With Fiery Temper spoiled, how will this one time favorite mechanic way back from Odyssey be good in Standard/Modern? What madness cards do you expect to get reprinted too? Also, some discard outlet reprints (Wild Mongrel or Zombie Infestation)?
As an overall expectation, what do you guys think?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
Anyway, Fiery Temper is pretty good. However, Wizards kind of has a track record lately of bringing back beloved mechanics and nerfing them or overcosting them because everything is "too good" for Standard these days. As such, I'm going to be cynical and not get my hopes up of getting anything amazing or getting any reprints like Circular Logic. But hey, if I'm wrong and we DO get some amazing new Madness cards, I'll be fine with that.
I would think Dark Withering would be a very fitting reprint and I could see it happening. Obsessive Research seems very flavorful for Innistrad and would be a nice little reprint. Psychotic Episode also sounds like it would fit the Innistrad flavor.
Easy: all the looting and rummaging effects that have built up over time. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy will be a major player as SOI Jace himself likely will be. Might Akoum Flameseeker suddenly become relevant to competitive players? Of course, Tormenting Voice will also be major, and for all we know it could be reprinted in SOI.
While I previously guessed that Madness will be centered in BR, I think it reasonable to expect a UR archetype instead as Madness is clearly Flashback's replacement as chief spell mechanic of the block. And UR is the pair most commonly associated with mad science, after all.
As for reprints:
Obsessive Search - It's a neat little card drawing spell that shows off the mechanic in a simple yet appealing manner. That said, I think it just as likely that we'll get a Weave Fate with Madness 1U. Although, that's probably too cheap considering you can play it with Tormenting Voice. Drawing four for 2UR? Madness! So probably 2U. Grave Scrabbler - As a Gravedigger variant, this one seems fairly suitable. Bonus points for the fact it can sabotage your opponents' efforts at enabling Delirium and it can play well in 2HG which will still be fresh on our minds from OTG. Violent Eruption - Volcanic activity is known to occur on Innistrad, and this is pretty much Fiery Temper's bigger sibling.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
My bet would be that Grave Scrabbler will be reprinted, since it's a futureshift that fits in pretty well. It probably won't be the only card like that, either -- I'd expect there to be other cards that give additional effects if you madness them.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Back then, UG madness was a thing and during Time Spiral it was BR. I'm wondering what it will be this time. I'm still hoping if Wild Mongrel and/or Basking Rootwalla could hop on to Innistrad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
Now that red is getting looting as a mechanic i could see Fiery Temper becoming a staple, exactly in what deck i am unsure. Jace obviously has massive potential, but they would need to print something more interesting than Obsessive Search to make things interesting.
Anyway there is loads of room in that mechanic and i am looking forward to seeing what new stuff they come up with. Maybe Blast from the Past should make a comeback.
I'm wondering if Innistrad can support or has "Incarnations"? Like for instance, Anger, Filth or even Wonder to power up madness like it did before. Or if not direct reprints, perhaps something new that works similar.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
I'm wondering if Innistrad can support or has "Incarnations"? Like for instance, Anger, Filth or even Wonder to power up madness like it did before. Or if not direct reprints, perhaps something new that works similar.
More incarnations I would love, although Filth would need replaced. Valor needs a reprint already like the other non-Filth ones, just to have it in a new border.
Just a reminder, this not the forum for Custom Card Creation. So, while you may speculate on the types of effects you'd like to see and on what cards you hope will return, please refrain from posting full custom cards. Thank you
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Just a reminder, this not the forum for Custom Card Creation. So, while you may speculate on the types of effects you'd like to see and on what cards you hope will return, please refrain from posting full custom cards. Thank you
Girls just wanna have fun
Public Mod Note
(Wildfire393):
Spam warning issued
I did pick up a cheap playset of Avaricious Dragon too, yesterday. He's gonna take some real consideration though. I don't think we can just jam 4x into our decks and expect it will be amazing. For all the crazy scenarios you can imagine where you discard nothing but madness cards and have infinite mana available to cast them all and blow them out, there will probably be an equal # of scenarios where he comes out when your hand is already empty and you're essentially top-decking twice each turn (and then dumping potentially-valuable cards that you wish you could just keep a few more turns 'til you're sure you don't need em) or....he just gets removed and you suddenly miss that hand. Yikes. I'm probably gonna go research Grafted Skullcap because I seem to recall it having seen some competitive play somewhere over the years. Still, he's a $1 Mythic Rare--I don't really mind taking that chance.
I think this time around there will be more discard outlets like Lightning Axe as well as discard riders like Compelling Deterrence.
This creates an interesting tension in which you may want not want to cast Compelling Deterrence for fear that your opponent may have a Madness card.
Anyway, Fiery Temper is pretty good. However, Wizards kind of has a track record lately of bringing back beloved mechanics and nerfing them or overcosting them because everything is "too good" for Standard these days. As such, I'm going to be cynical and not get my hopes up of getting anything amazing or getting any reprints like Circular Logic. But hey, if I'm wrong and we DO get some amazing new Madness cards, I'll be fine with that.
I would think Dark Withering would be a very fitting reprint and I could see it happening. Obsessive Research seems very flavorful for Innistrad and would be a nice little reprint. Psychotic Episode also sounds like it would fit the Innistrad flavor.
Everytime I read about some wizard rep saying something along the lines of that, I keep thinking about how they seem to want Standard to be on the power level of Portal and Portal Second Age. The only issue is that if they down-power everything it limits what kinds of cool interactions they can do in the set since the game still is based on a certain number of turns being played. EDH is great since it lets a lot of "what could have been" be played fairly.
Merfolk looter and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy get stronger with Shadows and I got a feeling we'll see a lot of the later in standard just to try and capitalize on the controlled discard. Assuming anyone can manage to find, let alone purchase, Jace. They need to reprint those flip walkers in some dual decks or something given how badly origins went with pack openings.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I will be very surprised indeed if we get this guy back. He's probably TOO good.
I actually kinda do think MaRo is on a personal mission to print a card in this set that will finally make One with Nothing very playable indeed. Based on absolutely nothing other than this seems like just the type of thing he might obsess over for years..
I will be surprised if we see quite as many 'simple' Madness cards like Fiery Temper this time around. I mean, this is the THIRD time Madness is coming back. Simple 'Play for X, Madness for Y' is gonna show up in some % because of NWO concerns but I hope they are a bit more clever NEW riffs on Madness this time. It's time to see what else can be done with it besides basic cost reduction.
Things that trigger off of Madness events: do additional damage, give you tokens, draw cards, make folks discard, add +1/+1 counters, Milling, that type of stuff. There's a zillion things they could do here.
We'll also get some of those really fun 'pretzel' cards that if you play/time them juuuust right, you get a total blowout effect. Maybe sacrificing or exiling permanents or cards somewhere to permanently reduce all your Madness costs by that number. Maybe it's counterspells (without Madness) that are cheaper if you've (or any player) has played a card for Madness this turn. Or some Giant Growth variant that gives you a similar +5/+5 mode option if Madness was played this turn. Again, literally endless things to do here..
Or we could just finally get a Fluctuator (or maybe more likely, a Warbringer..probably in B) for Madness.
As an overall expectation, what do you guys think?
Anyway, Fiery Temper is pretty good. However, Wizards kind of has a track record lately of bringing back beloved mechanics and nerfing them or overcosting them because everything is "too good" for Standard these days. As such, I'm going to be cynical and not get my hopes up of getting anything amazing or getting any reprints like Circular Logic. But hey, if I'm wrong and we DO get some amazing new Madness cards, I'll be fine with that.
I would think Dark Withering would be a very fitting reprint and I could see it happening. Obsessive Research seems very flavorful for Innistrad and would be a nice little reprint. Psychotic Episode also sounds like it would fit the Innistrad flavor.
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
While I previously guessed that Madness will be centered in BR, I think it reasonable to expect a UR archetype instead as Madness is clearly Flashback's replacement as chief spell mechanic of the block. And UR is the pair most commonly associated with mad science, after all.
As for reprints:
Obsessive Search - It's a neat little card drawing spell that shows off the mechanic in a simple yet appealing manner. That said, I think it just as likely that we'll get a Weave Fate with Madness 1U. Although, that's probably too cheap considering you can play it with Tormenting Voice. Drawing four for 2UR? Madness! So probably 2U.
Grave Scrabbler - As a Gravedigger variant, this one seems fairly suitable. Bonus points for the fact it can sabotage your opponents' efforts at enabling Delirium and it can play well in 2HG which will still be fresh on our minds from OTG.
Violent Eruption - Volcanic activity is known to occur on Innistrad, and this is pretty much Fiery Temper's bigger sibling.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I'm hoping for Brain Gorgers.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Now that red is getting looting as a mechanic i could see Fiery Temper becoming a staple, exactly in what deck i am unsure. Jace obviously has massive potential, but they would need to print something more interesting than Obsessive Search to make things interesting.
Anyway there is loads of room in that mechanic and i am looking forward to seeing what new stuff they come up with. Maybe Blast from the Past should make a comeback.
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
More incarnations I would love, although Filth would need replaced. Valor needs a reprint already like the other non-Filth ones, just to have it in a new border.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
On a serious note, some Modern Madness enablers worth considering are:
Desolate Lighthouse
Looter il-Kor (a budget Jace, but still a solid card)
Izzet Charm
Fauna Shaman (can also work well with Delirium. Fetch a Dryad Arbor/Courser of Kruphix, and then dump that as well)
Rotting Rats
Faithless Looting (duh)
Monastery Siege
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!
Girls just wanna have fun
Legal where? It's not in standard at all.
DO IT, WIZARDS.
It's not even on the Reserved List.
DEFINITELY agree people seem to be sleeping on Chandra's potential here. I bought 2x the day I saw Fiery Temper spoiled.
Another rather sneaky one someone mentioned the other day is Kozilek, the Great Distortion. Ehh?
I did pick up a cheap playset of Avaricious Dragon too, yesterday. He's gonna take some real consideration though. I don't think we can just jam 4x into our decks and expect it will be amazing. For all the crazy scenarios you can imagine where you discard nothing but madness cards and have infinite mana available to cast them all and blow them out, there will probably be an equal # of scenarios where he comes out when your hand is already empty and you're essentially top-decking twice each turn (and then dumping potentially-valuable cards that you wish you could just keep a few more turns 'til you're sure you don't need em) or....he just gets removed and you suddenly miss that hand. Yikes. I'm probably gonna go research Grafted Skullcap because I seem to recall it having seen some competitive play somewhere over the years. Still, he's a $1 Mythic Rare--I don't really mind taking that chance.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
This creates an interesting tension in which you may want not want to cast Compelling Deterrence for fear that your opponent may have a Madness card.
Everytime I read about some wizard rep saying something along the lines of that, I keep thinking about how they seem to want Standard to be on the power level of Portal and Portal Second Age. The only issue is that if they down-power everything it limits what kinds of cool interactions they can do in the set since the game still is based on a certain number of turns being played. EDH is great since it lets a lot of "what could have been" be played fairly.
Merfolk looter and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy get stronger with Shadows and I got a feeling we'll see a lot of the later in standard just to try and capitalize on the controlled discard. Assuming anyone can manage to find, let alone purchase, Jace. They need to reprint those flip walkers in some dual decks or something given how badly origins went with pack openings.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I actually kinda do think MaRo is on a personal mission to print a card in this set that will finally make One with Nothing very playable indeed. Based on absolutely nothing other than this seems like just the type of thing he might obsess over for years..
I will be surprised if we see quite as many 'simple' Madness cards like Fiery Temper this time around. I mean, this is the THIRD time Madness is coming back. Simple 'Play for X, Madness for Y' is gonna show up in some % because of NWO concerns but I hope they are a bit more clever NEW riffs on Madness this time. It's time to see what else can be done with it besides basic cost reduction.
Things that trigger off of Madness events: do additional damage, give you tokens, draw cards, make folks discard, add +1/+1 counters, Milling, that type of stuff. There's a zillion things they could do here.
We'll also get some of those really fun 'pretzel' cards that if you play/time them juuuust right, you get a total blowout effect. Maybe sacrificing or exiling permanents or cards somewhere to permanently reduce all your Madness costs by that number. Maybe it's counterspells (without Madness) that are cheaper if you've (or any player) has played a card for Madness this turn. Or some Giant Growth variant that gives you a similar +5/+5 mode option if Madness was played this turn. Again, literally endless things to do here..
Or we could just finally get a Fluctuator (or maybe more likely, a Warbringer..probably in B) for Madness.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!