After seeing the new Surgical Extraction, I was wondering if there could be a Force of Will/Pact of Negation type counter. Maybe something like :sympu::sympu::sympu: As an additional cost RFG a blue card counter target spell.
Counterspell for :sympu::sympu::sympu: would be BETTER than Force of Will imho. So I think no true counterspell for zero mana will be printed soon/in NPH.
Paying 6 life for a free counter or UUU is better then force?
Paying 6 life for a free counter or UUU is better then force?
Quite a bit better in older formats. Force is a 2-for-1, life totals tend to matter less, and you have to play blue to have enough cards to pitch to it.
:sympu::sympu::sympu: Counterspell is probably too good. :sympu::sympu::sympu::sympu: Counterspell is probably printable though. Honestly, though, I think the most interesting cost for a free counter would be :sympu::sympu::sympb::sympb:
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Old terminology reference:
Play (noun): Battlefield
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Paying 6 life for a free counter or UUU is better then force?
Yes, because the decks you want force against don't really care about life total until they already won. Force isn't all that good if your doing something fair.
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Legacy - Cat Sligh:symr::symg::symw:
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
:sympu::sympu::sympu: Counterspell is probably too good. :sympu::sympu::sympu::sympu: Counterspell is probably printable though. Honestly, though, I think the most interesting cost for a free counter would be :sympu::sympu::sympb::sympb:
Yea, maybe multi colored would work, or if you added in the discard effect like force. So it could be :sympu::sympu: as an additional cost discard a blue card, or :sympu::sympb: as an additional cost discard a blue or black card.
Quite a bit better in older formats. Force is a 2-for-1, life totals tend to matter less, and you have to play blue to have enough cards to pitch to it.
What decks would want to play this card in the "older formats"?
Anyone else think that these Infect decks will be incredibly susceptible to Planeswalkers?
I will relish the first few weeks when my opponent swings this or the other Infect baddies into my Jace 2.0 and I say "ok no blocks" and they look at me dumbfounded as I lose no loyalty and gain no poison counters.
I'm sure noobs will catch on quickly but I know the above situation will happen.
A :sympu::sympu::sympu::sympu: or rather :sympu::sympu::sympb::sympb: would be probably playable in ethernal formats but not so much in T2.
I guess Mindbreak Trap was printed with eternal formats in mind too so in the end it's actually possible. But really only as mythic I guess.
No way would it ever be mythic. Counters are extremely utility. The reason Trap was mythic was it was made for one thing in mind, storm combo. Anything past 6 life would make the card unplayable, plus it has no reason to be black at all.
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Legacy - Cat Sligh:symr::symg::symw:
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
A phyrexian mana force would see tons of play in eternal formats.
Adding to the speculation, Aaron Forsythe said this: We also said things like, "It costs three-phi-phi" when the color was pretty unambiguous in context. it confirms a 3PP card at most.
I don't see them making a counterspell with the possibility of being completely free. Even with Force of Will, you need to have other blue cards in hand for it to be utilized efficiently. Something with the cost of :sympu::sympu::sympu: or similar that counters any spell can be used in any deck regardless of the color.
The closest thing I see them printing is something like:
Phyrexian CounterspellUU Instant
Counter target spell.
They said so themselves; Any hard counter they print nowadays will force you to pay at least UU. Now I'm not saying that I don't want it to happen. If they actually did print a potentially free counterspell, I would die of happiness. But lets be realistic.
well... they gave us a free extripate, and canceller looks busted... not to mention a number of other things from the block that look breakable (although some are just waiting their day methinks)... I don't think a new free counter is that far off.
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Currently Playing:UWBRG MAGIC: The Gathering UWBRG
except those don't matter in eternal formats, which is the cause for concern
Why is it cause for concern unless you're a player with a set of Forces that you're worried about tanking? I think it's a great idea to solve some of the eternal format problems without having to actually reprint anything. The new card could easily be printed at rare and stuffed into multiple precons in rapid succession like Master of Etherium.
Now, as for the power level, 6 life is a considerably steep cost. Sure, it might not matter in eternal, but it keeps the power level easily in check for standard.
I don't see them making a counterspell with the possibility of being completely free. Even with Force of Will, you need to have other blue cards in hand for it to be utilized efficiently. Something with the cost of :sympu::sympu::sympu: or similar that counters any spell can be used in any deck regardless of the color.
The closest thing I see them printing is something like:
They said so themselves; Any hard counter they print nowadays will force you to pay at least :symu::symu:. Now I'm not saying that I don't want it to happen. If they actually did print a potentially free counterspell, I would die if happiness. But lets be realistic.
After they said that, they printed Pact of Negation, which is 100% free and clear if you never have another upkeep. They also printed Not of this World which is free if you satisfy its rediculous restriction. There are exceptions to every rule.
well... they gave us a free extripate, and canceller looks busted... not to mention a number of other things from the block that look breakable (although some are just waiting their day methinks)... I don't think a new free counter is that far off.
True, but Wizards dislikes combo decks and Extirpate only costs B, so its not that much of a difference. Plus creatures nowadays are really powerful so Canceller isn't that surprising.
Although, potentially paying 6 life for a free counterspell is no slight drawback either...
After they said that, they printed Pact of Negation, which is 100% free and clear if you never have another upkeep. They also printed Not of this World which is free if you satisfy its rediculous restriction. There are exceptions to every rule.
Pact of Negation forces you to pay 3UU, and Not of this World has a ridiculous restriction that's greater than needing two U. True hard counters will always require UU in one form or another.
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Tournament Victories:
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
FI's point is, if the turn you win is the turn you play Pact of Negation, then it is effectively a completely free counter. And often times this winds up being the case.
Pact never forces you to to pay mana for it. You could always just lose the game, skip your upkeep, or counter the trigger. We do have cards like Abyssal Persecutor, Platinum Angel, and Angel's Grace.
True hard counters will always require UU in one form or another.
So hypothesize a non-hardcounter.
StrictlyWorseYetStillWithinASanePerson'sPriceRangeFOW:
:sympu::sympu:
Instant
As an additional cost to play SWYSWASPPRFOW, exile a blue card from your hand.
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays :3mana:.
Okay, longshot. It isn't perfect. In fact, quite bad. Look at all the drawbacks! In response, Wizard's prints it at common so paper pauper derps like myself lose it.
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Latest proof this forum is a trashfire:
Your authoritarianism will be the reason the company suffers another 60M in losses.
I think, if any phyrexian counter is printed, the 2:sympu::sympu: one Frenadol mentioned is the most likely. Or, per my earlier point, UU:sympu::sympu:. But I don't think 2:sympu::sympu: is unreasonable at all
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Has it been confirmed that Phyrexian mana can only be split between colored mana? The ones we have seen so far are, but if it could be colorless with a phyrexian mana split, I think we could reasonably see
Phyrexian counter (instant)
UUCCC/ phyrexian mana for each mana symbol (I'm not sure how to use the mana symbol/phyrexian mana symbol app)
It would be an elegant throwback in that it would have the exact same mana cost as FoW, but would also have the possibility of being free. It also seems like something WotC would do to make absolutely sure it wouldn't break any formats, as paying half your life total (assuming 20 here) for a colorless hard counter with no other drawback seems reasonable (in the sense that it would barely be usable as only a 1-of).
Idk, that just seems like something Wizards would do as it is elegant and almost unabusable
And totally unusable. Pay half your life: counter target spell?
Frenadol and Dobber are right. :2mana::sympu::sympu: seems most likely to me, if anything happens. Would it be a hard counter though, or...?
Why would it be totally unusable? I could see it as FoW #5 in legacy and possibly a one of in standard (or probably not at all in standard, but still).
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Paying 6 life for a free counter or UUU is better then force?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Quite a bit better in older formats. Force is a 2-for-1, life totals tend to matter less, and you have to play blue to have enough cards to pitch to it.
Play (verb): Cast/Play
RFG: Exile
CIP: Enters the Battlefield
Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
Yes, because the decks you want force against don't really care about life total until they already won. Force isn't all that good if your doing something fair.
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
Yea, maybe multi colored would work, or if you added in the discard effect like force. So it could be :sympu::sympu: as an additional cost discard a blue card, or :sympu::sympb: as an additional cost discard a blue or black card.
What decks would want to play this card in the "older formats"?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Reading the Rules FTW
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No way would it ever be mythic. Counters are extremely utility. The reason Trap was mythic was it was made for one thing in mind, storm combo. Anything past 6 life would make the card unplayable, plus it has no reason to be black at all.
Modern - Green & Taxes:symw::symg:
Standard - Illusions:symu::symb:
I collect Knowledge Pools!
Adding to the speculation, Aaron Forsythe said this: We also said things like, "It costs three-phi-phi" when the color was pretty unambiguous in context. it confirms a 3PP card at most.
The closest thing I see them printing is something like:
Phyrexian Counterspell UU
Instant
Counter target spell.
They said so themselves; Any hard counter they print nowadays will force you to pay at least UU. Now I'm not saying that I don't want it to happen. If they actually did print a potentially free counterspell, I would die of happiness. But lets be realistic.
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Why is it cause for concern unless you're a player with a set of Forces that you're worried about tanking? I think it's a great idea to solve some of the eternal format problems without having to actually reprint anything. The new card could easily be printed at rare and stuffed into multiple precons in rapid succession like Master of Etherium.
Now, as for the power level, 6 life is a considerably steep cost. Sure, it might not matter in eternal, but it keeps the power level easily in check for standard.
After they said that, they printed Pact of Negation, which is 100% free and clear if you never have another upkeep. They also printed Not of this World which is free if you satisfy its rediculous restriction. There are exceptions to every rule.
True, but Wizards dislikes combo decks and Extirpate only costs B, so its not that much of a difference. Plus creatures nowadays are really powerful so Canceller isn't that surprising.
Although, potentially paying 6 life for a free counterspell is no slight drawback either...
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
Fruit don't talk. Fruit just listen. And wait.
Pact of Negation forces you to pay 3UU, and Not of this World has a ridiculous restriction that's greater than needing two U. True hard counters will always require UU in one form or another.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
FI's point is, if the turn you win is the turn you play Pact of Negation, then it is effectively a completely free counter. And often times this winds up being the case.
Someting like 2:sympu::sympu: seems more reasonable.
So hypothesize a non-hardcounter.
StrictlyWorseYetStillWithinASanePerson'sPriceRangeFOW:
:sympu::sympu:
Instant
As an additional cost to play SWYSWASPPRFOW, exile a blue card from your hand.
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays :3mana:.
Okay, longshot. It isn't perfect. In fact, quite bad. Look at all the drawbacks! In response, Wizard's prints it at common so paper pauper derps like myself lose it.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
Phyrexian counter (instant)
UUCCC/ phyrexian mana for each mana symbol (I'm not sure how to use the mana symbol/phyrexian mana symbol app)
It would be an elegant throwback in that it would have the exact same mana cost as FoW, but would also have the possibility of being free. It also seems like something WotC would do to make absolutely sure it wouldn't break any formats, as paying half your life total (assuming 20 here) for a colorless hard counter with no other drawback seems reasonable (in the sense that it would barely be usable as only a 1-of).
Idk, that just seems like something Wizards would do as it is elegant and almost unabusable
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836
And totally unusable. Pay half your life: counter target spell?
Frenadol and Dobber are right. :2mana::sympu::sympu: seems most likely to me, if anything happens. Would it be a hard counter though, or...?
Why would it be totally unusable? I could see it as FoW #5 in legacy and possibly a one of in standard (or probably not at all in standard, but still).
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9733836#post9733836