I do expect folks to double down on their stance after testing these cards, and not because they are actually any good, but because it is easy for them to feel they were right when they have the ability to confirm their own thoughts without disproving the naysayers.
Good lord, what an awful take. I mean, the exact same thing could be said about the MDFC haters ...but nobody's making that argument because it's a complete garbage take.
But whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.
I will say this, I think the discussion on MDFC's is probably one of the best discussions this Cube forum has ever seen. I disagree with the assessment of these cards when it comes to their overall weight for average powered cubes. But this discussion has elevated itself to a really important idea of the design of Cube itself. Readers have been given a lot to chew on, and I believe that this discussion on MDFC's can really help new Cube designers think more critically about the cards they inject into their cubes.
You are right, my sentiment also applies to nay-sayers like myself who are actively avoiding the chance to expose themselves to experience which might disprove their stance on MDFC's. But the burden of proof really falls to those who believe in these cards, which is why I omitted naysayers (whos arguments can kind of be summed up to nothing more than circular logic). The catch 22 is that, people who believe in these cards have presented very valid claims as to why MDFD's like these have a legitimate claim for being cube worthy and I think those claims are easier to double down on.
I really look forward to seeing how these cards work out for people, but pretty much the only thing that is going to sway me at this point - is hearing a naysayer recant after reluctantly giving these cards a shot. I don't think I will weigh the experience of people who believe in these cards, all that heavily though.
From a game design standpoint, these cards are insane to me. I commend WOTC for this kind of mechanic, the designer in me loves them. I don't think there is anything wrong with people putting these cards into their cubes, in fact I think some cubes are great homes for these cards. As it pertains to my powered cube, I think these cards missed the bar, and I think they had a little more wiggle room for WOTC to push them.
EDIT
I also didn't mean for my hot take to come off as *****ty as it did, I apologize.
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I do expect folks to double down on their stance after testing these cards, and not because they are actually any good, but because it is easy for them to feel they were right when they have the ability to confirm their own thoughts without disproving the naysayers.
Yikes. That's a take.
I mean, to think that confirmation bias isn't going to root itself in such a polarized discussion... is kind of naive.
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I don’t think the power level of these is something that makes searching for a land by caveat, impressive. Cute, but not impressive.
I fully expect people to recant their praise for these cards to some extent, but if instead they double down - then good on them I guess.
These are all, a pretty easy pass for me. None of them have enough power for me to consider the marginal gains as anything more than slight deck building boons that offer virtually no statistical leverage.
With all due respect, not only do I completely disagree, but it sounds like you just stuck a bunch of words together in an attempt to make your reasoning sound more solid. I know contextually what you're trying to say, but I guarantee you those words don't mean what you think they mean in that particular order lol
I mean, my mother is an English Major. I think I articulated that exactly as intended and I think it means exactly what it says...
But anyways, I think this has been a good discussion on MDFC’s. I also believe this conversation has run its course. All it is now, is rehashing of the same talking points. Fires has really illustrated the heart of the issue here, and there really isn’t much more to be had.
I do expect folks to double down on their stance after testing these cards, and not because they are actually any good, but because it is easy for them to feel they were right when they have the ability to confirm their own thoughts without disproving the naysayers.
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I don’t think the power level of these is something that makes searching for a land by caveat, impressive. Cute, but not impressive.
I fully expect people to recant their praise for these cards to some extent, but if instead they double down - then good on them I guess.
These are all, a pretty easy pass for me. None of them have enough power for me to consider the marginal gains as anything more than slight deck building boons that offer virtually no statistical leverage.
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I don't think that is a strong argument for running marginal cards, or cards below a power threshold. The versaility in being a spell or a land is only worth as much as side A or B relative to a power threshold. You related it to cards like Preordain and Ponder earlier, which seems kind of silly. It isn't even remotely the same statistical leverage. Preordain gives you card selection as it pertains to cards that are otherwise centered around a similar power threshold... a lot of these MDFC, are at best along the power threshold but most often below it.
Sure, there is a statistical advantage of having a single card be either a spell or a land - but the spell side and the land side are both substandard for most of the context used for card evaluation in these open discussions.
As it pertains to this card, I think clone effects are valuable, but most of the time that is because they can target creatures your opponent have. Perhaps the land side is enough to offset that drawback, but I do not personally feel any draw to that kind of limitation at the cost of something like Clever Impersonator which has stronger versatility overall.
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I will say this, I think the discussion on MDFC's is probably one of the best discussions this Cube forum has ever seen. I disagree with the assessment of these cards when it comes to their overall weight for average powered cubes. But this discussion has elevated itself to a really important idea of the design of Cube itself. Readers have been given a lot to chew on, and I believe that this discussion on MDFC's can really help new Cube designers think more critically about the cards they inject into their cubes.
You are right, my sentiment also applies to nay-sayers like myself who are actively avoiding the chance to expose themselves to experience which might disprove their stance on MDFC's. But the burden of proof really falls to those who believe in these cards, which is why I omitted naysayers (whos arguments can kind of be summed up to nothing more than circular logic). The catch 22 is that, people who believe in these cards have presented very valid claims as to why MDFD's like these have a legitimate claim for being cube worthy and I think those claims are easier to double down on.
I really look forward to seeing how these cards work out for people, but pretty much the only thing that is going to sway me at this point - is hearing a naysayer recant after reluctantly giving these cards a shot. I don't think I will weigh the experience of people who believe in these cards, all that heavily though.
From a game design standpoint, these cards are insane to me. I commend WOTC for this kind of mechanic, the designer in me loves them. I don't think there is anything wrong with people putting these cards into their cubes, in fact I think some cubes are great homes for these cards. As it pertains to my powered cube, I think these cards missed the bar, and I think they had a little more wiggle room for WOTC to push them.
EDIT
I also didn't mean for my hot take to come off as *****ty as it did, I apologize.
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I mean, to think that confirmation bias isn't going to root itself in such a polarized discussion... is kind of naive.
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I mean, my mother is an English Major. I think I articulated that exactly as intended and I think it means exactly what it says...
But anyways, I think this has been a good discussion on MDFC’s. I also believe this conversation has run its course. All it is now, is rehashing of the same talking points. Fires has really illustrated the heart of the issue here, and there really isn’t much more to be had.
I do expect folks to double down on their stance after testing these cards, and not because they are actually any good, but because it is easy for them to feel they were right when they have the ability to confirm their own thoughts without disproving the naysayers.
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I fully expect people to recant their praise for these cards to some extent, but if instead they double down - then good on them I guess.
These are all, a pretty easy pass for me. None of them have enough power for me to consider the marginal gains as anything more than slight deck building boons that offer virtually no statistical leverage.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
Sure, there is a statistical advantage of having a single card be either a spell or a land - but the spell side and the land side are both substandard for most of the context used for card evaluation in these open discussions.
As it pertains to this card, I think clone effects are valuable, but most of the time that is because they can target creatures your opponent have. Perhaps the land side is enough to offset that drawback, but I do not personally feel any draw to that kind of limitation at the cost of something like Clever Impersonator which has stronger versatility overall.
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