Hey everyone! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this so let me know if there is somewhere more appropriate.
I'm going to be doing 6 rounds of drafting with some friends of mine (there will only be 6 of us but it will still be fun) with the new Theros set, and am trying to come up with new deck ideas so I know what cards to look for.
Basically I'm asking if this is a good idea or not...
The idea I'm running with right now is a white/blue deck centered around Cipher and the new Heroic mechanic. The concept being, using Cipher abilities that can target my own creatures, casting them on Heroic creatures, then re-casting whenever I can activate a Cipher, thus activating the Heroic ability again (and again, and again). This, along with a few enchantments to also activate Heroic as well as give some nice buffs. This will definitely be a creature-oriented deck.
I'm looking at mostly low to mid CMC cards, which most of the white and blue Heroics are anyway. The ones I have on my list to include so far are:
-White:
-Fabled Hero, Rare, 2/2 for 1WW, double-strike, +1/+1 counter
-Wingsteed Rider, C, 2/2 for 1WW, flying, +1/+1 counter
-Phalanx Leader, UC, 1/1 for WW, +1/+1 on each creature
-Setessan Battle Priest, C, 1/3 for 1W, gain 2 life
-Favored Hoplite, UC, 1/2 for W, +1/+1 and prevent damage this turn
-Blue:
-Artisan of Forms, Rare, 1/1 for 1B, copy target creature and gain this heroic
-Triton Fortune Hunter, UC, 2/2 for 2B, draw a card
-Wavecrash Triton, C, 1/4 for 2B, tap target creature, doesn't untap next turn
-White/Blue:
-Battlewise Hoplite, UC, 2/2 for WB, +1/+1 counter and Scry 1
The Cipher cards I would use would be:
-Hidden Strings, tap or untap target permanent then tap or untap another target permanent
-Trait Doctoring, replace instances of one color to another color
-Voidwalk, exile target creature, return it at the end of next end step
The effects of the cipher spells aren't what I'm after, they're really just a bonus. The primary reason I am using them is so that I can keep kicking Heroic. There are also a few splash green big creatures I might want to throw in, such as Centaur Battlemaster and Staunch-Hearted Warrior to be my big late game bruisers.
What do you think about this? Good, bad, eh? What else would you put in there, and what enchantments would you suggest? Also, I pulled a foil Thassa out of a pack today, so if the functionality of that changes anything tell me what you would use. I think Thassa will be good to include because she can make a creature unblockable for a turn, making it easy to activate a cipher.
I've seen a lot of people try it, but it takes really some times and cards to settle and it obviously lead to 2-for-1's.
I think it's still a pretty fun deck to bring at FNM's or to kitchen tables thought.
About the deck, you should consider black, because abusing Agent of the fates triggers could be awesome.
I've seen a lot of people try it, but it takes really some times and cards to settle and it obviously lead to 2-for-1's.
I think it's still a pretty fun deck to bring at FNM's or to kitchen tables thought.
About the deck, you should consider black, because abusing Agent of the fates triggers could be awesome.
Thanks for the input. Yeah Agent of the Fates would be a fun one, alongside the extort-like Tormented Hero.
And oh my god, I was SO HAPPY when I found the card Aqueous Form. Unblockable for one blue and scry every time it attacks? Yes please! Triton Tactics could be useful for this as well, for hitting two Heroic triggers at once.
...
The effects of the cipher spells aren't what I'm after, they're really just a bonus. The primary reason I am using them is so that I can keep kicking Heroic. ...
Thanks for any input!
I started thinking about something like this. I came up with ... Nivmagus Elemental. If you can get cipher on him or anything that gets through, you can target a hero to get the heroic trigger and still exile the spell to get the Nivmagus bonus. Every turn.
Hey everyone! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this so let me know if there is somewhere more appropriate.
I'm going to be doing 6 rounds of drafting with some friends of mine (there will only be 6 of us but it will still be fun) with the new Theros set, and am trying to come up with new deck ideas so I know what cards to look for.
Basically I'm asking if this is a good idea or not...
The idea I'm running with right now is a white/blue deck centered around Cipher and the new Heroic mechanic. The concept being, using Cipher abilities that can target my own creatures, casting them on Heroic creatures, then re-casting whenever I can activate a Cipher, thus activating the Heroic ability again (and again, and again). This, along with a few enchantments to also activate Heroic as well as give some nice buffs. This will definitely be a creature-oriented deck.
I'm looking at mostly low to mid CMC cards, which most of the white and blue Heroics are anyway. The ones I have on my list to include so far are:
-White:
-Fabled Hero, Rare, 2/2 for 1WW, double-strike, +1/+1 counter
-Wingsteed Rider, C, 2/2 for 1WW, flying, +1/+1 counter
-Phalanx Leader, UC, 1/1 for WW, +1/+1 on each creature
-Setessan Battle Priest, C, 1/3 for 1W, gain 2 life
-Favored Hoplite, UC, 1/2 for W, +1/+1 and prevent damage this turn
-Blue:
-Artisan of Forms, Rare, 1/1 for 1B, copy target creature and gain this heroic
-Triton Fortune Hunter, UC, 2/2 for 2B, draw a card
-Wavecrash Triton, C, 1/4 for 2B, tap target creature, doesn't untap next turn
-White/Blue:
-Battlewise Hoplite, UC, 2/2 for WB, +1/+1 counter and Scry 1
The Cipher cards I would use would be:
-Hidden Strings, tap or untap target permanent then tap or untap another target permanent
-Trait Doctoring, replace instances of one color to another color
-Voidwalk, exile target creature, return it at the end of next end step
The effects of the cipher spells aren't what I'm after, they're really just a bonus. The primary reason I am using them is so that I can keep kicking Heroic. There are also a few splash green big creatures I might want to throw in, such as Centaur Battlemaster and Staunch-Hearted Warrior to be my big late game bruisers.
What do you think about this? Good, bad, eh? What else would you put in there, and what enchantments would you suggest? Also, I pulled a foil Thassa out of a pack today, so if the functionality of that changes anything tell me what you would use. I think Thassa will be good to include because she can make a creature unblockable for a turn, making it easy to activate a cipher.
Thanks for any input!
What's funny is I was disappointed in how most of the guild mechanics never made constructed or even FNM competitive levels, Cipher being the worst...perhaps you've changed that LOL.
Though as stated before I do suggest black and green in testing - Nylea, Goddess of the Hunt can give your guys trample to induce combat damage. Agent of the Fates can clear out blockers. Bow of Nylea for deathtouch will put your opponent in a tough spot, their creatures die or you draw cards.
I run Nivmagus Elemental sideboard against Control to outpace them. However, I seem to be the only one who thinks Grixis Heroes is a good idea. I play all of the Heroes whose triggers create card advantage (Agent of the Fates, Labyrinth Champion, Triton Fortune Hunter) to great effect against Aggro/Weenie.
I started thinking about something like this. I came up with ... Nivmagus Elemental. If you can get cipher on him or anything that gets through, you can target a hero to get the heroic trigger and still exile the spell to get the Nivmagus bonus. Every turn.
*
Wow I can't believe I didn't think of that, seeing as my friend runs one of those. Thanks! That's a good card to have anyway, a 1/2 for 1 is nice in its own right.
Though as stated before I do suggest black and green in testing - Nylea, Goddess of the Hunt can give your guys trample to induce combat damage. Agent of the Fates can clear out blockers. Bow of Nylea for deathtouch will put your opponent in a tough spot, their creatures die or you draw cards.
Yeah I've included Agent of the Fates in my to-draft list for this Saturday (the day of our draft). Tormented Hero is another black creature I have on there (not in as high priority though). The Green would help tremendously, my only problem is wondering if I have spread myself too thin if I include it? Like I mentioned to someone else earlier, it's a challenge for me to know if I have the appropriate mana, or a feasible spread of mana (what if I just draw islands and black mana creatures?).
So far this is my "decklist" of sorts. This is no way represents the final, but is just the collection of potential cards I am considering throwing in this deck. Can anyone help me decide which ones work here, and which aren't up to snuff? Also, which ones should I put in in quantities of 1, 2, 3, and 4? How much mana of each type will I need, and should I include guildgates or are they too slow for a deck like this (because they come into play tapped)?
?x Island
?x Plains
?x Swamp
?x Forest
?x Fabled Hero
?x Wingsteed Rider
?x Phalanx Leader
?x Setessan Battle Priest
?x Favored Hoplite
?x Triton Fortune Hunter
?x Wavecrash Triton
?x Battlewise Hoplite
?x Centaur Battlemaster
?x Staunch-Hearted Warrior
?x Tormented Hero
?x Agent of the Fates
?x Nivmagus Elemental
?x Thassa, God of the Sea
?x Nylea, God of the Hunt
?x Gods Willing
?x Ordeal of Heliod
?x Spear of Heliod
?x Aqueous Form
?x Triton Tactics
?x Boon of Erebos
?x Scourgemark
?x Brave the Elements
?x Ethereal Armor
?x Shielded Passage
?x Swift Justice
?x Bioshift
?x Mizzium Skin
?x Hidden Strings
?x Trait Doctoring
?x Prowler's Helm
?x Strionic Resonator
Sorry, I know that's a huge, crude, and haphazard list, which is why I'm asking you guys! The veterans! Note that Hidden Strings and Trait Doctoring are only for their Cipher effect to trigger Heroic, and Mizzium Skin is only there to overload, thus triggering Heroic on all my creatures on the field.
Thanks again for any help. Also, should I move this to the standard deck creation form?
I play a Nivmagus Elemental + Hidden Strings combo deck and it's been some of the most fun MTG I've played since when I was a kid around Mirage block. It's fun to see people try to understand your combo and as soon as it dawns on them they realize they're dead on turn 3.
Nivmagus Elemental > Hidden Strings a few times > Double-strike is usually a death sentence against most players, especially if you hold Mizzium Skin in hand. Yes you can two for one yourself but if you try to play around removal smartly you can do some incredible things. For example, today I was playing a friend and on T3 I attacked with a 3/4 Nivmagus Elemental, tapped two mana in my combat phase, untapped them, tapped them again and cast Steam Augery ... during my combat phase. All this allowed me to keep an Island online to protect my creature which is pretty much essential in standard today.
I have yet to try Heroic but I will be building a version of this deck soon with Anax and Cymede. Trample seems really good with cipher effects.
BTW I should add that with the exception of Hidden Strings and Hands of Binding, the other cipher cards are mostly bad. Whispering Madness is actually pretty good with Notion Thief in play too. If anyone else has found successful use of other cipher spells please let me know!
I have a build based around hidden strings, agent of fates, and a bunch of counter/removal. Bringing it to my fnm this week. Against arrgo and midrange it should be ok.....but against control decks it falls a little flat. Hopefully I can trade for a few goodies to help my deck out. I'll update with decklist and results sat.
its a heroic trigger and ive found most of the time its 2 counters and draw 2 in the same turn. unless they remove it or the creature before you get to swing, you are drawing the two.
also correct me if im wrong but you dont get to sac the enchant until the creature swings with 3+ counters correct? i had someone try to play and sac instantly on a dude with counters without attacking.
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I'm going to be doing 6 rounds of drafting with some friends of mine (there will only be 6 of us but it will still be fun) with the new Theros set, and am trying to come up with new deck ideas so I know what cards to look for.
Basically I'm asking if this is a good idea or not...
The idea I'm running with right now is a white/blue deck centered around Cipher and the new Heroic mechanic. The concept being, using Cipher abilities that can target my own creatures, casting them on Heroic creatures, then re-casting whenever I can activate a Cipher, thus activating the Heroic ability again (and again, and again). This, along with a few enchantments to also activate Heroic as well as give some nice buffs. This will definitely be a creature-oriented deck.
I'm looking at mostly low to mid CMC cards, which most of the white and blue Heroics are anyway. The ones I have on my list to include so far are:
The Cipher cards I would use would be:
The effects of the cipher spells aren't what I'm after, they're really just a bonus. The primary reason I am using them is so that I can keep kicking Heroic. There are also a few splash green big creatures I might want to throw in, such as Centaur Battlemaster and Staunch-Hearted Warrior to be my big late game bruisers.
What do you think about this? Good, bad, eh? What else would you put in there, and what enchantments would you suggest? Also, I pulled a foil Thassa out of a pack today, so if the functionality of that changes anything tell me what you would use. I think Thassa will be good to include because she can make a creature unblockable for a turn, making it easy to activate a cipher.
Thanks for any input!
I think it's still a pretty fun deck to bring at FNM's or to kitchen tables thought.
About the deck, you should consider black, because abusing Agent of the fates triggers could be awesome.
Thanks for the input. Yeah Agent of the Fates would be a fun one, alongside the extort-like Tormented Hero.
And oh my god, I was SO HAPPY when I found the card Aqueous Form. Unblockable for one blue and scry every time it attacks? Yes please! Triton Tactics could be useful for this as well, for hitting two Heroic triggers at once.
I started thinking about something like this. I came up with ... Nivmagus Elemental. If you can get cipher on him or anything that gets through, you can target a hero to get the heroic trigger and still exile the spell to get the Nivmagus bonus. Every turn.
*
*
What's funny is I was disappointed in how most of the guild mechanics never made constructed or even FNM competitive levels, Cipher being the worst...perhaps you've changed that LOL.
Though as stated before I do suggest black and green in testing - Nylea, Goddess of the Hunt can give your guys trample to induce combat damage. Agent of the Fates can clear out blockers. Bow of Nylea for deathtouch will put your opponent in a tough spot, their creatures die or you draw cards.
Wow I can't believe I didn't think of that, seeing as my friend runs one of those. Thanks! That's a good card to have anyway, a 1/2 for 1 is nice in its own right.
Ooo I like those, especially because they are grey. I'm still relatively new to Magic so balancing mana and the such is still a challenge for me.
Yeah I've included Agent of the Fates in my to-draft list for this Saturday (the day of our draft). Tormented Hero is another black creature I have on there (not in as high priority though). The Green would help tremendously, my only problem is wondering if I have spread myself too thin if I include it? Like I mentioned to someone else earlier, it's a challenge for me to know if I have the appropriate mana, or a feasible spread of mana (what if I just draw islands and black mana creatures?).
So far this is my "decklist" of sorts. This is no way represents the final, but is just the collection of potential cards I am considering throwing in this deck. Can anyone help me decide which ones work here, and which aren't up to snuff? Also, which ones should I put in in quantities of 1, 2, 3, and 4? How much mana of each type will I need, and should I include guildgates or are they too slow for a deck like this (because they come into play tapped)?
?x Island
?x Plains
?x Swamp
?x Forest
?x Fabled Hero
?x Wingsteed Rider
?x Phalanx Leader
?x Setessan Battle Priest
?x Favored Hoplite
?x Triton Fortune Hunter
?x Wavecrash Triton
?x Battlewise Hoplite
?x Centaur Battlemaster
?x Staunch-Hearted Warrior
?x Tormented Hero
?x Agent of the Fates
?x Nivmagus Elemental
?x Thassa, God of the Sea
?x Nylea, God of the Hunt
?x Gods Willing
?x Ordeal of Heliod
?x Spear of Heliod
?x Aqueous Form
?x Triton Tactics
?x Boon of Erebos
?x Scourgemark
?x Brave the Elements
?x Ethereal Armor
?x Shielded Passage
?x Swift Justice
?x Bioshift
?x Mizzium Skin
?x Hidden Strings
?x Trait Doctoring
?x Prowler's Helm
?x Strionic Resonator
Sorry, I know that's a huge, crude, and haphazard list, which is why I'm asking you guys! The veterans! Note that Hidden Strings and Trait Doctoring are only for their Cipher effect to trigger Heroic, and Mizzium Skin is only there to overload, thus triggering Heroic on all my creatures on the field.
Thanks again for any help. Also, should I move this to the standard deck creation form?
Nivmagus Elemental > Hidden Strings a few times > Double-strike is usually a death sentence against most players, especially if you hold Mizzium Skin in hand. Yes you can two for one yourself but if you try to play around removal smartly you can do some incredible things. For example, today I was playing a friend and on T3 I attacked with a 3/4 Nivmagus Elemental, tapped two mana in my combat phase, untapped them, tapped them again and cast Steam Augery ... during my combat phase. All this allowed me to keep an Island online to protect my creature which is pretty much essential in standard today.
I have yet to try Heroic but I will be building a version of this deck soon with Anax and Cymede. Trample seems really good with cipher effects.
Just so ya know, this doesn't work. The overloaded spell doesn't target, so doesn't trigger heroic.
*
its a heroic trigger and ive found most of the time its 2 counters and draw 2 in the same turn. unless they remove it or the creature before you get to swing, you are drawing the two.
also correct me if im wrong but you dont get to sac the enchant until the creature swings with 3+ counters correct? i had someone try to play and sac instantly on a dude with counters without attacking.