I was about to come in being like 'omg what are you on about gah your bad!' but no no you bring up truely valid points, i wouldnt say its not viable, it can still EoT kill a stoneforge so theres no cheeky turn 3 batterskulls or take down a dude before it equips up and is useful for wiping out those pesky lotus cobras random ramp decks play (that RUG titan thing)
Main deck Nature's Claim seems strange. I totally see and understand your points, it just feels dirty though lol.
I'm going to try and do some innovation over the next several days as I'm going to Louisville this coming weekend, and I'm hoping to play Valakut into a respectable finish.
If anyone has some techy lists, feel free to post them, it would be greatly appreciated.
Main deck Nature's Claim seems strange. I totally see and understand your points, it just feels dirty though lol.
I'm going to try and do some innovation over the next several days as I'm going to Louisville this coming weekend, and I'm hoping to play Valakut into a respectable finish.
If anyone has some techy lists, feel free to post them, it would be greatly appreciated.
I know, I feel dirty too. I have been a huge advocate for 4 Bolts main for months now.
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Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
It's hard to say at this point. If the meta shifts enough towards these two cards (which very likely could happen) bolt really does become mediocre, as weird as MD nature's claim is.
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Props to Theismisacrime for the sig! Click for Trade list!
Major EDH player! Current decks:UUBraids, Waifu | UGZegana | RGWEnchantress Uril, the Miststalker | WBTriad of Fates (new!) | RBGXira Arien Re-dredge-imator (unretired!)
Eladamri | Anowon | Sydri | Melek | Augustin IV | Thelon | Sliver Overlord | Ramirez DePietro
What about Mold Shambler instead of Nature's Claim? I realize the speed of the claim might make it superior, but I'm trying to be innovative without restricting the usefulness of any given card in the deck. I would say Acidic Slime, but shambler is bigger and can hit Jace, the Headache Sculptor.
I think it's a bit premature to abandon a great burn spell for artifact enchantment hate just yet. What are you going to do against a turn 2 Lotus Cobra, or a Fauna Shaman? Granted, you don't see those cards as much as things in Cawblade, where artifact removal is randomly better, but I don't think it's time to freak out about Splinter Twin quite yet.
When it consistently beats Cawblade, then we can start maining 4 Nature's Claim.
Unless your meta is really crawling with man-equips and swords and ExarchTwin, I wouldn't stray from Bolt. Hits too many relevant creatures that see so much play.
Unless your meta is really crawling with man-equips and swords and ExarchTwin, I wouldn't stray from Bolt. Hits too many relevant creatures that see so much play.
This is a competitive forum, I'm referring to competitive meta such as Opens and GPs, which they will be.
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Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Yeah, that's a very good point. We won't kill batterskulls nor exarch twins with bolts, but that means we will have a problem against RUG and other small utility creatures. I just feel naked not running bolt anywhere in the deck.
I would actually agree with this, but I'm sure the Splinter Twin deck will be hated out of the metagame in like 6 weeks, and we can go back to Bolts. Maybe not 4 Nature's Claim MB, but I can definitely see at least 2.
I really like Combust as a 4-of out of the side. It hits everything in Caw except a Batterskull'd Mystic, and it's an out to Colonnade.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Twin actualy IS such a threat. The deck is horrible. Don t forget there are LOTS of card along the combo, and that the deck could kill you almost at the second your tapped out.
Claim main deck don t even gives you the edge: it just leaves you a small chance...
Destroying the equipment they fetch is better than killing the SFM itself is what they're getting at.
That's not always the case, though. One of the only ways for Valakut to beat Caw is to force them to use their mana inefficiently. Flashing in a Batterskull in turn 3 is potentially game-breaking, but hardcasting a Batterskull on turn 5/6 really isn't that crazy.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
That's not always the case, though. One of the only ways for Valakut to beat Caw is to force them to use their mana inefficiently. Flashing in a Batterskull in turn 3 is potentially game-breaking, but hardcasting a Batterskull on turn 5/6 really isn't that crazy.
This argument is flawed, not by the initial argument, but by the examples given thereafter.
First, if they flash in the batterskull, and you destroy it via Nature's Claim, you've won on the mana spent battle, and their 1/2 creature is too weak to be a legitimate threat.
Next, them hardcasting a Batterskull has nothing to do with the example you gave, nor is it a legitimate point even if it were, because no Caw-Blade player is tapping out when we're at Titan mana, ever.
Back to the first thing I said. Yes, it can be about making them spend their mana inefficiently, but Nature's Claim can make them do that by spending 2 mana during an endstep to flash in the equipment, then by spending the equip mana (assuming it's a sword) giving us a half time walk of sorts.
I personally don't see any good caw player ever getting Batterskull against Valakut because a 5-turn clock isn't scary in the least. If we resolve titan, we're probably going to win regardless of an equipment. Feast and Famine is the real threat as it attacks our hand while simultaneously allowing them to cast threats and keep counter mana up 100% of the time.
What about beast within. It does everything nature's claim does while killing 'walkers, opposing titans, or heck even a land sometimes to manascrew someone. The only problem with it is it is more easily countered being a 3 drop against soft counters like mana leak and spell pierce while nature's claim is hard to spell pierce/mana leak later on. But fortunately spell pierce and mana leak can be played around.
On lightning bolt. It's good for killing RUG creatures and SFM before batterskull is flashed in on turn 3 but it really isn't as amazing as it used to be unfortunately.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
This argument is flawed, not by the initial argument, but by the examples given thereafter.
First, if they flash in the batterskull, and you destroy it via Nature's Claim, you've won on the mana spent battle, and their 1/2 creature is too weak to be a legitimate threat.
Next, them hardcasting a Batterskull has nothing to do with the example you gave, nor is it a legitimate point even if it were, because no Caw-Blade player is tapping out when we're at Titan mana, ever.
Back to the first thing I said. Yes, it can be about making them spend their mana inefficiently, but Nature's Claim can make them do that by spending 2 mana during an endstep to flash in the equipment, then by spending the equip mana (assuming it's a sword) giving us a half time walk of sorts.
I personally don't see any good caw player ever getting Batterskull against Valakut because a 5-turn clock isn't scary in the least. If we resolve titan, we're probably going to win regardless of an equipment. Feast and Famine is the real threat as it attacks our hand while simultaneously allowing them to cast threats and keep counter mana up 100% of the time.
Good points. I agree that it's a symbiotic relationship: the creatures need the equipment to be good, but the equipment (save Batterskull) needs creatures to be good. Either way, as long as you handle one side of it, you're probably in ok shape.
The only problem with it is it is more easily countered being a 3 drop against soft counters like mana leak and spell pierce while nature's claim is hard to spell pierce/mana leak later on.
That's pretty much the issue in a nutshell. BW's only advantage is its versatility.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Hmm, now that they also have acess to pro red via SoWaP bolting hawks is pretty much off the board. Combust is the removal of choice after SB imo.
Well Combust has the same problem as Lightning Bolt when it comes to Pro-Red (ala SoWaP) with the Bolt as least being better as a in response play.
As far as the Lightning Bolt vs Nature's Claim discussion. Would it be wise to run them in some sort of split in your deck and have more copies of each in your sideboard?
Nature's Claim solves all these problems, Back to Nature can be even bigger against Twin combo since it can't be redirected by Spellskite. It also hits Tumble Magnets and other relevant artifact creatures.
I hope you are referring to nature's claim, because back to nature doesn't hit artifacts. With aggro being pretty much phased out answering the artifacts is acceptable as a replacement for bolt, your bolts are dead against Exarchtwin and nature's claim is good in just about every matchup now.
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Type 2 UBControlBU UWDelverWU BWUSuperfriendsUWB
Type 2 in development WBUCounterless Solar FlareBWU
Type 2 Retired UBWControlBUW RBVampiresBR GRValakutGR GElves!G GBEldrazi GreenBG
Deceiver Exarch is a 1/4, and even if he wasn't spellskite can redirect it to himself.
Batterskull is a 4/4. Enough Said.
I think the key now is to Mainboard 4 Nature's Claim as Miguel Rondon did in Florida's Top 8, his deck is listed here
The Environment is completely flooded with Artifact and Enchantments now for them to not be so much of dead draws.
I personally will be running claims main, and Combust/Pyroclam sideboard.
Lets adapt fellas.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
I'm going to try and do some innovation over the next several days as I'm going to Louisville this coming weekend, and I'm hoping to play Valakut into a respectable finish.
If anyone has some techy lists, feel free to post them, it would be greatly appreciated.
Hes running an interesting sideboard.
Sideboard
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Terastodon
2 Combust
3 Ricochet Trap
3 Pyroclasm
2 Slagstorm
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Is Twin such a big threat that we need to run this many cards against it ?
2 Combust
3 Ricochet Trap
I know, I feel dirty too. I have been a huge advocate for 4 Bolts main for months now.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Props to Theismisacrime for the sig! Click for Trade list!
Major EDH player! Current decks: UUBraids, Waifu | UGZegana | RGWEnchantress Uril, the Miststalker | WBTriad of Fates (new!) | RBGXira Arien Re-dredge-imator (unretired!)
Eladamri | Anowon | Sydri | Melek | Augustin IV | Thelon | Sliver Overlord | Ramirez DePietro
Retired! Kangee | Kaalia
When it consistently beats Cawblade, then we can start maining 4 Nature's Claim.
Akuma will wreck you.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
This is a competitive forum, I'm referring to competitive meta such as Opens and GPs, which they will be.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
I really like Combust as a 4-of out of the side. It hits everything in Caw except a Batterskull'd Mystic, and it's an out to Colonnade.
Not sure I follow.
Twin actualy IS such a threat. The deck is horrible. Don t forget there are LOTS of card along the combo, and that the deck could kill you almost at the second your tapped out.
Claim main deck don t even gives you the edge: it just leaves you a small chance...
Destroying the equipment they fetch is better than killing the SFM itself is what they're getting at.
That's not always the case, though. One of the only ways for Valakut to beat Caw is to force them to use their mana inefficiently. Flashing in a Batterskull in turn 3 is potentially game-breaking, but hardcasting a Batterskull on turn 5/6 really isn't that crazy.
This argument is flawed, not by the initial argument, but by the examples given thereafter.
First, if they flash in the batterskull, and you destroy it via Nature's Claim, you've won on the mana spent battle, and their 1/2 creature is too weak to be a legitimate threat.
Next, them hardcasting a Batterskull has nothing to do with the example you gave, nor is it a legitimate point even if it were, because no Caw-Blade player is tapping out when we're at Titan mana, ever.
Back to the first thing I said. Yes, it can be about making them spend their mana inefficiently, but Nature's Claim can make them do that by spending 2 mana during an endstep to flash in the equipment, then by spending the equip mana (assuming it's a sword) giving us a half time walk of sorts.
I personally don't see any good caw player ever getting Batterskull against Valakut because a 5-turn clock isn't scary in the least. If we resolve titan, we're probably going to win regardless of an equipment. Feast and Famine is the real threat as it attacks our hand while simultaneously allowing them to cast threats and keep counter mana up 100% of the time.
On lightning bolt. It's good for killing RUG creatures and SFM before batterskull is flashed in on turn 3 but it really isn't as amazing as it used to be unfortunately.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Good points. I agree that it's a symbiotic relationship: the creatures need the equipment to be good, but the equipment (save Batterskull) needs creatures to be good. Either way, as long as you handle one side of it, you're probably in ok shape.
That's pretty much the issue in a nutshell. BW's only advantage is its versatility.
Well Combust has the same problem as Lightning Bolt when it comes to Pro-Red (ala SoWaP) with the Bolt as least being better as a in response play.
As far as the Lightning Bolt vs Nature's Claim discussion. Would it be wise to run them in some sort of split in your deck and have more copies of each in your sideboard?
Deceiver Exarch, Batterskull, Sword of War and Peace equipped creatures and Spellskite. It also can't kill sworded Stoneforge Mystic.
Nature's Claim solves all these problems, Back to Nature can be even bigger against Twin combo since it can't be redirected by Spellskite. It also hits Tumble Magnets and other relevant artifact creatures.
UBControlBU
UWDelverWU
BWUSuperfriendsUWB
Type 2 in development
WBUCounterless Solar FlareBWU
Type 2 Retired
UBWControlBUW
RBVampiresBR
GRValakutGR
GElves!G
GBEldrazi GreenBG
Legacy
UWStonebladeWU
EDH
GWRhys the RedeemedWG
GWURafiq of the ManyUWG
GRWMayael the AnimaWRG