The biggest problem I see with the Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game business model itself nowadays is how do you make it lucrative enough but not financially expensive enough to get as much out of the card game as possible while promoting more growth for local communities backing said card game? The problem is that unless your card game is tied to a successful anime/manga, video game franchise, or what have you and you're only relying on nostalgia alone to sell the brand which is where Magic: The Gathering is at right now then you're not going to be able to draw new blood into your card game unless they're cultured into it. The real challenge here is how to draw the attention of those who you're wanting to be cultured into your card game while simultaneously not alienating them in the process.
Excellent point.
I am trying to point out what NOT to do and they are doing it. I am not sure what TO do. I don't know if there actually is a solution at this point. They need a movie, they need a short Netflix like series if they want to expand. If not they need to make it cheaper and more accessible. This they are not doing and doing the exact opposite.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It just feels like people are trying to deliberately kill this game while unsuccessfully trying to make it look like they aren·t .
It does certainly look that way doesn't it?
Its why I mentioned that exact thing a few posts above.
So If someone like Elon Musk decided to buy out Wizards of the Coast or Hasbro, do you think it's more likely that they would shut it all down or ask Wizards of the Coast to get as much money as they can out of their players, so they could recoup some of the cost of acquiring the company?
The answer depends upon the buyer's goals. Is it a short term "flip it" investment? Or is a a long term investment looking for revenue stream and further growth?
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So really you're just pointing out something that we all know and understand.
That's the thing. I believe there are people that DON'T understand this or are willingly ignoring it.
And once again, any game, pass-time or non essential item/service (food, medicine, shelter) is considered a luxury item in economics. Magic the Gathering has ALWAYS been a luxury item. Pricing does not dictate a luxury item. By your statement you don't fully grasp that either. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to inform people. Please don't take that the wrong way. I agree with a good deal of the other things you said. But at its core, MTG is a luxury, a non necessity and luxuries are always trimmed from budgets when it comes between them and essentials.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Dow took a brutal beating today. Target's quarterly profits down 52% for the quarter. Gas prices at a record high day after day. Inflation spiraling out of control.
Hasbro/Wotc: "Yep lets raise prices on a luxury item. Lets see how that works out."
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():
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It also doesn't help that you have the older demographic of Paper Magic leaving the game more than the newer demographic
Possibly correct. Guess which cohort has more disposable income to buy product?
I am not privy to the numbers but I would be willing to bet that every older/established/Legacy player out there spends 5 to 10 times as much on Magic product (phyiscal or digital) than an new/young/youth player just starting out on Arena and/or Paper. I would also guess turnover/attrition rate is FAR higher from the younger set than the established set as well, contrary to your statement. I could be wrong of course.
If they manage to kill off or effectively kill off paper Magic look for Arena not the be "free" any more. Probably some sort of subscription service would be my guess.
Double Masters should not be a draft set either. It should be all decent value reprints. But hey, gotta milk those whales right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You will be hard pressed to find a station that has gas for a few pennies less than 4 dollars a gallon at this point, even in a state like Missouri. Unlike Missouri, my midwestern state has I believe the second highest total fuel tax rates in the nation as well. Its oppressive.
So then everything goes up in price that has to be transported/shipped. EVERY one of my bills is up at least 10 to 20 percent. The bogus inflation number of 8.5% is a cooked up under-representation of real home budget issues. Water bill is up, Electricity is up, Natural gas is up. Internet/Cable is up. Trash pickup just went up near 50% overnight due to hauling fuel "costs". Wish I could get a 50% raise. Groceries are through the roof just to feed a modest family of three. Home insurance went up 40% this year. UP UP UP!!! Cost of living is UP everywhere.
So in this situation, Hasbro thinks its a good idea to jack their prices UP ON A LUXURY ITEM, not a necessity to budgets that are already stretched thin. Where are the cuts in a home budget going to go? Necessities or luxuries? Its either dumb thinking or designed to hasten the death of paper Magic.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Would officially discontinuing specific paper formats outside of EDH / Commander and Modern help reduce the cost of the game in terms of the Secondary Market to offset market inflation?
Nope, the opposite would more than likely occur.
Printing cards that players want and more playable cards that players can use is a good start.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Magic the game itself is being pulled in a lot of directions right now. A business needs a healthy bottom line but at the sole expense of the consumer is a sleazy way of doing it. There very well may be many within WotC fighting for the long term health of the game being over-ridden by Hasbro execs.
When draft boosters go to $5 USD from $4 USD a pack in big box/retail stores is when I quit buying them on impulse. And I only have X amount budgeted for Magic and I am not bumping that up. I can't but think there are thousands of others like myself out there. Inflation here in the US is real and pervasive as well. Its not going away soon either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Hasbro operates on like a 10% profit margin overall with all product lines.
WotC has a 40% profit margin, and that is like 22% of Hasbro revenue.
With a 40% profit margin, increasing the cost of boosters is pretty wild, so nobody can possible deny that WotC is indeed milking the player base dry.
They have plenty of room to not increase prices.
Thanks for posting that. They (Hasbro) suffer from the fallacy that players/buyers are like some inexhaustable money tree that you can just keep on taking from and it will never run out. It will run out at some point and maybe that is the goal, take as much as possible short term and who cares about the long term. It doesn't surprise me what they are doing, just disappoints me greatly because they aren't thinking about the long term health of the game, just the short term cash grab.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Hey WotC/Hasbro if you are reading this. I keep on paying more and more for everything, all my bills are higher and my salary isn't keeping up with inflation. What do you think I am going to cut out of my budget? Hint: it won't be necessities. Rethink your strategy or prepare for leaner times.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
making the product more expensive might throw paper in a decline even more than it already is.
BINGO, we have a winner.
By design? Possibly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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Excellent point.
I am trying to point out what NOT to do and they are doing it. I am not sure what TO do. I don't know if there actually is a solution at this point. They need a movie, they need a short Netflix like series if they want to expand. If not they need to make it cheaper and more accessible. This they are not doing and doing the exact opposite.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It does certainly look that way doesn't it?
Its why I mentioned that exact thing a few posts above.
The answer depends upon the buyer's goals. Is it a short term "flip it" investment? Or is a a long term investment looking for revenue stream and further growth?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
That's the thing. I believe there are people that DON'T understand this or are willingly ignoring it.
And once again, any game, pass-time or non essential item/service (food, medicine, shelter) is considered a luxury item in economics. Magic the Gathering has ALWAYS been a luxury item. Pricing does not dictate a luxury item. By your statement you don't fully grasp that either. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to inform people. Please don't take that the wrong way. I agree with a good deal of the other things you said. But at its core, MTG is a luxury, a non necessity and luxuries are always trimmed from budgets when it comes between them and essentials.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Hasbro/Wotc: "Yep lets raise prices on a luxury item. Lets see how that works out."
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Possibly correct. Guess which cohort has more disposable income to buy product?
I am not privy to the numbers but I would be willing to bet that every older/established/Legacy player out there spends 5 to 10 times as much on Magic product (phyiscal or digital) than an new/young/youth player just starting out on Arena and/or Paper. I would also guess turnover/attrition rate is FAR higher from the younger set than the established set as well, contrary to your statement. I could be wrong of course.
If they manage to kill off or effectively kill off paper Magic look for Arena not the be "free" any more. Probably some sort of subscription service would be my guess.
Double Masters should not be a draft set either. It should be all decent value reprints. But hey, gotta milk those whales right?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
https://gasprices.aaa.com/
You will be hard pressed to find a station that has gas for a few pennies less than 4 dollars a gallon at this point, even in a state like Missouri. Unlike Missouri, my midwestern state has I believe the second highest total fuel tax rates in the nation as well. Its oppressive.
So then everything goes up in price that has to be transported/shipped. EVERY one of my bills is up at least 10 to 20 percent. The bogus inflation number of 8.5% is a cooked up under-representation of real home budget issues. Water bill is up, Electricity is up, Natural gas is up. Internet/Cable is up. Trash pickup just went up near 50% overnight due to hauling fuel "costs". Wish I could get a 50% raise. Groceries are through the roof just to feed a modest family of three. Home insurance went up 40% this year. UP UP UP!!! Cost of living is UP everywhere.
So in this situation, Hasbro thinks its a good idea to jack their prices UP ON A LUXURY ITEM, not a necessity to budgets that are already stretched thin. Where are the cuts in a home budget going to go? Necessities or luxuries? Its either dumb thinking or designed to hasten the death of paper Magic.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Nope, the opposite would more than likely occur.
Printing cards that players want and more playable cards that players can use is a good start.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Magic the game itself is being pulled in a lot of directions right now. A business needs a healthy bottom line but at the sole expense of the consumer is a sleazy way of doing it. There very well may be many within WotC fighting for the long term health of the game being over-ridden by Hasbro execs.
When draft boosters go to $5 USD from $4 USD a pack in big box/retail stores is when I quit buying them on impulse. And I only have X amount budgeted for Magic and I am not bumping that up. I can't but think there are thousands of others like myself out there. Inflation here in the US is real and pervasive as well. Its not going away soon either.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks for posting that. They (Hasbro) suffer from the fallacy that players/buyers are like some inexhaustable money tree that you can just keep on taking from and it will never run out. It will run out at some point and maybe that is the goal, take as much as possible short term and who cares about the long term. It doesn't surprise me what they are doing, just disappoints me greatly because they aren't thinking about the long term health of the game, just the short term cash grab.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
BINGO, we have a winner.
By design? Possibly.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
For WotC/Hasbro sure.
For everyone else that buys product first or secondhand and all of WotC's employees and employee's of distributors, not so.
Magic is a "luxury" item, not a staple or necessity like food/housing/clothing/medicine. People cut luxuries first, sales are going to drop, period.
Agreed. But it makes a handy scapegoat doesn't it?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/magic-gathering-pricing-update-2022-04-19
If you like audio and visual, try this out.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_bBnS42D-c&t=657s
Gotta love that inflation.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."