green Choke Spreading Algae - Are you kidding me? What in the.....why did this even happen?
I don't really have a problem with the red ones or Karma, but the rest of it is what I hope, well pray, WotC has planned to change up somehow or another for Ninth.
Then again, knowing our luck, we'll lose Karma and get Stern Judge back. The red ones will probably become Curse of Marit Lage and Anarchy (actually, that may not be too bad).
Urgh, personally I hate the color specific hosing-cards. This day in age they're super cheap. Yet somehow they don't see tourney play in sideboards. Of course the decks in standard use a nice amount of artifacts or non-basic lands, so i guess right they aren't too much of a hassle. But if there's anything I don't allow to be played with in my casual group, it's definitly those sorts of cards. May they burn.
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For Red, I'd include Blood Moon as a color hoser, in that it hoses non-red decks. Sure, it doesn't hose any specific color, but turning lands into mountains won't affect other Red decks, so it's clearly color biased.
Speaking of hosers, has anyone noticed there are very few hosers in Kamigawa, if any? I can't seem to think of any at this moment.
there's no colour hosers in kamigawa so far but there are deck type hosers. ishi ishi goblin crackshot for spirit arcane, night of souls betrayal for weenie, reduce to dreams for shrines and kitsune riftwalker also for spirit arcane.
personally if i were working on 9th i'd bring back all the high powered colour hosers:
that way all the colours would have even strength hosers against each other, as opposed to the current system where the only colour which wins out with its hosers is red.
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned any artifact hosers. Extended rotates and most of the good, mass stuff (exept deed) say "goodbye". Shatterstorm seems a good reprint as well as meldown. Unfortunately, energy flux seems too complicated to put it in a core set.
I don't think anyone's mentioned artifact hosers, because I think the topic the thread starter seemed to want to encourage discussion is that of what color specific hosers we think will be in 9th. I bet everyone was thinking about artifact hosers when they were making their posts.
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We need some of them in ninth too, but I thought a thread was already up on that on the forums. I thought somebody had already gotten to it, especially since it is foreseeable that Affinity could run over Extended like it did Standard. It would be nice to at least get Energy Flux. We probably won't get anything.
I kind of hope that they bring back Stench of Evil with some better art instead of Gloom, mainly because White has lots of ways around enchantments even if Gloom is in play.
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We need some of them in ninth too, but I thought a thread was already up on that on the forums. I thought somebody had already gotten to it, especially since it is foreseeable that Affinity could run over Extended like it did Standard. It would be nice to at least get Energy Flux. We probably won't get anything.
I kind of hope that they bring back Stench of Evil with some better art instead of Gloom, mainly because White has lots of ways around enchantments even if Gloom is in play.
Stench of evil isn't coming back becuase Black doesn't to LD anymore. So the only thing to pray for is Flashfires again.
And Engery Flux would have to get a downgrade before thay would print it. Maybe if it affect only up to 3 target artifacts.
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Stench of evil isn't coming back becuase Black doesn't to LD anymore. So the only thing to pray for is Flashfires again. And Engery Flux would have to get a downgrade before thay would print it. Maybe if it affect only up to 3 target artifacts.
Black doesn't do LD anymore...so...they reprinted Befoul because...
They can't change cards for Core sets, and there's no reason to tone down Energy Flux. If it was toned down, it wouldn't be a hoser.
As far as artifact hosers go, I think Shatterstorm is the best bet. It's the simplest artifact hoser there is, and it will be plenty effective at hosing Affinity after Disciple gets banned (hint hint).
black still does land D, it's just not a major theme of black anymore. it's exactly like white still does artifact D, it's just not a major theme anymore(like it used to be with disenchant, seal of cleansing, aura of silence etc.).
as for artifact hosers in 9th i think that both shatterstorm and aura flux are easily possible reprints(although aura flux would probably become rare). 1 other thing is that oxidize will most likely be reprinted in 9th, its nice and simple, fits the colour wheel and more importantly was recently made into a textless card and all the textless cards will most likely become core set cards if they aren't allready.
I don't see Gloom, Perish and/or Convert coming back. they are extremely powerful as uncommons except maybe for gloom (remember, each color gets two hosers for its enemy colors at uncommons in the base set).
I would like the hosers to be those:
Red: flashfires/boil (in 8e these two were just fine)
Green: compost/choke (spreading algae was never an option)
Blue: chill/hibernation (if red has something as boil, chill is just fair for blue)
White: Karma/Warmth (Warmth would put white's hoser for red in the same level of flashfires)
Black: Bereavement/Yawgmoth's Edict (the 7e hosers are fine for me, not very powerful nor weak)
*White: Karma and Absolute Law (and Silver & White Knight)
Justice- Crazily too good. Red scoops if you have more life then them.
Conversion- Upkeep cost seems complicated for some reason.
Sphere of Law- This card is so amazingly good. If it resolves most Red decks scoop.
White has hosers like none other. The only problem is a card worse than Karma but better than everything else must be made IMO. Karma is just too good.
Karma's cutting it close, but everything else is too good or too bad
*Blue- Hibernation and Baleful Stare
Chill- Too good for Standard.
Douse- Close, but Stare seems more in flavor and this seems a little too good.
Blue's hosers are spectacular but not needed (usually).
*Black: Jovial Evil / Dread of Night and Slay (Plus Paladins)
Perish/Nature's Ruin/Virtue's Ruin - Wrath costs 4 and is White. Do the math.
Black's hosers for Green are either Perish or suck. There has to be a mid-ground.
*Red: Flashfires and Boil
Anarchy- destroys enchantments so no.
Curse of Mariat Lage- Choke is superior, so no.
These are going to be the standard Red hoser cards from now on. Them seem really balanced.
Green- Choke and Whirling Dervish (?)
Compost- Too good. Really too good.
Green needs a black hoser that doesn't suck or over hate. Dervish is meh but fast I guess.
Arti Hate: Serenity, Energy Flux, Shatterstorm, Seeds of Innocence, Kill Switch
WotC needs to hate Affinity with a vengance. They need to say "We screwed up. Lets fix the problem." Bannings aren't really needed, but may come close.
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Justice- Crazily too good. Red scoops if you have more life then them.
Sphere of Law- This card is so amazingly good. If it resolves most Red decks scoop.
WooWee, what red decks have you been playing against? justice is strong but all it does is equalize the life totals and for the most part a red deck will be better at dealing the killing blow and since justice deals damage in response to the red players damage you die before its triggered.
and sphere of law is okay but not amazing and the only red decks that would scoop against it would be decks with nothing bigger than 2 power and no damage spells greater than 2 damage.
and since when do red decks scoop if you have more life than them? red decks are a lot like suicide black decks they don't care if they take damage or if you have more life than them they just keep on coming.
i'm not actually a red player, i'm a blue player but i know better than to underestimate the power of red. cop:red has for a long time been one of the best red hosers and even without a way to get rid of it red decks are still able to win just by piling on the damage.
Justice isn't lifegain, it's counterattack. And it's true - if red has less life, there's pretty much no hope left because any damage he assigns will go right back. He'll need to get the fatal blow in one shot before Justice kills him.
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i do not agree with you, armlx. Just take a look at perish and then compost. you kill all my green creatures, and I draw ONE (only one) card. try to imagine mono-black vs. mono green in this analysis.
you see, the thing is, bereavement hoses the green player by making them discard everytime they lose a creature. Well, green is all about creatures, and black excels at creature destruction so with a second turn bereavement followed by some mass weenie removal (hideous laughter for example) will kill all the green players' birds, elves, sakuras, etc. and rip his hand away from him. I think that is a powerful hoser, but nothing like perish. As other users have said, wrath of god is more expensive and affects all creatures, so yes, maybe bereavement is too powerful, but I do not see anything else to be in the base set (and no, perish is not an option in my opinion)
[edit]: I agree with you in one thing: chill is prolly not coming back (so I'll change my earlier post later with a new blue hoser for red), but it's not because is too powerful, but because of a color pie redistribution. it seems like white has got the "pay X more to play" and tapping out permanents. they are sort of shifting into white the mana denial aspect of the game (see ghostly prision for example) so maybe chill will return in the future as a WHITE hoser for red (and maybe costing 3)... what do you think of that?
That'd be bastardly. White already has a good amount of anti-red, and this would finish off the rest of it.
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I'd love to see Scald come back merely to haunt all you blue punks out there who think they're the ****. But wasn't there another huge blue hoser that red lost when extended was rotated? Gah...it was a big loss too...
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'buster
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Then, lets forget the white Chill for now and hope R&D comes with a decent blue hoser for red. Douse anyone?
Or print a nice counter in the line of hydroblast:
Soratami Fire Extinguisher
Instant
Counter target instant or sorcery spell if it is red.
Draw a card.
Let's hose red!
why not just print Suffocation instead and call it a day
Douse would be sick. But if that was the case then Lifeforce and Deathgrip would have to come back too merely to support that type of hosage.
White
Karma
Sanctimony - Conversion maybe?
Blue
Wrath of Marit Lage - Please don't stick us with this WotC, give back Chill.
Hibernation
Black - it's special because it has four, sort of.
Eastern Paladin
Western Paladin
Execute
Slay
Red
Boil
Flashfires
green
Choke
Spreading Algae - Are you kidding me? What in the.....why did this even happen?
I don't really have a problem with the red ones or Karma, but the rest of it is what I hope, well pray, WotC has planned to change up somehow or another for Ninth.
Then again, knowing our luck, we'll lose Karma and get Stern Judge back. The red ones will probably become Curse of Marit Lage and Anarchy (actually, that may not be too bad).
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BTW, you left out Hibernation
there's no colour hosers in kamigawa so far but there are deck type hosers. ishi ishi goblin crackshot for spirit arcane, night of souls betrayal for weenie, reduce to dreams for shrines and kitsune riftwalker also for spirit arcane.
personally if i were working on 9th i'd bring back all the high powered colour hosers:
white-
karma vrs black
conversion vrs red
blue-
chill vrs red
hibernation vrs green
black-
perish vrs green
gloom vrs white
red-
boil vrs blue
flashfires vrs white
green-
compost vrs black
choke vrs blue
that way all the colours would have even strength hosers against each other, as opposed to the current system where the only colour which wins out with its hosers is red.
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I don't think anyone's mentioned artifact hosers, because I think the topic the thread starter seemed to want to encourage discussion is that of what color specific hosers we think will be in 9th. I bet everyone was thinking about artifact hosers when they were making their posts.
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Just some ideas of what could come..
I kind of hope that they bring back Stench of Evil with some better art instead of Gloom, mainly because White has lots of ways around enchantments even if Gloom is in play.
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Stench of evil isn't coming back becuase Black doesn't to LD anymore. So the only thing to pray for is Flashfires again.
And Engery Flux would have to get a downgrade before thay would print it. Maybe if it affect only up to 3 target artifacts.
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Black doesn't do LD anymore...so...they reprinted Befoul because...
They can't change cards for Core sets, and there's no reason to tone down Energy Flux. If it was toned down, it wouldn't be a hoser.
As far as artifact hosers go, I think Shatterstorm is the best bet. It's the simplest artifact hoser there is, and it will be plenty effective at hosing Affinity after Disciple gets banned (hint hint).
as for artifact hosers in 9th i think that both shatterstorm and aura flux are easily possible reprints(although aura flux would probably become rare). 1 other thing is that oxidize will most likely be reprinted in 9th, its nice and simple, fits the colour wheel and more importantly was recently made into a textless card and all the textless cards will most likely become core set cards if they aren't allready.
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I would like the hosers to be those:
Red: flashfires/boil (in 8e these two were just fine)
Green: compost/choke (spreading algae was never an option)
Blue: chill/hibernation (if red has something as boil, chill is just fair for blue)
White: Karma/Warmth (Warmth would put white's hoser for red in the same level of flashfires)
Black: Bereavement/Yawgmoth's Edict (the 7e hosers are fine for me, not very powerful nor weak)
Don't you love when people make such claims and are wrong?
If black doesn't do lands, then Rancid Earth, Death Cloud, Despoil, etc wouldn't have gotten printed.
Black does do LD, just not as much as Red.
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*White: Karma and Absolute Law (and Silver & White Knight)
Justice- Crazily too good. Red scoops if you have more life then them.
Conversion- Upkeep cost seems complicated for some reason.
Sphere of Law- This card is so amazingly good. If it resolves most Red decks scoop.
White has hosers like none other. The only problem is a card worse than Karma but better than everything else must be made IMO. Karma is just too good.
Karma's cutting it close, but everything else is too good or too bad
*Blue- Hibernation and Baleful Stare
Chill- Too good for Standard.
Douse- Close, but Stare seems more in flavor and this seems a little too good.
Blue's hosers are spectacular but not needed (usually).
*Black: Jovial Evil / Dread of Night and Slay (Plus Paladins)
Perish/Nature's Ruin/Virtue's Ruin - Wrath costs 4 and is White. Do the math.
Black's hosers for Green are either Perish or suck. There has to be a mid-ground.
*Red: Flashfires and Boil
Anarchy- destroys enchantments so no.
Curse of Mariat Lage- Choke is superior, so no.
These are going to be the standard Red hoser cards from now on. Them seem really balanced.
Green- Choke and Whirling Dervish (?)
Compost- Too good. Really too good.
Green needs a black hoser that doesn't suck or over hate. Dervish is meh but fast I guess.
Arti Hate: Serenity, Energy Flux, Shatterstorm, Seeds of Innocence, Kill Switch
WotC needs to hate Affinity with a vengance. They need to say "We screwed up. Lets fix the problem." Bannings aren't really needed, but may come close.
WooWee, what red decks have you been playing against? justice is strong but all it does is equalize the life totals and for the most part a red deck will be better at dealing the killing blow and since justice deals damage in response to the red players damage you die before its triggered.
and sphere of law is okay but not amazing and the only red decks that would scoop against it would be decks with nothing bigger than 2 power and no damage spells greater than 2 damage.
and since when do red decks scoop if you have more life than them? red decks are a lot like suicide black decks they don't care if they take damage or if you have more life than them they just keep on coming.
i'm not actually a red player, i'm a blue player but i know better than to underestimate the power of red. cop:red has for a long time been one of the best red hosers and even without a way to get rid of it red decks are still able to win just by piling on the damage.
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Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
you see, the thing is, bereavement hoses the green player by making them discard everytime they lose a creature. Well, green is all about creatures, and black excels at creature destruction so with a second turn bereavement followed by some mass weenie removal (hideous laughter for example) will kill all the green players' birds, elves, sakuras, etc. and rip his hand away from him. I think that is a powerful hoser, but nothing like perish. As other users have said, wrath of god is more expensive and affects all creatures, so yes, maybe bereavement is too powerful, but I do not see anything else to be in the base set (and no, perish is not an option in my opinion)
[edit]: I agree with you in one thing: chill is prolly not coming back (so I'll change my earlier post later with a new blue hoser for red), but it's not because is too powerful, but because of a color pie redistribution. it seems like white has got the "pay X more to play" and tapping out permanents. they are sort of shifting into white the mana denial aspect of the game (see ghostly prision for example) so maybe chill will return in the future as a WHITE hoser for red (and maybe costing 3)... what do you think of that?
Don't you love when people make such claims and are wrong?
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'buster
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why not just print Suffocation instead and call it a day
Douse would be sick. But if that was the case then Lifeforce and Deathgrip would have to come back too merely to support that type of hosage.
wheee!
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
BEB and Suffocate.
Chill's too good for the current environment... a 3-cost Chill would be about right, though.
Karma costs 4... if black doesn't have you on the ropes by the time it hits play, then black deserves to lose.
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