So Tibalt is the Mary Sue, showing up gods as nothing but a foreign mortal mage that isn't even on their own turf
I guess it makes for an interesting story, and I'll accept that Kaldheim gods are less powerful and mortal compared to stronger pantheons. So I'll give it a flavor pass, this time. Seems in terms of power the Theros pantheon is the strongest as cosmic forces, then Amonkhet in the middle and Kaldheim the weakest and mortal, but still really interesting.
It'd be very strange if we didn't get the remaining three gods, especially given how Reidane was one of the earliest spoilers. As to how Cosima differs from Thassa, I imagine its the typical "Kaldheim gods are enlightened mortals, Theros gods are cosmic forces" way. Ironically Rán is more of an "elemental" figure than Poseidon.
Yeah, I agree. Run Ashore felt thematically too much like Sea Gods Scorn, so I am hoping Cosima is distinct from Thassa's petty and volatile nature, which I love of course, but would like to see a different take on a sea god.
I heard somewhere we won't see them all? Although all colors seem to have two, with Green and Black getting three. Wonder how Kiora would feel about this god, and how she'll be distinct from Thassa, who will always be my fave. <3
Interested in Phyrexia connection. I heard Kaya is hunting Vorinclex. If so, her being here is interesting after all, if she's not here to subvert gods or famous legendaries. Hope Tibalt isn't going to be a Mary Sue then.
Greg handled himself by tossing them back under the bus when he wrote about being forced into writing what they published. Only idiots and the ignorant blame him for that still.
ehhh... you can be forced to write something and still write it poorly. there were a lot of things going on there not just walking back the relationship.
The writing isn't what being talked on. It was the community blaming Greg for being the one to break up Chandra and Nissa and saying Chandra being into woman was a phase when it wasn't his choice.
Except the writing is being discussed.
No where was the quality of the writing brought up in what I replied to Orzohvplaneswalker about.
Instead we got "decidedly straight" and "always been attracted to dudes, maaaaan" and "totally not for dat homo shyte y'know?" give me a freaking break.
Response to my latest novel, War of the Spark: Forsaken, has been understandably negative, particularly as a result of how the character of Chandra Nalaar was depicted in the book. My response is a bit late in coming, but here it is:
After reading the materials that preceded my work on Magic: The Gathering, I was particularly intrigued by the burgeoning relationship between Chandra and Nissa. I felt that it should culminate in the War of the Spark books. In lieu of bringing them together, as it was not a relationship that WotC planned to pursue,my goal was to write something that honored Chandra's feelings for Nissa and Nissa's feelings for Chandra, something that would give closure to their relationship in a sad but satisfying and understandable way. I believe that if readers had seen my original ideas for the chapter in question, they might have gotten a better sense of what I was trying to accomplish. They might have liked it better. Or maybe they wouldn't have. In any case, through the mutual creative/editorial process with WotC and Del Rey, we ended up with the final product that was published in Forsaken, which clearly didn't meet anyone's expectations or delivers on my intentions. And for that, I am truly sorry.
He had a different idea for how to break them up, Wizard and/or Del Rey (but I'm betting wizards) had him change it to something. Was his idea better, who know, but its clear the manner they broke up Chandra and Nissa seems too be on the wizards (or less likely but possible Del Ray) side of things. And could he be lying? Sure but not a single peep from wizard contracting him or trying to silence him.
The choice itself was awful and no quality of writing could change that they queer baited with Chandra.
His writing ruined a lot more than just the Chandra/Nissa relationship, which I maintain is his fault in my opinion, but don't want to the thread to derail much more.
Cosmo Serpent plz! Can't wait for it to be a god too.
My only nitpick here is that I wish the company acknowledged the corporate decision in retconning and downplaying Chandra and Nissa's relationship, not Weisman's, as they kinda threw him under the bus by not fully acknowledging their role in the controversy and that they had indeed made a mistake.
Greg handled himself by tossing them back under the bus when he wrote about being forced into writing what they published. Only idiots and the ignorant blame him for that still.
ehhh... you can be forced to write something and still write it poorly. there were a lot of things going on there not just walking back the relationship.
The writing isn't what being talked on. It was the community blaming Greg for being the one to break up Chandra and Nissa and saying Chandra being into woman was a phase when it wasn't his choice.
Except the writing is being discussed. It was horrible. Read the reviews. The first book was torn apart just as much. It just reached a new fever pitch by the time the second came around and added even more insult to injury.
Greg literally broke them up in the most heinous, callous, juvenile way possible with his awful writing. The first sentence of the first novel made me cringe. A good author could accomplish the plot point in a way that felt satisfying, even reasonable. It could have been a moment of character development for them. Maturity or obligation to causes greater than their own romance. The possibilities were endless to make it palatable. Instead we got "decidedly straight" and "always been attracted to dudes, maaaaan" and "totally not for dat homo shyte y'know?" give me a freaking break.
Wow, MtG took a stand of integrity on this since Weisman and Forsaken (ironic name).
I’m impressed. Very good. Perhaps there’s hope yet for Vorthos with the return of web fiction and support of diverse characters. Just need the Theros novel and I’m in.
Before anyone gets on their soapbox, I was critical of PW power levels in general and not Kaya specifically. Exacerbated by the burning of my Vorthos card when the Theros lore was canceled.
Here's the Theros story: There is a vaguely warm world that you won't get to see, because Planeswalkers arrive to overshadow all its characters, including its gods, so it ends up being a snowy backdrop for how Elspeth is a better mage than any others, because she has a Spark. You know, that thing that confers no inherent advantage other than to travel, but here she is, breaking the metaphysical rules again, because Planeswalkers. After you're convinced she matters more than Theros, we'll be on to Tarkir/Ikoria.
It won't be a snowy backdrop if it's a warm world. Glad you got the gist of it though.
Which is what exactly?
I could be wrong but I don't think @Mullerornis's response was given in support of your overall argument.
Why the negativity mate? You have a new Thassa, another Jace, Arixmethes, several new sea monsters, some of whom are legendary.
Why not celebrate Kaya?
Oh I love the game, many amazing cards in the last few years, this year included - it's the lore I think is in serious need of attention, with the first promising step being the return of weekly story articles written by the in-house creative team. I think the community in general is still reeling from Nic Kelman, War of the Spark, the idea that original Ravnica characters were killed off or displaced in favor of Planeswalkers (and the grave overall errors that entire series introduced to the lore) and Kaya breaking fundamental planeswalking rules just to shove Rat into the story (I don't find Jiang and his dog to be a break, for the record - but Kaya, I didn't like). My issue is a Vorthos lore concern, not one with the game itself. Theros Beyond Death, the new Jace card, Arixmethes and Sea monsters are all the reason I love this game (don't forget Brinelin) but those are the cards, I think a lot of people in the Kaldheim Rumor Mill thread are showing apprehension about Kaya showing up just to kill off some newly introduced character on our first visit to this plane, which is lame if true, because I personally find Legends to be part of a plane's identity, and I am not fond of them dying in place of Planeswalkers all the time, like Avacyn for example. They shouldn't be killed just to make a PW look like a badass. That said I am glad they left Heliod. Killing him would have ruined Theros. His meddling and the tension he brings is amusing.
Characters need to be able to die. I only regret that War of the Spark didn't kill more known characters. High stakes in storytelling is important, where death, sacrifice and loss means something.
Kaya is a ghost assassin. That's her schtick. If she killed off characters that were known and beloved the critics would then express umbrage over that.
As strange of a concept as it may seem, other people have their own things that they love about the game.
It was a treat during our return to Theros to read every Tiro rush of excitement for the things that everyone knows Tiro loves.
We're not asking for much. Just a little reciprocity would be nice.
It's perfectly ok to critique story-telling in a measured, but authentic way; examining what one liked and didn't like so much in a forum of discussion and debate.
But we literally have next to zero info regarding Kaldheim's story, so we really don't know how much of Forsaken's mishaps will still hold true, and regardless, none of these concerns were adequately expressed in the previous tirade on this particular thread.
It just read as a de-legitimation of Kaya.
Not so much Kaya, but Planeswalkers overall. I understand they are the face of the brand, even their main characters, but I don't appreciate them being OP, or Legendary Creatures that are part of the identity of a plane always suffering the stakes of a situation instead. I'm not calling for the story to arbitrarily kill off PWs in order to have stakes, like the precedent set by GOT. Just to cast them more as the mortal mage explorers that they are, with limitations and risk. When an entire dimension worships a Legendary Creature, and PWs walk in to make them look like pushovers on their own turf, it really defeats the purpose of the mending, or anything having stakes or a purpose.
Here's the Theros story: There is a vaguely warm world that you won't get to see, because Planeswalkers arrive to overshadow all its characters, including its gods, so it ends up being a snowy backdrop for how Elspeth is a better mage than any others, because she has a Spark. You know, that thing that confers no inherent advantage other than to travel, but here she is, breaking the metaphysical rules again, because Planeswalkers. After you're convinced she matters more than Theros, we'll be on to Tarkir/Ikoria.
It won't be a snowy backdrop if it's a warm world. Glad you got the gist of it though.
Which is what exactly?
I could be wrong but I don't think @Mullerornis's response was given in support of your overall argument.
Why the negativity mate? You have a new Thassa, another Jace, Arixmethes, several new sea monsters, some of whom are legendary.
Why not celebrate Kaya?
Oh I love the game, many amazing cards in the last few years, this year included - it's the lore I think is in serious need of attention, with the first promising step being the return of weekly story articles written by the in-house creative team. I think the community in general is still reeling from Nic Kelman, War of the Spark, the idea that original Ravnica characters were killed off or displaced in favor of Planeswalkers (and the grave overall errors that entire series introduced to the lore) and Kaya breaking fundamental planeswalking rules just to shove Rat into the story (I don't find Jiang and his dog to be a break, for the record - but Kaya, I didn't like). My issue is a Vorthos lore concern, not one with the game itself. Theros Beyond Death, the new Jace card, Arixmethes and Sea monsters are all the reason I love this game (don't forget Brinelin) but those are the cards, I think a lot of people in the Kaldheim Rumor Mill thread are showing apprehension about Kaya showing up just to kill off some newly introduced character on our first visit to this plane, which is lame if true, because I personally find Legends to be part of a plane's identity, and I am not fond of them dying in place of Planeswalkers all the time, like Avacyn for example. They shouldn't be killed just to make a PW look like a badass. That said I am glad they left Heliod. Killing him would have ruined Theros. His meddling and the tension he brings is amusing.
Here's the Theros story: There is a vaguely warm world that you won't get to see, because Planeswalkers arrive to overshadow all its characters, including its gods, so it ends up being a snowy backdrop for how Elspeth is a better mage than any others, because she has a Spark. You know, that thing that confers no inherent advantage other than to travel, but here she is, breaking the metaphysical rules again, because Planeswalkers. After you're convinced she matters more than Theros, we'll be on to Tarkir/Ikoria.
It won't be a snowy backdrop if it's a warm world. Glad you got the gist of it though.
Here's the Kaldheim story: There is a cold world that you won't get to see, because Planeswalkers arrive to overshadow all its characters, including its gods, so it ends up being a snowy backdrop for how Kaya is a better mage than any others, because she has a Spark. You know, that thing that confers no inherent advantage other than to travel, but here she is, breaking the metaphysical rules again, because Planeswalkers. After you're convinced she matters more than Kaldheim, we'll be on to Strixhaven.
I guess it makes for an interesting story, and I'll accept that Kaldheim gods are less powerful and mortal compared to stronger pantheons. So I'll give it a flavor pass, this time. Seems in terms of power the Theros pantheon is the strongest as cosmic forces, then Amonkhet in the middle and Kaldheim the weakest and mortal, but still really interesting.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Interested in Phyrexia connection. I heard Kaya is hunting Vorinclex. If so, her being here is interesting after all, if she's not here to subvert gods or famous legendaries. Hope Tibalt isn't going to be a Mary Sue then.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Cosmo Serpent plz! Can't wait for it to be a god too.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Greg literally broke them up in the most heinous, callous, juvenile way possible with his awful writing. The first sentence of the first novel made me cringe. A good author could accomplish the plot point in a way that felt satisfying, even reasonable. It could have been a moment of character development for them. Maturity or obligation to causes greater than their own romance. The possibilities were endless to make it palatable. Instead we got "decidedly straight" and "always been attracted to dudes, maaaaan" and "totally not for dat homo shyte y'know?" give me a freaking break.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I’m impressed. Very good. Perhaps there’s hope yet for Vorthos with the return of web fiction and support of diverse characters. Just need the Theros novel and I’m in.
Before anyone gets on their soapbox, I was critical of PW power levels in general and not Kaya specifically. Exacerbated by the burning of my Vorthos card when the Theros lore was canceled.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Thrasios (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||