This is Junk Hexproof! A hexproof deck that allows you to interact with your opponent in a very proactive manner.
The deck is still at its core a "Voltron" stack the house on an Hexproof creature and beat face style deck.
Now with the ability to effectively and economically deal with annoying permanents your opponent deploys.
The recent turn to a Naya shell has allowed for a more forceful application of this.
I believe the limited success is due to its inability to deal with either better creatures and sweepers.
By going into Black it allows you to get into an excellent removal package and sweeper resilience.
CREATURES
Gladecover Scout : 1/1 Hexproof for 1cmc 2-3 enchantments on it and its usually ends games turn 4-5 Sylvan Caryatid : 0/3 Hexproof Mana Dork stalls out fast weenie strats, fixes mana. Voice of Resurgence : Spoils your opponents EoT plans, fights removal PITA to deal with, maybe kinda forgotten about in current meta. Witchstalker : The Heavy Hitter 3/3 Hexproof that can potentially grow out of control vs. the 2 most popular Colors in the current Meta. Fiendslayer Paladin : Pseudo hexproof, lifelink and first strike are also pluses.
Abrupt Decay : This is the main reason to go into B IT REMOVES 80% of ALL RELEVANT PERMANENTS!!!
Cut and dry best removal for cards in play in the current meta. Thoughtseize The other main reason to go into Black. Best overall Removal in the game hands down. B and 2 life I get the best card in your hand and info, good at just about anytime in the game.
UTILITY
CHARMS This will generally be where I rotate charms as per each match up dictates. I feel it is a great flex spot for this deck Orzhov Charmafter a recent suggestion from WWWackyson I agree all 3 modes are extremely relevant and it deserves a spot in the deck.
I like golgari charm to protect against the wrath effects.
Also read the bones would be good. I like Hopeful Eidolon over the Paladin because the Paladin will be hard to cast, and it works with the other enchantments. The Witchstalker turn 3, then the Eidolon turn 4 would work well.
Since I play both GW hexproof and have been trying to get a working version of the Rock up and running in Standard, I threw this deck together to experiment with it last night. Didn't get to play too much, but from what I could tell it has a serious lack of board presence. Too many small creatures, not enough enchants, and the inclusion of disruption, while nice, doesn't make up for the lack of viable threats on the board.
I'm interested to see how you do at the PTQ though, to see if your experience mirrors my own, or if you found it working differently.
I have been running a version of Junk hexproof online now for some time, and it seems to be working fairly well. Haven't had time for dailies, but here is the list I am running for reference.
A few things. commune with the gods is amazing. Fixes the problem of consistency that the old bant list had (i.e. too many creatures and not enough enchantments/too many enchantments and not enough creatures). It also synergizes extremely well with varolz, which was my primary motivation for going with black over blue. Few things are sicker than scavenging a fleecemane lion on to a blood baron or fiendslayer paladin. Varolz also can regenerate from board wipes. Boon satyr's are probably the best things in this deck. Gives our guys a necessary bump in power.
The deck plays more like midrange than aggro. How it tends to work, with the exception of a nut draw gladecover scout, is beating with non targetable lifelinkers that just get bigger and bigger as the game goes on. Hence, why removal is not as necessary. I'm currently experimenting with heliod, though I may want to go back to a third gift of orzhova. Though rare, there are times when the evasion is necessary to close out the game.
PTQ went really bad, first match was against American Control and all his removal was sweepers and I mana flooded game 2. Second round WW splash B, Exact issue that OvercastNight brought up, just sheer lack of board presence against aggro/swarm style decks. Game 2 went to a board stall due to not recognizing that I should have been forcing my Voices though and either force the block and make huge tokens or just eat the 2 on the chin as I couldnt draw a ench to save my life. Deck needs some thing new to help it out as it is just a little lack luster right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
I've just brewed this after coming up with the idea of transposing the Bogle Hexproof (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=498246) to modern because there are still some pretty awesome auras in standard rotation currently. The deck's pretty self explainatory. Play Hoplite or Leader and then enchant them with lots of enchantments. Gods Willing is a pro at protecting the creatures. I liked splashing for black for Thoughtseize, Downfall and Decay because of their ability to disrupt, but there didn't seem to be many great black enchantments. I like the majority of the cards in there, save for Forced Adaptation and Scourgemark, which just feels a little slow. If anyone has any suggestions they would be much appreciated! I like this deck as an idea but I want to also make it playable.
To the OP, gladecover scout is really questionable in a build where you either draw ethereal armor or it just won't grow large enough due to a lack of a critical mass of enchantments. Say, 2 gift of orzhova... is pretty subpar. Lifelink is cool but you need the oomph to match and it is lacking in that sense unless you draw the ethereal armor. To RunFromManbear, same except add boon satyr in the category with ethereal armor.
Going black is giving you some removal but in exchange, you're losing enchantment critical mass. Naya's red gave madcap skills, for example.
Here's what I've been running lately. The deck doesn't aim to voltron the crap out of a few guys, it aims to survive with low CC creatures and a bit of removal, lifegain here and there.. and then drop one unanswerable fatty (flying witchstalker, trampling reaper, etc). As such, it only runs 8 enchantments. It's BGw, with white only hanging around for unflinching courage and future sideboard options. Lotleth Troll and caryatids either chump well against aggressive decks while I get removal/fatties online, or pressure and ramp against midrangey decks. Reaper comes down early against aggressive decks and uses the 5 toughness or pretends to be aetherling against control/midrange. Witchstalker just runs out whenever it fits. Chump if he has to, but often as my finisher against aggressive decks, since I've been tapping out all game I can generally drop witchstalker + gift to start swinging back into the game over their heads. Golgari charm generally saves my guys, but I'm not above wiping out tokens or even halting ramp on the play by taking down their opening elf (can totally save you against RG ramp). Read the Bones helps me find answers, which I often need in a hurry. Oh, and no mystics. I use tons of land that enters tapped so first turn ramp isn't guaranteed, and I need better defense early on against aggro. Caryatid solves both issues and helps with my little bit of white splash.
I've been doing pretty well against BBDs RG variant, but I haven't had many test matches against other decks yet. Monoblack is surely a pain.
Ive been working on a junk hexproof deck for a while now. I agree we are shy on a critical mass for certain aspects but against the top decks it performs well.
Now there has been a lot of flux on what Ive been testing lately but so far this works "pretty well". My main board is probably overly focused vs mono black and under focused vs mono blue.
The main-deck-tech :
Golgari Charm : All 3 modes are amazing in multiple matchups it is worth at least 2 of in main IMO
-1/-1 : will wipe master + tokens, puts a hurt on almost half of white weenie creatures (for now) For most decks the best option is multi-blocking, this can be great for that!
regen : great for attacking blocking or regening through an anger/overloaded mortars/verdict/elspeth
enchantment destruction : bident, underworld connections, hammer, whip, chained to the rocks, plenty of misc targets
Selesnya Charm : Again all 3 modes are viable in plenty of matchups, worth at least 2 in main.
+2/+2 : Helps punch damage through (esp in this enchant-light deck)
Knight : Save your volton from devour flesh, or flash a needed blocker.
Exile : Hits gods and lots of green monsters really well
Orzhov Charm : All 3 modes again usefull, at least 1 in main probably.
Kill : Punch the last damage through with trample, get rid of a problem creature
Bounce : Obvious interaction here
Reanimate : Again a savior mostly for devour flesh on an already dead gladecover. Or in late game end-of-turn return the cover and then a couple pants in hand.
All of the charms I feel are very important but I think that there might be a larger need for enchantment critical-mass happening. There isnt much left to go with though, and nothing compared to madcap on turn 2, or an aqueous form any-time. Dying Wish is a possibility but its a horrible follow up to a turn 1 gladecover. The black charms are far better than blue or red version of the charms. Azorius Charm for dropping a creature on top can be great, and the boros double strike again can be great no denying that.
Id love to see some feedback from what other people think. I know the GW scryland will give a huge power-boost to the deck. Right now I run 24 lands to be able to hit 3 lands on 3 fairly consistently even on a mull down to 5.
A couple of the changes I have been thinking about :
Drop 1 of each charm from main for the last of the Gift of Orzhova + Unflinching Courage.
Finding room for 2-3 Dying wish. While this doesnt help our early game, this deck is not trying to kill on turn 4-5. We have the tech to go late game and this should just be an even bigger boon to that. If we can put on some early pressure and land one of these it makes it hard to even board-wipe against a Witchstalker + Ethereal Armor + Unflinching Courage when we land a Dying Wish.
Dropping the curve a ton by losing the Reapers / Barons / Boon Satyrs. Add in dark favors to keep the pressure up.
Gift of orzhova is necessary for the evasion that it grants moreso than the lifelink. We aren't playing blue and do not have access invisible stalker. That and since we are playing a little bit longer a game than we used to with geist and stalker the lifelink is much more relevant. To those looking for more resillance and already running commune with the gods, test the deck with a couple copies of varolz.
Varolz can regenerate from board wipes and gives us another way to pump our hexproof guys. In my build, I run a singleton blood baron and two fiendslayer paladins and more often than not, it is varolz that turns them into game ending threats. Also, there are many times while playing where I had an opponent use a supreme verdict only to get slapped by an 8/8 varolz the next turn.
So my two favorite decks currently are GW Hexproof Auras and The Rock. Now, the problems of reaching critical mass with Hexproof Auras given the current paltry selection of creatures are evident. When Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker are our best options, there are problems. The days of Invisible Stalker and Geist are long gone.
But my current iteration of The Rock runs several resilient creatures with interesting graveyard interactions. Namely, Varolz, who has already been mentioned in this thread, and Lotleth Troll. Both of whom are far more threatening than anything being run in the various Hexproof decklists (with the sole exception of a few rogue Blood Barons).
So what if we give up on the Hexproof idea, and focus more on just using resilient creatures. Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Lotleth Troll and Varolz, the Scar-Striped are all very resilient creatures, and the latter two can regenerate through a sweeper. Yes, it makes us more vulnerable to Azorius Charm and Detention Sphere, but I feel it may be an even trade off. Besides, we have Skylasher and/or Mistcutter Hydra still, both of which are more than enough to take down MUD and WU Control.
So I think I'm going to try and merge the Rock and Hexproof concepts and see what comes of it. Going GB, maybe GBw and see if Voltron can be assembled with resilient creatures, just not hexproof ones. And if we can still include that lovely GB removal which players hate seeing so very much. I'll get back here with a decklist once I'm home from work and can put something together.
So my two favorite decks currently are GW Hexproof Auras and The Rock. Now, the problems of reaching critical mass with Hexproof Auras given the current paltry selection of creatures are evident. When Gladecover Scout and Witchstalker are our best options, there are problems. The days of Invisible Stalker and Geist are long gone.
But my current iteration of The Rock runs several resilient creatures with interesting graveyard interactions. Namely, Varolz, who has already been mentioned in this thread, and Lotleth Troll. Both of whom are far more threatening than anything being run in the various Hexproof decklists (with the sole exception of a few rogue Blood Barons).
So what if we give up on the Hexproof idea, and focus more on just using resilient creatures. Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Lotleth Troll and Varolz, the Scar-Striped are all very resilient creatures, and the latter two can regenerate through a sweeper. Yes, it makes us more vulnerable to Azorius Charm and Detention Sphere, but I feel it may be an even trade off. Besides, we have Skylasher and/or Mistcutter Hydra still, both of which are more than enough to take down MUD and WU Control.
So I think I'm going to try and merge the Rock and Hexproof concepts and see what comes of it. Going GB, maybe GBw and see if Voltron can be assembled with resilient creatures, just not hexproof ones. And if we can still include that lovely GB removal which players hate seeing so very much. I'll get back here with a decklist once I'm home from work and can put something together.
check out the list i was working on above. i also played around with golgari control, and i've been messing with merging the two. definitely looking to butt heads on the problem.
lotleth troll and golgari charm already made the move, and i'd like to get thoughtseize integrated as well.
Well, considering this thread is called junk "hexproof", perhaps if we should move the value creature discussion to that thread?
On a related note... Varolz synergizes incredibly well with our hexproof targets. Granted, not every creature is hexproof in the deck nor needs to be, but at least in my build, Varolz came about because he synergizez with commune with the gods which I wanted to run anyways to improve consistency. Varolz provides a permanent boost to whatever we target with him, whether that's a blood baron (which is SICK when it works), fiendslayer paladin (also AWESOME), or just a beefy witchstalker. Here is my list for reference.
From my testing in these kinds of builds, as far as naya goes - you can't beat madcap skills.
But I've found in the this type of deck, every creature is a threat whether it has evasion or not. So I compounded my efforts with fencing ace.
It comes online turn two, but that double strike will put you ahead or at least on par - with trample the thing is insane.
I did have a build that ran the varolz and/or lotleth troll. I ran into the usual problem of Azorius Charm and Detention Sphere too many times.
I wouldnt put it past (my build noted above) running a few in the sideboard for the non-control matchups, but I dont really have problems with those matchups anyway.
Varolz in a deck like this still performs sub-par for what possibilities he does have. The only considerable (for hexproof side) creature to throw in that would be power/cmc > 1 ratio is fleecemane lion. While this isnt bad, to squeeze in fleecemanes and varolz would mean to drop some otherwise also resilient threats.
I think Im going to try change my build up to run Fleecemane Lions over Gladecovers because fleecemane is a FAR better late-game topdeck. We have plenty of EBT lands that most decks are running anyway. If this were the case I would probably drop orzhov charms from the main-board (golgari charm does fine in its place 95% of the time) because the reanimator effect would never have a target. Going for the late-game and higher power creatures makes me want to play dying wish even more though. So that our worst-case with it would be a late-game (preferably monstrous) fleecemane getting one dropped on it meaning 8 total life swing from it dieing (far/away devour flesh only at that point).
From my testing in these kinds of builds, as far as naya goes - you can't beat madcap skills.
But I've found in the this type of deck, every creature is a threat whether it has evasion or not. So I compounded my efforts with fencing ace.
It comes online turn two, but that double strike will put you ahead or at least on par - with trample the thing is insane.
I dont disagree with the power level of naya / bant hexproof decks. The funny thing is if they REALLY do pick up that much the orzhov version just destroys them. It is basically all thanks to golgari charm too.
Being able to kill enchantments with golgari charm just make these "mirror" matches horrible for the non-junk decks.
Madcap being blown up late game when you thought they didnt have blocks. -1/-1 wiping out a madcapped gladecover (even through boros charm... let alone what happens if we -1 in response to boros charm double strike).
Destroy an unflinching courage allows (more often than not) to chump-block, possibly for victory.
Detention Sphere isnt great in the mirror because other than aqueous form (maybe gift of orzhova too) we run the same enchantments. To note also is that if you do pop one of our enchantments we can recover it at instant speed now.
Access to Erebos is also killer in a mirror match where its harder for you to race when you cant gain life. (Dont worry he will probably never be a creature to be hit by selesnya charm anyway)
In regards to the fencing ace option, I agree that it is viable and will be giving a try myself this evening. However, I also wonder if fabled hero may also have a place in here as well...
I am also in agreeance about golgari charm. Every mode is useful, and it is by far our best choice for charms in this deck. Orzhov charm seemingly under performed and selesnya charm was sub par.
My list only runs them in the side as needed, though I am begining to question that as there were times they would have come in handy. My reasoning behind this is like a combo deck, game 1 I want to present the best options for my deck to win without interacting and sideboard as needed.
3-1 the daily event last night with my build. Stomped a mono red aggro deck. Won against bw devotion because a 14/12 witchstalker with lifelink trample and flying is better than blood baron. Lost against a ur devotion deck in two close matches, but alas, stormbreath dragon, boros reckoner, and fanatic of mogis took me down before things could get rolling. Glare of heresy also played a huge role in the two post board games, elminating my unflinching courages. Finally, stomped gr monstrous deck with gift of orzhova primarily.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is Junk Hexproof! A hexproof deck that allows you to interact with your opponent in a very proactive manner.
The deck is still at its core a "Voltron" stack the house on an Hexproof creature and beat face style deck.
Now with the ability to effectively and economically deal with annoying permanents your opponent deploys.
The recent turn to a Naya shell has allowed for a more forceful application of this.
I believe the limited success is due to its inability to deal with either better creatures and sweepers.
By going into Black it allows you to get into an excellent removal package and sweeper resilience.
CREATURES
Sylvan Caryatid : 0/3 Hexproof Mana Dork stalls out fast weenie strats, fixes mana.
Voice of Resurgence : Spoils your opponents EoT plans, fights removal PITA to deal with, maybe kinda forgotten about in current meta.
Witchstalker : The Heavy Hitter 3/3 Hexproof that can potentially grow out of control vs. the 2 most popular Colors in the current Meta.
Fiendslayer Paladin : Pseudo hexproof, lifelink and first strike are also pluses.
ENCHANTMENTS
Unflintching Courage : Does its best Rancor impression and the Lifelink is very relevant.
Gift of Orzhova : Evasion and Lifelink, this with Ethereal Armor is the just as good as a single Unflintching Courage
REMOVAL
Cut and dry best removal for cards in play in the current meta.
Thoughtseize The other main reason to go into Black. Best overall Removal in the game hands down. B and 2 life I get the best card in your hand and info, good at just about anytime in the game.
UTILITY
Orzhov Charmafter a recent suggestion from WWWackyson I agree all 3 modes are extremely relevant and it deserves a spot in the deck.
SIDEBOARD
Dark Betrayal : Great against Mono B Devo.
Golgari Charm : Most effectively used as sweeper resilience, but all 3 modes are very relevant.
Hero's Downfall : Mainly for Planeswalker control as the BB can be a bit tricky getting some times.
Selesnya Charm : This is another form of removal mainly for Thassa, God of the Sea, Erebos, God of the Dead, Polukranos, World Eater, Desecration Demon and the occasional Obzedat, Ghost Council. It can push some extra damage through. Flashing in a sacrificial lamb, as Devour Flesh will be the most effective way to try and deal with our hexproof brigade can be huge.
Glare of Heresy: Det. Sphere, Elspeth, Obzedat, Reckoner, Soldier of the Pantheon, etc.
Devour Flesh : Mirror and the evil BBoV i.e. Blood Baron of Vizkopa
My Current Deck List
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Witchstalker
2x Fiendslayer Paladin
ENCHANTMENTS
4x Ethereal Armor
3x Gift of Orzhova
3x Unflinching Courage
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Orzhov Charm
4x Thoughtseize
LAND
5x Forest
2x Swamp
4x Godless Shrine
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Silence
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Golgari Charm
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Selesnya Charm
2x Glare of Heresy
2x Devour Flesh
2x Mistcutter Hydra
1x Abrupt Decay
***EDIT FORTH COMING***Deck is in slight revision and am waiting for Born to fully spoil to see what can help out. I will update primer soon after.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Have you done any testing yet?
4 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Witchstalker
4 Boon Satyr
2 Selesnya Charm
3 Putrefy
3 Ultimate Price
4 Unflinching Courage
5 Forest
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple Garden
4 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Golgari Guildgate
3 Sin Collector
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Skylasher
2 Golgari Charm
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Gifts of Orzhova
Also read the bones would be good. I like Hopeful Eidolon over the Paladin because the Paladin will be hard to cast, and it works with the other enchantments. The Witchstalker turn 3, then the Eidolon turn 4 would work well.
I'm interested to see how you do at the PTQ though, to see if your experience mirrors my own, or if you found it working differently.
[c]Alpha Authority[/card] may be a better option than paying sub par creatures. I dunno though... Hard call.
I have been running a version of Junk hexproof online now for some time, and it seems to be working fairly well. Haven't had time for dailies, but here is the list I am running for reference.
3 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
3 Fleecemane Lion
3 Gladecover Scout
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Witchstalker
7 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Silence
4 Ethereal Armor
2 Gift of Orzhova
4 Unflinching Courage
4 Commune with the Gods
A few things. commune with the gods is amazing. Fixes the problem of consistency that the old bant list had (i.e. too many creatures and not enough enchantments/too many enchantments and not enough creatures). It also synergizes extremely well with varolz, which was my primary motivation for going with black over blue. Few things are sicker than scavenging a fleecemane lion on to a blood baron or fiendslayer paladin. Varolz also can regenerate from board wipes. Boon satyr's are probably the best things in this deck. Gives our guys a necessary bump in power.
The deck plays more like midrange than aggro. How it tends to work, with the exception of a nut draw gladecover scout, is beating with non targetable lifelinkers that just get bigger and bigger as the game goes on. Hence, why removal is not as necessary. I'm currently experimenting with heliod, though I may want to go back to a third gift of orzhova. Though rare, there are times when the evasion is necessary to close out the game.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
4x Phalanx Leader
4x Favored Hoplite
Enchantments (15):
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Gift of Orzhova
4x Unflinching Courage
4x Alpha Authority
3x Forced Adaptation
4x Gods Willing
3x Thoughtseize
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Abrupt Decay
Lands (22):
4x Temple Garden
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Godless Shrine
6x Forest
5x Plains
I've just brewed this after coming up with the idea of transposing the Bogle Hexproof (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=498246) to modern because there are still some pretty awesome auras in standard rotation currently. The deck's pretty self explainatory. Play Hoplite or Leader and then enchant them with lots of enchantments. Gods Willing is a pro at protecting the creatures. I liked splashing for black for Thoughtseize, Downfall and Decay because of their ability to disrupt, but there didn't seem to be many great black enchantments. I like the majority of the cards in there, save for Forced Adaptation and Scourgemark, which just feels a little slow. If anyone has any suggestions they would be much appreciated! I like this deck as an idea but I want to also make it playable.
Going black is giving you some removal but in exchange, you're losing enchantment critical mass. Naya's red gave madcap skills, for example.
I've been doing pretty well against BBDs RG variant, but I haven't had many test matches against other decks yet. Monoblack is surely a pain.
4 sylvan caryatid
4 lotleth troll
3 boon satyr
4 witchstalker
3 reaper of the wilds
4 gift of orzhova
4 unflinching courage
spells (10)
3 golgari charm
3 read the bones
4 hero's downfall
4 forest
1 swamp
4 golgari guildgate
4 overgrown tomb
4 orzhov guildgate
4 temple garden
3 temple of silence
Here is where I am at right now :
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Boon Satyr
2 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Witchstalker
4 Gladecover
Enchantments
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Orzhova
2 Bow of Nylea
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Golgari Charm
2 Orzhov Charm
Lands
1 Plains
7 Forests
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Blind Obedience
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sin Collector
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Holy Mantle
2 Skylasher
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Desecration Demon
Now there has been a lot of flux on what Ive been testing lately but so far this works "pretty well". My main board is probably overly focused vs mono black and under focused vs mono blue.
The main-deck-tech :
Golgari Charm : All 3 modes are amazing in multiple matchups it is worth at least 2 of in main IMO
-1/-1 : will wipe master + tokens, puts a hurt on almost half of white weenie creatures (for now) For most decks the best option is multi-blocking, this can be great for that!
regen : great for attacking blocking or regening through an anger/overloaded mortars/verdict/elspeth
enchantment destruction : bident, underworld connections, hammer, whip, chained to the rocks, plenty of misc targets
Selesnya Charm : Again all 3 modes are viable in plenty of matchups, worth at least 2 in main.
+2/+2 : Helps punch damage through (esp in this enchant-light deck)
Knight : Save your volton from devour flesh, or flash a needed blocker.
Exile : Hits gods and lots of green monsters really well
Orzhov Charm : All 3 modes again usefull, at least 1 in main probably.
Kill : Punch the last damage through with trample, get rid of a problem creature
Bounce : Obvious interaction here
Reanimate : Again a savior mostly for devour flesh on an already dead gladecover. Or in late game end-of-turn return the cover and then a couple pants in hand.
All of the charms I feel are very important but I think that there might be a larger need for enchantment critical-mass happening. There isnt much left to go with though, and nothing compared to madcap on turn 2, or an aqueous form any-time. Dying Wish is a possibility but its a horrible follow up to a turn 1 gladecover. The black charms are far better than blue or red version of the charms. Azorius Charm for dropping a creature on top can be great, and the boros double strike again can be great no denying that.
Id love to see some feedback from what other people think. I know the GW scryland will give a huge power-boost to the deck. Right now I run 24 lands to be able to hit 3 lands on 3 fairly consistently even on a mull down to 5.
A couple of the changes I have been thinking about :
Drop 1 of each charm from main for the last of the Gift of Orzhova + Unflinching Courage.
Finding room for 2-3 Dying wish. While this doesnt help our early game, this deck is not trying to kill on turn 4-5. We have the tech to go late game and this should just be an even bigger boon to that. If we can put on some early pressure and land one of these it makes it hard to even board-wipe against a Witchstalker + Ethereal Armor + Unflinching Courage when we land a Dying Wish.
Dropping the curve a ton by losing the Reapers / Barons / Boon Satyrs. Add in dark favors to keep the pressure up.
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
Varolz can regenerate from board wipes and gives us another way to pump our hexproof guys. In my build, I run a singleton blood baron and two fiendslayer paladins and more often than not, it is varolz that turns them into game ending threats. Also, there are many times while playing where I had an opponent use a supreme verdict only to get slapped by an 8/8 varolz the next turn.
Try him out over the scout, I don't think you'll be dissapointed.
But my current iteration of The Rock runs several resilient creatures with interesting graveyard interactions. Namely, Varolz, who has already been mentioned in this thread, and Lotleth Troll. Both of whom are far more threatening than anything being run in the various Hexproof decklists (with the sole exception of a few rogue Blood Barons).
So what if we give up on the Hexproof idea, and focus more on just using resilient creatures. Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Lotleth Troll and Varolz, the Scar-Striped are all very resilient creatures, and the latter two can regenerate through a sweeper. Yes, it makes us more vulnerable to Azorius Charm and Detention Sphere, but I feel it may be an even trade off. Besides, we have Skylasher and/or Mistcutter Hydra still, both of which are more than enough to take down MUD and WU Control.
So I think I'm going to try and merge the Rock and Hexproof concepts and see what comes of it. Going GB, maybe GBw and see if Voltron can be assembled with resilient creatures, just not hexproof ones. And if we can still include that lovely GB removal which players hate seeing so very much. I'll get back here with a decklist once I'm home from work and can put something together.
check out the list i was working on above. i also played around with golgari control, and i've been messing with merging the two. definitely looking to butt heads on the problem.
lotleth troll and golgari charm already made the move, and i'd like to get thoughtseize integrated as well.
On a related note... Varolz synergizes incredibly well with our hexproof targets. Granted, not every creature is hexproof in the deck nor needs to be, but at least in my build, Varolz came about because he synergizez with commune with the gods which I wanted to run anyways to improve consistency. Varolz provides a permanent boost to whatever we target with him, whether that's a blood baron (which is SICK when it works), fiendslayer paladin (also AWESOME), or just a beefy witchstalker. Here is my list for reference.
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
3 Fleecemane Lion
3 Gladecover Scout
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Witchstalker
7 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Silence
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Gift of Orzhova
4 Unflinching Courage
4 Commune with the Gods
2 fiendslayer paladin
1 blood baron of vizkopa
4 golgari charm
4 putrefy
But I've found in the this type of deck, every creature is a threat whether it has evasion or not. So I compounded my efforts with fencing ace.
It comes online turn two, but that double strike will put you ahead or at least on par - with trample the thing is insane.
I wouldnt put it past (my build noted above) running a few in the sideboard for the non-control matchups, but I dont really have problems with those matchups anyway.
Varolz in a deck like this still performs sub-par for what possibilities he does have. The only considerable (for hexproof side) creature to throw in that would be power/cmc > 1 ratio is fleecemane lion. While this isnt bad, to squeeze in fleecemanes and varolz would mean to drop some otherwise also resilient threats.
I think Im going to try change my build up to run Fleecemane Lions over Gladecovers because fleecemane is a FAR better late-game topdeck. We have plenty of EBT lands that most decks are running anyway. If this were the case I would probably drop orzhov charms from the main-board (golgari charm does fine in its place 95% of the time) because the reanimator effect would never have a target. Going for the late-game and higher power creatures makes me want to play dying wish even more though. So that our worst-case with it would be a late-game (preferably monstrous) fleecemane getting one dropped on it meaning 8 total life swing from it dieing (far/away devour flesh only at that point).
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I dont disagree with the power level of naya / bant hexproof decks. The funny thing is if they REALLY do pick up that much the orzhov version just destroys them. It is basically all thanks to golgari charm too.
Being able to kill enchantments with golgari charm just make these "mirror" matches horrible for the non-junk decks.
Madcap being blown up late game when you thought they didnt have blocks. -1/-1 wiping out a madcapped gladecover (even through boros charm... let alone what happens if we -1 in response to boros charm double strike).
Destroy an unflinching courage allows (more often than not) to chump-block, possibly for victory.
Detention Sphere isnt great in the mirror because other than aqueous form (maybe gift of orzhova too) we run the same enchantments. To note also is that if you do pop one of our enchantments we can recover it at instant speed now.
Access to Erebos is also killer in a mirror match where its harder for you to race when you cant gain life. (Dont worry he will probably never be a creature to be hit by selesnya charm anyway)
Thirst for Knowledge % to hit artifact
I am also in agreeance about golgari charm. Every mode is useful, and it is by far our best choice for charms in this deck. Orzhov charm seemingly under performed and selesnya charm was sub par.
My list only runs them in the side as needed, though I am begining to question that as there were times they would have come in handy. My reasoning behind this is like a combo deck, game 1 I want to present the best options for my deck to win without interacting and sideboard as needed.
3-1 the daily event last night with my build. Stomped a mono red aggro deck. Won against bw devotion because a 14/12 witchstalker with lifelink trample and flying is better than blood baron. Lost against a ur devotion deck in two close matches, but alas, stormbreath dragon, boros reckoner, and fanatic of mogis took me down before things could get rolling. Glare of heresy also played a huge role in the two post board games, elminating my unflinching courages. Finally, stomped gr monstrous deck with gift of orzhova primarily.