Not sure if this should be in BaseSpec or not, so I'll post it here. If this is wrong, mods, please move it to the correct place. I don't post in the Rumor Mill very often, so I don't exactly know my way around here.
Anyway, on to the actual content of this thread. When looking at the M15 spoiler, I noticed something. Darksteel Citadel is #242/269. Sliver Hive is #247/269. Since basics start at 250, this would point to a cycle of lands, possibly rare ones. Onslaught fetches are the first thing that comes to mind, and would make the most sense because they wouldn't screw up Standard's mana that much and are desperately in need of a reprint, but there are definitely other options as well.
Onslaught fetches work, as shown here, although there would have to be at least one other nonbasic in M15:
Note that M10 checklands don't work because that would mean five lands (Dragonskull Summit, Drowned Catacomb, Glacial Fortress, Radiant Fountain, and Rootbound Crag) which have collector numbers 243-246. All other existing Modern-legal rare land cycles (except for Temples) do work as far as I can tell, though I haven't done the math for the Ice Age duals yet.
One thing to keep in mind is that MaRo has stated that they'll generally try to do full 10-card cycles of duals in the future so that the mana in Block Constructed is good, and so that every color pair gets an equal amount of love, but there are several reasons that they would be breaking this rule.
What is Radiant Fountain, and why are you using it to disqualify the M10 lands?
Radiant Fountain is a common land that taps for colorless and you gain 2 life when it comes in. I'm using it to disqualify the M10 lands because there's only space for four lands in the collector numbers between Darksteel Citadel and Sliver Hive. With the M10 lands, there would have to be five, so it doesn't work.
If there is not 10 lands slots, then we probably won't get dual land cycles, MaRo said that they will not make incomplete dual cycles. The collector number might points to a high number of artifacts, since Shrapnel Blast points to an artifact subtheme.
Althought there is still 10 slots for lands. Soul of New Phyrexia is #231, so #232~#236 are the Staff Cycle, we have #242 Darksteel Citadel, #247 Sliver Hive and Radiant Fountain between them, wich leaves exactly 10 free slots.
I also think that the "no incomplete dual cycles" are taken a bit too far.
It's not as if it was impossible to have five duals in theros and the rest in BNG+JOU. In a similar manner, I think they could do five duals here and then five in KTK.
There is space for another ten lands, but as I had it pointed out to me in another thread, five of them would have to fit before Darksteel Citadel in the alphabet.
I believe there will be a cycle of five lands that produce coloured mana, and that this is either colour-specific man- or utility-lands, or the first five of a 10-land cycle that is completed in KTK.
If there is not 10 lands slots, then we probably won't get dual land cycles, MaRo said that they will not make incomplete dual cycles. The collector number might points to a high number of artifacts, since Shrapnel Blast points to an artifact subtheme.
Althought there is still 10 slots for lands. Soul of New Phyrexia is #231, so #232~#236 are the Staff Cycle, we have #242 Darksteel Citadel, #247 Sliver Hive and Radiant Fountain between them, wich leaves exactly 10 free slots.
That was never said. What was said however, is that they don't like to have incomplete dual cycles within a block.
I also think that the "no incomplete dual cycles" are taken a bit too far.
It's not as if it was impossible to have five duals in theros and the rest in BNG+JOU. In a similar manner, I think they could do five duals here and then five in KTK.
There is space for another ten lands, but as I had it pointed out to me in another thread, five of them would have to fit before Darksteel Citadel in the alphabet.
I believe there will be a cycle of five lands that produce coloured mana, and that this is either colour-specific man- or utility-lands, or the first five of a 10-land cycle that is completed in KTK.
You really don't see the difference in a stand alone Core Set that is only Standard legal for a year and a set a part of the block that is legal for two years and how spreading a land "cycle" across those two makes no sense?
I also think that the "no incomplete dual cycles" are taken a bit too far.
It's not as if it was impossible to have five duals in theros and the rest in BNG+JOU. In a similar manner, I think they could do five duals here and then five in KTK.
There is space for another ten lands, but as I had it pointed out to me in another thread, five of them would have to fit before Darksteel Citadel in the alphabet.
I believe there will be a cycle of five lands that produce coloured mana, and that this is either colour-specific man- or utility-lands, or the first five of a 10-land cycle that is completed in KTK.
You really don't see the difference in a stand alone Core Set that is only Standard legal for a year and a set a part of the block that is legal for two years and how spreading a land "cycle" across those two makes no sense?
They could just reprint the same cycle in M16. Like how the allied checks where standard legal all the time with the enemy checks from Innistrad.
I find it hard to believe that they would instate a "ten or zero" policy when it comes to core set duals..
I also think that the "no incomplete dual cycles" are taken a bit too far.
It's not as if it was impossible to have five duals in theros and the rest in BNG+JOU. In a similar manner, I think they could do five duals here and then five in KTK.
There is space for another ten lands, but as I had it pointed out to me in another thread, five of them would have to fit before Darksteel Citadel in the alphabet.
I believe there will be a cycle of five lands that produce coloured mana, and that this is either colour-specific man- or utility-lands, or the first five of a 10-land cycle that is completed in KTK.
You really don't see the difference in a stand alone Core Set that is only Standard legal for a year and a set a part of the block that is legal for two years and how spreading a land "cycle" across those two makes no sense?
This is easily solvable by printing the duals in M16 also, so that the whole cycle of 10 rotates at the same time. I'm not saying it will happen, but there is no reason it couldn't.
The issue with what you are saying is that Khans Block Constructed would still only have access to half the land cycle, which would mess with the format. Innistrad block is a perfect example of this (enemy checks only meant only those colour pairs had consistent mana), and is in fact the reason why R&D brought up the horribly misquoted "no incomplete cycles".
As for the actual thread topic, we've been discussing this over in the Number Crunch thread. I've reached mostly the same conclusions as you, and it looks like we'll need to wait for more spoilers to rule any more out, assuming there isn't just a completely new land cycle.
Personally, I like the manland theory, as they're exciting lands that a new player would actually like to open.
They have actually already used that solution, with the checklands in M12, Innistrad, and M13, so it's definitely possible that they would do it again. Granted, that time the allied-color duals had been printed twice before that, but still.
They have actually already used that solution, with the checklands in M12, Innistrad, and M13, so it's definitely possible that they would do it again. Granted, that time the allied-color duals had been printed twice before that, but still.
That is exactly the point, incomplete cycles makes block restricted, something they don't want.
In that case, they could just do something like Zendikar where they print a cycle of rare lands and a cycle of uncommon lands in the other color pairs. Or they could just get rid of Block altogether since almost no one plays it outside of the PT. But yeah, that does make it less likely.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Anyway, on to the actual content of this thread. When looking at the M15 spoiler, I noticed something. Darksteel Citadel is #242/269. Sliver Hive is #247/269. Since basics start at 250, this would point to a cycle of lands, possibly rare ones. Onslaught fetches are the first thing that comes to mind, and would make the most sense because they wouldn't screw up Standard's mana that much and are desperately in need of a reprint, but there are definitely other options as well.
Onslaught fetches work, as shown here, although there would have to be at least one other nonbasic in M15:
(?)/269 Bloodstained Mire
242/269 Darksteel Citadel
(?)/269 Flooded Strand
(?)/269 Polluted Delta
(?)/269 Radiant Fountain
247/269 Sliver Hive
248/269 Windswept Heath
249/269 Wooded Foothills
Note that M10 checklands don't work because that would mean five lands (Dragonskull Summit, Drowned Catacomb, Glacial Fortress, Radiant Fountain, and Rootbound Crag) which have collector numbers 243-246. All other existing Modern-legal rare land cycles (except for Temples) do work as far as I can tell, though I haven't done the math for the Ice Age duals yet.
One thing to keep in mind is that MaRo has stated that they'll generally try to do full 10-card cycles of duals in the future so that the mana in Block Constructed is good, and so that every color pair gets an equal amount of love, but there are several reasons that they would be breaking this rule.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Radiant Fountain is a common land that taps for colorless and you gain 2 life when it comes in. I'm using it to disqualify the M10 lands because there's only space for four lands in the collector numbers between Darksteel Citadel and Sliver Hive. With the M10 lands, there would have to be five, so it doesn't work.
Althought there is still 10 slots for lands. Soul of New Phyrexia is #231, so #232~#236 are the Staff Cycle, we have #242 Darksteel Citadel, #247 Sliver Hive and Radiant Fountain between them, wich leaves exactly 10 free slots.
It's not as if it was impossible to have five duals in theros and the rest in BNG+JOU. In a similar manner, I think they could do five duals here and then five in KTK.
There is space for another ten lands, but as I had it pointed out to me in another thread, five of them would have to fit before Darksteel Citadel in the alphabet.
I believe there will be a cycle of five lands that produce coloured mana, and that this is either colour-specific man- or utility-lands, or the first five of a 10-land cycle that is completed in KTK.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
That was never said. What was said however, is that they don't like to have incomplete dual cycles within a block.
You really don't see the difference in a stand alone Core Set that is only Standard legal for a year and a set a part of the block that is legal for two years and how spreading a land "cycle" across those two makes no sense?
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
They could just reprint the same cycle in M16. Like how the allied checks where standard legal all the time with the enemy checks from Innistrad.
I find it hard to believe that they would instate a "ten or zero" policy when it comes to core set duals..
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
This is easily solvable by printing the duals in M16 also, so that the whole cycle of 10 rotates at the same time. I'm not saying it will happen, but there is no reason it couldn't.
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
As for the actual thread topic, we've been discussing this over in the Number Crunch thread. I've reached mostly the same conclusions as you, and it looks like we'll need to wait for more spoilers to rule any more out, assuming there isn't just a completely new land cycle.
Personally, I like the manland theory, as they're exciting lands that a new player would actually like to open.