and 2 morph creatures. The Spellsnatcher got Thoughtzeized away, then I drew Chasm Skulker, catching my opponent way off guard while had got mana screwed. A few turns later and several 1/1 unblockable squids finished off the last few points of his health.
I have been playing U/B control for the past few months, but I have grown a little weary so I thought I would attempt a little color change. I have been working on this for the past week or so, and as one can see it takes a lot of elements from the U/B control deck (hay, it works). The main question one could ask is, "why U/R control over U/B control?" For me it really boils down to the love of "counter-burn," but really though - all of that is wrapped up in Mindswipe.
I feel that Mindswipe is VERY much underrated at this point - and will likely only grow stronger as the format expands. In this shell IE "counter-burn," Mindswipe acts as a way to increase the presure why you wait for you're BIG BOMBS IE Pearl Lake Ancient or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - though the main reason I have Sarkhan in the deck is for some added board control.
Anyway, I would love some input on what I have thus far.
Thanks!
2x Pearl Lake Ancient
Plainswalkers:
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Instant:
1x AEtherspouts
4x Dig Through Time
4x Dissolve
2x Fated Conflagration
3x Jace's Ingenuity
4x Lightning Strike
4x Mindswipe
Sorcery:
4x Anger of the Gods
4x Perilous Vault
Lands:
1x Evolving Wilds
2x Flooded Strand
4x Island
5x Mountain
3x Radiant Fountain
4x Swiftwater Cliffs
4x Temple of Epiphany
1x Temple of Mystery
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Arc Lightning
1x Burn Away
2x Magma Spray
3x Negate
2x Prognostic Sphinx
2x Stoke the Flames
2x Wall of Frost
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
-1 AEtherspouts
-2 Fated Conflagration
-4 Perilous Vault
-2 Pearl Lake Ancient
+3 Arc Lightning
+2 Magma Spray
+2 Prognostic Sphinx
+2 Wall of Frost
Thus far its been working out rather well, though I am sure there is some room for improvement (always is). I have found though in many of my matches in testing that Mindswipe ends up winning more games than most. As for what you mentioned about the win cons, you are right they are "varied," I have actually been thinking about dropping Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker from the deck completely and relying on Pearl Lake Ancient and Mindswipe to finish the job for me - thoughts?
You mentioned Magma Jet over Lightning Strike, I agree completely. I just kinda wanted to go over rather than under for testing phase - then smooth it out once I see how things work.
I'd replace. Also I went 3-1 and got top 4 last week at FNM with U/R control
Why no Keranos?
Daniel
I have to agree with this. From experience, one of the biggest advantages to playing U/R is Keranos. He's near impossible to remove, and gives inevitability. He also turns a lot of your a lot of your removal in red into a far more efficient spell. Lightning Strike can remove almost anything in the format with Keranos in play. Equally, he's a house against Aggro, as after you've spent a ton of resources getting the board stabalize he'll hit the board and either shoot their creatures or give you an impossible to remove win con. Give the nature of Red's removal, you will often find yourself 2-for-1'ing yourself fairly often early in the game, and Keranos makes that far more palatable.
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
4x Anger of the Gods
2x Mindswipe
3x Dissolve
1x Dissipate
4x Steam Augury
4x Dig Through Time
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Perilous Vault
1x Aetherspouts
4x Swiftwater Cliffs
4x Shivan Reef
4x Temple of Epiphany
4x Island
4x Mountain
2x Evolving Wilds
3x Disdainful Stroke
3x Negate
1x Pearl Lake Ancient
1x Aetherspouts
1x Perilous Vault
2x Wall of Frost
2x Magma Spray
2x Mindswipe
I've been wrecking people with it for the last month. My meta isn't terribly Rhino heavy, so I don't have as many answers to that style of deck, but the flex slot in the deck is definitely the Lightning Strike, which could easily be Fated Conflagration and/or Perilous Vault.
Steam Augury is a large reason to be in these colors, it turns on Dig faster and due to our redundancy we usually get good stuff.
Prognostic Sphinx is a great finisher in this style of deck, because it can come down when we have an opening and be hard to remove, as well as setting us up to finish out the game with the Scry trigger.
The only deck that I've lost to is Temur aggro/midrange, because of how good Savage Knuckleblade is against my current configuration.
DDFT UBWR
Tinfins
Back to back turn 1 kills at SCG St. Louis:
http://blip.tv/scglive/scgstl-leg-rd-8-logan-creen-vs-joe-skirmont-6602155
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Pearl Lake Ancient
Instant: 23
1x AEtherspouts
4x Dig Through Time
4x Dissolve
3x Jace's Ingenuity
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
3x Mindswipe
4x Anger of the Gods
Artifacts: 4
4x Perilous Vault
Lands: 26
1x Evolving Wilds
5x Island
5x Mountain
3x Radiant Fountain
4x Shivan Reef
4x Swiftwater Cliffs
4x Temple of Epiphany
3x Arc Lightning
1x Burn Away
2x Magma Spray
3x Negate
2x Prognostic Sphinx
2x Stoke the Flames
2x Wall of Frost
Control decks are usually kinda boring for me, but the idea of it being U/R, which is such an uncommon choice of colors (mostly because it hasn't been competitive in standard for quite a while) makes it much more interesting.
Dictate of the Twin Gods brings a lot of "adrenaline" into a match as well so I'm trying to make it work. Keranos, God of Storms is VERY cool with Magma Jet.
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Draw & Removal 32
4 Dig Through Time
1 Quiet Contemplation
3 Hordeling Outburst
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Mindswipe
1 Cranial Archive
2 AEtherspouts
2 Jace's Ingenuity
3 Stoke the Flames
2 Dictate of the Twin Gods
4 Dissolve
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Flooded Strand
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Temple of Epiphany
5 Island
9 Mountain
A few questions. Without decent life gain in the deck (which is completely absent in UR excepting the life gain lands), how do you plan to stand up against aggro/burn decks? All they have to do is get you close with their fast early creatures, which will usually drop you to <10 within the first 3-4 turns, and then it's a matter of time with all the burn spells. Why Jace's Ingenuity over Divination? Jace's Ingenuity is a later game draw strategy, as is Dig Through Time, so you'll most likely run out of steam early if you're really have to work to keep your opponent at bay. The only time it's super useful is if you didn't have a play turn 5 so you can do the "end of your turn draw" thing. But then, you'll most likely want that mana to activate Perilous Vault... Additionally, some people have mentioned Steam Augury, which is a guaranteed 2 or 3 card draw with fuel for your Dig for one less mana also at instant speed. Might be worth considering. And what are you gonna do when your Abzan opponent is on the play and they drop a Siege Rhino T3 after a Caryatid T2?? You'll only have two mana, so neither of your counterspells work, and it will be a number of turns before you get Perilous Vault out... so you're stuck using two removal spells for their one card so he doesn't just eat you alive. And Siege Rhino decks are a thing right now.
Just a few thoughts for you to consider.
Daniel
2 Pearl Lake Ancient
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Lands (26)
4 Island
6 Mountain
3 Radiant Fountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Malice
1 Perilous Vault
4 Dig Through Time
2 Disdainful Stroke
4 Dissolve
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
4 Steam Augury
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Master the Way
4 Haunted Plate Mail
3 Magma Spray
2 Negate
4 Stubborn Denial
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Anger of the Gods
Aggro is one of the easier matchups for U/R control. We have Magma Jet, Lightning Strike, and Anger of the Gods to answer early creatures. Life gain lands and counters do a pretty decent job of stopping them from burning us out.
Personally, I don't recommend Augury, Ingenuity, or Divination. I run Font of Fortunes instead. You can drop it turn 2 if nothing else is going on, then pop it whenever you don't need to counter something. You can also play a font on turn 5 with Dissolve mana up. It's very flexible. The other 3 options are not as flexible. Augury needs 4 mana in one shot, and often times I find myself needing to draw and Dissolve something in the same turn, which can't happen until you have 7 mana if you're using Augury, and this deck often can't wait that long to be playing its first draw spell.
Abzan has been a rough matchup for me, as well as big creatures in general, but that's why I've been running Fated Conflagration, Voyage's End, and Dragon's Eye Savants in the main deck. They help buy enough time to get Perilous Vault online. Here's the list I'm running.
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Dragon's Eye Savants
1 Kheru Spellsnatcher
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Other Spells (26)
4 Magma Jet
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Fated Conflagration
4 Dissolve
2 Voyage's End
2 Mindswipe
3 Font of Fortunes
3 Dig Through Time
3 Perilous Vault
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
4 Temple of Epiphany
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Radiant Fountain
6 Mountain
8 Island
2 Nullify
2 Lightning Strike
3 Negate
2 Hordeling Outburst
2 Burn Away
2 Chasm Skulker
1 Font of Fortunes
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
I'm not a big fan of Prognostic Sphinx or Pearl Lake Ancient. Neither of them have helped me gain control of the board, or come back from situations where I'm behind. They only seem to help win when I'm already really far ahead of my opponent, in which case even a couple morphed creatures can do that. Jace and Sarkhan make a great team, hence the name of the deck.
Depends on the match-up. Mono red aggro burn, you are probably right. RW aggro burn, they use Gods Willing to prevent removal. The popular Esper control deck from pre-rotation included Elixir of Immortality as strong life gain and graveyard recycling. Absent that card, many control decks are now using Nyx-Fleece Ram and even some try late game Resolute Archangel to help stave off demise.
Font is good, but it's still a 4 mana for 2 cards if you want to play and activate same turn. I understand the benefit of being able to delay the draw, but it's hard to argue with two cards for three mana. Unless you see them ramping into something (like the aforementioned Siege Rhino), most decks don't have T3 cards that are worth countering and usually don't have enough board presence for Anger of the Gods to be effective. And then late game, you're probably not gonna play Font and wait to draw, so now you're spending four mana instead of three, and UU at that.
I hope you don't use Voyage's End on Siege Rhino... I typically don't like seeing bounce cards maindeck, but if your primary purpose is to stall into a Perilous Vault, that can work.
The planeswalkers are good additions. I ran them playing Narset Control (primary win con was get Narset on board and use her trigger to beat the snot out of them with Jeskai Charms, Stoke the Flames, and Lightning Strikes) as well as Chandra, Pyromancer. Not sure about Kheru Spellsnatcher though. That's a lot of mana just to sneak a spell away from your opponent, especially when it's vulnerable to your mass removal.
Daniel
Against white based aggro decks, I usually cast my Magma Jets and Conflagrations on my turn if they're tapped out to prevent any shenanigans with Gods Willing. Heck, even if they do use it in response, at least they're using it on my turn, so they prowess trigger of Seeker of the Way goes to waste.
If I'm on the draw, I would want 3 mana for Dissolve available for my opponent's turn 4 Polukranos, Siege Rhino, or especially Whip of Erebos, all of which are bad news for this deck should they resolve. On the play I would want Dissolve mana up for Brimaz, Courser of Kruphix, or just having mana to Magma Jet a Seeker of the way or Goblin Rabblemaster. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to tap out on turn 3 for a divination, but tapping out on turn 2 is often not a problem, then I can pop the Font whenever it becomes convenient.
Turn 3 Angers can be good if they're wiping out say a Bloodsoaked Champion + any other creature, or an Elvish Mystic + Sylvan Caryatid (usually won't do that on turn 3 unless my opponent missed a land drop, then I definitely would do it).
Yeah, Voyage's End is more to help against large early threats like Brimaz, heroic creature that's getting out of range of burn, or Ensoul Artifact. I'm also trying it as a way to buy time against opposing Pearl Lake Ancients. The last time I went to FNM, I found myself siding them in almost every round (and wishing I had them game one), so I thought they deserved a maindeck spot. I'll see how it goes.
Honestly I have yet to snatch any spells with it, and I often don't have the full 9 mana when I first morph him. But one thing is for sure, I have been in a very comfortable spot as a control player when I untap with a Spellsnatcher face down. Running different morph creatures always keeps my opponent guessing, even if they know I have Savants and Spellsnatcher, they're still never sure which one I'm putting down. It's also amusing to see them waste a removal spell (and likely their turn) killing my Savants while I get a free look at their hand. It becomes even more amusing when a Keranos or something reveals a morph card to my opponent, and then I put a creature face down. Also, when I get to the point of playing the Spellsnatcher, I generally won't be needing to cast Anger of the Gods anymore, and if I ever was in a position where I'm casting Anger with my Spellsnatcher out there, then I must have really needed the board wipe and it would still be putting me at an advantage.
I actually kinda like it, but the Master of the Way is a very interesting choice indeed. I LOVE the card Haunted Plate Mail in the SB though, been wanting to find a reason to use em for the longest time 8D
Thoughts?
2x Pearl Lake Ancient
2x Prognostic Sphinx
Instant: 24
4x Dig Through Time
4x Dissolve
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Fated Conflagration
4x Lightning Strike
2x Magma Jet
2x Mindswipe
4x Steam Augury
4x Anger of the Gods
Artifacts: 2
2x Perilous Vault
Lands: 26
1x Evolving Wilds
5x Island
5x Mountain
3x Radiant Fountain
4x Shivan Reef
4x Swiftwater Cliffs
4x Temple of Epiphany
2x Arc Lightning
2x Burn Away
1x Keranos, God of Storms
3x Magma Spray
2x Negate
2x Perilous Vault
3x ????
Personal Notes
Courser's are just the worst as they will bury you in card advantage and swing. Ashiok is also terrible if it gets resolved as it is extremely hard to get it off the table if it's not countered and you don't have Fated Conflagration especially first game. Dictate of the twin gods I think, is a really good card and wish I ran more than 1 in my 75. All of your jets and burns become insanely powerful and nothing will survive your Anger of the gods.
Resolved and protected Haunted Platemail was my MVP though. That card did some serious work and my best games were when it went to the red zone. Master the way wasn't too bad, just sucks that it is a sorcery as dealing 5-7 damage straight up is good albeit slow. Burn away was amazing against any whip decks and a staple in the SB or "one of" in the main.
My games against straight black/X control were laughably bad as I got destroyed straight up to a 5 card mulligan on the play with Ashiok and was on the defensive after getting thoughtseized to hell and back. I really think this deck is a meta call for an aggro infested scene and with lots of Sidisi/Abzan whip decks or control decks I don't think I'd sleeve it up again. I feel strongly about a transformative SB if I were to try it out again. Anyways, my 2 cents.
I like where your list is at. The Dragon's Eye Savants is a nice choice.
Round 1 vs. U/W Heroic 1-2
He won game 1. Game 2 was much more manageable to me, likely because I went first. Game 3 he went first again. Games 1 and 3 weren't runaways for him, but he was just simply able to constantly keep his creatures protected and refill his hand with draw through Dig and Cruise. I don't feel too bad about the loss here, as this player went on to take 1st place.
Round 2 vs. Mardu warrior aggro 2-0
He had multiple things that died to Anger of the Gods, then I just had to deal with a few Butchers through Conflagrations, counters, and bounce. Drop some planeswalkers/Keranos and rode them to victory. I sideboarded nothing, and he sideboarded in more creatures, which didn't work out for him.
Round 3 vs. Sultai Self-mill 2-0
I consider this one of my best matchups, with maindeck Angers and Vaults to clear his board (90% of his creatures die to Anger), and saving the counters for Whip of Erebos. Game 2 I brought in Negates and Burn Aways, the latter of which just made the game even easier to control.
Round 4 vs. G/B budget devotion 2-0
He didn't have as many of the common threats that green devotion decks are known for, but did have some beefy guys I needed to counter nonetheless. He didn't really have a sideboard for me, so there were no mistcutter hydras I had to condend with. In both games he really overextended into my Perilous Vaults, and by that I mean I had a Vault on the field I was already planning on popping, then he plays more cards for me to remove. Given we were both 2-1 at this point I don't think he was that bad of a player, but it was clear during the match (and after when he was chatting with me) that was very unprepared to deal with this sort of control deck.
Round 5 vs. U/r/b mill control 2-0
This was a very weird game against a very unusual deck, but it was obviously working well for us to be meeting in the final round. Wall of Frost, Chasm Skulker, Phenax, God of Deception and Bident of Thasa were some of his main cards. Peeking at his hand with a bunch of Savants, I saw he had a bunch of Walls of Frost and Phenax. I had a Vault on the table and he also had a wall and a Bident. I needed to sacrifice something to my Vault to get him to bring Phenax out, and the bait was Keranos, but not before he milled me for 7, which took away my 2nd Jace (1st was Thoughseized), both Sarkhans, and my Spellsnatcher. At this point I was wondering how I could win the game, then I drew Mindswipe and brought him down to 4, realizing my second MindSwipe was in the graveyard. A Magma Jet brought him to 2, then I found my final creature in the deck, Dragon's Eye Savants. However, I couldn't use it right away because another Wall of Frost was blocking my path, so first I had to use another Vault. I allowed him to fetch whatever he wanted with a Lilliana Vess because he was already topdecking, and I had a Dissolve in hand to stop whatever he drew. So I morphed the Savants, countered his card, then attacked for victory. It was a very silly ending, but loads of fun.
Game 2 I kept a risky hand of 5 lands and 2 morph creatures. The Spellsnatcher got Thoughtzeized away, then I drew Chasm Skulker, catching my opponent way off guard while had got mana screwed. A few turns later and several 1/1 unblockable squids finished off the last few points of his health.