I forgot to add, that we've obviously played with a bigger draftpool, so you don't have to play 40/45 cards. Not sure how many cards you actually need, since I've only really tested this in 1v1 Winchester so far. This requires some testing.
Also since I palyed this yesterday with my friend I realised, that we actually didn't use start with 5 cards in hand, but rather 7 each.
Ah, yeah. Right on, then. If you're drafting a larger pool and also starting with a full hand instead of only five, I can see how that would make the card a bit better for you than it has been for me.
We didn't use more draft cards, nor more cards in hand, when the Realm was still a pickable card in the cube. We only changed that for the modified draft.
Yeah artifacts and mutlicolor cards do change some properties. Artifacts with some kind of color attached to them still have a color idenity, e.g. a Signet counts as booth of it's colors.
Colorless artifacts are a bit problematic, but in our tests so far not too much actually, since your other cards usually provide all the colors you need a few Wastes here and there don't actually hurt all that much.
Multicolor cards are also a problem. They can go from harder to cast to amazing fixing, if you can simply use them for either type of basic. I think, that I like the idea, that you can exchange them for duals, but only tapped ones, so they still have a downside, also you might not want to thorw away your multicolor cards, as they are often stronger than the average monocolored card.
I like the fact that splashing is hard, which is a difference to e.g. the split library system. It's still possible. I've actually sometimes kept some fixing nonbasics in my deck instead of spells, since I usually wanted to keep most of my spells anyway and the fixing was quite welcome. It's definitely hard though.
I'm actually not entirely sure if exileing is even the right solution. Instead of exiling you could also shuffle the cards back into your deck, which makes it so, that you can use a splash card for mana first and draw and play it later in the game. This is actually how they handle it in Mythgaard. The Problem is, that mill becomes a lot worse and that you will spend a lot of time shuffleing, it's like every land you play is a fetchland, so basically modern.
I mentioned it in my last post, and edited it in the original post, we used 7 card starting hands. You have a guaranteed land drop each turn and run out of cards in hand at the same rate as a normal deck would. This deifnitely feels like the right amount.
I also mentioned/edited, that you need a bigger draft pool, though I can't really give you any advice on how big it should be, since I only did Winchester draft so far, which has a completely different size of a draft pool. To quote myself: "maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time."
I think you should aim for a 40 card deck.
@Poster formerly known as Phitt77:
Yeah I know that battle box exists, but I'm mostly looking for a mana system that can be used in normal drafted decks. Choosing any basic land kind of defeats the purpose of colors, which is the problem with Hearthstones mana system.
@calibretto:
I've made the exact opposite experience. I've had Worldnkit in my cube for a long while as the only exception for the rarity restriction and it was always super fun and creatures unique decks, but was rarely ever stronger than the average deck. When Sovereign's Realm released, I tested it immediatly and it felt so extremely broken that it was removed from the cube after I think 2 tries.
I forgot to add, that we've obviously played with a bigger draftpool, so you don't have to play 40/45 cards. Not sure how many cards you actually need, since I've only really tested this in 1v1 Winchester so far. This requires some testing.
Also since I palyed this yesterday with my friend I realised, that we actually didn't use start with 5 cards in hand, but rather 7 each.
@Purplemurasaki:
We are already using a free 7 in all of our cube drafts. The thing with the added complexity is something me and my hand actually really enjoyed. It's of course bad for beginners, but for players on a compareable level it's really cool.
So far we've tested this mana system with 3 different cubes, my pauper cube, my artifact pauper cube and a kaladesh cube and we were surprised how little it actually changed the game. Aggro decks of course have more gas, but card draw spells for control decks are extremely powerful, since you are guaranteed to hit gas aswell. The thing was, that every deck did pretty much exaclty what it wants to do and it comes to good lines of play, the correct decisions of what to discard and some luck of drawing the right card at the right time.
I've recently been convinced to play a new digital card game named Mythgaard by some friends, since it's one of the few TCGs, which actively supports 2hg. It's an interesting card game that does a lot of things right, like evading powercreep and reducing RNG to a minimum. I can definitely recommend it, though the lack of instant-speed type effects is my main point of critique, because it takes a lot of possible depth out of the game.
Part of the reason why the RNG is so low is, it's mana system, which is to this day probably the biggest weakness of MTG. It's probably one of the oldest and simplest ideas for a mana system there are and I'm kind of surprised, that there aren't more TCGs (at least the ones I know), which use it. You simply play an all spells deck and in order to get mana of a specific color you simply discard a card of the corresponding color. In the case of mythgaard you shuffle it back into your deck, but when you draw it again you can't use it for mana again.
I'm alawys interested in testing some different variants in my cube drafts, since I have more than one friend, who is tilted by too much flood/screw and either only plays commander or quits magic entirely. I'm always on the look out for ways to remotivate those people to play "real" magic.
I've already put a lot of work into making something like the "Force of Will" (the card game, not the mtg card) mana system work, with seperate libraries for spells and lands, but when I thought about the Mythgaard mana system I remembered, that there already exists a magic "card", that does that: Sovereign's Realm
Sovereign's Realm is probably one of the most broken cards you can have in a cube draft, but what if everyone had access to this effect? It obviously needs to be altered a little bit, so that it reads:
Sovereign's Realm
Conspiracy
(Start the game with this conspiracy face up in the command zone.)
Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is five. Edit: Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is seven.
Exile a card from your hand: This turn, you may put a basic land from outside the game, with the same color identity as the card exiled this way, into your hand.
In a nutshell, you can exile a blue card from your hand and put an Island into your hand. If you exile an artifact without a color identity you get a waste.
I wasn't really sure how to handle multicolor cards. They would be a bit too good if you can simply choose a basic of either color. Alternatively you could change it, so that they can only search for tapped duals (e.g. Guildgates).
There are obviously a lot of problems with this type of effect. I actively reworded it so it says, that you put the lands into your hand so cards like Compulsive Research can still do their job.
The fix for land ramp (e.g. Farseek) is pretty easy. Simply search for a basic from outside the game.
If tested this in a 1v1 winchester draft with a friend (Sadly not a bigger group yet. You know, Corona and stuff) and we were booth postively surprised. We had some amazing games of magic. No screw, no flood, just smooth and interactive games.
Not sure if anyone is interested in this sort of stuff, but I just wanted to share my positive experience with you and maybe give you an idea, if you also have people in your group, who are very hard to enthuse for cube drafts, due to the internal flaws of magic, or simply want to try something different.
Edit: You need a bigger draftpool in order for all drafters to get 40 spells they are happy with. I don't know how many yet, maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Colorless artifacts are a bit problematic, but in our tests so far not too much actually, since your other cards usually provide all the colors you need a few Wastes here and there don't actually hurt all that much.
Multicolor cards are also a problem. They can go from harder to cast to amazing fixing, if you can simply use them for either type of basic. I think, that I like the idea, that you can exchange them for duals, but only tapped ones, so they still have a downside, also you might not want to thorw away your multicolor cards, as they are often stronger than the average monocolored card.
I like the fact that splashing is hard, which is a difference to e.g. the split library system. It's still possible. I've actually sometimes kept some fixing nonbasics in my deck instead of spells, since I usually wanted to keep most of my spells anyway and the fixing was quite welcome. It's definitely hard though.
I'm actually not entirely sure if exileing is even the right solution. Instead of exiling you could also shuffle the cards back into your deck, which makes it so, that you can use a splash card for mana first and draw and play it later in the game. This is actually how they handle it in Mythgaard. The Problem is, that mill becomes a lot worse and that you will spend a lot of time shuffleing, it's like every land you play is a fetchland, so basically modern.
I mentioned it in my last post, and edited it in the original post, we used 7 card starting hands. You have a guaranteed land drop each turn and run out of cards in hand at the same rate as a normal deck would. This deifnitely feels like the right amount.
I also mentioned/edited, that you need a bigger draft pool, though I can't really give you any advice on how big it should be, since I only did Winchester draft so far, which has a completely different size of a draft pool. To quote myself: "maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time."
I think you should aim for a 40 card deck.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Yeah I know that battle box exists, but I'm mostly looking for a mana system that can be used in normal drafted decks. Choosing any basic land kind of defeats the purpose of colors, which is the problem with Hearthstones mana system.
@calibretto:
I've made the exact opposite experience. I've had Worldnkit in my cube for a long while as the only exception for the rarity restriction and it was always super fun and creatures unique decks, but was rarely ever stronger than the average deck. When Sovereign's Realm released, I tested it immediatly and it felt so extremely broken that it was removed from the cube after I think 2 tries.
I forgot to add, that we've obviously played with a bigger draftpool, so you don't have to play 40/45 cards. Not sure how many cards you actually need, since I've only really tested this in 1v1 Winchester so far. This requires some testing.
Also since I palyed this yesterday with my friend I realised, that we actually didn't use start with 5 cards in hand, but rather 7 each.
@Purplemurasaki:
We are already using a free 7 in all of our cube drafts. The thing with the added complexity is something me and my hand actually really enjoyed. It's of course bad for beginners, but for players on a compareable level it's really cool.
So far we've tested this mana system with 3 different cubes, my pauper cube, my artifact pauper cube and a kaladesh cube and we were surprised how little it actually changed the game. Aggro decks of course have more gas, but card draw spells for control decks are extremely powerful, since you are guaranteed to hit gas aswell. The thing was, that every deck did pretty much exaclty what it wants to do and it comes to good lines of play, the correct decisions of what to discard and some luck of drawing the right card at the right time.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)
Part of the reason why the RNG is so low is, it's mana system, which is to this day probably the biggest weakness of MTG. It's probably one of the oldest and simplest ideas for a mana system there are and I'm kind of surprised, that there aren't more TCGs (at least the ones I know), which use it. You simply play an all spells deck and in order to get mana of a specific color you simply discard a card of the corresponding color. In the case of mythgaard you shuffle it back into your deck, but when you draw it again you can't use it for mana again.
I'm alawys interested in testing some different variants in my cube drafts, since I have more than one friend, who is tilted by too much flood/screw and either only plays commander or quits magic entirely. I'm always on the look out for ways to remotivate those people to play "real" magic.
I've already put a lot of work into making something like the "Force of Will" (the card game, not the mtg card) mana system work, with seperate libraries for spells and lands, but when I thought about the Mythgaard mana system I remembered, that there already exists a magic "card", that does that: Sovereign's Realm
Sovereign's Realm is probably one of the most broken cards you can have in a cube draft, but what if everyone had access to this effect? It obviously needs to be altered a little bit, so that it reads:
Sovereign's Realm
Conspiracy
(Start the game with this conspiracy face up in the command zone.)
Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is five.Edit: Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is seven.
Exile a card from your hand: This turn, you may put a basic land from outside the game, with the same color identity as the card exiled this way, into your hand.
In a nutshell, you can exile a blue card from your hand and put an Island into your hand. If you exile an artifact without a color identity you get a waste.
I wasn't really sure how to handle multicolor cards. They would be a bit too good if you can simply choose a basic of either color. Alternatively you could change it, so that they can only search for tapped duals (e.g. Guildgates).
There are obviously a lot of problems with this type of effect. I actively reworded it so it says, that you put the lands into your hand so cards like Compulsive Research can still do their job.
The fix for land ramp (e.g. Farseek) is pretty easy. Simply search for a basic from outside the game.
If tested this in a 1v1 winchester draft with a friend (Sadly not a bigger group yet. You know, Corona and stuff) and we were booth postively surprised. We had some amazing games of magic. No screw, no flood, just smooth and interactive games.
Not sure if anyone is interested in this sort of stuff, but I just wanted to share my positive experience with you and maybe give you an idea, if you also have people in your group, who are very hard to enthuse for cube drafts, due to the internal flaws of magic, or simply want to try something different.
Edit: You need a bigger draftpool in order for all drafters to get 40 spells they are happy with. I don't know how many yet, maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time.
Pauper Cube & Artifact Pauper Cube & Multiplayer Cube
Interested in building your own Pauper Cube? Take a look at some of the lists and the following project: The "Evaluate Everything" Project (updated to M21/JMP)