Hey, thanks for reading. After taking time to read over people's thoughts, we realized that we just need a thread for all things Kalonian Hydra.
This thread is intended, through trial and error, to determine the best deck for Kalonian Hydra and if that incarnation we end up with can be more than just FNM competitive. My feeling is that we will get 2-3 pretty competitive decks out of this.
My opinion is that Jund will be best, because of the removal at it's disposal (Dreadbore, Putrefy, Abrupt Decay and Tragic Slip). However, BUG looks very strong too with the control suite it has (the aforementioned decay, putrefy and slip, but with counterspells and permission). Naya looks to have a good showing as well, with Boros Charm and Boros Reckoner, and RUG is something I'd personally like to explore.
Primary Card Choices
-Kalonian Hydra: This is why we're here...if she isnt in your list GTFO! Personally I like her (yes, SHE is beautiful) interaction with everthing... but like her with Gyre Sage, quickly powering sage to ramp into something, ie kessig wolf run.
-Corpsejack Menace: The ability to double counters that are being doubled is great, and it fits the curve. Removal magnet, because he makes everything better, from unleashed creatures like Rakdos Cackler, anything Master Biomancer at all, Gyre Sage's evolve if you decide to use her. Winmor for sure, yes. I'm ok with that though, because of his 4/4 schmexy body.
-Master Biomancer: Same spot on the curve as CJM, but worth a split with him for sure. Also makes every creature you play better, and can get out of hand quickly. Ever win with an 11/11 Arbor Elf?
-Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch: This little hotty in magic Christmas land is who you want to land the turn before Hydra. Gives all your dudes haste, IF they etb with a counter. Unleash likes her, as does undying and evolve.
-Savageborn Hydra: Kalonia's BFF, they do everything together, from doubling counters to...doubling striking (forced, sorry *shrugs*)
thats a nice thought, except im unsure if i want to use primal speaker to draw cards equal to highest power among creatures I control, or garruk 4.0. there are good reasons for both of them, but i feel like G4.0 may have the edge.
i agree though, that there needs to be a bomb - or a way to draw a ton of cards and drop your hand on the table in cases of extreme mana
I would use Garruk instead of the primal speaker. You have to splash blue for it, and with garruk you can keep it mono colored.
But if you splashed blue you could give aetherling shenanigans a try ... lol
Also have you given thought to the verdant haven+arbor elf combo for fast ramping as well? I use it in my green/white tempo deck and it really helps me push towards the higher stuff like Armada Wurm and Angel of Serenity Just food for thought
Basing your deck around doubling stuff with the hydra is just a little bit winmore, since if you untap with the hydra you should be winning anyway (swinging with an 8/8 trample on turn 6?) With Corpsejack Menace I can kind of understand the counter theme, but it's not really necessary otherwise..
Ok, im changing it up. You all are right, i was trying to force something a little. i have 3 overgrown tombs and 4 woodland cemeterys, I'll make the switch. Adjusted OP with my new decklist. Remember, I kinda always design winmor, it's fun to me, and I like to have quirky synergies in my decks, so keep that in mind when you/if you offer me more advice. I liked a lot of what was said, and im going CJM with this.
Turn 6 is slow, you should be swinging turn 5 with ramp. Turn 3 menace, turn 4 hydra, turn 5 should be almost lethal depending on hand. I've swing as early as turn 4 without menace.
I know it's not your colors but if you want good shenanigans with hydra, go red green aggro. lightning mauler plus haste hydra equals good times.
was just talking about making things jund, mauler is a good two drop for sure. is mauler or manaweft fixing mana for exava on turn 3 better you think? t4 haste hydra is nice, but xmas land.
Well try to work on it tonight and include sections for each of the possible hydra lists. I still think I want to try and run BG WITH slight blue splash for master biomancer just to give things counters. Plus being a 2/4 he can help block early game.
I like your addition of Heartless Summoning. Definitely works with Hydras. I would try to add in a couple Primordial Hydra's as well. Combine the doubling at your upkeep with a Corpsejack or 2, then throw a kalonian in the mix. Things get out of hand quick if your opponents don't have a lot of board control.
The only question I have is, does this deck in any of its forms have what it takes to be competitive at a higher level or is this strictly an FNM lgs kinda deck?
Posterchild: i think in jund colors it can be competitive, with removal like dreadbore, etc (see page 1 at the bottom), with a blend of falkenrath aristocrat and exava. The current OP is an fnm deck for sure. But we can stream line it
No heartless in my deck so always a live card for me plus it's a beat stick if you can bring in after a biomancer. 4/3 trample regenerate for 2? Sure I'll take a couple.
@mike: Yeah, only two for that reason, but yeah, when i get home ima change up the op to include all lists, and just be a hydra think tank. Then maybe we can get down and see whats best. Simic/bant/rug looks promising because of biomancer shenanigans (biomancer is one of my favs alltime), forced adaptation a strangleroot geist with mancer in play and you get a 5/5 and a 5/4 for :symu:. Menace of course makes it sillier. The juanita in me (female counterpart to johnnie) likes this a LOT. Ive had to TRY to train my thinking to be more competitve, because most decks i post here have some strange part to them and 999 people view them but dont comment. So now i try to dangle just enough for spike to get interested lol
Believe you mean rapid hybridization. We don't want forced adaptation in this deck or any competitive deck lol. I'm currently trying to squeeze 2 rapids into my deck or board but don't want to dilute creature count.
Believe you mean rapid hybridization. We don't want forced adaptation in this deck or any competitive deck lol. I'm currently trying to squeeze 2 rapids into my deck or board but don't want to dilute creature count.
lol.... yeah, exactly what i meant. poop. just got home, will start work on the OP.
@slow: oh yeah, I was going to comment on that deck but i was at work, sorry ill throw it in the op as a decklist for review along with mine and posterchild's
ok, OP updated with primary card choices (only 5 so far) pics, decklists, and bad humor. What do you think about madcap skills being in here? early game it can get in great damage (a friend of mine gravecrawlers me with MCS all the time... ). Ring of Kalonia?
And Friends.
Hey, thanks for reading. After taking time to read over people's thoughts, we realized that we just need a thread for all things Kalonian Hydra.
This thread is intended, through trial and error, to determine the best deck for Kalonian Hydra and if that incarnation we end up with can be more than just FNM competitive. My feeling is that we will get 2-3 pretty competitive decks out of this.
My opinion is that Jund will be best, because of the removal at it's disposal (Dreadbore, Putrefy, Abrupt Decay and Tragic Slip). However, BUG looks very strong too with the control suite it has (the aforementioned decay, putrefy and slip, but with counterspells and permission). Naya looks to have a good showing as well, with Boros Charm and Boros Reckoner, and RUG is something I'd personally like to explore.
Decklists:
Jund list:
4x Kalonian Hydra
3x Primordial Hydra
3x Vastwood hydra
2x Savageborn Hydra
4x Corpsejack Menace
2x Rubblebelt Raiders
2x Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
2x Elvish Mystic
Sorcery/Instant/Enchantments:
4x Shock
3x Lay of the Land
2x Armed/Dangerous
2x Putrefy
2x Rancor
1x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Land
3x Swamp
3x Mountain
4x Forrest
2x Gruul Guildgate
2x Rakdos Guildgate
2x Golgari Guildgate
3x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Blood Crypt
2x Deathrite Shaman
3x Burning-Tree Shaman
2x Primeval Bounty
2x Mindsparker
1x Into the Wilds
1x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1x Zhur-Taa Druid
1x Rubblebelt Raiders
1x Lay of the Land
BUG List:
4 Cloudfin Raptor
3 Gyre Sage
4 Invisible Stalker
4 Elusive Krasis
4 Master Biomancer
4 Corpsejack Menace
4 Kalonian Hydra
3 Putrefy
3 Doom Blade
2 Tragic Slip
3 Increasing Savagery
Lands:
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
4 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Island
3 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Kalonian Tusker
3 Lotleth Troll
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Champion of Lambholt
3 Predator Ooze
3 Corpsejack Menace
3 Master Biomancer
3 Kalonian Hydra
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
4 Rancor
2 Savage Summoning
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands:22
4 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Fog
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Witchstalker
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Golgari Heartless Summoning List:
4 Kalonian Hydra
4 Necropolis Regent
4 Corpsejack Menace
4 Gyre Sage
2 Duty-Bound Dead
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Heartless Summoning
3 Putrefy
3 Tragic Slip
2 Vile Rebirth
2 Rancor
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
8 Forest
7 Swamp
Gruul Lists:
Koolmage's ILOVERAMP.DEK
4 Gyre Sage
4 Zur-Ta Druid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Manaweft Sliver
2 Ogre Battledriver
2 Primordial Hydra
4 Savageborn Hydra
4 Kalonian Hydra
2 Ranger's path
2 Rancor
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rootbound Crag
6 Mountain
6 Forest
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Pithing Needle
2 Increasing Savagery
2 Rancor
2 Madcap Skills
2 Alpha Authority
Punda's Gruul
4x Arbor Elf
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Kalonian Hydra
4x Lightning Mauler
4x Ogre Battledriver
4x Predator Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
2x Wolfir Silverheart
2x Cavern of Souls
6x Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
5x Mountain
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Stomping Ground
3x Domri Rade
1x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Naya List:
coming
RUG List:
coming
more...
Slogan: "WinMor or GO HOME!"
Primary Card Choices
-Kalonian Hydra: This is why we're here...if she isnt in your list GTFO! Personally I like her (yes, SHE is beautiful) interaction with everthing... but like her with Gyre Sage, quickly powering sage to ramp into something, ie kessig wolf run.
-Corpsejack Menace: The ability to double counters that are being doubled is great, and it fits the curve. Removal magnet, because he makes everything better, from unleashed creatures like Rakdos Cackler, anything Master Biomancer at all, Gyre Sage's evolve if you decide to use her. Winmor for sure, yes. I'm ok with that though, because of his 4/4 schmexy body.
-Master Biomancer: Same spot on the curve as CJM, but worth a split with him for sure. Also makes every creature you play better, and can get out of hand quickly. Ever win with an 11/11 Arbor Elf?
-Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch: This little hotty in magic Christmas land is who you want to land the turn before Hydra. Gives all your dudes haste, IF they etb with a counter. Unleash likes her, as does undying and evolve.
-Savageborn Hydra: Kalonia's BFF, they do everything together, from doubling counters to...doubling striking (forced, sorry *shrugs*)
more card choices coming
i agree though, that there needs to be a bomb - or a way to draw a ton of cards and drop your hand on the table in cases of extreme mana
But if you splashed blue you could give aetherling shenanigans a try ... lol
Also have you given thought to the verdant haven+arbor elf combo for fast ramping as well? I use it in my green/white tempo deck and it really helps me push towards the higher stuff like Armada Wurm and Angel of Serenity Just food for thought
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
But since you want this to be mono green, I would recommend something like that...
-3 Alpha Authority
-2 Increasing Savagery
-3 Burst of Strength
-3 Young Wolf
-1 Ulvenwald Tracker
+2 Champion of Lambholt
+3 Rumblebelt Raiders
+2 Experiment One
+2 Rancor
+3 Scavenging Ooze
Burst of strength is subpar. If consider either playing the elf deck that's running around, or consider branching into a second color.
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
Deck: M14 counters
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:30
3 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Kalonian Tusker
3 Lotleth Troll
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Champion of Lambholt
3 Predator Ooze
3 Corpsejack Menace
3 Master Biomancer
3 Kalonian Hydra
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
Spells:8
4 Rancor
2 Savage Summoning
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands:22
4 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
Sideboard:15
2 Fog
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Witchstalker
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Well lets start one? Jund seems the most competitve because of removal like dreadbore, abrupt decay, putrefy and tragic slip. I think manaweft sliver ramps out exava, blood witch curving into hydra attacking on turn4. And I wanna test out grimoire of the dead as a two of for late game. Put hydra and exava into play with falkenrath aristocrat and alpha strike. Just a thought.
Bant, Junk and Naya hydra all have their arguments too
You start the primer and ill move over there? Admins merge threads or something?
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was just talking about making things jund, mauler is a good two drop for sure. is mauler or manaweft fixing mana for exava on turn 3 better you think? t4 haste hydra is nice, but xmas land.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/598381-kiki-chord-kiki-company
Bring to Niv
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/814060-bring-to-niv-the-golden-deck
Legacy - Lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands
Ill change the OP to reflect curret convo
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=526803
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/598381-kiki-chord-kiki-company
Bring to Niv
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/814060-bring-to-niv-the-golden-deck
Legacy - Lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands
lol.... yeah, exactly what i meant. poop. just got home, will start work on the OP.
@slow: oh yeah, I was going to comment on that deck but i was at work, sorry ill throw it in the op as a decklist for review along with mine and posterchild's
ok, OP updated with primary card choices (only 5 so far) pics, decklists, and bad humor. What do you think about madcap skills being in here? early game it can get in great damage (a friend of mine gravecrawlers me with MCS all the time... ). Ring of Kalonia?