We are all in the WRR camp but which one is the best suited for the current meta? All of our variations have great upsides to various decks but with the current meta being a very Moorland Haunt Aggro (Delver/UW Humans), Esper/Grixis Control, WRR dominated meta we need to ask ourselves which variation is superior.
We have:
WRR green - Dundrove Elders
WRR red - With massive amounts of burns and Inferno Titans
WRR white - Naya splash and usually very heavy G and W Planeswalkers and access to Elesh Norn and DoJ
WRR black - Jund splash and has access to Grave Titans and a lot of various removal spells
I was leaning towards WRR red but after reading Josh Silverstri's recent article on Channel Fireball I may be leaning towards WRR green. Naya seems powerful and is what I currently play but doesn't seem as great against the current influx of Moorland Haunt Aggro. I have no say in Jund since I have never tested it.
I voted for the Red version. I feel like you need a full set of Galvanic Blast in this meta and 2-3 Inferno Titans in the 75. Other than that though, Green is where to be.
I really hope the 4cmc WW fits in this deck. I'm looking to use 3 GSZ, 1 BoP, 1 Acidic Slime, 4 Primeval Titan and 1 WW Lord. GSZ is such a great card, we need to utilize it more and that means having better green threats. Thrun is just a sideboard card IMO.
RG No contest. It has answers that no other build has. Galvanic Blast, Slagstorm, Inferno Titan. Any questions.
With that being said, the white version is pretty versitile. DoJ and Oblivion Ring are pretty good answers to some of the things that the red version has trouble with, without folding to aggro like the green version does.
The thing about the White version of WRR is that it has a hard time dealing with Illusions and any UW aggro with mana leak. t4 DoJ is usually mana leaked or dissipated and there goes your sweeper. O-ring is fairly slow against them and it's hard to make a comeback with the cards that are usually MB. By the time you land a Garruk/Gideon/Elspeth they have already brought you down to drastically low life because of the countered DoJ. (Thats considering you drew into it since we have no draw power Garruk aside)
Still leaning towards red or green WRR sadly. I love the PWer version. Which admittedly is much better against control and mirror, but not against the overwhelming aggro meta.
The thing about the White version of WRR is that it has a hard time dealing with Illusions and any UW aggro with mana leak. t4 DoJ is usually mana leaked or dissipated and there goes your sweeper. O-ring is fairly slow against them and it's hard to make a comeback with the cards that are usually MB. By the time you land a Garruk/Gideon/Elspeth they have already brought you down to drastically low life because of the countered DoJ. (Thats considering you drew into it since we have no draw power Garruk aside)
Still leaning towards red or green WRR sadly. I love the PWer version. Which admittedly is much better against control and mirror, but not against the overwhelming aggro meta.
G/W WRR can usually hold them off long enough to land an Elesh Norn. I prefer G/W WRR Pod to ensure you can pull the Elesh Norn out, as using Pod ensures that she is uncounterable and she kills about everything they have, even more so that most UW Tempo decks that I see don't run Phantasmal Image. They can Vapor Snag her, but usually it isn't much of an issue to get 7 mana and just getting her out usually wipes the board. Andrew Knight's version just looks amazing and so much fun to me.
The thing about the White version of WRR is that it has a hard time dealing with Illusions and any UW aggro with mana leak. t4 DoJ is usually mana leaked or dissipated and there goes your sweeper. O-ring is fairly slow against them and it's hard to make a comeback with the cards that are usually MB. By the time you land a Garruk/Gideon/Elspeth they have already brought you down to drastically low life because of the countered DoJ. (Thats considering you drew into it since we have no draw power Garruk aside)
Still leaning towards red or green WRR sadly. I love the PWer version. Which admittedly is much better against control and mirror, but not against the overwhelming aggro meta.
Day of Judgement comes down on turn 3 if it does not you kept a bad hand. Against Illusions its right after Geist hits the field. Elesh/Gideon/O-Ring/WurmCoil/DoJ are all very good against Illusions. G/R WR looks worse with the amount of W/U Delver decks running Sword of War and Peace.
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84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Day of Judgement comes down on turn 3 if it does not you kept a bad hand. Against Illusions its right after Geist hits the field. Elesh/Gideon/O-Ring/WurmCoil/DoJ are all very good against Illusions. G/R WR looks worse with the amount of W/U Delver decks running Sword of War and Peace.
Am I missing something?
"G/R WR looks worse with the amount of W/U Delver decks running Sword of War and Peace"
War and Peace offers protection from Both Red and White so how is Red at a disadvantage compared to White?
Anyway, the swords are Artifacts. Naturalize / Ancient Grudge.
I've had pretty good luck running white with pod. 4 birds, 4 solemn, 4 primeval, 1 elesh norn, 1 blade splicer, 2 acidic slime, etc ... its the same list that Reid Duke ran at the invitational. The only thing that I am looking to change is the amount of answers available to weenies (humans, UR delver) - I think it needs one or two more.
The reason he says SoWaP is good against red is because prot red protects them from their targeted kill spells like Geistflame, Gutshot or Arc Trail AND their sweeper Slagstorm. SoWaP protects them vs O-ring but not from DoJ. I think that's what he meant at least.
I've been thinking that WRR white could use more t1 ramp but with DoJ I'm not 100% sure if it's worth it. I don't like DoJ'ing my ramp in t3/t4 ~_~ It always feels a little slower than the decks that run the Birds.
1. It gets vapor Snagged to hell and you get no value out of replaying it and having it Snagged again.
2. And more importantly...Having Wurmcoil copied with Image just sucks.
I've been playing GR and I don't see that changing anytime soon, especially with it just taking 3rd at the last SCG Open. So many of the agro matches I blowout and after board I have good game against control.
GW seems like a fundamentally good deck, but I can't get behind it when it dies so hard to an Illusions of draw of ~Delver, Leak, Dude, Land, Land, X, X~
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Yeah, G/R is the best version for walking into an unknown meta, and possibly just the best in general. Plenty of reach, removal, speed, and sheer power. Landing a t4 Inferno Titan against Humans, Illusions, or Tokens can just be backbreaking, and hard to race. I may consider a light W splash for Ray of Revelation, but other than that I say G/R all day long.
The thing about the White version of WRR is that it has a hard time dealing with Illusions and any UW aggro with mana leak. t4 DoJ is usually mana leaked or dissipated and there goes your sweeper. O-ring is fairly slow against them and it's hard to make a comeback with the cards that are usually MB. By the time you land a Garruk/Gideon/Elspeth they have already brought you down to drastically low life because of the countered DoJ. (Thats considering you drew into it since we have no draw power Garruk aside)
Still leaning towards red or green WRR sadly. I love the PWer version. Which admittedly is much better against control and mirror, but not against the overwhelming aggro meta.
That is not at all how the deck works. Look at Reid Duke's list from the invitational. DoJ is the most powerful sweeper, Elesh Norn is about the strongest creature in the current meta, and Pod adds consistency while dodging counterspells. The deck can often confuse ill-informed opponents as well as Duke's Pod build never really caught on in a big way and some people assume you're playing a dedicated Pod deck.
"G/R WR looks worse with the amount of W/U Delver decks running Sword of War and Peace"
War and Peace offers protection from Both Red and White so how is Red at a disadvantage compared to White?
Anyway, the swords are Artifacts. Naturalize / Ancient Grudge.
You can O-Ring the sword/DoJ still, Gideons +2 still works, Elesh global still works. That is why.
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84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
You can ancient grudge the sword and flash it back to break another. I don't see how o-ring helps more in any way.
Ancient Grudge is a narrow card. What if they never draw 1 of the 2 swords in their deck then you have a dead card or even two? O-Ring can target anything and is never a dead card.
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84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Art by HAKAI STUDIOS!
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We have:
WRR green - Dundrove Elders
WRR red - With massive amounts of burns and Inferno Titans
WRR white - Naya splash and usually very heavy G and W Planeswalkers and access to Elesh Norn and DoJ
WRR black - Jund splash and has access to Grave Titans and a lot of various removal spells
I was leaning towards WRR red but after reading Josh Silverstri's recent article on Channel Fireball I may be leaning towards WRR green. Naya seems powerful and is what I currently play but doesn't seem as great against the current influx of Moorland Haunt Aggro. I have no say in Jund since I have never tested it.
I really hope the 4cmc WW fits in this deck. I'm looking to use 3 GSZ, 1 BoP, 1 Acidic Slime, 4 Primeval Titan and 1 WW Lord. GSZ is such a great card, we need to utilize it more and that means having better green threats. Thrun is just a sideboard card IMO.
Because the obvious synergy between Dungrove Elder and Primeval Titan.
Beast Within and Acidic Slime are good answers for lots of things.
Unfortunately the deck seems to roll over to tempered steel mirran crusader and Geist of Saint Traft.
Exactly...WRR needs Galvanic Blast. Mirran Crusader says so.
Oh and for my above post, Slagstorm as well, slipped my mind.
With that being said, the white version is pretty versitile. DoJ and Oblivion Ring are pretty good answers to some of the things that the red version has trouble with, without folding to aggro like the green version does.
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Still leaning towards red or green WRR sadly. I love the PWer version. Which admittedly is much better against control and mirror, but not against the overwhelming aggro meta.
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G/W WRR can usually hold them off long enough to land an Elesh Norn. I prefer G/W WRR Pod to ensure you can pull the Elesh Norn out, as using Pod ensures that she is uncounterable and she kills about everything they have, even more so that most UW Tempo decks that I see don't run Phantasmal Image. They can Vapor Snag her, but usually it isn't much of an issue to get 7 mana and just getting her out usually wipes the board. Andrew Knight's version just looks amazing and so much fun to me.
Day of Judgement comes down on turn 3 if it does not you kept a bad hand. Against Illusions its right after Geist hits the field. Elesh/Gideon/O-Ring/WurmCoil/DoJ are all very good against Illusions. G/R WR looks worse with the amount of W/U Delver decks running Sword of War and Peace.
84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Art by HAKAI STUDIOS!
Am I missing something?
"G/R WR looks worse with the amount of W/U Delver decks running Sword of War and Peace"
War and Peace offers protection from Both Red and White so how is Red at a disadvantage compared to White?
Anyway, the swords are Artifacts. Naturalize / Ancient Grudge.
I've been thinking that WRR white could use more t1 ramp but with DoJ I'm not 100% sure if it's worth it. I don't like DoJ'ing my ramp in t3/t4 ~_~ It always feels a little slower than the decks that run the Birds.
1. It gets vapor Snagged to hell and you get no value out of replaying it and having it Snagged again.
2. And more importantly...Having Wurmcoil copied with Image just sucks.
I've been playing GR and I don't see that changing anytime soon, especially with it just taking 3rd at the last SCG Open. So many of the agro matches I blowout and after board I have good game against control.
GW seems like a fundamentally good deck, but I can't get behind it when it dies so hard to an Illusions of draw of ~Delver, Leak, Dude, Land, Land, X, X~
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Standard:
:symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)
Legacy:
:symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
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Commander:
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That is not at all how the deck works. Look at Reid Duke's list from the invitational. DoJ is the most powerful sweeper, Elesh Norn is about the strongest creature in the current meta, and Pod adds consistency while dodging counterspells. The deck can often confuse ill-informed opponents as well as Duke's Pod build never really caught on in a big way and some people assume you're playing a dedicated Pod deck.
You can O-Ring the sword/DoJ still, Gideons +2 still works, Elesh global still works. That is why.
84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Art by HAKAI STUDIOS!
You can ancient grudge the sword and flash it back to break another. I don't see how o-ring helps more in any way.
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Ancient Grudge is a narrow card. What if they never draw 1 of the 2 swords in their deck then you have a dead card or even two? O-Ring can target anything and is never a dead card.
84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Art by HAKAI STUDIOS!