After seeing users do exactly what the mods told them not to do over and over I have decided to make a thread dedicated to speculation on this topic:
Will there be any form of land in Alara Reborn?
Here's the basis of the NO side:
1. The whole its "100% multicolored" advertisement Wizards sent out clearly states that there wont be lands, as land are not multicolored
2. Legions set a precedent by not having lands, why can't Reborn do the same?
3. Colored lands would be broken
Here's the basis of the YES side:
1. The advertisement is just for hype, and the marketing team doesn't understand the difference between gold and multicolored
2. Some consider lands such as Jungle Shrine to be gold because it has a gold text border
3. Wizards could find a way to make colored lands work
4. The set needs more fixing/lands
Edit: I thought of another YES argument: It would be strange for the "goldest" block of all time not to have a set of powerful,manafixing, rare lands
Edit2: Poll added, thanks for the idea White Magus
Discuss
(personally I would love to have more lands, but don't think its gonna happen)
You may want to add a Poll to this. That way we get a better idea of how people feel.
As for the question... I am going to say now. WE DO NOT need more fixing! I have NEVER seen so much fixing in my life. Why do we need more? The only bit of fixing I can see would be for limited... but even than it looks like there will be new obelisks to cover that.
If people think we need more mana fixing than they need to take a good hard look as to just how much there is out there already:
Vivid Lands Reflecting Pool
Filter Lands
Tribal Lands
Obelisks
CITP Tapped Tri Lands
Pain Lands
and that's just off the top of my head... and I KNOW i'm missing a couple. Why in God's name do we need more?
I think point #2 on the 'Yes side' is an invalid argument, as regardless of how "gold" you think Jungle Shrine is, it is not multicolored, and ARB is 100% multicolored.
After seeing the Borderposts, I'm confident that we won't be seeing lands, and the Borderposts (along with Basic Landcycling) will serve as the additional fixing this set "needs."
Sure, stuff like Snapping Drake and Goblin Piker are for limited. But Null isn't even playable against a 5 year old whose hand consists of a 6 of Clubs, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Chimney Imp, and a very large cumquat.
You may want to add a Poll to this. That way we get a better idea of how people feel.
As for the question... I am going to say now. WE DO NOT need more fixing! I have NEVER seen so much fixing in my life. Why do we need more? The only bit of fixing I can see would be for limited... but even than it looks like there will be new obelisks to cover that.
I would but I'm new and dunno how:frown:
and for the fixing, I'm mostly referring to block, limited and post rotation
Since lands are colorless permanents with no mana cost there will be no lands in Alara Reborn.
Lands do not have mana cost = Lands are colorless permanents = Lands cannot be gold.
They could just add "This permanent is Green and Red." sort of like they added "Ghostfire is colorless" to Ghostfire. However the idea of colored lands seriously breaks some cards that count color.
If you were a Wizards marketing member who knows little about Magic would you know what exactly "multicolored" and "gold" mean?
I could see an ignorant marketing person thinking "oh this card has a gold text boarder and it has all these different colored symbols on it, so it must be multicolored, just like Fusion Elemental"
While I feel this is highly improbable, I don't think its out of the realm of plausibility
(note: I officially do not think Reborn will have lands,just gotta get all viewpoints out there)
I'de say no lands are needed. Block: panoramas, tri-lands, basicland-cycling, rupture spire, unstable frontier, ancient ziggurat. Exploding borders, and grixis illusionist fit here too. Limited: maybe stick to a 2 color deck and do your land ratio properly/mulligan (2 color does seem to be looking like it has a good chance of being the majority or ARB cards) and those borderposts look like they shall be the fixing people want (more land-cycling options would be sweet though(looking at you traumatic visions :banghead:)). Post-Rotation: I'm sure M10 will have land fetchers in green and the new duals will replace the old. Then I doubt WotC will make a block that has no fixers when it will be rotating out the mass amount from lor/sha. Moral being lands in ARB purely to aid fixing is extremely doubtful, and almost all the other reasons need 3 more hours in the oven before I'de even consider them near good enough to make lands multi-colored(with the exception being the human stupidity reason).
If you were a Wizards marketing member who knows little about Magic would you know what exactly "multicolored" and "gold" mean?
I could see an ignorant marketing person thinking "oh this card has a gold text boarder and it has all these different colored symbols on it, so it must be multicolored, just like Fusion Elemental"
While I feel this is highly improbable, I don't think its out of the realm of plausibility
(note: I officially do not think Reborn will have lands,just gotta get all viewpoints out there)
It's possible, but I'd like to think they'd have the sense to have someone who knows the game proofread the statement.
Sure, stuff like Snapping Drake and Goblin Piker are for limited. But Null isn't even playable against a 5 year old whose hand consists of a 6 of Clubs, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Chimney Imp, and a very large cumquat.
Alara Reborn is solid gold! Multicolored or ‘gold’ cards are among the most popular set themes, and every single card in Alara Reborn is gold. It will be the first set in the history of Magic: The Gathering to be 100% multicolored.
Unfortunately they made a point of saying what they meant by 'gold', then followed up the bold with 100% multicolored. If i were to guess, i'd say that wizards wouldn't leave that kind of wording up to a marketing team that doesn't know exactly what they are marketing. Though it would be a bit odd that this is the first set since Fifth Dawn to not have a land in it.
You may want to add a Poll to this. That way we get a better idea of how people feel.
I hate you.
Seems pretty clear cut, though. We've got the thing categorically saying that every card is gold, twice! The preview card left colourless cards open, but this doesn't. Coloured land is a remote possibility, but nothing we can bank on, and I really don't buy that the marketting team would say this in such a way when they didn't understand it. In any case, the arguments for "YES" are actually arguments for "MAYBE". Even if they are valid, it's quite possible, nay probable, that they didn't print any lands anyway.
and for the fixing, I'm mostly referring to block, limited and post rotation
Block plays 5cc off of trilands. Every other deck is at least 3c just from the trilands.
Basiccycling more than takes care of limited.
We don't need super fixing shoving the shards theme down our throat post-rotation because the next block will be out, and it's own themes deserves the limelight. But they could always print some decent duals there anyway if they thought that was important.
Nor do we need cards to match the reflecting+vivid combo ever. They have in fact spoiled shard's theme somewhat by making 5cc too easy, crowding out various tricolor decks, as Maro/Forscythe admitted. (Not that lorwyn aggro would allow too many anyway.)
Honestly, I think while I am not in the "lands are gold" camp... I could see them doing something new with design and coming up with an uncommon crappy dual land that "counts as a ______ and _____ permanent." Not great, but they've never done it. Not to mention White would suddenly have some killer LD in Celestial Purge!
If you were a Wizards marketing member who knows little about Magic would you know what exactly "multicolored" and "gold" mean?
If I were in Wizards marketing and I didn't know much about Magic, then I would expect to be looking for a new job, especially if I ever put out an advertisement that confused such basic facts about the game. Granted, not everyone at Wizards knows about every game they produce, but the people who are developing marketing materials about Magic are certainly well-versed about what they do, otherwise they would not be doing it. In the past, we have had some poorly-worded adverts (Mirrodin materials claimed it would be introducing a new card type, I believe, referring to Equipment, which was a new subtype, not type; "striking creatures") but those past mistakes have led to a more careful approach.
I can't believe this debate will not die. The only other time there has been such a contentious argument that I can remember was the Time Spiral Timeshifted Sheet, a case in which Wizards later admitted to having tried to obfuscate the truth. This time, we have a mailing that tells us in no uncertain terms that the set is "solid gold" and "100% multicolor", and yet a small, but vocal and unwavering minority, refuses to believe what it is being told.
I suppose, having seen the unending debates in the "real" world over evolution, Obama's birth certificate and such, I should not be surprised, but I am quick to forget that rumor/speculation/wild, baseless absurdity season brings out scads of newcomers to drown out the veterans (I don't post much; I prefer not to unless I've got something meaningful to add, but I read the boards daily) who have been through this sort of thing time and again.
I believe people are taking the "100% multicolor" thing too strictly.
They could easily mean that all the spells (creatures, instants, sorceries, enchantements), are 100% multicolor.
That's not 100% multicolor. If there are, for example, 5 lands in ARB, then it's not 100% multicolor - it's 96.6% multicolor. And that's just not a sexy number.
I'm surprised that this argument has gone on so long. It seems pretty certain that there are NO land in Alara Reborn. It is not the first time they've done this, so it's not a big surprise. Besides, as it's been said, there is TONS of mana fixing in block and constructed already. I love gold and think this set will be awesome, but it is time to give multi-colored a rest for a while.
Seriously though... I don't think we're being to strict. When they said legions was 100% creatures... well Legions was 100% creatures. Why would that same standard change now?
Like I said. I believe people are being too strict. They could easily mean that 100% of the spells are multicolor.
No, they couldn't. They don't mention "spells" once, the mention "every single card" and "100% of the set". It's not ambiguous, not matter how much you'd like it to be.
I'm glad there weren't any extremely broken/rare lands in Shards of Alara block. If Alara Reborn is 100% gold, I'm completely fine with this. After all, I don't want to shell out 150+ bucks just for a decent mana base. I'd rather buy the new duals from M10 that should be good enough to warrant use.
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Phylactery Lich will forever be known, to me at least, as Pimpin' Lich. Get up on it, suckas.
Here's the basis of the YES side:
1. The advertisement is just for hype, and the marketing team doesn't understand the difference between gold and multicolored 2. Some consider lands such as Jungle Shrine to be gold because it has a gold text border
3. Wizards could find a way to make colored lands work
4. The set needs more fixing/lands
Edit: I thought of another YES argument: It would be strange for the "goldest" block of all time not to have a set of powerful,manafixing, rare lands
Edit2: Poll added, thanks for the idea White Magus
Discuss
(personally I would love to have more lands, but don't think its gonna happen)
The reason in bold is probably one of the worst thought out of the reasons by the people that think there will be multicolored lands in ARB. Saying that they consider a land like jungle shrine gold because it has a gold text border means that they must also consider a mountain red, island blue, etc. because they have the corresponding colored text border as well and we all know that those lands are colorless.
Will there be any form of land in Alara Reborn?
Here's the basis of the NO side:
1. The whole its "100% multicolored" advertisement Wizards sent out clearly states that there wont be lands, as land are not multicolored
2. Legions set a precedent by not having lands, why can't Reborn do the same?
3. Colored lands would be broken
Here's the basis of the YES side:
1. The advertisement is just for hype, and the marketing team doesn't understand the difference between gold and multicolored
2. Some consider lands such as Jungle Shrine to be gold because it has a gold text border
3. Wizards could find a way to make colored lands work
4. The set needs more fixing/lands
Edit: I thought of another YES argument: It would be strange for the "goldest" block of all time not to have a set of powerful,manafixing, rare lands
Edit2: Poll added, thanks for the idea White Magus
Discuss
(personally I would love to have more lands, but don't think its gonna happen)
As for the question... I am going to say now. WE DO NOT need more fixing! I have NEVER seen so much fixing in my life. Why do we need more? The only bit of fixing I can see would be for limited... but even than it looks like there will be new obelisks to cover that.
If people think we need more mana fixing than they need to take a good hard look as to just how much there is out there already:
Vivid Lands
Reflecting Pool
Filter Lands
Tribal Lands
Obelisks
CITP Tapped Tri Lands
Pain Lands
and that's just off the top of my head... and I KNOW i'm missing a couple. Why in God's name do we need more?
Edit: Look at it this way... if you wanted to run a BG deck you could have Llanowar wastes, Gilt-leaf Palace, Twilight Mire, and Savage Lands. That's JUST lands! What more do people want?
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
After seeing the Borderposts, I'm confident that we won't be seeing lands, and the Borderposts (along with Basic Landcycling) will serve as the additional fixing this set "needs."
I would but I'm new and dunno how:frown:
and for the fixing, I'm mostly referring to block, limited and post rotation
Lands do not have mana cost = Lands are colorless permanents = Lands cannot be gold.
They could just add "This permanent is Green and Red." sort of like they added "Ghostfire is colorless" to Ghostfire. However the idea of colored lands seriously breaks some cards that count color.
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
If you were a Wizards marketing member who knows little about Magic would you know what exactly "multicolored" and "gold" mean?
I could see an ignorant marketing person thinking "oh this card has a gold text boarder and it has all these different colored symbols on it, so it must be multicolored, just like Fusion Elemental"
While I feel this is highly improbable, I don't think its out of the realm of plausibility
(note: I officially do not think Reborn will have lands,just gotta get all viewpoints out there)
It's possible, but I'd like to think they'd have the sense to have someone who knows the game proofread the statement.
Unfortunately they made a point of saying what they meant by 'gold', then followed up the bold with 100% multicolored. If i were to guess, i'd say that wizards wouldn't leave that kind of wording up to a marketing team that doesn't know exactly what they are marketing. Though it would be a bit odd that this is the first set since Fifth Dawn to not have a land in it.
I hate you.
Seems pretty clear cut, though. We've got the thing categorically saying that every card is gold, twice! The preview card left colourless cards open, but this doesn't. Coloured land is a remote possibility, but nothing we can bank on, and I really don't buy that the marketting team would say this in such a way when they didn't understand it. In any case, the arguments for "YES" are actually arguments for "MAYBE". Even if they are valid, it's quite possible, nay probable, that they didn't print any lands anyway.
Block plays 5cc off of trilands. Every other deck is at least 3c just from the trilands.
Basiccycling more than takes care of limited.
We don't need super fixing shoving the shards theme down our throat post-rotation because the next block will be out, and it's own themes deserves the limelight. But they could always print some decent duals there anyway if they thought that was important.
Nor do we need cards to match the reflecting+vivid combo ever. They have in fact spoiled shard's theme somewhat by making 5cc too easy, crowding out various tricolor decks, as Maro/Forscythe admitted. (Not that lorwyn aggro would allow too many anyway.)
If I were in Wizards marketing and I didn't know much about Magic, then I would expect to be looking for a new job, especially if I ever put out an advertisement that confused such basic facts about the game. Granted, not everyone at Wizards knows about every game they produce, but the people who are developing marketing materials about Magic are certainly well-versed about what they do, otherwise they would not be doing it. In the past, we have had some poorly-worded adverts (Mirrodin materials claimed it would be introducing a new card type, I believe, referring to Equipment, which was a new subtype, not type; "striking creatures") but those past mistakes have led to a more careful approach.
I can't believe this debate will not die. The only other time there has been such a contentious argument that I can remember was the Time Spiral Timeshifted Sheet, a case in which Wizards later admitted to having tried to obfuscate the truth. This time, we have a mailing that tells us in no uncertain terms that the set is "solid gold" and "100% multicolor", and yet a small, but vocal and unwavering minority, refuses to believe what it is being told.
I suppose, having seen the unending debates in the "real" world over evolution, Obama's birth certificate and such, I should not be surprised, but I am quick to forget that rumor/speculation/wild, baseless absurdity season brings out scads of newcomers to drown out the veterans (I don't post much; I prefer not to unless I've got something meaningful to add, but I read the boards daily) who have been through this sort of thing time and again.
They could easily mean that all the spells (creatures, instants, sorceries, enchantements), are 100% multicolor.
That's not 100% multicolor. If there are, for example, 5 lands in ARB, then it's not 100% multicolor - it's 96.6% multicolor. And that's just not a sexy number.
I'm not saying they will have lands; I'm simply saying that it's possible.
Learn what "every single card is gold" means.
Awwww... why? I loooooooooooove you!
Seriously though... I don't think we're being to strict. When they said legions was 100% creatures... well Legions was 100% creatures. Why would that same standard change now?
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
No, they couldn't. They don't mention "spells" once, the mention "every single card" and "100% of the set". It's not ambiguous, not matter how much you'd like it to be.
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BRO FIST - if you don't sig this you are not a bro.
The reason in bold is probably one of the worst thought out of the reasons by the people that think there will be multicolored lands in ARB. Saying that they consider a land like jungle shrine gold because it has a gold text border means that they must also consider a mountain red, island blue, etc. because they have the corresponding colored text border as well and we all know that those lands are colorless.
And hence abilities that made them those two colors.
I think that's silly.