As we're getting more and more information about M12, one thing is curiously missing: the blockbuster mythics which will make sure the set sells well and distinguish the set from M11.
Possibilities:
1. Rely on Titans again? I doubt they'd use the same trick twice in a row. They won't be nearly as effective this time anyways due to all the M11 Titans currently in circulation.
2. Even better creatures? Doubtful. For one, I think they've learned that Titans are about as far as they can push creatures right now. Second, if they were going to be printing "Super Titans" they wouldn't also be reprinting the originals.
Besides, we don't have that many mythics unaccounted for anymore.
3. Rely on rares? It's doubtful that this would work, given that rares are more common because of the addition of mythics. It would take something like no-drawback duals to do this โ and something of that caliber would draw attention away from the "PWs & friends" theme of the set. The PW-associated rares are good, but nowhere near the insane power level they'd need to be to sell the set at rare.
This leaves one option left.
4. Jace/Chandra/Garruk are new, not reprints.
At this point, I just don't see any other solution.
Its a good chance we'll see new PW'ers for exactly that reason. As you said, we haven't seen any reason to move M12. More titans? More samewalkers? That doesn't sell anything, the set would plummet, and the commons/uncommons are filler so far, and all but 2 mythics are known
There are 8 reprints at Mythic rarity in M12. (3 PWers, 5 Titans.) Half the Mythics are rotating. Why do people think that's "not enough"?
There would be 10 if we get the 5 PWs we believe are being printed. And you are sort of reiterating his point. In order to sell the set, the three core PWs will need to new. And then it WOULD be enough to satisfy us.
But if they are the 5 they are believed to be, we have them, the 5 titans and a really really bad mythic vampire. There is nothing that pushes mass sales.
Its a good chance we'll see new PW'ers for exactly that reason. As you said, we haven't seen any reason to move M12. More titans? More samewalkers? That doesn't sell anything, the set would plummet, and the commons/uncommons are filler so far, and all but 2 mythics are known
All but two?
We have 5 Titans, Sorin, Gideon, and the bad Vampire. I count 8 Known, and 3 speculatory (Jace 1.0, Garruk 1.0, and Chandra 1.0)
PeT wont even be that great once valakut rotates out...unless they print another land that can get abused like it. a 6/6 trampler that fetches land is good, but its certainly not crazy good like he is now.
if all 5 of the titans return, it will be kind of depressing. Heres to hoping they make quality non-mythic cards, and not just mythic-chasers to sell product.
There are 8 reprints at Mythic rarity in M12. (3 PWers, 5 Titans.) Half the Mythics are rotating. Why do people think that's "not enough"?
If Jace/Chandra/Garruk are in the set, that's 5 reprint PWs. If all Titans are indeed coming back, that's 10 reprints already. Possibly more, if they reprint Baneslayer Angel or Platinum Angel or any of the others.
Actually, forgive me... all 6 titans are not known to be in. 1 is known, 4 are speculatory. So really we only have 4 KNOWN mythics. and 7 Speculatory (highly likely). AT least by my count.
Actually, forgive me... all 6 titans are not known to be in. 1 is known, 4 are speculatory. So really we only have 4 KNOWN mythics. and 7 Speculatory (highly likely). AT least by my count.
Furyborn Hellkite is mythic, so we're at 5 known/12 known/speculated.
Actually, forgive me... all 6 titans are not known to be in. 1 is known, 4 are speculatory. So really we only have 4 KNOWN mythics. and 7 Speculatory (highly likely). AT least by my count.
Six Titans? There are only five, one for each color. Purple was never made a color
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I think this forum would be strictly better if people would stop trying to force the word strictly into discussions.
Personally I'm expecting Legendary Creatures to make a return to the core set. What with all the legend hype we're getting this summer in the way of Commander and the new FtV
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
As we're getting more and more information about M12, one thing is curiously missing: the blockbuster mythics which will make sure the set sells well and distinguish the set from M11.
We are close, but there is still some time before previews start for the set. There is still time for them to show off the set sellers.
Possibilities:
1. Rely on Titans again? I doubt they'd use the same trick twice in a row. They won't be nearly as effective this time anyways due to all the M11 Titans currently in circulation.
The Titans were created to give M11 something that stands out, something unique about it. Having them in M12 defeats the point of them.
2. Even better creatures? Doubtful. For one, I think they've learned that Titans are about as far as they can push creatures right now. Second, if they were going to be printing "Super Titans" they wouldn't also be reprinting the originals.
Power's subjective. They can push powerful creatures for other archetypes. For example, the titans are powerful creatures, but they could create powerful tribal lords.
The selling cards might not even be creatures. They could be spells.
3. Rely on rares? It's doubtful that this would work, given that rares are more common because of the addition of mythics. It would take something like no-drawback duals to do this โ and something of that caliber would draw attention away from the "PWs & friends" theme of the set. The PW-associated rares are good, but nowhere near the insane power level they'd need to be to sell the set at rare.
The point of the titans was to give the set soemthing defining. They tend to give set defining cards power so that they are actually good and playable. If a cycle of rares define the set, they'll give the power to them.
This leaves one option left.
4. Jace/Chandra/Garruk are new, not reprints.
That's unlikely for a whole host of reasons. Cheif among them is that the core set has no storyline.
At this point, I just don't see any other solution.
How about, there will be a cycle of rares/mythics, and we haven't seen it yet? Or perhaps they'll be doing something else to define the set in people's minds.
Why is it so absolutely critical for WoTC to push a Core Set so heavily?
We're already two years past their stated objective of acquiring a new player base, which according to pretty much every source I've read has been a successful bid. A consumer renewal bid will only take you so far before you start suffering from diminishing returns.
Assuming WoTC wants to shift focus towards serving their renewed player base, it makes sense to slow things down a bit and concentrate on a more reprint-heavy core set which allows new and returning players to catch up with new cards, stabilize the secondary market and give collectors a breather after two release-heavy years.
Although their income comes mainly from selling cards, Wizards has more than one way to make a profit besides relying on yearly core sets featuring 50% new cards. Pushing new sanctioned formats such as Modern, FNM-legal Block and Extended and of course Commander generates more demand for older cards. Historically, core set reprints satisfied part of this demand, and considering how many powerhouse staples have been printed in the past couple of years it's no wonder we're seeing a second Titan print rather than an all-new, all-powerful lineup.
There is also the possibility that WoTC wants to shift some of its focus towards the profitable casual and social segments of the video-game industry. If they expect to use D12 as an acquisition bid for electronic gamers (many of whom already lean towards the Spike psychographic), giving the secondary market a breather would allow these incoming players to get into the game without having to invest absurd amounts of money in key staples.
If I were WoTC, I'd ease down on M12, push hard on Modern and Extended and issue a new print run of every expansion since Mirrodin. That'll give active both active and new players something to do, as well as provide some much-needed support for non-Standard format. Plus, as an old-timer, I'd jump at the chance of drafting MD5, RGD, TPF and such for a change.
Ooohhh ... Onslaught fetchland reprints would be hot! I like the idea of Mythic tribal lords too. Garruk 2.0, Jace 3.0, and Chandra 3.0 would be rad too. Imma play the mono-Jace deck before the rotation, lol.
But yeah, so far M12 looks pretty unexciting so far, but maybe that's just my disappointment about Scry going away.
Reprinting old sets seems like a great idea .. but .. feels "off" for some reason. :/
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
With the fast lands still in play for a year this is the Perfect core set for Off color Slow Lands (M10-11 style).
Works well with "wedge" generals too.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
How about, there will be a cycle of rares/mythics, and we haven't seen it yet? Or perhaps they'll be doing something else to define the set in people's minds.
There's simply not room for another cycle of mythics. We already know 3 red mythics - Chandra, Inferno Titan, and Furyborn Hellkite.
And we know how they're defining the set, since they've already started the marketing. The theme is PWs+friends. If they wanted to use a cycle of rares, they'd likely use the PW-associated ones. But the ones we have already are not good enough for that purpose, given the extremely high standards needed for a rare to get that high in price.
Unconfirmed? We have a freaking picture of him with a m12 symbol on it from a WoTC product... It can not get more confirmed then that. Give it up seriously
@ Op i speculated this, new version of planeswalkers in the core set a few weeks ago. But think i changed my opinion on it to just new artwork. I expect the core set to packed full of "good cards" rather then a few chase mythics to sell the set. Similar to zendikar which has fetches, gobo guide, bloodghast, Doj and other solid rares and uncommons and 2 semi chase mythic(cobra, monument). Considering Zendikar is one of the best selling set of all time i do not see why they would not recreate that.
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Possibilities:
1. Rely on Titans again? I doubt they'd use the same trick twice in a row. They won't be nearly as effective this time anyways due to all the M11 Titans currently in circulation.
2. Even better creatures? Doubtful. For one, I think they've learned that Titans are about as far as they can push creatures right now. Second, if they were going to be printing "Super Titans" they wouldn't also be reprinting the originals.
Besides, we don't have that many mythics unaccounted for anymore.
3. Rely on rares? It's doubtful that this would work, given that rares are more common because of the addition of mythics. It would take something like no-drawback duals to do this โ and something of that caliber would draw attention away from the "PWs & friends" theme of the set. The PW-associated rares are good, but nowhere near the insane power level they'd need to be to sell the set at rare.
This leaves one option left.
4. Jace/Chandra/Garruk are new, not reprints.
At this point, I just don't see any other solution.
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There would be 10 if we get the 5 PWs we believe are being printed. And you are sort of reiterating his point. In order to sell the set, the three core PWs will need to new. And then it WOULD be enough to satisfy us.
But if they are the 5 they are believed to be, we have them, the 5 titans and a really really bad mythic vampire. There is nothing that pushes mass sales.
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All but two?
We have 5 Titans, Sorin, Gideon, and the bad Vampire. I count 8 Known, and 3 speculatory (Jace 1.0, Garruk 1.0, and Chandra 1.0)
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if all 5 of the titans return, it will be kind of depressing. Heres to hoping they make quality non-mythic cards, and not just mythic-chasers to sell product.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
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If Jace/Chandra/Garruk are in the set, that's 5 reprint PWs. If all Titans are indeed coming back, that's 10 reprints already. Possibly more, if they reprint Baneslayer Angel or Platinum Angel or any of the others.
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WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Hmm more mythic lands? I am having a hard time picturing one. Maybe I am just having a brain gasp. But I cant picture one... what one is there?
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Furyborn Hellkite is mythic, so we're at 5 known/12 known/speculated.
Eye of Ugin
Plus technically Strip Mine, though that doesn't really count.
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Eye of Ugin
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
Ahh eye of ugin. There was a good reason I couldnt remember
Right. Forgot about the hellkite. Also pretty lack luster
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Six Titans? There are only five, one for each color. Purple was never made a color
Legendary Creature โ Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Sorin
Gideon
Furyborn Hellkite
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
Jace (unknown form)
Chandra (unknown form)
Garruk (unknown form)
Unconfirmed Mythics: 1
Inferno Titan
Speculated Mythics: 4
The other 4 Titans
Unknown Mythics: 3
White Mythic #3 (Baneslayer Angel?)
Blue Mythic #3
Green Mythic #3
The only thing I see being the major seller is if the currently unknown Mythics are brand new and provide a big enough "WOW" factor.
That, and if Jace, Chandra, and Garruk are all new, as previously mentioned.
Ah, well, I'm sure they've got a trick up their sleeves. If they don't, so much the better: I save a boatload of money.
We are close, but there is still some time before previews start for the set. There is still time for them to show off the set sellers.
The Titans were created to give M11 something that stands out, something unique about it. Having them in M12 defeats the point of them.
Power's subjective. They can push powerful creatures for other archetypes. For example, the titans are powerful creatures, but they could create powerful tribal lords.
The selling cards might not even be creatures. They could be spells.
The point of the titans was to give the set soemthing defining. They tend to give set defining cards power so that they are actually good and playable. If a cycle of rares define the set, they'll give the power to them.
That's unlikely for a whole host of reasons. Cheif among them is that the core set has no storyline.
How about, there will be a cycle of rares/mythics, and we haven't seen it yet? Or perhaps they'll be doing something else to define the set in people's minds.
We're already two years past their stated objective of acquiring a new player base, which according to pretty much every source I've read has been a successful bid. A consumer renewal bid will only take you so far before you start suffering from diminishing returns.
Assuming WoTC wants to shift focus towards serving their renewed player base, it makes sense to slow things down a bit and concentrate on a more reprint-heavy core set which allows new and returning players to catch up with new cards, stabilize the secondary market and give collectors a breather after two release-heavy years.
Although their income comes mainly from selling cards, Wizards has more than one way to make a profit besides relying on yearly core sets featuring 50% new cards. Pushing new sanctioned formats such as Modern, FNM-legal Block and Extended and of course Commander generates more demand for older cards. Historically, core set reprints satisfied part of this demand, and considering how many powerhouse staples have been printed in the past couple of years it's no wonder we're seeing a second Titan print rather than an all-new, all-powerful lineup.
There is also the possibility that WoTC wants to shift some of its focus towards the profitable casual and social segments of the video-game industry. If they expect to use D12 as an acquisition bid for electronic gamers (many of whom already lean towards the Spike psychographic), giving the secondary market a breather would allow these incoming players to get into the game without having to invest absurd amounts of money in key staples.
If I were WoTC, I'd ease down on M12, push hard on Modern and Extended and issue a new print run of every expansion since Mirrodin. That'll give active both active and new players something to do, as well as provide some much-needed support for non-Standard format. Plus, as an old-timer, I'd jump at the chance of drafting MD5, RGD, TPF and such for a change.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 for the sig!
But yeah, so far M12 looks pretty unexciting so far, but maybe that's just my disappointment about Scry going away.
Reprinting old sets seems like a great idea .. but .. feels "off" for some reason. :/
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Works well with "wedge" generals too.
There's simply not room for another cycle of mythics. We already know 3 red mythics - Chandra, Inferno Titan, and Furyborn Hellkite.
And we know how they're defining the set, since they've already started the marketing. The theme is PWs+friends. If they wanted to use a cycle of rares, they'd likely use the PW-associated ones. But the ones we have already are not good enough for that purpose, given the extremely high standards needed for a rare to get that high in price.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Unconfirmed? We have a freaking picture of him with a m12 symbol on it from a WoTC product... It can not get more confirmed then that. Give it up seriously
@ Op i speculated this, new version of planeswalkers in the core set a few weeks ago. But think i changed my opinion on it to just new artwork. I expect the core set to packed full of "good cards" rather then a few chase mythics to sell the set. Similar to zendikar which has fetches, gobo guide, bloodghast, Doj and other solid rares and uncommons and 2 semi chase mythic(cobra, monument). Considering Zendikar is one of the best selling set of all time i do not see why they would not recreate that.
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Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.