everything about his flavor text, and the hesitation to explain who the lithomancer was, makes me think he was the third planeswalker that imprisoned the Eldrazi.
either he'll be the lithomancer and lost/gave up his spark the second time the 3 walkers visited zendikar, or he'll be a generic planeswalker who illustrates the perils of zendikar's natural defenses. I could easily see a future article where Beyer pulls a "Ob was a walker just like all of us, but he didn't pay enough attention etc etc not even a planeswalker was safe from Zendikar's mana!"
It makes less sense that he gave up his spark to make the hedrons, as if he was the guy who made the hedrons, i doubt he'd willingly give up his spark. Such an action would be either red or white in alignment, and white is probably getting gideon as a walker and red already had new chandra, so i doubt they'd make another walker of those colors. Of course, the block does seem like it's gonna have a walker of every color, as well as sarkhan, so who knows
We don't know where Ob fits, though i doubt he'll play a role in the upcomming novel. He's never been mentioned in any story capacity since he was printed.
A good legends lesson for all of us is Kamigawa Block. There were quite a few legends on cards that were never put in the story and there were legends that were in the story that were never cards.
I agree with Schizo he was probably just a good card that was meant to show the dangers of planeswalking to Zendikar.
I've seen theories that the lithomancer was Karn through some type of time travel wackiness. Maybe Wizards has plans for the character in a future block (like the one after scars) and they don't want to tell us much about him yet.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
I'm guessing that if he's not the Lithomancer that he's a no body.
I think Wotc just has a general rule that there have to be a few legends in every set for flavor and to toss EDH a bone.
It makes less sense that he gave up his spark to make the hedrons, as if he was the guy who made the hedrons, i doubt he'd willingly give up his spark. Such an action would be either red or white in alignment, and white is probably getting gideon as a walker and red already had new chandra, so i doubt they'd make another walker of those colors. Of course, the block does seem like it's gonna have a walker of every color, as well as sarkhan, so who knows
Reasons Why I think Ob Nixilis is the Lithomancer:
1. WotC's refusal to name the Planeswalker suggests that we already know him. We know Ob.
2. The flavor text on Ob says "His Spark Lost...". We know that the three planeswalkers each gave something up to trap the Eldrazi. Ob could have given up his spark.
3. He has landfall, which accounts for the mechanical flavor of a Lithomancer.
4. The card artwork depicts the land attached to Ob Nixilis, as if he's somehow connected with it, or shaping it at will.
5. He has a WWK-hedron-symbol-looking-thing on his forehead. This makes me think that he built them.
It's suggested in the above quote that giving up his spark would be the action of a red/white alignment, but if Ob Nixilis gave up his spark thousands of years ago, who knows how insane (black) he could have been driven.
As for the idea that some legends are just legends, sure... but I don't think that's the case with this guy.
I'd like to introduce you to someone. His name is Wall of Omens. Say hi, Wall of Omens!
So, Wall of Omens, how do you think you're going to affect standard? What's that, you say? You're going to slot right into an already-established UW Control archetype, and improve the deck's matchup against Jund significantly? Wow, bold words there Wall of Omens.
5. He has a WWK-hedron-symbol-looking-thing on his forehead. This makes me think that he built them.
holy crap. when i read this, i instantly thought of a flavor article i read earlier this week.
Quote from Doug Beyer »
The Prison Plane- The three planeswalkers went to work to trap the Eldrazi monstrosities Emrakul, Ulamog, and Kozilek on Zendikar. Sorin Markov directed the Eldrazi's appetite toward the plane, luring them in with the promise of feeding on Zendikar's delectable energy. The invisible breath of the spirit dragon Ugin blunted the Eldrazi creatures' counterattacks, and he used special colorless magic to bind them to the world. The lithomancer constructed a massive network of stone diamonds called hedrons, whose power would form the bars of a planewide prison, forever preventing the Eldrazi from leaving.
the lithomancer did indeed create the hedrons. you could very well be on to something here.
if anyone else wants to read the whole article, it's HERE
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total casual player, I love being able to swing in with a Stonehewer Giant equipped with a Sword of Vengeance, Sword of Light/Shadow, Lightning Greaves, and Argentum Armor. That's not gonna happen anywhere but casual play.
Decks (all casual at this point) GW(R) Equipment GBW Treefolk U Sanity Grinding U 16 Lord Merfolk R burn, devastating summons/goblin bushwhacker W Light From Within G Wolves
it also could be a related story in on itself, that he lost his spark with the mending, since it did completely change the nature of the spark itself. he could have just "planeswalked" to Zendikar, when the mending forced a "Inter-planar shockwave" which took or changed his spark, then the roil did something as well..
we have zero evidence, other than what was printed on his card that he was a powerful planeswalker, and we have no idea how/what happened to cause him to lose his spark.
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
we have zero evidence, other than what was printed on his card that he was a powerful planeswalker, and we have no idea how/what happened to cause him to lose his spark.
On the contrary, we have some evidence, and since this is a speculation thread I think it's a fair jump of logic.
-there were three planeswalkers that trapped the eldrazi. two were revealed, and one has mysteriously been hinted at but not named.
-each planeswalker gave something up.
-ob nixilis was a planeswalker that lost his spark.
-there is a strange hedron symbol on his head.
-he does have landfall and art that suggests weird shaping/morphing with the land. lithomancer? maybe.
As for him not being in RoE, I wouldn't expect him to be, but I bet he's revealed as the Lithomancer down the road.
On the contrary, we have some evidence, and since this is a speculation thread I think it's a fair jump of logic.
-there were three planeswalkers that trapped the eldrazi. two were revealed, and one has mysteriously been hinted at but not named.
-each planeswalker gave something up.
-ob nixilis was a planeswalker that lost his spark.
-there is a strange hedron symbol on his head.
-he does have landfall and art that suggests weird shaping/morphing with the land. lithomancer? maybe.
As for him not being in RoE, I wouldn't expect him to be, but I bet he's revealed as the Lithomancer down the road.
So maybe then...
Ob gave up his Spark.
Sorin gave up his humanity.
And Ugin gave his life?
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Strictly, Precisely; exactly, restricted to something. When you're not an English major, don't pretend that you are.
On the contrary, we have some evidence, and since this is a speculation thread I think it's a fair jump of logic.
It's a fair jump to say he was a planeswalker who lost his spark while on Zendikar
-there were three planeswalkers that trapped the eldrazi. two were revealed, and one has mysteriously been hinted at but not named. True, but this could mean anything and doesn't indicate Ob any more than it indicates anyone
-each planeswalker gave something up. What? When was this said?
-ob nixilis was a planeswalker that lost his spark. True, but again, this doesn't indicate anything beyond itself. Zendikar's wild nature has claimed many planeswalkers. It could be that Ob's powerful demonic nature spared his life where others had simply been killed
-there is a strange hedron symbol on his head. Yes. But, again, that could mean anything. It could be that during the Eldrazi's previous near-escape, Ob was branded/enslaved by the Eldrazi. Who knows. It indicates a connection to the world, at best.
-he does have landfall and art that suggests weird shaping/morphing with the land. lithomancer? maybe. Maybe not
There's nothing to say that Ob isn't the much-lauded lithomancer (though I can't really picture a Demon as a stone-shaping mage - remember that demons are the embodiments of things like sin, greed, hatred, pain, fear, pride, etc. Nothing that supports a master stone-shaper), but nothing convinces me of it, either.
My personal stance until we're given reason otherwise has been that the lithomancer wasn't named for the same reason Elspeth's home plane wasn't named - it's not important now and they want to keep options open. And Ob is exactly what the simplest explanation is, a planeswalker who lost his spark as a result of Zendikar's wild, powerful nature. The two needn't be connected.
Remember that he might not have been a Demon during the time before he lost his spark. He might have been corrupted since then, turning him into the Demon he is now.
Have we ever had an instance of a character being transformed into a demon? And why make this theory (which requires a few stretches as it is) anymore complicated?
I'm guessing that if he's not the Lithomancer that he's a no body.
I think Wotc just has a general rule that there have to be a few legends in every set for flavor and to toss EDH a bone.
Thada Adel = Big-ass Bone IMO
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Standard: Mono Black Devotion
Legacy: Burn, U/R Delver
Modern: U/R Storm, Soul Sisters
Vintage: #ImBrokeLOL
EDH: Nin, the Pain Artist (Chaos), Roon of the Hidden Realm (Blink)
what i consider the strongest argument AGAINST ob being walker #3 is that he would have been the lithomancer and hence the builder of the hedrons. I find it very doubtful that he'd willingly give up his spark to do so. I doubt he was tricked, as they later returned to strengthen the cage. The fact that they left and then returned means he couldn't have given up his spark.
The point about color was meant to be a number crunch. I think it's fair to say that self sacrifice is a red or white mechanic, as there is no foreseeable personal profit (making it unlikely that it was a black-aligned decision). There have already been planeswalkers of those two colors in the zendikar block. I'm not positive that this can be used, however, as by making ugin colorless, it seems that WotC is not making the sealing of the Eldrazi a multilateral decision by WUBRG planeswalkers, but rather the actions of a colorless dragon, a black vampire, and a unknown lithomancer.
Where does it say that each walker gave something up to seal the Eldrazi? Ugin obviously got the worse end of the deal if he gave up his life. Spark < Life
Where does it say that each walker gave something up to seal the Eldrazi? Ugin obviously got the worse end of the deal if he gave up his life. Spark < Life
On the contrary. Have you ever read the book series The Wheel of Time by a Mr. Robert Jordan? In it, the "mages" of the world frequently mention that to lose their ability to "channel" (access and utilize magic) would be a fate worse than death. It's quite possible that a planeswalker would view the loss of their spark in a similar fashion.
It's a fair jump to say he was a planeswalker who lost his spark while on Zendikar
I read somewhere on this forum (or perhaps it was on mtg.com) about the three planeswalkers each sacrificing something to seal the Eldrazi. Can anyone confirm/refute this?
Sure, it's a speculation thread so any of these ideas could be hooey, but I don't believe that WotC would play coy with the identity of the third Planeswalker, while providing us with a legendary creature on Zendikar that once was a Planeswalker (and happens to have a hedron on his forehead).
As for our possible Lithomancer strangely being a demon... he could have once been divine and fallen into corruption... he could have sealed a pact for the power to stop the Eldrazi... he could have been driven to monstrosity over the millenia... that we don't know. Heck, he might have been a demon that just didn't want to see his world eaten by the Eldrazi. "This is my world to bully... not your's!", etc...
I'm only going on what information is available, and the clues on the Ob Nixilis artwork/mechanics/flavor text are compelling.
On the contrary. Have you ever read the book series The Wheel of Time by a Mr. Robert Jordan? In it, the "mages" of the world frequently mention that to lose their ability to "channel" (access and utilize magic) would be a fate worse than death. It's quite possible that a planeswalker would view the loss of their spark in a similar fashion.
in that case, we can still say the sacrifices would have been uneven, and thus its doubtful that's the reason.
Have we ever had an instance of a character being transformed into a demon? And why make this theory (which requires a few stretches as it is) anymore complicated?
We know him as "Ob Nixilis, The Fallen" which suggests that he wasn't always a demon.
Have we ever had an instance of a character being transformed into a demon? And why make this theory (which requires a few stretches as it is) anymore complicated?
Why yes we do actually, though not remotely in this manner.
Every member of the Phyrexian inner circle.
I think it's possible he wasn't always a demon, even if there isn't a precedent.
However, I DON'T think he's the Lithomancer.
To all speculating about the sacrifice issue, I can clarify that right now.
THIS IS A FALSE RUMOR.
It was propogated by two factors which had nothing to do with each other.
1) The Eye of Ugin was called The Eye of Ugin. Leading many gullible people to believe it was his ACTUAL eye that he gave up.
2) Sorin wiped their memories of the Eye's location so that they couldn't return to undo what they had done. This was a spell cast, but several posters thought it meant that he gave up his memory as a sacrificial part of the spell. This is not the case. Source: Teeth of Akoum, chapter 1.
Sure, stuff like Snapping Drake and Goblin Piker are for limited. But Null isn't even playable against a 5 year old whose hand consists of a 6 of Clubs, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Chimney Imp, and a very large cumquat.
Why yes we do actually, though not remotely in this manner.
Every member of the Phyrexian inner circle.
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that Phyrexia's demons, particularly those of the inner circle, weren't quite demons as they're conceptualized now but rather biomechanical horrors. And that the transformation process was more genetic mutation and mechanical enhancements than magical transmutation or corruption.
I mean, it's kind of the same, but I don't think they're really equal. It's like theorizing that a character was transformed into a centaur and someone saying it's possible because in an old story a guy had horse legs sewn onto him.
[Standard]
WBUUG Rhox, The Punisher GUUBW
WUBBGGRRMana Ramp Timmy Walkers RRGGBBUW
[EDH]
Five Colors Cheap stuff (in construction)
It makes less sense that he gave up his spark to make the hedrons, as if he was the guy who made the hedrons, i doubt he'd willingly give up his spark. Such an action would be either red or white in alignment, and white is probably getting gideon as a walker and red already had new chandra, so i doubt they'd make another walker of those colors. Of course, the block does seem like it's gonna have a walker of every color, as well as sarkhan, so who knows
I agree with Schizo he was probably just a good card that was meant to show the dangers of planeswalking to Zendikar.
I've seen theories that the lithomancer was Karn through some type of time travel wackiness. Maybe Wizards has plans for the character in a future block (like the one after scars) and they don't want to tell us much about him yet.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
I think Wotc just has a general rule that there have to be a few legends in every set for flavor and to toss EDH a bone.
Reasons Why I think Ob Nixilis is the Lithomancer:
1. WotC's refusal to name the Planeswalker suggests that we already know him. We know Ob.
2. The flavor text on Ob says "His Spark Lost...". We know that the three planeswalkers each gave something up to trap the Eldrazi. Ob could have given up his spark.
3. He has landfall, which accounts for the mechanical flavor of a Lithomancer.
4. The card artwork depicts the land attached to Ob Nixilis, as if he's somehow connected with it, or shaping it at will.
5. He has a WWK-hedron-symbol-looking-thing on his forehead. This makes me think that he built them.
It's suggested in the above quote that giving up his spark would be the action of a red/white alignment, but if Ob Nixilis gave up his spark thousands of years ago, who knows how insane (black) he could have been driven.
As for the idea that some legends are just legends, sure... but I don't think that's the case with this guy.
holy crap. when i read this, i instantly thought of a flavor article i read earlier this week.
the lithomancer did indeed create the hedrons. you could very well be on to something here.
if anyone else wants to read the whole article, it's HERE
Decks (all casual at this point)
GW(R) Equipment
GBW Treefolk
U Sanity Grinding
U 16 Lord Merfolk
R burn, devastating summons/goblin bushwhacker
W Light From Within
G Wolves
we have zero evidence, other than what was printed on his card that he was a powerful planeswalker, and we have no idea how/what happened to cause him to lose his spark.
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
On the contrary, we have some evidence, and since this is a speculation thread I think it's a fair jump of logic.
-there were three planeswalkers that trapped the eldrazi. two were revealed, and one has mysteriously been hinted at but not named.
-each planeswalker gave something up.
-ob nixilis was a planeswalker that lost his spark.
-there is a strange hedron symbol on his head.
-he does have landfall and art that suggests weird shaping/morphing with the land. lithomancer? maybe.
As for him not being in RoE, I wouldn't expect him to be, but I bet he's revealed as the Lithomancer down the road.
So maybe then...
Ob gave up his Spark.
Sorin gave up his humanity.
And Ugin gave his life?
It's a fair jump to say he was a planeswalker who lost his spark while on Zendikar
There's nothing to say that Ob isn't the much-lauded lithomancer (though I can't really picture a Demon as a stone-shaping mage - remember that demons are the embodiments of things like sin, greed, hatred, pain, fear, pride, etc. Nothing that supports a master stone-shaper), but nothing convinces me of it, either.
My personal stance until we're given reason otherwise has been that the lithomancer wasn't named for the same reason Elspeth's home plane wasn't named - it's not important now and they want to keep options open. And Ob is exactly what the simplest explanation is, a planeswalker who lost his spark as a result of Zendikar's wild, powerful nature. The two needn't be connected.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Have we ever had an instance of a character being transformed into a demon? And why make this theory (which requires a few stretches as it is) anymore complicated?
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Thada Adel = Big-ass Bone IMO
Legacy: Burn, U/R Delver
Modern: U/R Storm, Soul Sisters
Vintage: #ImBrokeLOL
EDH: Nin, the Pain Artist (Chaos), Roon of the Hidden Realm (Blink)
what i consider the strongest argument AGAINST ob being walker #3 is that he would have been the lithomancer and hence the builder of the hedrons. I find it very doubtful that he'd willingly give up his spark to do so. I doubt he was tricked, as they later returned to strengthen the cage. The fact that they left and then returned means he couldn't have given up his spark.
The point about color was meant to be a number crunch. I think it's fair to say that self sacrifice is a red or white mechanic, as there is no foreseeable personal profit (making it unlikely that it was a black-aligned decision). There have already been planeswalkers of those two colors in the zendikar block. I'm not positive that this can be used, however, as by making ugin colorless, it seems that WotC is not making the sealing of the Eldrazi a multilateral decision by WUBRG planeswalkers, but rather the actions of a colorless dragon, a black vampire, and a unknown lithomancer.
Where does it say that each walker gave something up to seal the Eldrazi? Ugin obviously got the worse end of the deal if he gave up his life. Spark < Life
On the contrary. Have you ever read the book series The Wheel of Time by a Mr. Robert Jordan? In it, the "mages" of the world frequently mention that to lose their ability to "channel" (access and utilize magic) would be a fate worse than death. It's quite possible that a planeswalker would view the loss of their spark in a similar fashion.
I read somewhere on this forum (or perhaps it was on mtg.com) about the three planeswalkers each sacrificing something to seal the Eldrazi. Can anyone confirm/refute this?
Sure, it's a speculation thread so any of these ideas could be hooey, but I don't believe that WotC would play coy with the identity of the third Planeswalker, while providing us with a legendary creature on Zendikar that once was a Planeswalker (and happens to have a hedron on his forehead).
As for our possible Lithomancer strangely being a demon... he could have once been divine and fallen into corruption... he could have sealed a pact for the power to stop the Eldrazi... he could have been driven to monstrosity over the millenia... that we don't know. Heck, he might have been a demon that just didn't want to see his world eaten by the Eldrazi. "This is my world to bully... not your's!", etc...
I'm only going on what information is available, and the clues on the Ob Nixilis artwork/mechanics/flavor text are compelling.
Appreantly maybe not....
RWW Eldrazi Goggles
in that case, we can still say the sacrifices would have been uneven, and thus its doubtful that's the reason.
We know him as "Ob Nixilis, The Fallen" which suggests that he wasn't always a demon.
Why yes we do actually, though not remotely in this manner.
Every member of the Phyrexian inner circle.
I think it's possible he wasn't always a demon, even if there isn't a precedent.
However, I DON'T think he's the Lithomancer.
To all speculating about the sacrifice issue, I can clarify that right now.
THIS IS A FALSE RUMOR.
It was propogated by two factors which had nothing to do with each other.
1) The Eye of Ugin was called The Eye of Ugin. Leading many gullible people to believe it was his ACTUAL eye that he gave up.
2) Sorin wiped their memories of the Eye's location so that they couldn't return to undo what they had done. This was a spell cast, but several posters thought it meant that he gave up his memory as a sacrificial part of the spell. This is not the case. Source: Teeth of Akoum, chapter 1.
not really, it just suggests that he used to be a Planeswalker.
At this point, I'm just going to say I think it is unlikely, but possible.
No.
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that Phyrexia's demons, particularly those of the inner circle, weren't quite demons as they're conceptualized now but rather biomechanical horrors. And that the transformation process was more genetic mutation and mechanical enhancements than magical transmutation or corruption.
I mean, it's kind of the same, but I don't think they're really equal. It's like theorizing that a character was transformed into a centaur and someone saying it's possible because in an old story a guy had horse legs sewn onto him.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains