The latter is more fun but in this case transforming into a dragon is something that does suck. Like a lot.
Oh well :/ . I mean. mission accomplished if that's the case.
The biggest problem aside from Vit is that Verity's role has zero utility until you know the roles of other people. On this site, mass claims don't generally happen before day 3. So the role is useless before day 3, pretty much. And then it's useless afterward.
I think the neighborizer thing is a dry well. Either make masons or find a more useful mechanic to experiment with would be my advice. Or just let everyone talk during night, just not vote.
Lastly in role madness games like this you either have to give scum completely absurd roles or really limit the town. It's hard to give town satisfying powerful roles in role madness while keeping the game balanced.
This is silly to me.
1. If you can't give people fun roles, don't give people roles at all. The goal is to make a fun game.
2. As I said before, mafia has always been able to function with an inspector, doctor, etc. It works just fine.
Roles that cost more to do less make little sense. "Oh no, if we give people powers, they might use them! They might even keep using them night after night! We can't have that!"
If you don't want people using their powers, don't give them powers. Just make a vanilla game.
I can disagree on assessments of some roles (I think Verity is strong than HR did)
Verity is among the worst-designed roles I've ever seen. I would have preferred being a vanilla town.
Also, I get that you're in love with the flavor, and I've never read the books, but is turning into a dragon supposed to suck? Is it something you should avoid? Is turning into a dragon supposed to be the worst thing?
Or are you supposed to feel like a badass? "Holy *****, I'm a ******* dragon!"
Sorry I thought I busted you, Vaimes. I just really never believed that every single person voting CropCircles prior to his self-vote was town. To me he seemed very clearly town, and I always felt there had to be at least one in those initial five or so people who voted for him that was mafia.
And he was the source of both vit drains. Damn... I wondered.
I recall a talk by Mark Rosewater in which he discusses the lessons he learned over the years of Magic in terms of game design, and one of the things he learned was that just because a mechanic is interesting, it does not mean it will be fun. This game epitomized this. There were many mechanics, and a lot of them were interesting, but they weren't fun.
This game reminds me of Secret Agent Mafia in which there was a mechanic called "burner phones" which allowed the players to use money to create a neighbor chat. Except this was pointless, because neighboring is not a particularly useful ability, and is, at times, an outright liability due to the fact that, unlike with masons, you don't know the role of the other person. Neighboring is probably the most useless ability in mafia that isn't just an outright posting or voting restriction.
This game had that same design problem except cranked up to eleven because the ENTIRE GAME revolved around being a neighborizer, and on top of that, neighboring required making yourself easier to kill in order to use.
Not to mention so many of the roles just became weaker versions of already existing roles. Mafia functions fine when an inspector can just inspect, when a doctor can just freely protect a person. In this game, we had roles that were weaker that had to kill themselves to use their abilities. Why?
Honestly, I'd say Highroller is scum just based on how he's been behaving toDay, the one Day where he's forced to have reads on other players.
Says the guy who had no reads yesterday?
Honestly, Anak being town ****ed with my head. I'm now in a spiral of constantly reading someone one way and then the other. Not to mention I'm the only one who believes I'm town and who understands that my death will lose us the game, so I could have all the evidence in the world that someone's mafia, and it won't matter if the town's too busy trying to kill someone the mafia targeted.
How in the hell are there no votes? What have you guys been doing?
But, you know, call me crazy, because I was thinking about this as I was brushing my teeth - I have a hard time believing that mafia Killjoy would be so blatantly trying to square a circle like this in the open on the last day when he could just lay low and kill a person he knows is probably going to die anyway. I think Killjoy might well be town.
Sorry, this should say "mafia Sloth" and "Sloth might well be town."
That's because what you said doesn't make ******* sense.
We're at LyLo. There's no self-pressing. You don't ******* vote another player on the high crime of voting you unless you actually think they're scum and "maybe you're mafia lol!" should not be an acceptable response to anyone.
You saying you'd rather vote KJ even though you think he's town at LyLo is ******* absurd, and you trying to point to a post where you "explain it" makes it even worse.
Why? Because the town might lose? It's LyLo! If any town misvotes, then the town loses! That's what LyLo means!
@HR: Do you think Sloth is scum for his analysis of you?
You know, Killjoy, you asked me this earlier, and I said Sloth posting terrible analysis was NAI, it neither meant that he was town nor mafia, either side could post bad analysis.
But, you know, call me crazy, because I was thinking about this as I was brushing my teeth - I have a hard time believing that mafia Killjoy would be so blatantly trying to square a circle like this in the open on the last day when he could just lay low and kill a person he knows is probably going to die anyway. I think Killjoy might well be town.
Which makes me wonder if it's really so simple as you, Sloth, and I - the three people who have a connection to the mafia vit stealer, two by target and one by claiming town version of the role - might really just all be town. Like, we might really have just been mech-cleared the entire time. Which would mean the mafia really was among Vaimes, Bur, Tubba, and BoomFrog the entire time.
That would make me kind of sad. Even more so if people are right and Bur is town, in which case it would have been Vaimes, Tubba, and BoomFrog as mafia.
I dunno if I believe that, but I think it would hurt if it would have been that simple the whole time.
@HR: I wasn't really around when the claims happened and didn't realize we claimed that.
There was a whole discussion about people losing vitality during the night. You can't have not realized we were talking about this.
The town still has a chance of winning if (A) you and Sloth are both mafia, or (B) you're town and you decide to do a double lynch, somehow manage to get everyone to coordinate with you, and manage to lynch me and another person who actually is mafia.
The odds of you actually doing this are pretty much non-existent, but I refuse to gamethrow, so, take that for what you will.
Stop. Saying that every time you're challenged. [/quote]I'm not saying that every time I'm challenged. I'm saying that every time you ask me a question I've just answered.
Just go ahead and vote me so we can end this game.
Everyone who thinks I'm mafia needs to justify why I got attacked by the mafia. Twice. And also why you're townreading Killjoy who also is claiming the exact same thing (belatedly).
I know, it's almost like I'm town. Crazy.
Hopefully when I get back here I'll find we haven't lost the game. C'mon town. You can do it. I believe in you.
Why would the mafia shoot you N3? You declared your role super transparently, If you are town the mafia knew your vit was high. Why waste a shot on you?
Probably because I posted this. (In response to you.)
My role ability allows me to turn into a sleeping dragon. While sleeping, my vit becomes 1, and I can only post a post that contains anything other than just a vote once every 24 hours. Once during each phase while slumbering, I can open up a communication link with a player that lasts up to 2 phases. While I'm asleep, any player who has such a communication link cannot have their role abilities blocked, redirected, or prevented.
Why would the mafia shoot you N3? You declared your role super transparently, If you are town the mafia knew your vit was high. Why waste a shot on you?
Probably because I posted this. (In response to you.)
The hell? HR are you reading posts?
You're being asked why mafia would shoot you N3 in light of the post you're referring to, where you state you have a lot of vit.
By not using my ability, I reduced the chances of the mafia winning. Had I used my ability and they pinged me, I would have died and it would be gg. Had I used my ability, it would be permanent, meaning I'd be at 1 vit for the rest of the game.
Although, HR: You just said it was a bad idea to kill me rn then said you'd vote me. Whats up with that?
Because if any town votes any other town, and refuses to move that vote, we're ****ed. It's LyLo. So if you're voting me and refusing to budge, then either you're mafia, in which case I should vote you, or you're town, in which case it doesn't even matter.
Again, maybe you're mafia, but I'd rather you live today.
What the hell does this mean? Why would you vote KJ if you think he's town? How does voting him at all do anything?
You're obviously not even reading my posts.
And it's one thing to miss stuff that happened previous days, it's another thing entirely to miss stuff that happened like the previous page, especially when your question has either been answered in a conversation to another person, or in a response directed right at you.
For all of your pretenses of analysis, you're not actually analyzing. You're posting attacks without even reading the very posts you're attacking, and you didn't even know how my role worked.
Are you even reading what I'm writing right now, or are you already in the process of typing out the next volley against this post, having not even read it?
The biggest problem aside from Vit is that Verity's role has zero utility until you know the roles of other people. On this site, mass claims don't generally happen before day 3. So the role is useless before day 3, pretty much. And then it's useless afterward.
I think the neighborizer thing is a dry well. Either make masons or find a more useful mechanic to experiment with would be my advice. Or just let everyone talk during night, just not vote.
1. If you can't give people fun roles, don't give people roles at all. The goal is to make a fun game.
2. As I said before, mafia has always been able to function with an inspector, doctor, etc. It works just fine.
Roles that cost more to do less make little sense. "Oh no, if we give people powers, they might use them! They might even keep using them night after night! We can't have that!"
If you don't want people using their powers, don't give them powers. Just make a vanilla game.
Verity is among the worst-designed roles I've ever seen. I would have preferred being a vanilla town.
Also, I get that you're in love with the flavor, and I've never read the books, but is turning into a dragon supposed to suck? Is it something you should avoid? Is turning into a dragon supposed to be the worst thing?
Or are you supposed to feel like a badass? "Holy *****, I'm a ******* dragon!"
The latter seems more fun to me.
And he was the source of both vit drains. Damn... I wondered.
I recall a talk by Mark Rosewater in which he discusses the lessons he learned over the years of Magic in terms of game design, and one of the things he learned was that just because a mechanic is interesting, it does not mean it will be fun. This game epitomized this. There were many mechanics, and a lot of them were interesting, but they weren't fun.
This game reminds me of Secret Agent Mafia in which there was a mechanic called "burner phones" which allowed the players to use money to create a neighbor chat. Except this was pointless, because neighboring is not a particularly useful ability, and is, at times, an outright liability due to the fact that, unlike with masons, you don't know the role of the other person. Neighboring is probably the most useless ability in mafia that isn't just an outright posting or voting restriction.
This game had that same design problem except cranked up to eleven because the ENTIRE GAME revolved around being a neighborizer, and on top of that, neighboring required making yourself easier to kill in order to use.
Not to mention so many of the roles just became weaker versions of already existing roles. Mafia functions fine when an inspector can just inspect, when a doctor can just freely protect a person. In this game, we had roles that were weaker that had to kill themselves to use their abilities. Why?
Honestly, Anak being town ****ed with my head. I'm now in a spiral of constantly reading someone one way and then the other. Not to mention I'm the only one who believes I'm town and who understands that my death will lose us the game, so I could have all the evidence in the world that someone's mafia, and it won't matter if the town's too busy trying to kill someone the mafia targeted.
How in the hell are there no votes? What have you guys been doing?
Vote Tubba. This seems the only path forward.
Why? Because the town might lose? It's LyLo! If any town misvotes, then the town loses! That's what LyLo means!
You know, Killjoy, you asked me this earlier, and I said Sloth posting terrible analysis was NAI, it neither meant that he was town nor mafia, either side could post bad analysis.
But, you know, call me crazy, because I was thinking about this as I was brushing my teeth - I have a hard time believing that mafia Killjoy would be so blatantly trying to square a circle like this in the open on the last day when he could just lay low and kill a person he knows is probably going to die anyway. I think Killjoy might well be town.
Which makes me wonder if it's really so simple as you, Sloth, and I - the three people who have a connection to the mafia vit stealer, two by target and one by claiming town version of the role - might really just all be town. Like, we might really have just been mech-cleared the entire time. Which would mean the mafia really was among Vaimes, Bur, Tubba, and BoomFrog the entire time.
That would make me kind of sad. Even more so if people are right and Bur is town, in which case it would have been Vaimes, Tubba, and BoomFrog as mafia.
I dunno if I believe that, but I think it would hurt if it would have been that simple the whole time.
Mostly just posting this for the reveal.
The town still has a chance of winning if (A) you and Sloth are both mafia, or (B) you're town and you decide to do a double lynch, somehow manage to get everyone to coordinate with you, and manage to lynch me and another person who actually is mafia.
The odds of you actually doing this are pretty much non-existent, but I refuse to gamethrow, so, take that for what you will.
Just go ahead and vote me so we can end this game.
Everyone who thinks I'm mafia needs to justify why I got attacked by the mafia. Twice. And also why you're townreading Killjoy who also is claiming the exact same thing (belatedly).
I know, it's almost like I'm town. Crazy.
Hopefully when I get back here I'll find we haven't lost the game. C'mon town. You can do it. I believe in you.
Post 4308:
Yet you still posted: (post 4328)
Post 4344:
Yet you still posted (Post 4398):
Post 4373:
Yet you still posted (Post 4444):
You're obviously not even reading my posts.
And it's one thing to miss stuff that happened previous days, it's another thing entirely to miss stuff that happened like the previous page, especially when your question has either been answered in a conversation to another person, or in a response directed right at you.
For all of your pretenses of analysis, you're not actually analyzing. You're posting attacks without even reading the very posts you're attacking, and you didn't even know how my role worked.
Are you even reading what I'm writing right now, or are you already in the process of typing out the next volley against this post, having not even read it?